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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 10:23 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  They are recruiting a top five player and it's down to them and Kentucky. The extension may just help in the decision.
That would be huge in terms of them taking a next step as a program.
01-02-2018 10:36 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 10:36 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 10:23 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  They are recruiting a top five player and it's down to them and Kentucky. The extension may just help in the decision.
That would be huge in terms of them taking a next step as a program.

Zion isn't down to two, but Clemson is definitely in the mix as are Carolina, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, and South Carolina. He's top 3 in 2018 and will be a big get for someone regardless if it's Clemson, Kentucky, or someone else.
01-02-2018 12:30 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 12:30 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 10:36 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 10:23 AM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  They are recruiting a top five player and it's down to them and Kentucky. The extension may just help in the decision.
That would be huge in terms of them taking a next step as a program.

Zion isn't down to two, but Clemson is definitely in the mix as are Carolina, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, and South Carolina. He's top 3 in 2018 and will be a big get for someone regardless if it's Clemson, Kentucky, or someone else.

My point was is Clemson doesn't generally get those types. All the other teams you mentioned do, except SC. It's a bigger get for them comparably.
01-02-2018 12:49 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Face-off
https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/1/2/1684...williamson


Further recent details. And according to them it IS, Clemson and Kentucky. But of course, things can change.

Duke with 3 of the top 8 in 20178, THAT is crazy!
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 12:54 PM by Seahawkhoops.)
01-02-2018 12:53 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 12:53 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/1/2/1684...williamson


Further recent details. And according to them it IS, Clemson and Kentucky. But of course, things can change.

Duke with 3 of the top 8 in 20178, THAT is crazy!

Nowhere in that link does it say that he's down to two teams. Crystalball predictions has both UK and Clemson at 41%, so it's true that they're considered the favorites, but he hasn't ruled out the others. There is a difference between being a favorite and a decision being down to two teams.

Purnell put together some really good recruiting classes at Clemson. I'm pretty sure Milton Jennings was a 5* as well; I know he was McD AA, but Jennings wasn't the same level as Zion. Z would certainly be a good get for Brownell.

I'm not impressed with recruiting classes as much anymore. 1-and-done makes a ton of sense for the NBA, but it's not good for CBB. I much prefer the model of Villanova to Duke or UK. Recruit in the 20-40 range to find kids that will be around 3-4 years. They don't have the tantalizing talent to be OAD, but with coaching and experience, they form a better team. It's a crapshoot to be able to turnover OAD talent on a roster each year and mesh it with the experienced players, and then win titles.
01-02-2018 01:18 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 01:18 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 12:53 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/1/2/1684...williamson


Further recent details. And according to them it IS, Clemson and Kentucky. But of course, things can change.

Duke with 3 of the top 8 in 20178, THAT is crazy!

Nowhere in that link does it say that he's down to two teams. Crystalball predictions has both UK and Clemson at 41%, so it's true that they're considered the favorites, but he hasn't ruled out the others. There is a difference between being a favorite and a decision being down to two teams.

Purnell put together some really good recruiting classes at Clemson. I'm pretty sure Milton Jennings was a 5* as well; I know he was McD AA, but Jennings wasn't the same level as Zion. Z would certainly be a good get for Brownell.

I'm not impressed with recruiting classes as much anymore. 1-and-done makes a ton of sense for the NBA, but it's not good for CBB. I much prefer the model of Villanova to Duke or UK. Recruit in the 20-40 range to find kids that will be around 3-4 years. They don't have the tantalizing talent to be OAD, but with coaching and experience, they form a better team. It's a crapshoot to be able to turnover OAD talent on a roster each year and mesh it with the experienced players, and then win titles.
I agree with you in terms of the 1 and dones. That said, 3 of the top 8 IS impressive and i know for a fact Carolina guys would be beating their chests if it was their class.
I don't really care much for Duke, but as a basketball guy, that class is pretty ridiculous IMO. Imagine if Bagley decided to stay( i know not likely but....)
01-02-2018 01:44 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 01:44 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 01:18 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 12:53 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  https://www.aseaofblue.com/2018/1/2/1684...williamson


Further recent details. And according to them it IS, Clemson and Kentucky. But of course, things can change.

