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We All Knew It Was Coming
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T-Dog Offline
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
I want nothing to do with Liberty as long as they have Ian McCaw as their AD.
12-23-2017 01:46 PM
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GEAGLESJAG Offline
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Post: #62
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 12:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wow, this is a war against all those groups? Hard stop - life’s too short to make everything political.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Easy for you to say, if you aren't being discriminated against. And your community isn't paying millions per year to have discrimination against you be furthered.

Maybe if Liberty didn't make everything political and attacking on everyone else, they wouldn't be such a lightening rod. Everything they do is political. Affirm them and affirm their political agenda.

I repeat my question....for the millions of dollars each year that LGBT people, non-Christians, the foreign born, etc. spend to subsidize your program.....what do THEY get in return for that non-voluntary payment? At Georgia Southern and Troy, they get to see that money used to affirm even MORE discrimination against them.
Boy what a "victim complex" you have. You need a team of psychiatrists not a football team.
12-23-2017 02:26 PM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #63
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 12:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wow, this is a war against all those groups? Hard stop - life’s too short to make everything political.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Easy for you to say, if you aren't being discriminated against. And your community isn't paying millions per year to have discrimination against you be furthered.

Maybe if Liberty didn't make everything political and attacking on everyone else, they wouldn't be such a lightening rod. Everything they do is political. Affirm them and affirm their political agenda.

I repeat my question....for the millions of dollars each year that LGBT people, non-Christians, the foreign born, etc. spend to subsidize your program.....what do THEY get in return for that non-voluntary payment? At Georgia Southern and Troy, they get to see that money used to affirm even MORE discrimination against them.

So Georgia Southern and Troy are affirming discrimination?

Did you really just go there???
12-23-2017 03:15 PM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #64
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 01:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:59 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:11 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.

You're right!!! We should force them into believing something different then what they believe! They don't have the freedom to make any decisions that express their beliefs. How dare they make a political stand that's faith based. They're committing the ultimate political correctness sin, and since someone has made us the moral authority, we should do everything in our power to put down, bully, protest, and intimidate these people till they become tolerant of what I say they should be tolerant of. It's time we take control and not allow ANY of these opposing beliefs in our society!!!

Oh, and Merry Christmas! :)

There's a HUGE difference between someone having offensive beliefs like "Gays and Jews shouldn't have equal access to employment and scholarship opportunities" and having taxpayer funded programs helping programs that further that agenda.

How much does your football program take from the taxpayers and students? How many scholarships have you ever provided to LGBT people from that pool of money? How many coaching jobs have been paid from that?

I do truly hate Liberty but for different reasons than most. I'm a born again Christian. I believe Jesus was the son of God and I try my best to live my life according to His example though I often fail. I only share that about myself because I think it makes my perspective more transparent.

I hate Liberty because I believe their hypocrisy paints a picture of christianity that's a false one and leads people away from the truth. The most recent glaring example of this is their love affair with Donald Trump. Liberty is Christian in name only. They're a republican university, not a Christian one.

So, now that you know my general feelings towards Liberty, you can see that I share some of your disdain for the "school" albeit for different reasons.

Now that my bias is shown in full disclosure above, as for the bolded part in your post, I would simply ask you how any of us could ever possibly answer that? There is no sexuality questionnaire filled out before receiving an athletic scholarship. If there were, I'm positive we would hear your outrage over that as well.

For all I know, half of the Coastal football team is gay. And I don't care. As long as they perform on the field and stay out of trouble, which is what they were given a scholarship to do, then as an alumnus and donor, I am happy.

I understand your perspective. But I don't think you really have looked at the numbers.

I argue that the fact that your school has never had an OPENLY gay recipient of any athletic scholarship at your school, or has never had an openly LGBT coach cannot be discounted as mere coincidence. The fact that NONE of our schools have is strong evidence of extreme structural discrimination. How many football scholarships have our institutions collectively offered? 50,000? Its simply not credible to argue that there isn't massive discrimination if exactly zero of those scholarships, virtually all of which are subsidized by the students and/or the taxpayers through non-voluntary payments, is simply coincidental. In the entire history of FBS, there has been exactly one player in the history of the entire sport that has played so much as one friggin' down as an openly LGBT player.

