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chiefsfan Online
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Post: #461
RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

Recruiting rankings are the most subjective things there ever was. It's basically all down to whether or not some supposed "expert" of talent sees the players you signed as strong.

Then there's the whole thing that it's easier to lead in a recruiting ranking at the G5 level if you have a dedicated reporter for a particular service who can work to insist players get rated. Or the players that can get an immediate star boost the minute they get a P5 offer.

I know when we win in the rankings we all like to spout off, but the reality is that its a meaningless tool used to make recruiting fun.
01-31-2018 10:27 PM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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Post: #462
2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-31-2018 10:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

Recruiting rankings are the most subjective things there ever was. It's basically all down to whether or not some supposed "expert" of talent sees the players you signed as strong.

Then there's the whole thing that it's easier to lead in a recruiting ranking at the G5 level if you have a dedicated reporter for a particular service who can work to insist players get rated. Or the players that can get an immediate star boost the minute they get a P5 offer.

I know when we win in the rankings we all like to spout off, but the reality is that its a meaningless tool used to make recruiting fun.


There’s absolutely subjectively in every player’s rating, like there is the scoring of gymnastics or diving or other such sports.
Over the last few years I think the recruiting services have improved dramatically in evaluating players, probably more so for those at the G5 level since they were given less attention in the past.
I think Troy is a good example of how they’ve gotten better and become more objective. Troy, which does not have a site on a network that evaluates recruits, has been near the top of the rankings ever since Neal Brown arrived and their results on the field have improved as well.
As has been pointed out, they currently lead the conference recruiting classes in average per player.
01-31-2018 10:41 PM
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chiefsfan Online
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Post: #463
RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-31-2018 10:41 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 10:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

Recruiting rankings are the most subjective things there ever was. It's basically all down to whether or not some supposed "expert" of talent sees the players you signed as strong.

Then there's the whole thing that it's easier to lead in a recruiting ranking at the G5 level if you have a dedicated reporter for a particular service who can work to insist players get rated. Or the players that can get an immediate star boost the minute they get a P5 offer.

I know when we win in the rankings we all like to spout off, but the reality is that its a meaningless tool used to make recruiting fun.


There’s absolutely subjectively in every player’s rating, like there is the scoring of gymnastics or diving or other such sports.
Over the last few years I think the recruiting services have improved dramatically in evaluating players, probably more so for those at the G5 level since they were given less attention in the past.
I think Troy is a good example of how they’ve gotten better and become more objective. Troy, which does not have a site on a network that evaluates recruits, has been near the top of the rankings ever since Neal Brown arrived and their results on the field have improved as well.
As has been pointed out, they currently lead the conference recruiting classes in average per player.

I'm not arguing whether or not Troy has the best evaluated class in the conference. I'm just pointing out that we'll know a lot more in a few years about whether or not the players can deliver to their potential than we will now.

It's gotten better at the G5 level, but both you and I know that if one of those Troy commits jumped for Florida State tomorrow, they'd immediately go up in evaluation.
02-01-2018 02:38 AM
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AppinSC Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
I know that this is old (like me) but it still speaks volumes in regards to recruiting rankings and such. App does seem to get a lot out of what they have to work with. 05-mafia


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzETb9FSMw
02-01-2018 09:34 AM
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AtlantaJag Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 02:38 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 10:41 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 10:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

Recruiting rankings are the most subjective things there ever was. It's basically all down to whether or not some supposed "expert" of talent sees the players you signed as strong.

Then there's the whole thing that it's easier to lead in a recruiting ranking at the G5 level if you have a dedicated reporter for a particular service who can work to insist players get rated. Or the players that can get an immediate star boost the minute they get a P5 offer.

I know when we win in the rankings we all like to spout off, but the reality is that its a meaningless tool used to make recruiting fun.


There’s absolutely subjectively in every player’s rating, like there is the scoring of gymnastics or diving or other such sports.
Over the last few years I think the recruiting services have improved dramatically in evaluating players, probably more so for those at the G5 level since they were given less attention in the past.
I think Troy is a good example of how they’ve gotten better and become more objective. Troy, which does not have a site on a network that evaluates recruits, has been near the top of the rankings ever since Neal Brown arrived and their results on the field have improved as well.
As has been pointed out, they currently lead the conference recruiting classes in average per player.

I'm not arguing whether or not Troy has the best evaluated class in the conference. I'm just pointing out that we'll know a lot more in a few years about whether or not the players can deliver to their potential than we will now.

It's gotten better at the G5 level, but both you and I know that if one of those Troy commits jumped for Florida State tomorrow, they'd immediately go up in evaluation.

The bolded is a given that everyone can agree on.
02-01-2018 10:08 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...
02-01-2018 11:16 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-31-2018 11:09 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.

Based on 247 ratings, App State's talent is in the lower half of G5 teams. Can anyone but a moron really watch them and say that? Can anyone say GS was among the least talented G5 teams in 2014 and 2015 (which recruiting stars would indicate)? But I guess both teams just had tons and tons of "outliers" on their teams.