Duke with 3 of the top 8 in 20178, THAT is crazy!

Nowhere in that link does it say that he's down to two teams. Crystalball predictions has both UK and Clemson at 41%, so it's true that they're considered the favorites, but he hasn't ruled out the others. There is a difference between being a favorite and a decision being down to two teams.

Purnell put together some really good recruiting classes at Clemson. I'm pretty sure Milton Jennings was a 5* as well; I know he was McD AA, but Jennings wasn't the same level as Zion. Z would certainly be a good get for Brownell.

I'm not impressed with recruiting classes as much anymore. 1-and-done makes a ton of sense for the NBA, but it's not good for CBB. I much prefer the model of Villanova to Duke or UK. Recruit in the 20-40 range to find kids that will be around 3-4 years. They don't have the tantalizing talent to be OAD, but with coaching and experience, they form a better team. It's a crapshoot to be able to turnover OAD talent on a roster each year and mesh it with the experienced players, and then win titles.
I agree with you in terms of the 1 and dones. That said, 3 of the top 8 IS impressive and i know for a fact Carolina guys would be beating their chests if it was their class.
I don't really care much for Duke, but as a basketball guy, that class is pretty ridiculous IMO. Imagine if Bagley decided to stay( i know not likely but....)

I'm not saying Duke fans shouldn't be excited about a great class, although somehow Kansas has the top class in 2018. My point is that championships are more exciting than OAD recruiting classes. As a college fan, there is something special about watching a team grow and mature over the course of 3-4 years. At Duke, for example, Quinn Cook is more of a fan favorite than Jayson Tatum. There is a reason for that and I think it is obvious.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 02:08 PM by bricksnivy.)
01-02-2018 02:07 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Face-off
I understand that when it comes to recruiting, anything can change. But Sea of Blue, a Kentucky recruiting news source, says Clemson is now in the lead for Zion. With Kentucky right behind. This due to Kentucky having such a loaded roster, that he would probably have to share a lot of minutes. I also know, being a Spartanburg native, Clemson is closer to home. And he has a desire to be close to home. And, if Brownell figures in the decision, seeing that Clemson plans to keep him could be a deciding factor. The only school I see sneaking in an stealing him at the last minute would be Duke. He just doesn't seem to be clicking with UNC. But, you never know.
01-02-2018 02:19 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 02:19 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  I understand that when it comes to recruiting, anything can change. But Sea of Blue, a Kentucky recruiting news source, says Clemson is now in the lead for Zion. With Kentucky right behind. This due to Kentucky having such a loaded roster, that he would probably have to share a lot of minutes. I also know, being a Spartanburg native, Clemson is closer to home. And he has a desire to be close to home. And, if Brownell figures in the decision, seeing that Clemson plans to keep him could be a deciding factor. The only school I see sneaking in an stealing him at the last minute would be Duke. He just doesn't seem to be clicking with UNC. But, you never know.
I'd be shocked if he went to Duke, as Duke's roster will be loaded as well.
01-02-2018 02:20 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Face-off
Sea of Blue is a fan site for UK. I'm not putting much weight into their predictions. I have no idea where he'll go; I haven't heard anything from HIM that leads me to believe he's leaning toward any school other than the draw of playing at "home".

FWIW, Zion's dad went to Clemson and he wants him to go there as well. However, there are some that say it's between Carolina and Clemson but that the kid is favoring Carolina. Carolina has done really well in S. Carolina. The past two South Carolina Mr. Basketball recipients are at Carolina, and things worked out pretty well Raymond Felton and Brice Johson too. This is similar to an elite football recruit from NC choosing between UNC/NCSU and Clemson. The opportunity to play for championships is hard to turn down, and the last Mr. Basketball recipient that chose Clemson didn't get drafted.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 02:42 PM by bricksnivy.)
01-02-2018 02:24 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 02:24 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Sea of Blue is a fan site for UK. I'm not putting much weight into their predictions. I have no idea where he'll go; I haven't heard anything from HIM that leads me to believe he's leaning toward any school other than the draw of playing at "home".