We know the biggest reason why... Muscular "Christianity". To get playing time in many places, you have to put up with overt preaching from anti-LGBT groups. Being part of the team is being part of the FCA in many places. Want personal time with the coach? You can meet with him on Wednesday night. Want to be a coach in HS? Better get recommended by your FCA colleagues. If you aren't at least open to being a "Muscular Christian", you find out that you're not welcome soon enough. And you just don't play football.

And even if a Gay player makes it to college, how will he fare? Will his team have the toxic influence of the FCA (or AIA) making overt testimonial calls part of being a team player? Will they have spiritual advisors who poison the minds of the other players to be provided with extra access to the team by the coaches?

There's a reason the evangelicals don't start up a "Fellowship of Christian Chess Players". Its because chess players aren't perceived to be cool. They want people to use our programs to drive people to their anti-LGBT agenda of "Muscular Christianity".

---

You personally might not care if a player is Gay, but Liberty University and the FCA/AIA people certainly do. And endorsing them is endorsing that discrimination and exclusion.

And its not revenue neutral. We, the non-Muscular Christians, are paying a significant portion of the bill for this. We are being harmed by this exclusion. Does Coastal Carolina pay a full time staff to help promote your LGBT group the same amount as your football coach? Of course they don't.

Basically, we are being shut out of opportunities that we are paying for. And its millions of dollars, every year, at every one of our institutions.

Scheduling Liberty is another way for our programs to marginalize us. Because it validates what they, and their ilk do as acceptable. Especially if our schools are not doing much (if anything) to offset that.

----

There are concrete things that all of our institutions can do to lessen marginalization of LGBT athletes. Maybe the best solution to all of this is to simply end the student fee/taxpayer subsidy and make the football programs stand on their own two feet.

This whole entire post says everything we needed to know about you.

You keep bringing up that there's been no LGBT coach or player at any of the Sun Belt schools... do you desire for them to shout out and make their presence known? What if our athletic teams do have LGBT players and their orientation is well-known around campus? Would you rather they make a big deal about it or treat their orientation like it's normalcy?

You need to get over it dude.
12-23-2017 03:21 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 11:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 10:50 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  If we didn’t interact with any one with opposing views we’d be pretty lonely and boring.

It’s a football game - seems we’re taking this too seriously.

It might be different if you weren't paying for a party you can't attend or that you are most definitely NOT welcome at. LGBT athletes and coaches are effectively locked out of the high salaries and multiple scholarships that we are paying significant amounts for. Scheduling Liberty is insulting and humiliating to our fans. And a clear sign that our ADs are going to further that discrimination rather than combat it.

If it wasn't serious money, you might have a point. But it is about serious money.

Lets make a deal...strip out the student fee and the taxpayer subsidy for athletics and make it voluntary...make the program completely revenue neutral for the University....then I'll STFU.
We all know you personally have a huge issue with Liberty, but to insinuate you speak for the entire fan base is ridiculous.

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12-23-2017 03:24 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 11:08 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:01 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 10:50 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  If we didn’t interact with any one with opposing views we’d be pretty lonely and boring.

It’s a football game - seems we’re taking this too seriously.

It might be different if you weren't paying for a party you can't attend or that you are most definitely NOT welcome at. LGBT athletes and coaches are effectively locked out of the high salaries and multiple scholarships that we are paying significant amounts for. Scheduling Liberty is insulting and humiliating to our fans.

If it wasn't serious money, you might have a point. But it is about serious money.

Doesn't bother me. If you don't like something don't go there. It's really simple. It's a big country. There are places that I am not comfortable at but I just stay away. I am not going to holler and scream t o make them agree with me. Amazed at the arrogance. I am American enough that it gets my goat when someone tries to ram something down my throat telling I have to agree with anything. If that hurts anyone's feelings...get a life live it and leave mine alone.

Oh BTW go APP beat Toledo. This is a sports page right?
Exactly!

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12-23-2017 03:25 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 11:43 AM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  I'll talk about their sports. They're lower tier. Out of the FCS schools worthy of moving up they'd not be in the top 10. For the rest of their sports, they're not as good as their FB team. A hypothetical invite to the Sin Belt is something I hope never comes

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There you go diverting the conversation away from Tom's ax grinding to an actual sports discussion.

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12-23-2017 03:31 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 03:15 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wow, this is a war against all those groups? Hard stop - life’s too short to make everything political.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Easy for you to say, if you aren't being discriminated against. And your community isn't paying millions per year to have discrimination against you be furthered.

