Nashville was recently awarded an MLS expansion team. How does MLS compare to other leagues spanning the globe? Is it, for example, like AAA is to Major League Baseball? Is MLS improving relative to the rest of the world?

Thanks for the insights.

(12-22-2017 09:21 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Nashville was recently awarded an MLS expansion team. How does MLS compare to other leagues spanning the globe? Is it, for example, like AAA is to Major League Baseball? Is MLS improving relative to the rest of the world?

Thanks for the insights.

Its considered about the 13th or 14th best league in the world.

I'd rank it behind

La Liga--------------------Spain
Bundesliga----------------Germany
Premier League-----------England
Serie A--------------------Italy
Ligue 1--------------------France
Campeonato Brasileiro---Brazil
Primera División Argentina--Argentina
Liga MX--------------------Mexico
Primera Liga---------------Portugal
Super Liga-----------------Turkey
EFL Championship---------England 2nd Division
2nd. Bundesliga-----------Germany 2nd Division
Erdevisie-------------------Holland

I think the top 4 teams in MLS this year(Toronto, Atlanta, Seattle, and NYCFC) could compete in all of those leagues except La Liga, Bundesliga, Premier League and Serie A. When I say compete, I mean not get relegated. Not actually win the title or anything.

The issue with MLS isnt the top of the league. It's always been the middle class and bottom of the league. The worst teams in MLS would have a hard time in League Two(4th Division) in England.

Overall, the quality of MLS isn't that bad. However, it is a shock to watch the speed and skill of a Top 4 league game and then watch an MLS game. Most of the stadiums have really good atmospheres and they are fun to go to.

(12-22-2017 10:35 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 09:21 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Nashville was recently awarded an MLS expansion team. How does MLS compare to other leagues spanning the globe? Is it, for example, like AAA is to Major League Baseball? Is MLS improving relative to the rest of the world?

Thanks for the insights.

Its considered about the 13th or 14th best league in the world.

I'd rank it behind

La Liga--------------------Spain
Bundesliga----------------Germany
Premier League-----------England
Serie A--------------------Italy
Ligue 1--------------------France
Campeonato Brasileiro---Brazil
Primera División Argentina--Argentina
Liga MX--------------------Mexico
Primera Liga---------------Portugal
Super Liga-----------------Turkey
EFL Championship---------England 2nd Division
2nd. Bundesliga-----------Germany 2nd Division
Erdevisie-------------------Holland

I think the top 4 teams in MLS this year(Toronto, Atlanta, Seattle, and NYCFC) could compete in all of those leagues except La Liga, Bundesliga, Premier League and Serie A. When I say compete, I mean not get relegated. Not actually win the title or anything.

The issue with MLS isnt the top of the league. It's always been the middle class and bottom of the league. The worst teams in MLS would have a hard time in League Two(4th Division) in England.

Overall, the quality of MLS isn't that bad. However, it is a shock to watch the speed and skill of a Top 4 league game and then watch an MLS game. Most of the stadiums have really good atmospheres and they are fun to go to.

Thanks. Is it fair to say it is like Double A is to the Major League in baseball?

(12-22-2017 03:58 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 10:35 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 09:21 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Nashville was recently awarded an MLS expansion team. How does MLS compare to other leagues spanning the globe? Is it, for example, like AAA is to Major League Baseball? Is MLS improving relative to the rest of the world?

Thanks for the insights.

Its considered about the 13th or 14th best league in the world.

I'd rank it behind

La Liga--------------------Spain
Bundesliga----------------Germany
Premier League-----------England
Serie A--------------------Italy
Ligue 1--------------------France
Campeonato Brasileiro---Brazil
Primera División Argentina--Argentina
Liga MX--------------------Mexico
Primera Liga---------------Portugal
Super Liga-----------------Turkey
EFL Championship---------England 2nd Division
2nd. Bundesliga-----------Germany 2nd Division
Erdevisie-------------------Holland

I think the top 4 teams in MLS this year(Toronto, Atlanta, Seattle, and NYCFC) could compete in all of those leagues except La Liga, Bundesliga, Premier League and Serie A. When I say compete, I mean not get relegated. Not actually win the title or anything.

