(09-05-2017 09:11 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Callahan 2010 141.3

I also blame myself for Cluley

Callahan? I don't remember him at all (and he is relatively high on your list). Which games did he play in?

We all thought that Cluley was going to have a breakout senior season; unfortunately we were all wrong. Friends of mine will tell you that I was calling for McKee to replace Cluley near the end last year, in order to get valuable experience for this year (remember, McKee was the next best option last year; the jury is still out (on this board, anyway) on whether he is the best option this year. I don't think we will know until the Stony Brook game).

Can you pull these same stats for all the QB's prior to 2002? That would prove NJAlum's contention (which I agree with) that the QB's were better 'way back when'. I am curious where my personal favorite (Shawn Knight) would come out.

(09-05-2017 11:15 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 09:11 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Callahan 2010 141.3

I also blame myself for Cluley

Callahan? I don't remember him at all (and he is relatively high on your list). Which games did he play in?

Really? 2010 starter who is on the short list of the toughest players ever to don the green and gold. When we were out of QBs against Georgia Southern in the playoffs, he hid a broken ankle in the first quarter and finished the game knowing we had no replacement. Recovered from two separated shoulders during the season.

And pushed for 5 years for his opportunity. Mike is one of my 3 favorite Tribe athletes of all time. His dad still attends games.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

A lot of folks have coulda, woulda, shoulda about Ortiz - I've always wondered what Graham could have been if he didn't lose an entire season to a knee injury. He wasn't flashy, but he really ran our system well.

Thanks for the history lesson guys! It's one of the reasons why I love this Board ... the institutional memory of the posters is awesome.

I think the Georgia Southern game caused some of us to intentionally delete that entire season from our memory banks, even though it was a great, great regular season.

:-)

(09-06-2017 06:23 AM)wml33t Wrote:  A lot of folks have coulda, woulda, shoulda about Ortiz - I've always wondered what Graham could have been if he didn't lose an entire season to a knee injury. He wasn't flashy, but he really ran our system well.

IMO, the coulda, woulda, shoulda injuries were to Cook and Paulus.

That season was fun because with the exception of an early game (VMI, I think?) and the Richmond game (that one was great), they were all very closely contested games. Wasn't that year the UNH game where we just ran the ball the entire time? We hit a #1 national ranking with two starting QBs suffering injuries and switching around (I choose to gloss over the loss to JMU where they literally did not complete a single pass). That season should remind us what is possible, even if the offense doesn't quite hit it's stride.

(09-06-2017 07:06 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 06:23 AM)wml33t Wrote:  A lot of folks have coulda, woulda, shoulda about Ortiz - I've always wondered what Graham could have been if he didn't lose an entire season to a knee injury. He wasn't flashy, but he really ran our system well.

IMO, the coulda, woulda, shoulda injuries were to Cook and Paulus.

Amen on both of these players. Two extremely talented QBs in position to do some really special things. I still hate UNC Cheat and VMI. Paulus injured on an unflagged late hit and Cook injured in a game W&M was going to win without breaking a sweat. I was at both games. The Tribe could never beat these "schools" often enough and by enough points to erase those memories. Since my memory isn't what it used to be, why do i still remember the painful stuff?

Mike Cook was so good. Perhaps the closest thing to Lang Campbell, although Shawn Knight was also really close. The Paulus injury was worse though because it was a completely cheap classless play that had nothing to do with the actual flow of the game.

As for Callahan, he was a warrior. That 2010 regular season including the great HC clash with a top 5 Delaware team was a great season. My second favorite after 2009 in recent memory. Rocco's research shows me that Jake Phillips was also a little better than I remember. Looking forward to Saturday.

(09-06-2017 07:39 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Mike Cook was so good. Perhaps the closest thing to Lang Campbell, although Shawn Knight was also really close. The Paulus injury was worse though because it was a completely cheap classless play that had nothing to do with the actual flow of the game.

As for Callahan, he was a warrior. That 2010 regular season including the great HC clash with a top 5 Delaware team was a great season. My second favorite after 2009 in recent memory. Rocco's research shows me that Jake Phillips was also a little better than I remember. Looking forward to Saturday.

He was a real good QB. Led a ridiculous comeback against Northeastern early in his career as I recall. Unfortunately his career was probably overshadowed by a 6-pick game to end his career against Richmond.

(09-05-2017 11:15 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 09:11 PM)Rocco Wrote:  Callahan 2010 141.3

I also blame myself for Cluley

Callahan? I don't remember him at all (and he is relatively high on your list). Which games did he play in?

We all thought that Cluley was going to have a breakout senior season; unfortunately we were all wrong. Friends of mine will tell you that I was calling for McKee to replace Cluley near the end last year, in order to get valuable experience for this year (remember, McKee was the next best option last year; the jury is still out (on this board, anyway) on whether he is the best option this year. I don't think we will know until the Stony Brook game).

