They weren't close to an invite. They rejected an invite. Big difference.

(11-28-2017 12:37 AM)Clarity Wrote:  They weren't close to an invite. They rejected an invite. Big difference.

Guess they'll regret that decision pretty soon then.

(11-28-2017 12:35 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:33 AM)Clarity Wrote:  I already told you per my sources close to the GCU athletic department that GCU was close to joining the Horizon this spring. I imagine GCU and NMSU to the Horizon will be happening. It's the only solution.

Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes, so close to an invite means dick.

LOL at Dick

(11-28-2017 12:42 AM)WACfan86 Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:35 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:33 AM)Clarity Wrote:  I already told you per my sources close to the GCU athletic department that GCU was close to joining the Horizon this spring. I imagine GCU and NMSU to the Horizon will be happening. It's the only solution.

Close only counts in hand grenades and horseshoes, so close to an invite means dick.

LOL at Dick

I know. Never heard that one before in that context.

Sent from my SM-G950U using CSNbbs mobile app

(11-28-2017 12:29 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Then why were GCU and NMSU looking to leave just last year? This was never a long term thing, it was a conference out of necessity. Everyone wanted out. CSUB knew it was going to happen and got out. That's not a risk you can take.

It's the WAC, everyone always wants out. Fresno wanted out since '99.

In the Big West no one wants out, no one worries about getting left behind. And they all sit and vegetate. No one gets better.

GCU wants to win, NMSU wants to win, UVU wants to win. You know who seems to meet the BW profile? Seattle. I don't think they care about winning very much. They want to have a nice team so they can say they play sports to alumni and students, which is what it seems like Poly has become. I don't think crashing the NCAAs is high on their priority list.

I don't think having essentially a CA public school third tier athletic league is conducive to success. There is no differentiation, and they all get lost in the scrum outside of their niches like Titan baseball, Gaucho soccer, and occasionally Niner basketball. There is no pressure.

I don't mean to be so negative, because there are things I genuinely like about the BW, and I give them credit for putting the student first in student athletes. And for the diverse collection of athletes the league allows to participate in college athletics.

In basketball, CSUB will be fine and compete for championships as long as Barnes is there. Which would have been the case in the WAC too. I think it might be a little harder to win it just because there are more teams even if the WAC is a stronger conference. In baseball, I think its really tough. The Runners are rebuilding right now, and now there is no difference between CSB and Rivertucky or Chatsworth school of adult filmmaking. It makes it harder. I know the WAC is a one bid baseball league, which has both hurt and helped CSB. The Big West is often a 2 bid league. But it's a tough row to how in the Big West league schedule.

I think it would be very tough for an administration in CSUB's shoes to turn the Big West down. But as a fan, I feel a little betrayed and let down by it. Most Runners fans will disagree with me, and just be glad to be playing schools they've heard of.

I feel like this is the 5th time mentioning this but Hawaii won a tournament game two years ago over a very good Cal team with Jaylen Brown on it. Since football imploded no WAC school has won a game in the tournament and only two have gone dancing NMSU and CSUB. UCSB is recruiting multiple FOUR star recruits. The Big West is on the upswing and this raises CSUB's recruiting profile in California. This will help CSUB basketball. They will be competing for championships like you said as long as Barnes stays. There was no option to stay in the WAC long term. It just was never an option. Every team wanted out of it because they knew it was unstable and couldn't recruit a SINGLE division 1 team to come in. It was going to implode and CSUB got out thankfully. We would've been left without a conference and had to go back to D2 if this didn't happen. You should be celebrating. This move is being celebrated everywhere. This is also a big deal for fans to finally travel well to road games. That is huge. I'm just not understanding this disconnect. It's truly baffling.

I do not get why people think one defection automatically means the WAC is doomed.

The WAC now has 8 members going forward and 9 for the next two seasons. Time to add more D2 schools. The minimum number is 7 for an AQ.

Regardless of how you feel about the likely hood of UMKC leaving the WAC, that only would leave the WAC at 7 if in fact UMKC left. What evidence is there that the Summit wants UMKC back at all? Chicago State wont be going anywhere clearly. They have been left for dead for years, going thru the Great West even.

