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I was told Garrett Campbell would be back next year, due to a grey shirt, for whatever it's worth. Maybe that's old news too. Sorry if it is.

While the OL is far from dominant, at least it has held its own against some of the lesser defenses in the conference. We had close to 200 yards on the ground against Temple and over 200 yards in the 2 games prior to that (SMU and Tulane). The offense is just so inconsistent - from penalties in key situations, bad throws by Moore, missed FGs, bizarre/unimaginative play calling at times, etc. It just all adds up to not being able to put up enough points, especially against teams with good offenses.

(11-13-2017 11:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 11:15 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 10:14 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 08:54 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 06:16 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  Kinne also pointed out that he is a legacy player and joins Woodside as the second legacy player on the O-line.

So as far as offensive line recruits go, we have:

Colin Woodside
Jeremy Cooper
Dylan O'Quinn (more likely than not he ends up on the line)
Mick Oakes

That's pure Yikesville right now...3/4 are two to three year projects and the other looks like he'll need some serious coaching.

Yep. Those are largely 3 year cross fingers and hope and see guys if they are even still here at that time.

Even scarier since there is not a ton in the tank at OL after all of the older guys on this patchwork line move on after this season.

FWIW, the hype around the terribleness of our OL has been much overdone. A few days ago BCL posted a breakdown of stats for UC, and IIRC our OL is top 30 with respect to sacks allowed.

That said, there is most definitely room for improvement as our team rushing stats are quite low. This is due to a few factors - we're ALWAYS in the hole score wise (which makes the sacks allowed stat even more impressive since we're one dimensional in games), the staff's stubbornness/ loyalty to Boone (and rushing him up the gut), natural time it takes for a unit to gel. Since we've started going with more Doaks we've seen some improvement in rushing outcomes.

We're losing Big Country, but other than that we're retaining most of the OL. Turns out Coach Crook is the MVP of the current staff. With the potential infusion of some (hopefully quality & ready to go) JUCO talent we could potentially see even more improvement next year.

Sacks allowed is a terrible metric to use in judging a line, because it doesn't take into account average time to release and pass attempt rate. Our line is not a Top 30 unit. Also, we lose Stuer, Neihaus, Campbell, and Calhoun, all of whom have started at least two games this year along with our Left Tackle...

Oh my Lord we apparently have fans who think this OLine is not bad.

It's serviceable at best against crappy teams. There is that, I suppose.

(11-13-2017 12:14 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Oh my Lord we apparently have fans who think this OLine is not bad.

It's serviceable at best against crappy teams. There is that, I suppose.

"Serviceable against crappy teams" sounds quite accurate. Our standards should be much higher than competitive with the Temples and Tulanes. I'm scared ****less about the future of our O-line if we don't bring in more recruits and JUCOs to help us while the underclassmen develop. Don't we have 3 walk-ons that are OL starters?

We might not see a winning season until Fickell's 4th year if that doesn't improve quickly.

Should also worry us that the level of JUCO OL we can attract is generally not an upgrade in year #1 if ever. UC football has historically not had much success at that position in the JUCO ranks. I can think of a couple that were decent out of all the ones we have tried since Minter. It's only a fix here if you have a dumpster fire on your hands and need an extinguisherr ASAP. We do and we do.

(11-13-2017 12:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Should also worry us that the level of JUCO OL we can attract is generally not an upgrade in year #1 if ever. UC football has historically not had much success at that position in the JUCO ranks. I can think of a couple that were decent out of all the ones we have tried since Minter. It's only a fix here if you have a dumpster fire on your hands and need an extinguisherr ASAP. We do and we do.

Sadly, yes to this.

(11-13-2017 11:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 11:15 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 10:14 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 08:54 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-12-2017 06:16 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  Kinne also pointed out that he is a legacy player and joins Woodside as the second legacy player on the O-line.

So as far as offensive line recruits go, we have:

Colin Woodside
Jeremy Cooper
Dylan O'Quinn (more likely than not he ends up on the line)
Mick Oakes

That's pure Yikesville right now...3/4 are two to three year projects and the other looks like he'll need some serious coaching.

Yep. Those are largely 3 year cross fingers and hope and see guys if they are even still here at that time.

Even scarier since there is not a ton in the tank at OL after all of the older guys on this patchwork line move on after this season.

FWIW, the hype around the terribleness of our OL has been much overdone. A few days ago BCL posted a breakdown of stats for UC, and IIRC our OL is top 30 with respect to sacks allowed.