Can you pull these same stats for all the QB's prior to 2002? That would prove NJAlum's contention (which I agree with) that the QB's were better 'way back when'. I am curious where my personal favorite (Shawn Knight) would come out.

It's not readily available prior to 2002. The NCAA has stats/scanned copies of stat sheets with the top 50 players but only back to 1990 for 1-AA.

Hakel 1990: 137.1 (11th nationally)
Hakel 1991: 146.6 (10th nationally)
Knight 1992: 158.6 (6th nationally- Steve McNair was a beast that year)
Knight 1993: 204.6 (led the country and still holds the record for 1-AA efficiency- some guy named Kurt Warner was 9th)
Knight 1994: 151.3 (8th nationally)
Bryne 1995: 112.4
Cook 1996: 142.5 (12th nationally)
Fill 1997: 122.4
Cook 1998: 154.6 (6th nationally)
Corley 1999: 141.3 (17th nationally)
Corley 2000: 133.7 (I remember hating Corley a lot this season)
Corley 2001: 151.5 (8th nationally, and I remember hating Corley a lot less this season. Though I wonder what happened to the 1-AA leader that year, a dude named Tony Romo)


I'll also point out that rating doesn't take strength of opponents into account. You're going to have to pay me to start going back and doing historical adjustments. It's still apples to apples as far as I can tell but it's different kinds of apples. With the exception of 1994 and 1995 (outliers in both directions) you have a pretty consistent level of performance that continued through Campbell but fell after that and never got back up. The average rating during this period was 146.4, or a shade below Hakel's 1991 season. The average exceeds every season from 2002-present by QBs not named Lang Campbell. (This is why I get amused when people say Lang was pedestrian as a junior.) I'll leave it to the people far smarter than I am to determine if this is strategy from JL or if he's Charlie from Flowers For Algernon, but I'm concerned that this is going on at a time when passer efficiency nationally is going up.

(09-06-2017 07:39 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Rocco's research shows me that Jake Phillips was also a little better than I remember. Looking forward to Saturday.

Phillips takes heat (deservedly) for a meltdown against Richmond where he went 20-42 for 204 yards with 0 TDs, 4 sacks and 6 INTs (one of which went for a TD). Somehow this stat line understates just how badly he played that game. Still though the people who say he should have been benched for Archer that year are engaging in Soviet revisionism.

(09-06-2017 09:22 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 11:15 PM)Zorch Wrote:  Can you pull these same stats for all the QB's prior to 2002? That would prove NJ Alum's contention (which I agree with) that the QB's were better 'way back when'. I am curious where my personal favorite (Shawn Knight) would come out.

It's not readily available prior to 2002. The NCAA has stats/scanned copies of stat sheets with the top 50 players but only back to 1990 for 1-AA.

Hakel 1990: 137.1 (11th nationally)
Hakel 1991: 146.6 (10th nationally)
Knight 1992: 158.6 (6th nationally- Steve McNair was a beast that year)
Knight 1993: 204.6 (led the country and still holds the record for 1-AA efficiency- some guy named Kurt Warner was 9th)
Knight 1994: 151.3 (8th nationally)
Bryne 1995: 112.4
Cook 1996: 142.5 (12th nationally)
Fill 1997: 122.4
Cook 1998: 154.6 (6th nationally)
Corley 1999: 141.3 (17th nationally)
Corley 2000: 133.7 (I remember hating Corley a lot this season)
Corley 2001: 151.5 (8th nationally, and I remember hating Corley a lot less this season. Though I wonder what happened to the 1-AA leader that year, a dude named Tony Romo)

I'm concerned that this is going on at a time when passer efficiency nationally is going up.

Great stats, Rocco, thanks!! The data appears to validate the thoughts of us old-timers that QB play really was better in the good old days. I am gratified that my favorite (Knight) did come out looking good in the data. I really liked him!

(09-06-2017 04:16 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 11:15 PM)Zorch Wrote:  Callahan? I don't remember him at all (and he is relatively high on your list). Which games did he play in?

Really? 2010 starter who is on the short list of the toughest players ever to don the green and gold. When we were out of QBs against Georgia Southern in the playoffs, he hid a broken ankle in the first quarter and finished the game knowing we had no replacement. Recovered from two separated shoulders during the season.

Seriously, a broken ankle? I did not know that. I was at that game (and had a close-up view of an official blowing a pass interference call on a long Tribe pass play) and all else I remember is that "the lads played hard" but that we still got our butt kicked. It was very disheartening and even embarrassing in that we were the second ranked team in the playoffs (and had had a bye the week before). To now learn why it was so, well, thanks for removing some of those bad feelings after all these years.

By the way, I do remember that Ga Southern just barely beat their (inferiorly ranked) opponent the week before (it might have even been overtime). I remember really wishing that they had lost that game the week before.

(09-06-2017 07:05 AM)nj alum Wrote:  I think the Georgia Southern game caused some of us to intentionally delete that entire season from our memory banks, even though it was a great, great regular season.