FWIW, Zion's dad went to Clemson and he wants him to go there as well. However, there are some that say it's between Carolina and Clemson but that the kid is favoring Carolina. Carolina has done really well in S. Carolina. The past two South Carolina Mr. Basketball recipients are at Carolina, and things worked out pretty well Raymond Felton and Brice Johson too. This is similar to an elite football recruit from NC choosing between UNC/NCSU and Clemson. The opportunity to play for championships is hard to turn down, and the last Mr. Basketball recipient that chose Clemson didn't get drafted.

It's not just that link, if you look at all the articles within the last week(there are plenty), they all reference it to be between KY and Clemson. I know the tarheel blue glasses are sometimes hard to see through, but i'd be willing to bet you he doesn't go there. All the guys you mentioned above took time to develop. We both know barring a major injury, he's one and done.
Further, what's to say if Clemson is in the ACC mix this year add this kid next they "wouldn't be in the mix for a championship"? As a UNC fan you sure are writing others off rather easily. Good thing Wofford isn't in the ACC
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 03:05 PM by Seahawkhoops.)
01-02-2018 03:03 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 03:03 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 02:24 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Sea of Blue is a fan site for UK. I'm not putting much weight into their predictions. I have no idea where he'll go; I haven't heard anything from HIM that leads me to believe he's leaning toward any school other than the draw of playing at "home".

FWIW, Zion's dad went to Clemson and he wants him to go there as well. However, there are some that say it's between Carolina and Clemson but that the kid is favoring Carolina. Carolina has done really well in S. Carolina. The past two South Carolina Mr. Basketball recipients are at Carolina, and things worked out pretty well Raymond Felton and Brice Johson too. This is similar to an elite football recruit from NC choosing between UNC/NCSU and Clemson. The opportunity to play for championships is hard to turn down, and the last Mr. Basketball recipient that chose Clemson didn't get drafted.

It's not just that link, if you look at all the articles within the last week(there are plenty), they all reference it to be between KY and Clemson. I know the tarheel blue glasses are sometimes hard to see through, but i'd be willing to bet you he doesn't go there. All the guys you mentioned above took time to develop. We both know barring a major injury, he's one and done.

If you would be so kind, link two of the articles that you're referencing.

Universally, players want to go to the NBA. It's fair to say that is their main goal as they make a college decision. In terms of exposure, which university gives Zion the best opportunity? I'd argue Raymond didn't take time to develop, but the game has changed in the last 12 years, and Zion is a different player than those guys, but that still doesn't seem to be an advantage for Clemson.

Carolina is going to be fine without Zion. They're pretty loaded next year, but they're missing a PF the caliber of ZW. He'd be a great addition, but I don't care where he chooses to play.
01-02-2018 03:14 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Face-off
A sample of Clemson players drafted.
Tree Rollins
Stan Rome
Larry Nance
Mitchell Wiggins
Vince Hamilton
Glen McCants
Horace Grant
Elden Campbell
Dale Davis
Sharone Wright
Trevor Booker
K. J. McDaniels
Jaron Blossomgame

Mr. Basketball is overrated. And not all NBA players chose the Kentuckys and Dukes of the college world.
And I also don't know where he may go for sure. But more sources are leaning towards Clemson. You can look it up if you want. I don't have the energy to keep listing sources for you. And yes, these predictions are, in most cases, a crap shoot. No one can read a teenager's mind.
01-02-2018 03:19 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Face-off
https://kentucky.247sports.com/Bolt/Zion...-112833033