Maybe if Liberty didn't make everything political and attacking on everyone else, they wouldn't be such a lightening rod. Everything they do is political. Affirm them and affirm their political agenda.

I repeat my question....for the millions of dollars each year that LGBT people, non-Christians, the foreign born, etc. spend to subsidize your program.....what do THEY get in return for that non-voluntary payment? At Georgia Southern and Troy, they get to see that money used to affirm even MORE discrimination against them.

So Georgia Southern and Troy are affirming discrimination?

Did you really just go there???

Troy's been doing it for years.....remember that special taxpayer funded dorm they set up? I do. Did they build a special building for the LGBT kids? Of course they didn't. Given that history I fully expected Troy to be an early supporter of Liberty's program. And they didn't disappoint, even working with a bunch of other schools to make sure that they'd get to endorse them.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 03:47 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
12-23-2017 03:31 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 03:21 PM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 01:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:59 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:11 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  You're right!!! We should force them into believing something different then what they believe! They don't have the freedom to make any decisions that express their beliefs. How dare they make a political stand that's faith based. They're committing the ultimate political correctness sin, and since someone has made us the moral authority, we should do everything in our power to put down, bully, protest, and intimidate these people till they become tolerant of what I say they should be tolerant of. It's time we take control and not allow ANY of these opposing beliefs in our society!!!

Oh, and Merry Christmas! :)

There's a HUGE difference between someone having offensive beliefs like "Gays and Jews shouldn't have equal access to employment and scholarship opportunities" and having taxpayer funded programs helping programs that further that agenda.

How much does your football program take from the taxpayers and students? How many scholarships have you ever provided to LGBT people from that pool of money? How many coaching jobs have been paid from that?

I do truly hate Liberty but for different reasons than most. I'm a born again Christian. I believe Jesus was the son of God and I try my best to live my life according to His example though I often fail. I only share that about myself because I think it makes my perspective more transparent.

I hate Liberty because I believe their hypocrisy paints a picture of christianity that's a false one and leads people away from the truth. The most recent glaring example of this is their love affair with Donald Trump. Liberty is Christian in name only. They're a republican university, not a Christian one.

So, now that you know my general feelings towards Liberty, you can see that I share some of your disdain for the "school" albeit for different reasons.

Now that my bias is shown in full disclosure above, as for the bolded part in your post, I would simply ask you how any of us could ever possibly answer that? There is no sexuality questionnaire filled out before receiving an athletic scholarship. If there were, I'm positive we would hear your outrage over that as well.

For all I know, half of the Coastal football team is gay. And I don't care. As long as they perform on the field and stay out of trouble, which is what they were given a scholarship to do, then as an alumnus and donor, I am happy.

I understand your perspective. But I don't think you really have looked at the numbers.

I argue that the fact that your school has never had an OPENLY gay recipient of any athletic scholarship at your school, or has never had an openly LGBT coach cannot be discounted as mere coincidence. The fact that NONE of our schools have is strong evidence of extreme structural discrimination. How many football scholarships have our institutions collectively offered? 50,000? Its simply not credible to argue that there isn't massive discrimination if exactly zero of those scholarships, virtually all of which are subsidized by the students and/or the taxpayers through non-voluntary payments, is simply coincidental. In the entire history of FBS, there has been exactly one player in the history of the entire sport that has played so much as one friggin' down as an openly LGBT player.

We know the biggest reason why... Muscular "Christianity". To get playing time in many places, you have to put up with overt preaching from anti-LGBT groups. Being part of the team is being part of the FCA in many places. Want personal time with the coach? You can meet with him on Wednesday night. Want to be a coach in HS? Better get recommended by your FCA colleagues. If you aren't at least open to being a "Muscular Christian", you find out that you're not welcome soon enough. And you just don't play football.

And even if a Gay player makes it to college, how will he fare? Will his team have the toxic influence of the FCA (or AIA) making overt testimonial calls part of being a team player? Will they have spiritual advisors who poison the minds of the other players to be provided with extra access to the team by the coaches?

There's a reason the evangelicals don't start up a "Fellowship of Christian Chess Players". Its because chess players aren't perceived to be cool. They want people to use our programs to drive people to their anti-LGBT agenda of "Muscular Christianity".

---

You personally might not care if a player is Gay, but Liberty University and the FCA/AIA people certainly do. And endorsing them is endorsing that discrimination and exclusion.