Unless the Big Sky does in fact want that 12th member AND UMKC gets back into the Summit, which both happening is unlikely, the WAC will be in existence. The conference can survive up to 2 defections right now. But imo, only 1 (CSUB) is happening

(11-28-2017 02:14 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:29 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Then why were GCU and NMSU looking to leave just last year? This was never a long term thing, it was a conference out of necessity. Everyone wanted out. CSUB knew it was going to happen and got out. That's not a risk you can take.

It's the WAC, everyone always wants out. Fresno wanted out since '99.

In the Big West no one wants out, no one worries about getting left behind. And they all sit and vegetate. No one gets better.

GCU wants to win, NMSU wants to win, UVU wants to win. You know who seems to meet the BW profile? Seattle. I don't think they care about winning very much. They want to have a nice team so they can say they play sports to alumni and students, which is what it seems like Poly has become. I don't think crashing the NCAAs is high on their priority list.

I don't think having essentially a CA public school third tier athletic league is conducive to success. There is no differentiation, and they all get lost in the scrum outside of their niches like Titan baseball, Gaucho soccer, and occasionally Niner basketball. There is no pressure.

I don't mean to be so negative, because there are things I genuinely like about the BW, and I give them credit for putting the student first in student athletes. And for the diverse collection of athletes the league allows to participate in college athletics.

In basketball, CSUB will be fine and compete for championships as long as Barnes is there. Which would have been the case in the WAC too. I think it might be a little harder to win it just because there are more teams even if the WAC is a stronger conference. In baseball, I think its really tough. The Runners are rebuilding right now, and now there is no difference between CSB and Rivertucky or Chatsworth school of adult filmmaking. It makes it harder. I know the WAC is a one bid baseball league, which has both hurt and helped CSB. The Big West is often a 2 bid league. But it's a tough row to how in the Big West league schedule.

I think it would be very tough for an administration in CSUB's shoes to turn the Big West down. But as a fan, I feel a little betrayed and let down by it. Most Runners fans will disagree with me, and just be glad to be playing schools they've heard of.

Grad, Redhawk Robert here. I feel your pain man. Back in the Scout days, you and I were the constant WAC "cheerleaders" and mostly always positive of the WACs moves and potential. Wish CSUB the best in the BWC. I think it's the "wrong" move, but I can totally understand why. Hope to see Bako and SU in some non-conference matchups.

(11-28-2017 10:19 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 02:14 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:29 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Then why were GCU and NMSU looking to leave just last year? This was never a long term thing, it was a conference out of necessity. Everyone wanted out. CSUB knew it was going to happen and got out. That's not a risk you can take.

It's the WAC, everyone always wants out. Fresno wanted out since '99.

In the Big West no one wants out, no one worries about getting left behind. And they all sit and vegetate. No one gets better.

GCU wants to win, NMSU wants to win, UVU wants to win. You know who seems to meet the BW profile? Seattle. I don't think they care about winning very much. They want to have a nice team so they can say they play sports to alumni and students, which is what it seems like Poly has become. I don't think crashing the NCAAs is high on their priority list.

I don't think having essentially a CA public school third tier athletic league is conducive to success. There is no differentiation, and they all get lost in the scrum outside of their niches like Titan baseball, Gaucho soccer, and occasionally Niner basketball. There is no pressure.

I don't mean to be so negative, because there are things I genuinely like about the BW, and I give them credit for putting the student first in student athletes. And for the diverse collection of athletes the league allows to participate in college athletics.

In basketball, CSUB will be fine and compete for championships as long as Barnes is there. Which would have been the case in the WAC too. I think it might be a little harder to win it just because there are more teams even if the WAC is a stronger conference. In baseball, I think its really tough. The Runners are rebuilding right now, and now there is no difference between CSB and Rivertucky or Chatsworth school of adult filmmaking. It makes it harder. I know the WAC is a one bid baseball league, which has both hurt and helped CSB. The Big West is often a 2 bid league. But it's a tough row to how in the Big West league schedule.

I think it would be very tough for an administration in CSUB's shoes to turn the Big West down. But as a fan, I feel a little betrayed and let down by it. Most Runners fans will disagree with me, and just be glad to be playing schools they've heard of.