We're kidding ourselves if we think Scout and 247 care enough about the G5 to put the money and resources forward to do rigorous analysis. And it would be very naive to suggest there isn't both conscious and unconscious bias in ratings based on who a player has commtted to.

Name all the teams any Sun Belt team has beaten that had a significant talent advantage on paper 07-coffee3 Beating MAC teams and losing to UMASS is not not proving rankings wrong. Nobody said you can just go off 24/7 rankings to see who is better but yes as far as winning App has been outlier nationally not for the Belt though as we are grouped pretty tightly in the top half and the worst conference in CFB right now, the word outlier exists for a reason and the Sun Belt is the lowest ranked conf for a reason and its not because we hire the worst coaches, well we did but overall it is not true. They really are not that much of an outlier either given most of their wins are against teams they are actually more talented than or within a insignificant difference. How about looking at all 130+/- teams to make conclusions or is that asking to much? If Troy continued this for four years they would be distinctly more talented but ONE year ONE team ONE recruit is called anecdotal they are going to likely lose their coach within two years and likely be set back a bit that is why ONE class does not matter much nor does ONE team out of 130. The proof of the validity of these ranking have been proven in every single measurable way whether it be all american, winning correlation, bowl appearances and or the NFL draft for all star rankings. They are reliable indicators of a kids success and a teams success over time for most teams, MOST not all. For every App there are literally 10 Kent States proving the rankings validity. They are not 100% which is a dumb standard to judge anything on and what the detractors cling on to like their life depended on it.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 11:52 AM by JCGSU.)
02-01-2018 11:25 AM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 10:08 AM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 02:38 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 10:41 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 10:27 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

Recruiting rankings are the most subjective things there ever was. It's basically all down to whether or not some supposed "expert" of talent sees the players you signed as strong.

Then there's the whole thing that it's easier to lead in a recruiting ranking at the G5 level if you have a dedicated reporter for a particular service who can work to insist players get rated. Or the players that can get an immediate star boost the minute they get a P5 offer.

I know when we win in the rankings we all like to spout off, but the reality is that its a meaningless tool used to make recruiting fun.


There’s absolutely subjectively in every player’s rating, like there is the scoring of gymnastics or diving or other such sports.
Over the last few years I think the recruiting services have improved dramatically in evaluating players, probably more so for those at the G5 level since they were given less attention in the past.
I think Troy is a good example of how they’ve gotten better and become more objective. Troy, which does not have a site on a network that evaluates recruits, has been near the top of the rankings ever since Neal Brown arrived and their results on the field have improved as well.
As has been pointed out, they currently lead the conference recruiting classes in average per player.

I'm not arguing whether or not Troy has the best evaluated class in the conference. I'm just pointing out that we'll know a lot more in a few years about whether or not the players can deliver to their potential than we will now.

It's gotten better at the G5 level, but both you and I know that if one of those Troy commits jumped for Florida State tomorrow, they'd immediately go up in evaluation.

The bolded is a given that everyone can agree on.

It is a no brainer but when you have three three stars competing for the same spot only a moron would think you have just a good a CHANCE with hitting on high talented player with three two stars kids. AL is AL not because every recruit hits it is because they have a better chance of hitting on 22 starters all being good when you have only four and five star kids realistically competing for the same spots. If one is a bust you have two more than can make up for it more often than not. They have had plenty of high four and probably five star guys never see the field. Same can be applied at any level, you get a three star ranking most often because you have had great numbers in high school and performed well in camps this is also how you get offers. Some of you need to look at your teams offers and ask why do our coaches offer high three and four star kids and realize that is who they want, low three and two star kids is as good as they can get you are kidding yourselves if you think they would not trade for Tulane's class right now.
02-01-2018 11:36 AM
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Saint3333 Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.
02-01-2018 01:26 PM
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panama Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(01-31-2018 12:17 PM)Panthers347 Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 12:03 PM)eaglewraith Wrote:  
(01-31-2018 11:35 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  GSU now leads at 247: https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Footba...erence=SBC

They will be a force in the SBC soon, but some will deny these rankings. We'll see who's right.

In fairness, they're #1 right now by pure brute force (ie number in their list).

Troy's average is more impressive to me.

No doubt their recruiting has improved though.
Yeah, doesn't actually count tbh.
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02-01-2018 03:20 PM
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2018 06:59 PM by AppManDG.)
02-01-2018 06:56 PM
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Seminowl Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.
02-01-2018 11:15 PM
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ComeBackShack Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 11:15 PM)Seminowl Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.

03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

Saban isn't that good of a coach??! He is the best coach in the history of college football. How many other coaches with his roster lose that game to Georgia after going down early? How many coaches pull their QB mid-game and win with a true freshman? 1...and it's Saban.
02-02-2018 09:05 AM
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NewJersey GATA Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-02-2018 09:05 AM)ComeBackShack Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:15 PM)Seminowl Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.

03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

Saban isn't that good of a coach??! He is the best coach in the history of college football. How many other coaches with his roster lose that game to Georgia after going down early? How many coaches pull their QB mid-game and win with a true freshman? 1...and it's Saban.