The issue with MLS isnt the top of the league. It's always been the middle class and bottom of the league. The worst teams in MLS would have a hard time in League Two(4th Division) in England.

Overall, the quality of MLS isn't that bad. However, it is a shock to watch the speed and skill of a Top 4 league game and then watch an MLS game. Most of the stadiums have really good atmospheres and they are fun to go to.

Thanks. Is it fair to say it is like Double A is to the Major League in baseball?

Top half is AAA, bottom half is AA

I don't think MLS is worse than at least three or four of those leagues listed, but it's not a far off assessment either.

(12-22-2017 06:54 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  I don't think MLS is worse than at least three or four of those leagues listed, but it's not a far off assessment either.

I dont think any team in MLS could win any of the leagues I mentioned.

(12-23-2017 02:37 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 06:54 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  I don't think MLS is worse than at least three or four of those leagues listed, but it's not a far off assessment either.

I dont think any team in MLS could win any of the leagues I mentioned.

the MLS is a nice league, the next step is to be the top league in North America.

(12-23-2017 03:01 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(12-23-2017 02:37 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(12-22-2017 06:54 PM)AlonsoWDC Wrote:  I don't think MLS is worse than at least three or four of those leagues listed, but it's not a far off assessment either.

I dont think any team in MLS could win any of the leagues I mentioned.

the MLS is a nice league, the next step is to be the top league in North America.

Yup. MLS should look to catch up to Liga MX.

Per an NPR article I read (Source), Nashville is counting on Millennials and immigrants to make soccer a success and cite the Preds as a model.

It will be a challenge.

1. The Preds are the top franchise in pro sports per ESPN (Source)
. It is unlikely the MLS will duplicate it.
2. The Preds are in the best hockey league in the world. The MLS is minor league. Thrifty soccer fans may opt to watch the best on TV rather than than pay major league prices for live attendance.
3. The large number of transplanted Yankees sustained the Preds in the early years as they would come out in droves to root for the team from their former city (eg, Detroit). I doubt MLS has the same loyalty level.
4. Nashville is growing, but still small compared to other cities with multiple pro franchises and strong college presence and thus stiff completion for entertainment dollars exists. Also, a recession will shrink available dollars.
5. Football is still the biggest sport of interest in Nashville and nothing is really close (per sports talk show hosts when listeners complain about the hours devoted to college football and the Titans).
6. Falling attendance for sporting events is a trend that does not appear will reverse.

Taxpayers like me (and not the multi-billionaire principle owner) will be on the hook if sales tax and ticket tax (both linked to attendance) are below a targeted amount. I am rooting for success.

(12-27-2017 09:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Per an NPR article I read (Source), Nashville is counting on Millennials and immigrants to make soccer a success and cite the Preds as a model.

It will be a challenge.

1. The Preds are the top franchise in pro sports per ESPN (Source) franchise according . It is unlikely the MLS will duplicate it.
2. The Preds are in the best hockey league in the world. The MLS is minor league. Thrifty soccer fans may opt to watch the best on TV rather than than pay major league prices for live attendance.
3. The large number of transplanted Yankees sustained the Preds in the early years as they would come out in droves to root for the team from their former city (eg, Detroit). I doubt MLS has the same loyalty level.
4. Nashville is growing, but still small compared to other cities with multiple pro franchises and strong college presence and thus stiff completion for entertainment dollars exists. Also, a recession will shrink available dollars.
5. Football is still the biggest sport of interest in Nashville and nothing is really close (per sports talk show hosts when listeners complain about the hours devoted to college football and the Titans).
6. Falling attendance for sporting events is a trend that does not appear will reverse.

Taxpayers like me (and not the multi-billionaire principle owner) will be on the hook if sales tax and ticket tax (both linked to attendance) are below a targeted amount. I am rooting for success.

Assuming the owner of your team isnt a complete idiot, Nashville should do fine.

The following cities are similar sizes:

Kansas City----One of the original franchises, Sporting KC rebranded itself about a decade ago and has been very successful since. Have won 2 MLS Cups and 4 US Open Cups. Average about 19k a game.