http://www.kentucky.com/sports/college/k...18769.html

One references both one references Clemson leading. Just google Zion Williamson, there is a ton of articles in the last week
01-02-2018 03:19 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Face-off
That's hilarious. I realize that UK has a lot of fans and that subsequently there are a lot of UK basketball blogs, but none of those articles do more than quote Crystal Ball predictions, which I already referenced. Three of the pros that 33 mentioned played college basketball since the turn of the century...I don't think mentioning Tree Rollins carried the weight you intended. I asked for examples because there isn't anything current about Zion's decision on the interwebs. Yes, there are plenty of bloggers and message board opinions, but nothing from Zion or his family to support that it's down to two. And, as you said, these predictions are a crap shoot, which is my point in it's entirety. In his interview they asked if he was ready to make a decision in January and he said, "if it's right, I'll do it. If not, I'll have to push it back."
01-02-2018 03:35 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 03:19 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  A sample of Clemson players drafted.
Trevor Booker - Booker received offers from Wofford, William & Mary, and South Carolina.
K. J. McDaniels - McDaniels had offers from Missouri, Murray State and South Alabama.
Jaron Blossomgame - Blossomgame chose Clemson over VCU, Wichita State, Tennessee Tech and Gardner-Webb.


I'm not throwing shade at Clemson. I already mentioned Milton Jennings as a big-time player that they landed in the recent past, and his name is more relevant than anyone else you mentioned in the past 20 years because the others that made it to the NBA were three star guys without blue blood offers. Some guys are wired differently, but most high-profile athletes choose colleges where they think their game will be showcased for the NBA and receive national exposure. Playing on the biggest stage is appealing and like it or not, his chances of playing in a championship game at Clemson are pretty slim. The same logic works against Carolina in football. There is a reason Carolina continues to lose players to Clemson, FSU, and UGA in football, and there is a reason that successful CBB players from S. Carolina leave the state. That doesn't say anything specifically about Zion, or offer a prediction, but I doubt there are many Clemson fans confident he's signing with Brownell.

(01-02-2018 03:19 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Mr. Basketball is overrated.

Sure it is.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 04:01 PM by bricksnivy.)
01-02-2018 03:57 PM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Face-off
Bricks- I'll bet you if you are so sure, I'll even give you odds since everyone else seems to think it's between 2 except you. Zion goes to anywhere but UNC, You have the Duke logo as your pict for a week. If he goes to UNC I'll sport the tarhole logo for 2.
(This post was last modified: 01-02-2018 04:03 PM by Seahawkhoops.)
01-02-2018 04:03 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 03:57 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(01-02-2018 03:19 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  A sample of Clemson players drafted.
Trevor Booker - Booker received offers from Wofford, William & Mary, and South Carolina.
K. J. McDaniels - McDaniels had offers from Missouri, Murray State and South Alabama.
Jaron Blossomgame - Blossomgame chose Clemson over VCU, Wichita State, Tennessee Tech and Gardner-Webb.


I'm not throwing shade at Clemson. I already mentioned Milton Jennings as a big-time player that they landed in the recent past, and his name is more relevant than anyone else you mentioned in the past 20 years because the others that made it to the NBA were three star guys without blue blood offers. Some guys are wired differently, but most high-profile athletes choose colleges where they think their game will be showcased for the NBA and receive national exposure. Playing on the biggest stage is appealing and like it or not, his chances of playing in a championship game at Clemson are pretty slim. The same logic works against Carolina in football. There is a reason Carolina continues to lose players to Clemson, FSU, and UGA in football, and there is a reason that successful CBB players from S. Carolina leave the state. That doesn't say anything specifically about Zion, or offer a prediction, but I doubt there are many Clemson fans confident he's signing with Brownell.

(01-02-2018 03:19 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  Mr. Basketball is overrated.

Sure it is.

Just like the Heisman.
01-02-2018 04:14 PM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Face-off
(01-02-2018 04:03 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Bricks- I'll bet you if you are so sure, I'll even give you odds since everyone else seems to think it's between 2 except you. Zion goes to anywhere but UNC, You have the Duke logo as your pict for a week. If he goes to UNC I'll sport the tarhole logo for 2.

If you can document where I've predicted that he would choose Carolina in this thread, I'll consider a bet.
01-02-2018 04:16 PM
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SEA33HAWK Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Face-off
You know, the topic was Brownell's extension reasons why. And I still stick to the claim that it could be a big factor in getting Zion.
01-02-2018 04:20 PM
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