And its not revenue neutral. We, the non-Muscular Christians, are paying a significant portion of the bill for this. We are being harmed by this exclusion. Does Coastal Carolina pay a full time staff to help promote your LGBT group the same amount as your football coach? Of course they don't.

Basically, we are being shut out of opportunities that we are paying for. And its millions of dollars, every year, at every one of our institutions.

Scheduling Liberty is another way for our programs to marginalize us. Because it validates what they, and their ilk do as acceptable. Especially if our schools are not doing much (if anything) to offset that.

----

There are concrete things that all of our institutions can do to lessen marginalization of LGBT athletes. Maybe the best solution to all of this is to simply end the student fee/taxpayer subsidy and make the football programs stand on their own two feet.

This whole entire post says everything we needed to know about you.

You keep bringing up that there's been no LGBT coach or player at any of the Sun Belt schools... do you desire for them to shout out and make their presence known? What if our athletic teams do have LGBT players and their orientation is well-known around campus? Would you rather they make a big deal about it or treat their orientation like it's normalcy?

You need to get over it dude.

Again, its really simple, stop taking our dollars to further discrimination. Get rid of the student fee and taxpayer subsidy or at least attempt to make it accessible to LGBT athletes and coaches. And if you've never had so much as one LGBT player or coach ever feel not scared of the reprecussions enough to dare to live honestly....ask yourself why? 0 out of 50,000 isn't a coincidence.

Very few LGBT people that are comfortable with their surroundings elect to stay in the closet. Why live a lie if you don't have to? Its not normal to hide who you date from everyone on your football team. Its not normal to hide about where you go out on the weekend? Its not normal to lie about who you are.

If its 'not a big deal' like y'all say, then why is it that there has never, ever, been anyone not too scared to come out of the closet? You don't see numbers like 0 of 50,000 anywhere else in society. And we know that there are closeted people in your programs. And when they eventually come out, they all have the same story....they were scared to come out.

Having your AD openly affirm discrimination against LGBT athletes and students as something that 'isn't a big deal' is not a way to engender support of your LGBT athletes.

By the way there are religious groups that advocate racial discrimination. Would any of your teams schedule a team that excluded Black people from participation in athletics or coaching? Why are flat out bans on LGBT participation by Liberty somehow acceptable, but other types of discrimination, even if based upon the discriminator's religious beliefs any less so?
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 03:45 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
12-23-2017 03:40 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:35 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Liberty is a private university and for home and homes no money is exchanged at the G5 level. Actually in some cases Liberty is paying G5 programs for these.

Signing these home and home isn’t an attack on any group of people, claiming such is quite stretch even by today’s standards.

It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.
Wow! Talk about over dramatization! I seriously doubt any of our programs gets more than 1% of their operating budget from the groups you mentioned. However. If you want to play that game why don't we allow students/parents to redirect the amount of student fees away from the organizations they disagree with. I feel quite certain LGBT & similar groups would see a drastic reduction in funding. BTW, Merry Christmas!!

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(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 03:56 PM by AppManDG.)
12-23-2017 03:41 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 03:41 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:35 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Liberty is a private university and for home and homes no money is exchanged at the G5 level. Actually in some cases Liberty is paying G5 programs for these.

Signing these home and home isn’t an attack on any group of people, claiming such is quite stretch even by today’s standards.

It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.
Wow! Talk about over dramatization! I seriously doubt any of our programs gets more than 1% of their operating budget from the groups you mentioned. However. If you want to play that game why don't we allow students/parents to redirect the amount of student fees away from the organizations they disagree with. I feel quite certain LGBT & similar groups would see a drastic reduction in funding.

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Then it shouldn't be a big deal to allow students to say "I'm LGBT" and then they don't have to pay the football fee. They wouldn't get football tickets though. Why not make the student fee completely voluntary?

LGBT groups get virtually zero funding from anyone. They might get a room rental at the student center (probably they get 'last pick' of times), a tiny office and 500 bucks total from the student fee. Its not really much of a loss if we lost it. BTW, for years, most of our student groups couldn't even get that.

Uh, look at your student section on game day bud.... see all those empty seats?....your non-evangelical/straight/cisgendered/American born student population is a LOT more than 1%. And that brings up another issue...the refusal of our programs to even pretend to be relevant to anyone other than their special cohort. That's part of the reason why our stands sit empty on game day.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 04:00 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
12-23-2017 03:53 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #72
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 12:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wow, this is a war against all those groups? Hard stop - life’s too short to make everything political.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Easy for you to say, if you aren't being discriminated against. And your community isn't paying millions per year to have discrimination against you be furthered.