Grad, Redhawk Robert here. I feel your pain man. Back in the Scout days, you and I were the constant WAC "cheerleaders" and mostly always positive of the WACs moves and potential. Wish CSUB the best in the BWC. I think it's the "wrong" move, but I can totally understand why. Hope to see Bako and SU in some non-conference matchups.

I recall those old days where RR was really the only SU message board presence. Those were the days of camaraderie as we were all struggling in a bottom dwelling conference, praying that the WAC would somehow survive. Im proud of what this conference has grown from at that time. The message boards were also fairly dead compared to nowadays.

Sent from my SM-G950U using CSNbbs mobile app

Recruiting and landing 4 star recruits is two different things. That being said, Bakersfield to Big West makes perfect sense even though every teams fan base in the Big West hates having Bakersfield in their conference for multiple reasons. Just check out their message board for the reasons. Too many to list here. They are not really happy about the addition of UC-San Diego either but they really hate the Bakersfield addition. That being said, I will be cheering for every WAC team adamantly when they play Bakersfield including my brethren from Grand Canyon University.

(11-28-2017 01:08 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Recruiting and landing 4 star recruits is two different things. That being said, Bakersfield to Big West makes perfect sense even though every teams fan base in the Big West hates having Bakersfield in their conference for multiple reasons. Just check out their message board for the reasons. Too many to list here. They are not really happy about the addition of UC-San Diego either but they really hate the Bakersfield addition. That being said, I will be cheering for every WAC team adamantly when they play Bakersfield including my brethren from Grand Canyon University.

UCSB landed Amadou Sow who is rated 3* by 247Sports and 4* by ESPN.

https://247sports.com/Player/Amadou-Sow-93837


http://www.espn.com/college-sports/baske...amadou-sow

DeVearl Ramsey transferred to UCSB from Nevada (three years eligibility) and if he maintains his grades, Bryce Peters (from Colorado) will be added as well. Both were rated 3* and 4* in high school.

(11-28-2017 01:52 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 01:08 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Recruiting and landing 4 star recruits is two different things. That being said, Bakersfield to Big West makes perfect sense even though every teams fan base in the Big West hates having Bakersfield in their conference for multiple reasons. Just check out their message board for the reasons. Too many to list here. They are not really happy about the addition of UC-San Diego either but they really hate the Bakersfield addition. That being said, I will be cheering for every WAC team adamantly when they play Bakersfield including my brethren from Grand Canyon University.

UCSB landed Amadou Sow who is rated 3* by 247Sports and 4* by ESPN.

https://247sports.com/Player/Amadou-Sow-93837


http://www.espn.com/college-sports/baske...amadou-sow

DeVearl Ramsey transferred to UCSB from Nevada (three years eligibility) and if he maintains his grades, Bryce Peters (from Colorado) will be added as well. Both were rated 3* and 4* in high school.

There are a select few BWC schools who have the infrastructure, academics, facilities, tradition to be good mid-major programs; and recruit well reflecting that... UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State, Hawaii, UC Davis, and UC Irvine. However, there a lot of schools in the BWC who play in rinky dink "glorified" gyms; which is hard to distinguish one California school from another. I think Cal State Bakersfield will eventually gravitate toward the mean and be lost amongst the group. With the right coach, there are better versions of CSUB in the BWC.

Cal Poly... Robert Motts Athletic Center... capacity 3,032
Cal State Fullerton... Titan Gym... capacity 4,000
Cal State Northridge... Matadome... capacity 2,400
Cal State Bakersfield... Icardo Center... capacity 3,800
Hawaii... Stan Sheriff Center... capacity 10,300
Long Beach State... Walter Pyramid... capacity 4,200
UC Davis... The Pavilion... capacity 7,600
UC Irvine... The Bren Event Center... 5,000
UC Riverside... SRC Arena... capacity 3,168
UC San Diego... RIMAC Arena... capacity 5,000
UC Santa Barbara... UCSB Event Center... capacity 5,600

(11-28-2017 02:53 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 01:52 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 01:08 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Recruiting and landing 4 star recruits is two different things. That being said, Bakersfield to Big West makes perfect sense even though every teams fan base in the Big West hates having Bakersfield in their conference for multiple reasons. Just check out their message board for the reasons. Too many to list here. They are not really happy about the addition of UC-San Diego either but they really hate the Bakersfield addition. That being said, I will be cheering for every WAC team adamantly when they play Bakersfield including my brethren from Grand Canyon University.

