(08-12-2017 02:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:30 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Whether it takes a couple of years or less, this action pretty much sealed the fate of these Confederate symbols.

So, what will be next in the quest to erase history?

What history did Robert E Lee have with New Orleans? With Charlottesville?

The statues of veneration to Lee are, in many cases, an attempt to erase Lee's history of treason.

Duh. Lee was a Virginian.

(08-12-2017 02:38 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:36 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:32 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:30 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Whether it takes a couple of years or less, this action pretty much sealed the fate of these Confederate symbols.

So, what will be next in the quest to erase history?

What history did Robert E Lee have with New Orleans? With Charlottesville?

The statues of veneration to Lee are, in many cases, an attempt to erase Lee's history of treason.

The only people that agree on Robert E. Lee statues meaning white supremacy...are you and the white supremacists. Complete agreement there. Did you guys shake on it?

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Everyone knows those statues were put up as a symbol of white supremacy.

Not "everyone" is that stupid. Some people actually know history.

There were some put up for that reason.

How does a President, who has no problem attacking his enemies and calling them out by name, suddenly doesn't have the guts to condemn groups by name.

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(08-12-2017 02:42 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  No condemnation of the Klan? No condemnation of the Nazis? Non condemnation of white supremacy/nationalism? While they are claiming his support? Within the context of an active terrorist attack?

Outrageous.

Were they at the rally.
KKK

Nazis

(08-12-2017 02:44 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 12:21 AM)hburg Wrote:  I want to preface this that in no way shape or form should history or statue be erased. I believe it is a travesty and downright terrorist to destroy history. Charlottesville are idiots, just like the rest of them for wanting to remove history. Charlottesville (where UVA sits) has brought this on themselves and now they are center stage for what could become a violent turn in this fight. Both sides resorting to violence are idiots and to egg on each other is also asking for trouble.

Unite the right supposedly had a surprise torch march last night with around a thousand, as they approached the Confederate monument, they surrounded around 40 Antifa. From that points, some fighting breaks out between the two, then Antifa pepper sprays, but not Unite the Right, but themselves. The events in Charlottesville today could be even more dangerous. Here is a video that was shared on Facebook - I do not condone, but want to share.
https://www.facebook.com/augustus.invict...1102888111

The video shows Unite the Right March and at the end their encounter with Antifa.

Robert E. Lee was a traitor and generally a sick man. The statue should be turned to gravel, sand, or anything of any value. But he also died 150+ years ago. There are bigger travesties in the world than leaving it up.

And honestly, many BLM member are also sick and selfish. Many have repeatedly shown that they're willing to put their own selfish interest above that of this great country and humanity in general. The same goes for the alt right/Nazis/white supremacists. They're sick, too.

There's a point where I don't have a great deal of tolerance for those who repeatedly ask for handouts from society instead of what they can do to make it better. Both extremes have long since crossed that threshold, and I impatiently wait for the day when these groups will be truest marginalized and the sane middle will unquestionably reign supreme.

We need to move beyond petty divisions.

I love my country, and I love every sane person it it, regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, religion, or political beliefs.

Thanks for the repetition of your opinion. Others differ.

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Pretty much anyone who knows anything about Robert E. Lee differs. He's one of the "healthiest" major figures of the war. Lincoln had severe depression. Grant was an alcoholic and while a great general was a lousy president. Sherman also suffered from severe depression.
Nobody brought the country back together after the war more than Robert E. Lee. He set the example and the South followed.

Trump would condemn the Nazis but he wouldn't want to upset his base.

(08-12-2017 02:14 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The car attack was a terrorist attack, no different than the attack by ISIS in Nice.

If by chance the driver was a leftist are you holding to that position? IDK Nidal Hasan ....that was work place violence.

(08-12-2017 03:39 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  Trump would condemn the Nazis but he wouldn't want to upset his base.

This is what Nazis do, tone it down son.

I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

(08-12-2017 03:42 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

That is an excellent idea.

(08-12-2017 03:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:44 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 02:39 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 12:21 AM)hburg Wrote:  I want to preface this that in no way shape or form should history or statue be erased. I believe it is a travesty and downright terrorist to destroy history. Charlottesville are idiots, just like the rest of them for wanting to remove history. Charlottesville (where UVA sits) has brought this on themselves and now they are center stage for what could become a violent turn in this fight. Both sides resorting to violence are idiots and to egg on each other is also asking for trouble.

Unite the right supposedly had a surprise torch march last night with around a thousand, as they approached the Confederate monument, they surrounded around 40 Antifa. From that points, some fighting breaks out between the two, then Antifa pepper sprays, but not Unite the Right, but themselves. The events in Charlottesville today could be even more dangerous. Here is a video that was shared on Facebook - I do not condone, but want to share.
https://www.facebook.com/augustus.invict...1102888111

The video shows Unite the Right March and at the end their encounter with Antifa.

Robert E. Lee was a traitor and generally a sick man. The statue should be turned to gravel, sand, or anything of any value. But he also died 150+ years ago. There are bigger travesties in the world than leaving it up.

And honestly, many BLM member are also sick and selfish. Many have repeatedly shown that they're willing to put their own selfish interest above that of this great country and humanity in general. The same goes for the alt right/Nazis/white supremacists. They're sick, too.

There's a point where I don't have a great deal of tolerance for those who repeatedly ask for handouts from society instead of what they can do to make it better. Both extremes have long since crossed that threshold, and I impatiently wait for the day when these groups will be truest marginalized and the sane middle will unquestionably reign supreme.

We need to move beyond petty divisions.

I love my country, and I love every sane person it it, regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, religion, or political beliefs.

Thanks for the repetition of your opinion. Others differ.