Maybe if Liberty didn't make everything political and attacking on everyone else, they wouldn't be such a lightening rod. Everything they do is political. Affirm them and affirm their political agenda.

I repeat my question....for the millions of dollars each year that LGBT people, non-Christians, the foreign born, etc. spend to subsidize your program.....what do THEY get in return for that non-voluntary payment? At Georgia Southern and Troy, they get to see that money used to affirm even MORE discrimination against them.
Please stop with the poor little discriminated me act. Most of us get offended and discriminated against every day. Every time I turn on the TV I hear people telling me what a bigot and sorry human being I am. Instead of running to my safe place and having a good cry, I turn it off and go about my business of working, paying taxes and contributing to this country. I suggest you do the same.

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12-23-2017 03:53 PM
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Post: #73
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 03:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 03:41 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:35 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Liberty is a private university and for home and homes no money is exchanged at the G5 level. Actually in some cases Liberty is paying G5 programs for these.

Signing these home and home isn’t an attack on any group of people, claiming such is quite stretch even by today’s standards.

It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.
Wow! Talk about over dramatization! I seriously doubt any of our programs gets more than 1% of their operating budget from the groups you mentioned. However. If you want to play that game why don't we allow students/parents to redirect the amount of student fees away from the organizations they disagree with. I feel quite certain LGBT & similar groups would see a drastic reduction in funding.

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Then it shouldn't be a big deal to allow students to say "I'm LGBT" and then they don't have to pay the football fee. They wouldn't get football tickets though. Why not make the student fee completely voluntary?

LGBT groups get virtually zero funding from anyone. They might get a room rental at the student center (probably they get 'last pick' of times), a tiny office and 50 bucks from the student fee. Its not really much of a loss if we lost it. BTW, for years, most of our student groups couldn't even get that.

Uh, look at your student section on game day bud.... see all those empty seats?....your non-evangelical/straight/cisgendered/American born student population is a LOT more than 1%. And that brings up another issue...the refusal of our programs to even pretend to be relevant to anyone other than their special cohort. That's part of the reason why our stands sit empty on game day.
You obviously haven't been to App State or know much about the demographics of our alumni base.

It's official, we now live in The United States of the Offended.

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(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 04:05 PM by AppManDG.)
12-23-2017 04:01 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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Post: #74
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 04:01 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 03:53 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 03:41 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:35 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Liberty is a private university and for home and homes no money is exchanged at the G5 level. Actually in some cases Liberty is paying G5 programs for these.

Signing these home and home isn’t an attack on any group of people, claiming such is quite stretch even by today’s standards.

It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.
Wow! Talk about over dramatization! I seriously doubt any of our programs gets more than 1% of their operating budget from the groups you mentioned. However. If you want to play that game why don't we allow students/parents to redirect the amount of student fees away from the organizations they disagree with. I feel quite certain LGBT & similar groups would see a drastic reduction in funding.

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Then it shouldn't be a big deal to allow students to say "I'm LGBT" and then they don't have to pay the football fee. They wouldn't get football tickets though. Why not make the student fee completely voluntary?

LGBT groups get virtually zero funding from anyone. They might get a room rental at the student center (probably they get 'last pick' of times), a tiny office and 50 bucks from the student fee. Its not really much of a loss if we lost it. BTW, for years, most of our student groups couldn't even get that.

Uh, look at your student section on game day bud.... see all those empty seats?....your non-evangelical/straight/cisgendered/American born student population is a LOT more than 1%. And that brings up another issue...the refusal of our programs to even pretend to be relevant to anyone other than their special cohort. That's part of the reason why our stands sit empty on game day.
You obviously haven't been to App State or know much about the demographics of our alumni base. We now live in The United States of the Offended.

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Again, what are the salaries of the football staff? How many LGBT coaches have you ever had? What about the sum total of your athletic scholarships over the last 10 years? Name one openly LGBT scholarship athlete at App. Ever.

Again, just make football stand on its own. No student tuition support or taxpayer support. Revenues in = revenues out. Scholarships are funded by that revenue too.
12-23-2017 04:05 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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Post: #75
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 03:53 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:16 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:05 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wow, this is a war against all those groups? Hard stop - life’s too short to make everything political.