That said, there is most definitely room for improvement as our team rushing stats are quite low. This is due to a few factors - we're ALWAYS in the hole score wise (which makes the sacks allowed stat even more impressive since we're one dimensional in games), the staff's stubbornness/ loyalty to Boone (and rushing him up the gut), natural time it takes for a unit to gel. Since we've started going with more Doaks we've seen some improvement in rushing outcomes.

We're losing Big Country, but other than that we're retaining most of the OL. Turns out Coach Crook is the MVP of the current staff. With the potential infusion of some (hopefully quality & ready to go) JUCO talent we could potentially see even more improvement next year.

Sacks allowed is a terrible metric to use in judging a line, because it doesn't take into account average time to release and pass attempt rate. Our line is not a Top 30 unit. Also, we lose Stuer, Neihaus, Campbell, and Calhoun, all of whom have started at least two games this year along with our Left Tackle...

With all due respect there are plenty of metrics to account for the variables you're referring to, and those adjusted rates only further confirm that the present OL is actually good at pass protection. The adjusted sake rate has our OL as the 8th best unit in the nation. When looking at passing downs it slips to 18th best. By all measures Coach Crook has worked wonders with this personnel. All of which leaves me hopeful for a future with kids hand selected, and groomed by him. Again, it's quite obvious that he's among the better hires on the staff.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

As you'll note when looking at the FI numbers....we're weak on run blocking. So, it's not all rosy - obviously. But to out of hand discount the unit isn't consistent with analysis.






mc

Is football outsiders Bearcatmark approved?

Because what the recruiting forum is missing is a kenpom style discussion

(11-13-2017 04:51 PM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 11:19 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 11:15 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 10:14 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(11-13-2017 08:54 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  That's pure Yikesville right now...3/4 are two to three year projects and the other looks like he'll need some serious coaching.

Yep. Those are largely 3 year cross fingers and hope and see guys if they are even still here at that time.

Even scarier since there is not a ton in the tank at OL after all of the older guys on this patchwork line move on after this season.

FWIW, the hype around the terribleness of our OL has been much overdone. A few days ago BCL posted a breakdown of stats for UC, and IIRC our OL is top 30 with respect to sacks allowed.

That said, there is most definitely room for improvement as our team rushing stats are quite low. This is due to a few factors - we're ALWAYS in the hole score wise (which makes the sacks allowed stat even more impressive since we're one dimensional in games), the staff's stubbornness/ loyalty to Boone (and rushing him up the gut), natural time it takes for a unit to gel. Since we've started going with more Doaks we've seen some improvement in rushing outcomes.

We're losing Big Country, but other than that we're retaining most of the OL. Turns out Coach Crook is the MVP of the current staff. With the potential infusion of some (hopefully quality & ready to go) JUCO talent we could potentially see even more improvement next year.

Sacks allowed is a terrible metric to use in judging a line, because it doesn't take into account average time to release and pass attempt rate. Our line is not a Top 30 unit. Also, we lose Stuer, Neihaus, Campbell, and Calhoun, all of whom have started at least two games this year along with our Left Tackle...

With all due respect there are plenty of metrics to account for the variables you're referring to, and those adjusted rates only further confirm that the present OL is actually good at pass protection. The adjusted sake rate has our OL as the 8th best unit in the nation. When looking at passing downs it slips to 18th best. By all measures Coach Crook has worked wonders with this personnel. All of which leaves me hopeful for a future with kids hand selected, and groomed by him. Again, it's quite obvious that he's among the better hires on the staff.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaol

As you'll note when looking at the FI numbers....we're weak on run blocking. So, it's not all rosy - obviously. But to out of hand discount the unit isn't consistent with analysis.

Does that measure account for "good" pass protection by rating sacks only, or does it include pressures and pockets being non-existent? I don't believe they do, in fact, I believe you'll see most of the "adjusted" sack rate accounts for level of competition and overall passing rate with no other metrics in play, such as time in pocket, pressures, scramble rate, average time to pass, etc. Moore is consistently running for his damn life and throwing balls away constantly. I normally am 100% behind analytics, but no way in hell is our O-line anywhere near where you're saying they are. Crook has done wonders with what he had (3 semi-out-of-shape walk-on interior lineman and a good to great LT), but to say that this unit is even average is just completely disregarding what is actually happening on the field.