UCSB landed Amadou Sow who is rated 3* by 247Sports and 4* by ESPN.

https://247sports.com/Player/Amadou-Sow-93837


http://www.espn.com/college-sports/baske...amadou-sow

DeVearl Ramsey transferred to UCSB from Nevada (three years eligibility) and if he maintains his grades, Bryce Peters (from Colorado) will be added as well. Both were rated 3* and 4* in high school.

There are a select few BWC schools who have the infrastructure, academics, facilities, tradition to be good mid-major programs; and recruit well reflecting that... UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State, Hawaii, UC Davis, and UC Irvine. However, there a lot of schools in the BWC who play in rinky dink "glorified" gyms; which is hard to distinguish one California school from another. I think Cal State Bakersfield will eventually gravitate toward the mean and be lost amongst the group. With the right coach, there are better versions of CSUB in the BWC.

Cal Poly... Robert Motts Athletic Center... capacity 3,032
Cal State Fullerton... Titan Gym... capacity 4,000
Cal State Northridge... Matadome... capacity 2,400
Cal State Bakersfield... Icardo Center... capacity 3,800
Hawaii... Stan Sheriff Center... capacity 10,300
Long Beach State... Walter Pyramid... capacity 4,200
UC Davis... The Pavilion... capacity 7,600
UC Irvine... The Bren Event Center... 5,000
UC Riverside... SRC Arena... capacity 3,168
UC San Diego... RIMAC Arena... capacity 5,000
UC Santa Barbara... UCSB Event Center... capacity 5,600

That is just not true. Our AD yesterday just said he has big plans for the facilities including the Icardo Center. We just got a massive video board this season. With the saved money on travel it will be going towards this. Plus CSUB sold out half the games last year and will sell out most this year. How many Big West schools can say that?

(11-28-2017 10:19 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 02:14 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(11-28-2017 12:29 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Then why were GCU and NMSU looking to leave just last year? This was never a long term thing, it was a conference out of necessity. Everyone wanted out. CSUB knew it was going to happen and got out. That's not a risk you can take.

It's the WAC, everyone always wants out. Fresno wanted out since '99.

In the Big West no one wants out, no one worries about getting left behind. And they all sit and vegetate. No one gets better.

GCU wants to win, NMSU wants to win, UVU wants to win. You know who seems to meet the BW profile? Seattle. I don't think they care about winning very much. They want to have a nice team so they can say they play sports to alumni and students, which is what it seems like Poly has become. I don't think crashing the NCAAs is high on their priority list.

I don't think having essentially a CA public school third tier athletic league is conducive to success. There is no differentiation, and they all get lost in the scrum outside of their niches like Titan baseball, Gaucho soccer, and occasionally Niner basketball. There is no pressure.

I don't mean to be so negative, because there are things I genuinely like about the BW, and I give them credit for putting the student first in student athletes. And for the diverse collection of athletes the league allows to participate in college athletics.

In basketball, CSUB will be fine and compete for championships as long as Barnes is there. Which would have been the case in the WAC too. I think it might be a little harder to win it just because there are more teams even if the WAC is a stronger conference. In baseball, I think its really tough. The Runners are rebuilding right now, and now there is no difference between CSB and Rivertucky or Chatsworth school of adult filmmaking. It makes it harder. I know the WAC is a one bid baseball league, which has both hurt and helped CSB. The Big West is often a 2 bid league. But it's a tough row to how in the Big West league schedule.

I think it would be very tough for an administration in CSUB's shoes to turn the Big West down. But as a fan, I feel a little betrayed and let down by it. Most Runners fans will disagree with me, and just be glad to be playing schools they've heard of.

Grad, Redhawk Robert here. I feel your pain man. Back in the Scout days, you and I were the constant WAC "cheerleaders" and mostly always positive of the WACs moves and potential. Wish CSUB the best in the BWC. I think it's the "wrong" move, but I can totally understand why. Hope to see Bako and SU in some non-conference matchups.