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Pretty much anyone who knows anything about Robert E. Lee differs. He's one of the "healthiest" major figures of the war. Lincoln had severe depression. Grant was an alcoholic and while a great general was a lousy president. Sherman also suffered from severe depression.
Nobody brought the country back together after the war more than Robert E. Lee. He set the example and the South followed.

Well said. Glad someone stepped forward and defended this gentleman. Moral to a fault. Gentleman to his life's end. Leader of his home state and army of Virginia. Toughest decision he had to make in his life.

Thanks again for your insight. Others should learn from what you have said.

As an aside, is everything "Lee" to be removed? What will you have done with the Custis Lee home/mansion in Arlington cemetery?

(08-12-2017 03:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:42 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

That is an excellent idea.

It's really criminally ignored and the Arkansas guy brought that to my attention. Confederate statues are there to promote the mythology of the South and that legacy was held on in the South for way too long with unopposed by people who mattered. I don't like how they are elevated, but it is what it is.

But going through my own parents' home town and the historic black high school, which was luckily kept as a museum. It's amazing that there are so many doctors, business owners, ministers, soldiers, and great community members go with their deaths. They actually made the town.

(08-12-2017 04:02 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:42 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

That is an excellent idea.

It's really criminally ignored and the Arkansas guy brought that to my attention. Confederate statues are there to promote the mythology of the South and that legacy was held on in the South for way too long with unopposed by people who mattered. I don't like how they are elevated, but it is what it is.

But going through my own parents' home town and the historic black high school, which was luckily kept as a museum. It's amazing that there are so many doctors, business owners, ministers, soldiers, and great community members go with their deaths. They actually made the town.

Black Americans, especially in NYC, DC, Cleveland, Chicago, Philly....there were pockets of wealth and professionals / Biz owners as far back as the 1800's. Desegregation actually hurt a lot of these places and business, although legally the right thing to do. I read a great story how Black a Southern farmer, post Civil War, stock piled ammo and rifles. He held off and killed Klan types the invaded his property. 2nd Amendment. I need to find this guy's name and give it to you.

I have a soft spot for Lee that I extend to others commanding the CSA. A lot of the other people who started as Generals were part of the contingent who were gunning for separation and a fight. Lee's service to the South was because his state just happened to go that route. He was going to serve whatever country his state was in. What was he supposed to do? Leave his state and return after the war as a pariah?

He didn't go to circumstances, circumstances came to him.

(08-12-2017 04:02 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:42 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

That is an excellent idea.

It's really criminally ignored and the Arkansas guy brought that to my attention. Confederate statues are there to promote the mythology of the South and that legacy was held on in the South for way too long with unopposed by people who mattered. I don't like how they are elevated, but it is what it is.

But going through my own parents' home town and the historic black high school, which was luckily kept as a museum. It's amazing that there are so many doctors, business owners, ministers, soldiers, and great community members go with their deaths. They actually made the town.

Yeah, well I have supported the Arkansas Mosaic Templars museum, a black cultural museum and have always been outspoken for what has been done to the Arkansas Delta.

If you go to the wikipedia atticle on the Elaine Race Riot and check the page history...ark30inf. Yeah me...I created it.

I've always been a supporter and promoter of black history so don't try to lay some idea that I'm defending Robert E. Lee statues because of "white supremacy".



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(08-12-2017 04:10 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 04:02 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:44 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 03:42 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I'd rather the statue not come down, even though this decision doesn't have anything to do with me. There are a lot of things in this world that I don't like. Henderson, NC--where I went to high school--had a KKK hotline (252-492-7000). I wish they weren't allowed a phone number. I really do. I wouldn't advocate actually having that number banned by the phone company though.

I'd rather they promote local black historic figures for these areas. They existed and hopefully their history could be dug up.

That is an excellent idea.

It's really criminally ignored and the Arkansas guy brought that to my attention. Confederate statues are there to promote the mythology of the South and that legacy was held on in the South for way too long with unopposed by people who mattered. I don't like how they are elevated, but it is what it is.

But going through my own parents' home town and the historic black high school, which was luckily kept as a museum. It's amazing that there are so many doctors, business owners, ministers, soldiers, and great community members go with their deaths. They actually made the town.

Black Americans, especially in NYC, DC, Cleveland, Chicago, Philly....there were pockets of wealth and professionals / Biz owners as far back as the 1800's. Desegregation actually hurt a lot of these places and business, although legally the right thing to do. I read a great story how Black a Southern farmer, post Civil War, stock piled ammo and rifles. He held off and killed Klan types the invaded his property. 2nd Amendment. I need to find this guy's name and give it to you.

There were a lot of these places in the South too, but Black Wall Street in Tulsa didn't end so well and Wilmington, NC ended with a coup.

Desegregation did hurt a lot of black business, but it helped the middle class who could now get jobs.

(08-12-2017 12:13 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I'm watching the Fox News story in Charlottesville and I can't tell the good guys UTR from the Antifa communists. They need armbands. or something.

The same thing in our coming wars. It seems everyone is wearing American style helmets now. How will we able to tell who to shoot?

Yikes...

(08-12-2017 04:26 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  

(08-12-2017 12:13 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  I'm watching the Fox News story in Charlottesville and I can't tell the good guys UTR from the Antifa communists. They need armbands. or something.

The same thing in our coming wars. It seems everyone is wearing American style helmets now. How will we able to tell who to shoot?

Yikes...

The KKK, Skinheads, Antifa, and BLM activists in Charlottesville are all equally bad and equally to blame for the violence. They are all racist, all promote violence, and all deserve the worst.

Virginia State Police helicopter just went down.

I think it's about time for sane people to reclaim their movements.