I'll have to agree with my goat loving rival. UGA has had a top 12 recruiting class EVERY YEAR for the past 12+ years and ZERO National Championships along with the majority of HC in college football. Saban is an excellent recruiter (but so are many programs) yet all those other colleges fail to win National Championships.
02-02-2018 11:09 AM
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eaglewraith Online
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 11:15 PM)Seminowl Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.

To your first part, see: Tyson Summers.

As for the Saban part, I think the more accurate way to put it is that Saban isn't the best "technical" coach from what most have said(although he is VERY sharp), but he is the best HEAD coach in terms of the details he pays to the entire program and what it needs in addition to recruiting.

The guy knows how to put the pieces together to form a team that just wins. That's what you want your head coach to do. By that measure I'd say it could be argued he's the best college football coach ever.
02-02-2018 11:15 AM
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CajunAmos Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-02-2018 11:15 AM)eaglewraith Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:15 PM)Seminowl Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.

To your first part, see: Tyson Summers.

As for the Saban part, I think the more accurate way to put it is that Saban isn't the best "technical" coach from what most have said(although he is VERY sharp), but he is the best HEAD coach in terms of the details he pays to the entire program and what it needs in addition to recruiting.

The guy knows how to put the pieces together to form a team that just wins. That's what you want your head coach to do. By that measure I'd say it could be argued he's the best college football coach ever.

He's also probably the best in putting staffs together. He's replaced a number of assistants during this period as well and always appears to have new coaches that fit very well into what they want to get accomplished.
02-02-2018 11:27 AM
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Eagleditka Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
Summary of where Georgia Southern is right now heading into the final weekend.

http://www.forgotten5.com/2018/02/02/wee...hern-look/
02-02-2018 12:20 PM
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Seminowl Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-02-2018 11:09 AM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  
(02-02-2018 09:05 AM)ComeBackShack Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:15 PM)Seminowl Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 06:56 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Rimshot

I'll take our low 3 star and 2 star players and the conference championships and bowl wins they produce over some arbitrary "win" in recruiting rankings.
Good recruits with bad coaching means absolutely nothing. Now a semi competent coach, with good recruits can mean the world. Saban isn’t the best coach but he absolutely is the best recruiter.

03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

Saban isn't that good of a coach??! He is the best coach in the history of college football. How many other coaches with his roster lose that game to Georgia after going down early? How many coaches pull their QB mid-game and win with a true freshman? 1...and it's Saban.

I'll have to agree with my goat loving rival. UGA has had a top 12 recruiting class EVERY YEAR for the past 12+ years and ZERO National Championships along with the majority of HC in college football. Saban is an excellent recruiter (but so are many programs) yet all those other colleges fail to win National Championships.

I simply said Saban isn’t the best coach, and I meant as far as in game management. Sabans staff has always been filled head coach quality assistants. Brian Daboll had been arguing with Saban to put Tua in for at least half of the season, what you saw was a head coach give into his OC.

Also Alabama has had the top class every year since 2011, UGAs top 12 classes are not the same. There is a big difference.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 01:31 PM by Seminowl.)
02-02-2018 01:27 PM
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TheEagleWay Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
Saban not being the best CFB coach?

I'm not sure you've been paying attention.
02-02-2018 01:28 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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RE: 2018 Class FB Recruiting Thread
(02-01-2018 01:26 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-01-2018 11:16 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  
(01-30-2018 10:08 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  38. We’ve beat you six out of the last seven games with lower recruiting rankings. So yeah it’s a crap shoot.




27. I found an outlier that proves the whole system is flawed, and I've ignored the other 99% of that disproves my point.

and there it is...

Wins on the field prove all other data irrelevant. You can celebrate your title in February, we enjoy celebrating ours during the football season.

You play to win the game.

Thanks Herm 2.0, 27. in full effect! 2 teams out of 130 that are probably well within 10 spots are far as rated talent proves the typical results of the other 130 teams wrong...I mean you cant make this up lol. Again who has App beaten of note that had a significant talent advantage?

Appholes get sensitive when they drop in the rankings I see lol. Nobody in the Belt has separated themselves as far as a significant talent gap for the top teams? Not alot of difference in 90t and 95th in the country guy or can you read? If we were ranked like a top AAC team and you beat us you might have a coherent point but still only two teams out of 130. Said it a million times our conference finish is basically top half and bottom half the Sun Belt nationally is typically grouped tightly together. The standings usually reflect that as well. Same for conference ratings as the AAC is at the top and the Belt is at the bottom for now. That is not due to just coaching and development it is talent.

Troy is killing it this year but has not consistently done so if they put four classes like that together then there will be a talent gap of significance. If they drop back down into the low 90's they are right back with everyone else. You morons want to make it sound like if one team finishes one spot ahead in the rankings and does not win the system is junk lol. Im gonna go with what is typical for 130 teams not just two teams that are rivals and one had an all time bad coach.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2018 01:47 PM by JCGSU.)
02-02-2018 01:28 PM
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