Yes, that is exactly how it is for me. The regular season was great but the playoff game was such a letdown that the file folder for that whole season has been purged from my memory. That is obviously why I don't even remember Callahan even though I saw at least two home games that year.

(09-06-2017 07:06 AM)nj alum Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 06:23 AM)wml33t Wrote:  A lot of folks have coulda, woulda, shoulda about Ortiz - I've always wondered what Graham could have been if he didn't lose an entire season to a knee injury. He wasn't flashy, but he really ran our system well.

IMO, the coulda, woulda, shoulda injuries were to Cook and Paulus.

I completely agree with you and other posters who all have good things to say about Cook. I remember really liking him. My only impressions of Paulus were that he was a transfer from UNC, rode the bench for a year, and when he finally played he got hurt. So, not one of the guys who float to the top when I think of Tribe quarterbacking.

(09-06-2017 07:27 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 07:06 AM)nj alum Wrote:  IMO, the coulda, woulda, shoulda injuries were to Cook and Paulus.

Amen on both of these players. Two extremely talented QBs in position to do some really special things. I still hate UNC Cheat and VMI. Paulus injured on an unflagged late hit and Cook injured in a game W&M was going to win without breaking a sweat. I was at both games. The Tribe could never beat these "schools" often enough and by enough points to erase those memories. Since my memory isn't what it used to be, why do i still remember the painful stuff?

Yes, I also seem to remember the bad games, the bad officiating, etc for longer than I remember the "good" stuff (although I still vividly remember the "great" stuff).

I agree about UNC and VMI. It is great that we don't play VMI anymore. Who needs another 48-0 scrimmage where it seems that we always lose at least one player to injury. I don't like playing UNC because they ALWAYS seem to get the crucial officiating calls (always in their favor, of course) at the crucial times. One football game comes to mind a few years ago and, of course, the NIT basketball game STILL gets my goat every time I think of it.

(09-06-2017 09:27 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 07:39 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Rocco's research shows me that Jake Phillips was also a little better than I remember. Looking forward to Saturday.

Phillips takes heat (deservedly) for a meltdown against Richmond where he went 20-42 for 204 yards with 0 TDs, 4 sacks and 6 INTs (one of which went for a TD). Somehow this stat line understates just how badly he played that game. Still though the people who say he should have been benched for Archer that year are engaging in Soviet revisionism.

See, I only vaguely remember that game because of selective memory shutdown. However, I guarantee you that I was not pleased at the time. Probably kicked the dog, yelled at the kids, and got glares from the wife for two solid weeks after that one.

Okay, after five or six straight posts in this thread (a new record?), I'll shut up for a little while.

(09-06-2017 10:52 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 04:16 AM)Tribe4SF Wrote:  

(09-05-2017 11:15 PM)Zorch Wrote:  Callahan? I don't remember him at all (and he is relatively high on your list). Which games did he play in?

Really? 2010 starter who is on the short list of the toughest players ever to don the green and gold. When we were out of QBs against Georgia Southern in the playoffs, he hid a broken ankle in the first quarter and finished the game knowing we had no replacement. Recovered from two separated shoulders during the season.

Seriously, a broken ankle? I did not know that. I was at that game (and had a close-up view of an official blowing a pass interference call on a long Tribe pass play) and all else I remember is that "the lads played hard" but that we still got our butt kicked. It was very disheartening and even embarrassing in that we were the second ranked team in the playoffs (and had had a bye the week before). To now learn why it was so, well, thanks for removing some of those bad feelings after all these years.

By the way, I do remember that Ga Southern just barely beat their (inferiorly ranked) opponent the week before (it might have even been overtime). I remember really wishing that they had lost that game the week before.

GA Southern beat South Carolina State 41-16 the week prior, and then beat Wofford 23-20 the week after before losing to Delaware in the Semi's. That was their first year with a new coach and the triple option system, so they had some losses early, but they beat App State mid season who was #1, and then didn't lose again until the semis. It sucked to lose, but it was a really good team.

(09-06-2017 11:11 AM)Zorch Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 09:27 AM)Rocco Wrote:  

(09-06-2017 07:39 AM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Rocco's research shows me that Jake Phillips was also a little better than I remember. Looking forward to Saturday.

Phillips takes heat (deservedly) for a meltdown against Richmond where he went 20-42 for 204 yards with 0 TDs, 4 sacks and 6 INTs (one of which went for a TD). Somehow this stat line understates just how badly he played that game. Still though the people who say he should have been benched for Archer that year are engaging in Soviet revisionism.

See, I only vaguely remember that game because of selective memory shutdown. However, I guarantee you that I was not pleased at the time. Probably kicked the dog, yelled at the kids, and got glares from the wife for two solid weeks after that one.

Okay, after five or six straight posts in this thread (a new record?), I'll shut up for a little while.

That was a really rough day to be a Tribe Fan. Lost in OT to Richmond in football and then triple OT to Navy that night.