Have a Merry Christmas.

Easy for you to say, if you aren't being discriminated against. And your community isn't paying millions per year to have discrimination against you be furthered.

Maybe if Liberty didn't make everything political and attacking on everyone else, they wouldn't be such a lightening rod. Everything they do is political. Affirm them and affirm their political agenda.

I repeat my question....for the millions of dollars each year that LGBT people, non-Christians, the foreign born, etc. spend to subsidize your program.....what do THEY get in return for that non-voluntary payment? At Georgia Southern and Troy, they get to see that money used to affirm even MORE discrimination against them.
Please stop with the poor little discriminated me act. Most of us get offended and discriminated against every day. Every time I turn on the TV I hear people telling me what a bigot and sorry human being I am. Instead of running to my safe place and having a good cry, I turn it off and go about my business of working, paying taxes and contributing to this country. I suggest you do the same.

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Again, stop making us pay for your 'welfare queen' football program and we will STFU. Without all the student fees....ALL of our programs would likely be in Division III. How about trying to make that stupid and VERY large FBS fee work for all students? You know we aren't asking for much....how about

1) Real and meaningful attempts to foster participation in our programs by all segments of the community
2) A refusal to schedule or affirm schools that advocate or promote discrimination
3) A rational discussion of how to integrate LGBT and non-evangelicals into our programs
4) Buy in by the Athletic Department to being accountable to all their stakeholders and funders

You do realize that your AD just got hit with a massive tax hike last week? They're going to need more money as a result of this.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 04:17 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
12-23-2017 04:07 PM
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CoastalAlum2011 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
Tom,

Do you consider yourself a South Alabama football supporter?

Not trying to be sarcastic, and this isn't a leading question.

I will have no follow up questions based on your answer.

I'm truly just curious as to where you stand.
12-23-2017 04:10 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #77
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 12:59 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 12:11 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:52 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 11:35 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Liberty is a private university and for home and homes no money is exchanged at the G5 level. Actually in some cases Liberty is paying G5 programs for these.

Signing these home and home isn’t an attack on any group of people, claiming such is quite stretch even by today’s standards.

It still involves the G5 program excluding a significant portion of their students and fans from the benefits of their programs. Schedule Liberty and you will be making a conscious decision to affirm the exclusion of non-Christians, LGBT persons, etc. from your program's. Its a full throated affirmation of Liberty's policies. Full stop.

It might be different if the ADs and football programs were doing ANYTHING to compensate for this. They aren't. How many LGBT or even non-Christian coaches make those high AD salaries? How many players get scholarships? How is the University equalizing funding for football.

None of our programs have EVER had an openly LGBT player or coach in FBS. Have any of our programs ever had so much as an openly LGBT player in ANY of our prominent team sports? How about Jews or openly Athiests? You might find a very small percentage at our schools. USA actually had a Jewish basketball coach, but that was a very rare situation. But then again, USA isn't scheduling Liberty.

Again, what do LGBT persons, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, the non-Religious, the non-American born, get from their Athletic Departments for the millions they take from us EVERY single year at EVERY single one of our institutions? Apparently, they get the University to spend millions on a party they aren't invited to.

You're right!!! We should force them into believing something different then what they believe! They don't have the freedom to make any decisions that express their beliefs. How dare they make a political stand that's faith based. They're committing the ultimate political correctness sin, and since someone has made us the moral authority, we should do everything in our power to put down, bully, protest, and intimidate these people till they become tolerant of what I say they should be tolerant of. It's time we take control and not allow ANY of these opposing beliefs in our society!!!

Oh, and Merry Christmas! :)

There's a HUGE difference between someone having offensive beliefs like "Gays and Jews shouldn't have equal access to employment and scholarship opportunities" and having taxpayer funded programs helping programs that further that agenda.

How much does your football program take from the taxpayers and students? How many scholarships have you ever provided to LGBT people from that pool of money? How many coaching jobs have been paid from that?

I do truly hate Liberty but for different reasons than most. I'm a born again Christian. I believe Jesus was the son of God and I try my best to live my life according to His example though I often fail. I only share that about myself because I think it makes my perspective more transparent.

I hate Liberty because I believe their hypocrisy paints a picture of christianity that's a false one and leads people away from the truth. The most recent glaring example of this is their love affair with Donald Trump. Liberty is Christian in name only. They're a republican university, not a Christian one.