Columbus-----Also an original franchise. Columbus Crew was the original model of a perfect MLS franchise....soccer specific stadium, rabid fanbase. Unfortunately, they had an ******* buy the team a few years back that has tried to sabotage the team so he can move it to Austin. Still, a good fanbase and successful overall. 1 MLS Cups and 1 US Open Cup

Salt Lake City------Great Stadium, great fanbase. Average about 18-20k a game despite being awful the last 3 years. 1 MLS Cup and a 2nd Place in the CONCACAF Champions League

Portland-----A great franchise with an amazing fan culture. 1 MLS Cup and they sell out their stadium every game(21k)

Orlando----Only their 3rd season in MLS. Havent had much success on the field yet but still averaging over 25k a game.


One of the advantages MLS has is that they don't play the same time of year as the NFL, NBA, or NHL. They really dont compete against them.

The average MLS team averages 22k a game. Atlanta United and Seattle get over 40k a game. FC Dallas always brings up the bottom of the attendance rankings because they built a ****** stadium in the burbs with no shade. Dont do that and youll be fine.

(12-27-2017 09:48 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(12-27-2017 09:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Per an NPR article I read (Source), Nashville is counting on Millennials and immigrants to make soccer a success and cite the Preds as a model.

It will be a challenge.

1. The Preds are the top franchise in pro sports per ESPN (Source). It is unlikely the MLS will duplicate it.
2. The Preds are in the best hockey league in the world. The MLS is minor league. Thrifty soccer fans may opt to watch the best on TV rather than than pay major league prices for live attendance.
3. The large number of transplanted Yankees sustained the Preds in the early years as they would come out in droves to root for the team from their former city (eg, Detroit). I doubt MLS has the same loyalty level.
4. Nashville is growing, but still small compared to other cities with multiple pro franchises and strong college presence and thus stiff completion for entertainment dollars exists. Also, a recession will shrink available dollars.
5. Football is still the biggest sport of interest in Nashville and nothing is really close (per sports talk show hosts when listeners complain about the hours devoted to college football and the Titans).
6. Falling attendance for sporting events is a trend that does not appear will reverse.

Taxpayers like me (and not the multi-billionaire principle owner) will be on the hook if sales tax and ticket tax (both linked to attendance) are below a targeted amount. I am rooting for success.

Assuming the owner of your team isnt a complete idiot, Nashville should do fine.

The following cities are similar sizes:

Kansas City----One of the original franchises, Sporting KC rebranded itself about a decade ago and has been very successful since. Have won 2 MLS Cups and 4 US Open Cups. Average about 19k a game.

Columbus-----Also an original franchise. Columbus Crew was the original model of a perfect MLS franchise....soccer specific stadium, rabid fanbase. Unfortunately, they had an ******* buy the team a few years back that has tried to sabotage the team so he can move it to Austin. Still, a good fanbase and successful overall. 1 MLS Cups and 1 US Open Cup

Salt Lake City------Great Stadium, great fanbase. Average about 18-20k a game despite being awful the last 3 years. 1 MLS Cup and a 2nd Place in the CONCACAF Champions League

Portland-----A great franchise with an amazing fan culture. 1 MLS Cup and they sell out their stadium every game(21k)

Orlando----Only their 3rd season in MLS. Havent had much success on the field yet but still averaging over 25k a game.


One of the advantages MLS has is that they don't play the same time of year as the NFL, NBA, or NHL. They really dont compete against them.

The average MLS team averages 22k a game. Atlanta United and Seattle get over 40k a game. FC Dallas always brings up the bottom of the attendance rankings because they built a ****** stadium in the burbs with no shade. Dont do that and youll be fine.

Thanks for the info. The new stadium will be located at the under utilized fairgrounds close to the city’s core. It will include a 10 acre mixed-use ground lease (without bid) from a minority owner/local developer.

The taxpayers will pay over 30 years a $25 million GO bond for infrastructure. The $200M revenue bond for stadium construction will be paid off over 30 years. The Bond P&I will be paid by the team ($9M annually) and $4M annually from sales tax and ticket tax. I do not know who is on the hook for the $9M upon team relocation or shut-down, but typically Revenue Bonds are backed by the city (i.e. , taxpayers). Finally, there is undefined opportunity cost where people spending money on soccer instead on other taxable activities funding general fund expenditures.