Hey RR, how you been?
Sorry for the Seattle crack, I don’t even know if that’s true, I was just mad last night.

They were literally getting ready to turn the lights off on the league, then Seattle and CSUB came in. It’s been really satisfying to see things go well for the runners and watch the wac reinvent itself. It was chaotic, one day at a time. But CSB thrived and I got to watch all that and share it with you, runnerball, the hornets fans, sparty and the rest.

I’m just not sure if CSB can keep that edge that made it so fun in the static and uniform BW.

Quote:That is just not true. Our AD yesterday just said he has big plans for the facilities including the Icardo Center. We just got a massive video board this season. With the saved money on travel it will be going towards this. Plus CSUB sold out half the games last year and will sell out most this year. How many Big West schools can say that?

I said, "With the right coach, there are better versions of CSUB (already) in the BWC." Other BWC schools have already made a lot of CSUB's facility advancements years ago.

Cal Poly... Robert Motts Athletic Center... cap. 3,032... att. 1,728
Cal State Fullerton... Titan Gym... cap. 4,000... att. 833
Cal State Northridge... Matadome... cap. 2,400... att. 913
Cal State Bakersfield... Icardo Center... cap. 3,800... att. 2,685
Hawaii... Stan Sheriff Center... cap. 10,300... att. 6,233
Long Beach State... Walter Pyramid... cap. 4,200... att. 2,839
UC Davis... The Pavilion... cap. 7,600... att. 2,178
UC Irvine... The Bren Event Center... cap. 5,000... att. 2,162
UC Riverside... SRC Arena... cap. 3,168... att. 804
UC San Diego... RIMAC Arena... cap. 5,000... att. 664
UC Santa Barbara... UCSB Event Center... cap. 5,600... att. 1,587

Keep in mind, the BWC has had these travel advantages for years... and with the possibility of building bus rivalries. Yet, look at the attendance totals. I think CSUB will gravitate to this norm once Barnes leaves and Runner fans are faced with playing Cal State Someone and UC Whomever every night. BUT you will be in a stable conference.

The rivalries NMSU built with some of the BWC schools in the past were because of our school difference not our similarities. The Thunderdome was rockin' because the major state universities of UNLV and NMSU rolled into town with their national reputations. And, Gaucho Fans were not going to hospitable to their arrival. They wanted to let Rebel and Aggie fans to know that although the confines of the Thunderdome were more intimate, they were more than capable of rattling our respective teams. I do miss the old BWC but those times are long gone.

It will suck for those Runner fans who liked the WAC as their home "if" Hurd can fill CSUB's spot and then some. That only means the WAC will continue to survive and programs like GCU, NMSU, Seattle, Utah Valley, and Cal Baptist will move forward without the Runners in the mix.

Clarity, you like to point out that only two season's ago Hawaii won a game in the NCAA tourney. However, keep in mind, Hawaii did paid a price for their fleeting success with NCAA probation.

No CSUB fans enjoyed the WAC and wanted to stay in it besides maybe a few on here for whatever reason. It seems that is mainly driven by nostalgia. The WAC as it is right now is still the laughing stock of college basketball. Many people don't even know it exists. I didn't really know until I moved to Bakersfield honestly. The reaction on social media has been universally positive for CSUB fans. A lot of fans are very excited to go to road games like myself and have local rivalries. The WAC is done man. NMSU isn't waiting for D2 moveups a second go around. They are probably incensed right now. D2 moveups also take time. They aren't joining this year or next. UCSD isn't joining until 2020 so you're probably looking at 2021 if they get someone in the spring. The WAC is not surviving with these members until 2021. No D1 school is interested at all. Plus does Cal Baptist even count towards an autobid when on transition? I've heard conflicting opinions. You're going to be in for a very rude awakening. NMSU and GCU right now are using their clout to bail as we speak. Thank God we got out. Just hoping the Big West has a clause where if the WAC implodes we can play early which they probably do.