MC...do as you please but if there was only one poster on this board I'd listen closely to when it comes to these types of topics, it would probably be BearcatMan.

BTW, the closest I have come to wearing a UC helmet is Ragpicker's at a tailgate. Was worth it, though. Great dip and seven seven's.

Has it been confirmed that Oakes I'd a preferred walk on? He hasn't shown up on the 247 recruit listing yet.

(11-14-2017 09:26 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Has it been confirmed that Oakes I'd a preferred walk on? He hasn't shown up on the 247 recruit listing yet.

A poster earlier did mention that he was a PWO...I'd seriously question our staff if they're giving offers to someone who can't make an impact for two to three years.

Brennan Armstrong, QB out of Shelby HS in north central Ohio just decommitted from Minnesota and I think we were in on him at least a little bit before his initial commitment. Would be worth another look, kid's a stud and definitely fits our spread/RPO offense. Shelby is 12-0 and has had running clocks in every game, and he's a big reason why...I believe he's close to 2,500 passing and 1,000 rushing and has over 40 combined TDs this year.

Also, Chris Oats is looking like he's gone now. Officials to MSU (against PSU) and Oklahoma (against TCU) in consecutive weeks...I don't know how a kid turns down those environments/programs at this point.

(11-14-2017 09:58 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Also, Chris Oats is looking like he's gone now. Officials to MSU (against PSU) and Oklahoma (against TCU) in consecutive weeks...I don't know how a kid turns down those environments/programs at this point.

He's been long gone. Ship sailed a while ago apparently. Too bad.



mc

(11-14-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Brennan Armstrong, QB out of Shelby HS in north central Ohio just decommitted from Minnesota and I think we were in on him at least a little bit before his initial commitment. Would be worth another look, kid's a stud and definitely fits our spread/RPO offense. Shelby is 12-0 and has had running clocks in every game, and he's a big reason why...I believe he's close to 2,500 passing and 1,000 rushing and has over 40 combined TDs this year.

We essentially have 2 QB commits at this point (Bryant and Rodgers). HIGHLY unlikely we pursue.



mc

(11-14-2017 10:27 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Brennan Armstrong, QB out of Shelby HS in north central Ohio just decommitted from Minnesota and I think we were in on him at least a little bit before his initial commitment. Would be worth another look, kid's a stud and definitely fits our spread/RPO offense. Shelby is 12-0 and has had running clocks in every game, and he's a big reason why...I believe he's close to 2,500 passing and 1,000 rushing and has over 40 combined TDs this year.

We essentially have 2 QB commits at this point (Bryant and Rodgers). HIGHLY unlikely we pursue.

I think Rodgers very clearly ends up at WR unless something happens to Bryant or he isn't what he looks to be on film, and Armstrong is better than either of them IMO (but I'm partial to lefties ).

(11-14-2017 10:26 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 09:58 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Also, Chris Oats is looking like he's gone now. Officials to MSU (against PSU) and Oklahoma (against TCU) in consecutive weeks...I don't know how a kid turns down those environments/programs at this point.

He's been long gone. Ship sailed a while ago apparently. Too bad.



mc

We have 5-6 slots still left open. We will be taking a Grad Transfer or a JUCO at LB to even out the class distribution for the unit.

(11-14-2017 10:35 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 10:27 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 09:49 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  Brennan Armstrong, QB out of Shelby HS in north central Ohio just decommitted from Minnesota and I think we were in on him at least a little bit before his initial commitment. Would be worth another look, kid's a stud and definitely fits our spread/RPO offense. Shelby is 12-0 and has had running clocks in every game, and he's a big reason why...I believe he's close to 2,500 passing and 1,000 rushing and has over 40 combined TDs this year.

We essentially have 2 QB commits at this point (Bryant and Rodgers). HIGHLY unlikely we pursue.

I think Rodgers very clearly ends up at WR unless something happens to Bryant or he isn't what he looks to be on film, and Armstrong is better than either of them IMO (but I'm partial to lefties ).

247 has him cbd to Kentucky.

(11-14-2017 09:26 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Has it been confirmed that Oakes I'd a preferred walk on? He hasn't shown up on the 247 recruit listing yet.

As of today he still doesn't even have a player profile on anything but hudl.

I've heard it's not certain he is actually a PWO. The confusion on this is strange this many days after he committed. Really hope they are not allotting one of the 25 to this much of a project even if he is related to a staff member.