So, now that you know my general feelings towards Liberty, you can see that I share some of your disdain for the "school" albeit for different reasons.

Now that my bias is shown in full disclosure above, as for the bolded part in your post, I would simply ask you how any of us could ever possibly answer that? There is no sexuality questionnaire filled out before receiving an athletic scholarship. If there were, I'm positive we would hear your outrage over that as well.

For all I know, half of the Coastal football team is gay. And I don't care. As long as they perform on the field and stay out of trouble, which is what they were given a scholarship to do, then as an alumnus and donor, I am happy.
Great. Now this has become a Republican vs Democratic thread. Just what we needed.

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12-23-2017 04:16 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #78
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
Thread is going to end up in the Spin Room if we can't tone it down.
12-23-2017 04:17 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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Post: #79
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 04:10 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Tom,

Do you consider yourself a South Alabama football supporter?

Not trying to be sarcastic, and this isn't a leading question.

I will have no follow up questions based on your answer.

I'm truly just curious as to where you stand.

I support USA and its athletic program at this time. I'm very troubled by the large student fee required to support that program.

If anything, my biggest concern with the AD at USA is related to their decision to retain a truly ineffective basketball coach.

I have serious issues about the viability of USA football. The subsidy appears to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70%. I'm not sold that its a worthy investment of our students' money. That being said, so long as the school doesn't try to openly abuse my support, I'm willing to let it play out. If you're demanding the students subsidize that level of funding...then you better damn well take their views into account before making controversial decisions.

I've given significant sums to the University and have bequeathed a truly large sum in my will. They are aware of that. I've never donated a dime to the athletic department, as I feel that my support of USA's scholarship activities constitutes a donation to the athletic department through fees deducted from my scholarship funds towards student fees.

---

I don't know what Georgia Southern's situation is. I have a better idea about Troy's situation. Either way, they're making decisions that are at best, a missed opportunity, and at worst, a potential problem for their schools. Why bother scheduling Liberty anyway? They suck at football, they don't help you recruit, they won't help you advance your program, they don't help you engage your stakeholders. And God only knows what new outrage they'll decide to attempt between now and your game. Another Teletubbies? More Mat Staver? Hiring Baylor's AD in the midst of a truly shocking scandal? Why not just schedule Kent State. Easy win and no fuss.
(This post was last modified: 12-23-2017 04:38 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
12-23-2017 04:22 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #80
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-23-2017 04:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-23-2017 04:10 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Tom,

Do you consider yourself a South Alabama football supporter?

Not trying to be sarcastic, and this isn't a leading question.

I will have no follow up questions based on your answer.

I'm truly just curious as to where you stand.

I support USA and its athletic program at this time. I'm very troubled by the large student fee required to support that program.

If anything, my biggest concern with the AD at USA is related to their decision to retain a truly ineffective basketball coach.

I have serious issues about the viability of USA football. The subsidy appears to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 70%. I'm not sold that its a worthy investment of our students' money. That being said, so long as the school doesn't try to openly abuse my support, I'm willing to let it play out. If you're demanding the students subsidize that level of funding...then you better damn well take their views into account before making controversial decisions.

I've given significant sums to the University and have bequeathed a truly large sum in my will. They are aware of that. I've never donated a dime to the athletic department, as I feel that my support of USA's scholarship activities constitutes a donation to the athletic department through fees deducted from my scholarship funds towards student fees.

---

I don't know what Georgia Southern's situation is. I have a better idea about Troy's situation. Either way, they're making decisions that are at best, a missed opportunity, and at worst, a potential problem for their schools. Why bother scheduling Liberty anyway? They suck at football, they don't help you recruit, they won't help you advance your program, they don't help you engage your stakeholders. And God only knows what new outrage they'll decide to attempt between now and your game. Another Teletubbies? More Mat Staver? Hiring Baylor's AD in the midst of a truly shocking scandal? Why not just schedule Kent State. Easy win and no fuss.

Since Liberty is independent, they have far more scheduling openings in the future than Kent State does

I don't like scheduling Liberty more because I don't like the fact that they can pay to get whatever they want, and work as a for profit institution. But given that Georgia Southern has struggled in the past to find opponents willing to come to Statesboro, I can understand the need.

I'm not sure the LGBT community at any of these schools is going to be terribly effected by the decision. It's not like they are sharing a conference. They are playing a football game. One that's not going to bring any money in for either school
12-23-2017 04:56 PM
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