(11-28-2017 08:44 PM)Clarity Wrote:  No CSUB fans enjoyed the WAC and wanted to stay in it besides maybe a few on here for whatever reason. It seems that is mainly driven by nostalgia. The WAC as it is right now is still the laughing stock of college basketball. Many people don't even know it exists. I didn't really know until I moved to Bakersfield honestly. The reaction on social media has been universally positive for CSUB fans. A lot of fans are very excited to go to road games like myself and have local rivalries. The WAC is done man. NMSU isn't waiting for D2 moveups a second go around. They are probably incensed right now. D2 moveups also take time. They aren't joining this year or next. UCSD isn't joining until 2020 so you're probably looking at 2021 if they get someone in the spring. The WAC is not surviving with these members until 2021. No D1 school is interested at all. Plus does Cal Baptist even count towards an autobid when on transition? I've heard conflicting opinions. You're going to be in for a very rude awakening. NMSU and GCU right now are using their clout to bail as we speak. Thank God we got out.

NMSU is tied to its' football program. Our AD won't make a move unless he absolutely has to for basketball preservation. With a conference move, comes a financial cost. NMSU doesn't want to pay more exit and entrance fees than needed. CSUB's move has put NMSU on more unstable ground than it would like but our AD is trying to shop for a home for our football program right now. Possibilities "might" open up after the next round of TV contracts within the next few years. If football is still stuck as an independent in four or five years, then I see Moccia focusing on improving NMSU's basketball situation "exclusively" i.e Horizon, Summit, MVC, BSC... or staying in the WAC if Hurd makes the right moves. I think Moccia would rather stand pat until the football situation is cleared up but we will see how much damage CSUB caused for the WAC with this move.

Clarity, the Chicken Little routine is getting old. The WAC is no different than other conferences with challenges. The Atlantic Sun and the Summit are two that have similar issues as well. The WAC has survived because they have an autobid. No conference out west wants to lose a western autobid. It is more likely that the conference will survive.

CSUB would never have gotten into the Big West on their own. UCSD has a much better academic reputation and San Diego is a more appealing market than Bakersfield. The Big West could have added CSUB for the 2018-2019 season, but they chose not to. Why is that? This was a package deal that the Cal State schools forced. CSUB was never going to be a popular add with the Big West and their fans.

Everyone thinks they have sources, but unless you are talking to the decision makers it is just speculation. I have a couple of sources with the UCLA athletic department and they had no idea that Jim Mora was going to be fired. Unless you are talking with a decision maker, you don’t have a reliable source. It is just speculation.

(11-28-2017 08:44 PM)Clarity Wrote:  No CSUB fans enjoyed the WAC and wanted to stay in it besides maybe a few on here for whatever reason. It seems that is mainly driven by nostalgia. The WAC as it is right now is still the laughing stock of college basketball. Many people don't even know it exists. I didn't really know until I moved to Bakersfield honestly. The reaction on social media has been universally positive for CSUB fans. A lot of fans are very excited to go to road games like myself and have local rivalries. The WAC is done man. NMSU isn't waiting for D2 moveups a second go around. They are probably incensed right now. D2 moveups also take time. They aren't joining this year or next. UCSD isn't joining until 2020 so you're probably looking at 2021 if they get someone in the spring. The WAC is not surviving with these members until 2021. No D1 school is interested at all. Plus does Cal Baptist even count towards an autobid when on transition? I've heard conflicting opinions. You're going to be in for a very rude awakening. NMSU and GCU right now are using their clout to bail as we speak. Thank God we got out. Just hoping the Big West has a clause where if the WAC implodes we can play early which they probably do.

I’ve been to every big west gym except for Hawaii and Rivertucky. I like the pyramid and the thunder dome was awesome 20+ years ago. Gyms are fine, don’t bother me, except for maybe Daniel Larusso Event Center in the Valley, which honestly has no business as a D1 facility.

I get that you’re stoked, I have my reasons for being less enthused, and it isn’t just nostalgia. The AD himself said it was bittersweet at the presser.

What I’m not down with is trashing the WAC on the way out the door, which you seem intent on doing.

Ziggy said it was bittersweet because the WAC gave CSUB a home when nobody else would. I'm not trashing the WAC, I'm pointing out the realities that it's not going to be around for much longer. It is sad but that's D1 athletics for you. It's being realistic.