RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:48 AM)Kronke Wrote: Anything that ends up with less people being covered (even if it's of their own volition) is going to be framed by alt-leftists as "cuts", even though there are explicit guarantees for those with pre-existing conditions in the bill.
Not only that, less people covered likely means rate increases to cover the short fall.
Since money is all that some people care about.
No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
Jimmy is correct. Who cares about the money issues for the cost of health care. Saving lives are more important than the money. That is the main point about Jimmy's rant. Jimmy does care. Many of these politicians on both sides really do not care, and go for political points. Jimmy blasted both sides on this issue.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
Quote:Everyone has "healthcare". What we're really talking about is insurance/coverage.
You are correct. Clearly I wasn't talking about the healthcare itself but the coverage.
Quote:I want everyone to have insurance -- conditionally. First, if they want it. Some people choose NOT to purchase health coverage. That is their right.
And it still is. Not sure what you have a problem with.
No. They're punished if they choose not carry insurance.
Quote:Secondly, I don't mind helping people who need help. But I definitely mind giving my money to those who can do for themselves but choose not to.
As a teenager I worked to put myself through college. I didn't take student loans. I found a job that provided tuition reimbursement. I've been gainfully employed the bulk of my entire life. I did what I had to do to make sure I could take care of me and mine.
I don't disagree. We will always have people however who cheat the system. We cannot govern in a way where we refuse to implement things however because a few will cheat the system. That just isn't a viable way to govern.
Quote:Unfortunately, our political class has screwed up our primary and secondary education system. Millions of children won't be able to read or write at a functionally literate level. Though they are able-bodied and bright-minded, they won't be prepared to function successfully and independently in society.
Now you are getting off track here. What millions of children who are functionally literate? Do you have a link for that?
Sure. I'll provide a few links at the end of your quote.
Quote:On top of that, the War on Poverty escalated the welfare state which had a horrendous impact on the nuclear family. We know via empirical data that a child raised in a two-parent home is much more likely to graduate high school, to be able to read and write, to avoid drugs and avoid criminal activity.
Again you are off topic. However, the war on Poverty actually cut poverty in half before the systems in place began to be gutted. Look it up for yourself.
I'll say this: It's not quite fair that you ask me for a link to back up my assertions and then turn around and tell me to look up your assertions for myself.
Quote:We have doomed too many generations to broken homes and a lack of an education.
Yes we have. Much of it from policies where we incarcerated their parents through mandatory minimums and bogus drug charges.
No, sir. I looked this up myself:
Quote:According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,220,300 adults were incarcerated in US federal and state prisons, and county jails in 2013 – about 0.91% of adults (1 in 110) in the U.S. resident population.
Surely you're not suggesting that 0.91% (less than 1%) of the population is the cause of children being raised in a home without both (or even one) parents.
And of that less-than-1% of the adult population the percentage of people incarcerated due to bogus drug charges is statistically zero. So that's really a non-issue. Given that it's statistically zero and a non-issue, we really shouldn't be devoting any time toward that when there are other factors that impact more people.
Quote:And now, the government that gave us those scourges are asking us to pay for its failure to prepare people for self-sufficiency -- whether it's EBT, healthcare, phones, cars, housing, etc.
This is what happens when the government ignores certain segments of society for too long.
Of course, people need housing and food. We just have very different ideas about the best way to provide those.
Yes, we do have very different ideas. Millions of Americans think able-bodies people should provide for themselves while millions of others think other people should provide for them.
Quote:Charity means we [i[choose[/i] to help others. We're OK with that.
Tell that to the pastor in Houston.
Not sure what that means. But it does serve as a convenient segue. Remember the meme from Harvey where the hurrican victims were thanking God but the caption said it was the government?
Quote:In a disaster, churches don’t just hold bake sales to raise money or collect clothes to send to victims; faith-based organizations are integral partners in state and federal disaster relief efforts. They have specific roles and a sophisticated communication and coordination network to make sure their efforts don’t overlap or get in each others’ way.
Quote:Indeed, it’s been estimated that 19% of high school graduates fall into that category.
Quote:About 3.6 million students are expected to graduate from high school in 2017–18
Using 3.6 million annual graduates not adjusting into the past or future with 19% illiteracy rate among graduates, that's 684,000 graduates per year.
So, at any given year in an average high school there are 2,736,000 kids in high school (9th, 10th, 11th, 12th grades) that are functionally illiterate.
684,000 graduates this year, the same the next, and the next and the next etc...
Over a 10 year period you have 6.84 million adults who are functionally illiterate. And each subsequent year you continually add to that number.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 02:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote: Not only that, less people covered likely means rate increases to cover the short fall.
Since money is all that some people care about.
No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
Why? Normally kids enter college at 18. Four years for a degree, five if your stretch it.
I understand each case is unique, but I'm speaking generally.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 02:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote: Jimmy is correct. Who cares about the money issues for the cost of health care.
No, Jimmy is an idiot.
Who cares about the money? The people providing the care, for one. There has to be incentive for the best and brightest to put themselves through 8 years of school and $250,000 into debt. Give "Medicaid for all" and great, everyone's "covered", until you realize that reimbursement rates are so low that no current doctors will accept it, and prospective doctors will no longer make the investment.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 03:14 PM by Kronke.)
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 03:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:
(09-20-2017 02:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote: Jimmy is correct. Who cares about the money issues for the cost of health care.
No, Jimmy is an idiot.
Who cares about the money? The people providing the care, for one. There has to be incentive for the best and brightest to put themselves through 8 years of school and $250,000 into debt. Give "Medicaid for all" and great, everyone's "covered", until you realize that reimbursement rates are so low that no current doctors will accept it, and prospective doctors will no longer make the investment.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 02:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote: Not only that, less people covered likely means rate increases to cover the short fall.
Since money is all that some people care about.
No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
So?
I was kicked off parents plan at 21 and was playing rugby, pretty important to have some kind of insurance. So, what's a poor schoolgirl to do? I went on down to the local brokers office and got some kind of a cheap plan. Wow.
You suggesting young people can't get insurance unless they're on Mommy and Daddys plan? That none of them had insurance prior to 2010?!?
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 02:37 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
Quote:Everyone has "healthcare". What we're really talking about is insurance/coverage.
You are correct. Clearly I wasn't talking about the healthcare itself but the coverage.
Quote:I want everyone to have insurance -- conditionally. First, if they want it. Some people choose NOT to purchase health coverage. That is their right.
And it still is. Not sure what you have a problem with.
No. They're punished if they choose not carry insurance.
Quote:Secondly, I don't mind helping people who need help. But I definitely mind giving my money to those who can do for themselves but choose not to.
As a teenager I worked to put myself through college. I didn't take student loans. I found a job that provided tuition reimbursement. I've been gainfully employed the bulk of my entire life. I did what I had to do to make sure I could take care of me and mine.
I don't disagree. We will always have people however who cheat the system. We cannot govern in a way where we refuse to implement things however because a few will cheat the system. That just isn't a viable way to govern.
Quote:Unfortunately, our political class has screwed up our primary and secondary education system. Millions of children won't be able to read or write at a functionally literate level. Though they are able-bodied and bright-minded, they won't be prepared to function successfully and independently in society.
Now you are getting off track here. What millions of children who are functionally literate? Do you have a link for that?
Sure. I'll provide a few links at the end of your quote.
Quote:On top of that, the War on Poverty escalated the welfare state which had a horrendous impact on the nuclear family. We know via empirical data that a child raised in a two-parent home is much more likely to graduate high school, to be able to read and write, to avoid drugs and avoid criminal activity.
Again you are off topic. However, the war on Poverty actually cut poverty in half before the systems in place began to be gutted. Look it up for yourself.
I'll say this: It's not quite fair that you ask me for a link to back up my assertions and then turn around and tell me to look up your assertions for myself.
Quote:We have doomed too many generations to broken homes and a lack of an education.
Yes we have. Much of it from policies where we incarcerated their parents through mandatory minimums and bogus drug charges.
No, sir. I looked this up myself:
Quote:According to the US Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), 2,220,300 adults were incarcerated in US federal and state prisons, and county jails in 2013 – about 0.91% of adults (1 in 110) in the U.S. resident population.
Surely you're not suggesting that 0.91% (less than 1%) of the population is the cause of children being raised in a home without both (or even one) parents.
And of that less-than-1% of the adult population the percentage of people incarcerated due to bogus drug charges is statistically zero. So that's really a non-issue. Given that it's statistically zero and a non-issue, we really shouldn't be devoting any time toward that when there are other factors that impact more people.
Quote:And now, the government that gave us those scourges are asking us to pay for its failure to prepare people for self-sufficiency -- whether it's EBT, healthcare, phones, cars, housing, etc.
This is what happens when the government ignores certain segments of society for too long.
Of course, people need housing and food. We just have very different ideas about the best way to provide those.
Yes, we do have very different ideas. Millions of Americans think able-bodies people should provide for themselves while millions of others think other people should provide for them.
Quote:Charity means we [i[choose[/i] to help others. We're OK with that.
Tell that to the pastor in Houston.
Not sure what that means. But it does serve as a convenient segue. Remember the meme from Harvey where the hurrican victims were thanking God but the caption said it was the government?
Quote:In a disaster, churches don’t just hold bake sales to raise money or collect clothes to send to victims; faith-based organizations are integral partners in state and federal disaster relief efforts. They have specific roles and a sophisticated communication and coordination network to make sure their efforts don’t overlap or get in each others’ way.
Quote:Indeed, it’s been estimated that 19% of high school graduates fall into that category.
Quote:About 3.6 million students are expected to graduate from high school in 2017–18
Using 3.6 million annual graduates not adjusting into the past or future with 19% illiteracy rate among graduates, that's 684,000 graduates per year.
So, at any given year in an average high school there are 2,736,000 kids in high school (9th, 10th, 11th, 12th grades) that are functionally illiterate.
684,000 graduates this year, the same the next, and the next and the next etc...
Over a 10 year period you have 6.84 million adults who are functionally illiterate. And each subsequent year you continually add to that number.
And those are the ones that freaking graduate... What are the chances the ones that drop out are somehow exceeding those literacy #'s for the "graduates"? We're talking millions a year now. Failed system in far too many places.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 12:34 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Has it even been scored yet? How anyone can stick up for this travesty is beyond me.
You must be talking about Obamacare. Screwed millions of working families to benefit the few that could get great care anyway at most hospital without it . There already have had laws protecting the indigent.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 03:13 PM)Kronke Wrote:
(09-20-2017 02:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote: Jimmy is correct. Who cares about the money issues for the cost of health care.
No, Jimmy is an idiot.
Who cares about the money? The people providing the care, for one. There has to be incentive for the best and brightest to put themselves through 8 years of school and $250,000 into debt. Give "Medicaid for all" and great, everyone's "covered", until you realize that reimbursement rates are so low that no current doctors will accept it, and prospective doctors will no longer make the investment.
I'm guessing Davidst thinks the money for this is coming from "the government"..
And Jimmy is perfectly able to cut a check of whatever size he'd prefer and send that pup on in. Pony up, moron.
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 02:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote: Not only that, less people covered likely means rate increases to cover the short fall.
Since money is all that some people care about.
No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
Not buying that your daughter would've had no option for health insurance without the ACA but she might've had to pay out of her own pocket for it.
Most colleges offer health insurance coverage for students who were not covered on their parents's policy that is very affordable. In fact colleges generally require that student's carry this coverage unless they provide written proof of other coverage.
(This post was last modified: 09-20-2017 09:32 PM by mptnstr@44.)
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 09:55 AM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 09:48 AM)Kronke Wrote: Anything that ends up with less people being covered (even if it's of their own volition) is going to be framed by alt-leftists as "cuts", even though there are explicit guarantees for those with pre-existing conditions in the bill.
Quote:Bill Cassidy responds to Jimmy Kimmel: Obamacare overhaul 'absolutely' protects pre-existing condition patients
Not only that, less people covered likely means rate increases to cover the short fall.
Since money is all that some people care about.
As opposed too all the rate increases we've seen since the un-Affordable Healthcare Act was passed to subsidize the less than 5%, 3.5% to be exact based on projections for this year, of Americans participating in it? It's even less if you base it off the actual figure of those enrolled up to June.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2017 12:26 AM by TigerBlue4Ever.)
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 09:28 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:
(09-20-2017 02:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote: No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
Not buying that your daughter would've had no option for health insurance without the ACA but she might've had to pay out of her own pocket for it.
Most colleges offer health insurance coverage for students who were not covered on their parents's policy that is very affordable. In fact colleges generally require that student's carry this coverage unless they provide written proof of other coverage.
I questioned his other 2 reasons, and he just ignored it. He's a teacher in Texas, so he has TRS and pays next to nothing for it. The only way his premiums went up "300%" in the 8 years before Obamacare is if they went from maybe $10/month to $40/month. Oh, the humanity!
That is the facade he hides behind as he praises Obamacare -- a system he isn't subject to or harmed by.
(This post was last modified: 09-21-2017 12:30 AM by Kronke.)
RE: Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
(09-20-2017 09:28 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:
(09-20-2017 02:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:35 PM)umbluegray Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:26 PM)Fitbud Wrote:
(09-20-2017 01:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote: No, most people in a bad situation care about having coverage for themselves and their Families that they can
A. Afford to have/keep
B. Afford to USE.
That's not "just care about money", but trying to NOT show up at the ER, trying NOT to get sick, then pursue "care". Trying NOT to have to pass on meds, or Dr. visits cause they either can't afford the mortgage sized premiums or can't affords the meds at Retail prices due to no Ins.
Those are real life problems that don't really affect a snot like a Jimma Kimmel, and ironically that doesn't affect the "poor" or near poor either. Nor does it affect those on the public dime either through employment or the dole.
Who's left?
It smacks the middle class HARD, right across the face. And that's an awful lot of people.
zerOcare might well be the worst piece of legislation I've seen in my lifetime. Can't really see a more destructive example of flawed public policy anywhere else.
I'm part of the middle class and I wanted Obamacare for a lot of reasons.
1. My premiums had gone up 300% from 2000 to 2008 before Obama ever took office.
2. I had a daughter who was going to start college that would not have been covered under the previous plan.
3. I had friends and family that didn't have health insurance that would be covered under Obamacare.
Prior to ObamaCare, full-time students were allowed to remain on parent's coverage until the age of 23.
You are correct but she is now 24 and hasn't graduated from college yet.
Not buying that your daughter would've had no option for health insurance without the ACA but she might've had to pay out of her own pocket for it.
Most colleges offer health insurance coverage for students who were not covered on their parents's policy that is very affordable. In fact colleges generally require that student's carry this coverage unless they provide written proof of other coverage.
I never said she had no option. I simply said I was in favor of Obamacare because my daughter would be covered until 26.
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Cassidy Lied To His Face About Obamacare Repeal
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