To be clear, for all I know this was truly done with malicious intent and it really was theft.

All I'm saying is that if there is evidence that this was meant as a prank, I don't think these guys should even miss a single game...much less have a criminal record for the rest of their lives over it.

(04-26-2017 11:00 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:15 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:10 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:01 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  Sounds like a bunch of things worth over $1,000 total were stolen and the police had to recover them.

This was no prank.

Prank or not....taking things from someone is theft. There is no exception to the law that says you can get away with it if it's a prank.

Seriously? Ok Johnny RuleFollower. Geez.

Have you ever told a friend you were going to whoop their ass if they farted in your car again? That's technically assault. And if you punch him in the arm to get your point across, congratulations, you've now committed battery.

Give me a break.

And if none of that is reported to the police, can I still be charged with a crime?

Here, the theft was reported and those involved in any way were arrested.

Actually yes you could. A witness could report it. A crime is a crime whether or not a victim reports the crime or not. How many murders do you think are reported by their victims?

Also, what if that friend gets pissed at you the following week because he caught you texting his girlfriend, then he decides to report the fart induced retaliatory assault and battery to the police?

The point I'm trying to illustrate to you is that if you want to draw this hard line in the sand that "stealing is stealing! There's nothing in the law that says anything about it being a prank!" then you should at least be consistent in that stance and be ready for the horrible consequences that would create.

This is one reason why we have a jury of our peers. Because often there are mitigating circumstances that must be taken into account through thoughtful consideration of all the details that a simple law written in the books doesn't address.

Well, no, its only a crime if the offended party presses charges and the offending party is found guilty. It doesn't matter if someone else witnesses it. Also, what is the statute of limitations on the fart induced retaliation. If its just a week, then someone can't press charges when they see their buddy was texting their girl a week later.

(04-26-2017 11:21 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:18 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:00 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:15 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Seriously? Ok Johnny RuleFollower. Geez.

Have you ever told a friend you were going to whoop their ass if they farted in your car again? That's technically assault. And if you punch him in the arm to get your point across, congratulations, you've now committed battery.

Give me a break.

And if none of that is reported to the police, can I still be charged with a crime?

Here, the theft was reported and those involved in any way were arrested.

Actually yes you could. A witness could report it. A crime is a crime whether or not a victim reports the crime or not. How many murders do you think are reported by their victims?

Also, what if that friend gets pissed at you the following week because he caught you texting his girlfriend, then he decides to report the fart induced retaliatory assault and battery to the police?

The point I'm trying to illustrate to you is that if you want to draw this hard line in the sand that "stealing is stealing! There's nothing in the law that says anything about it being a prank!" then you should at least be consistent in that stance and be ready for the horrible consequences that would create.

This is one reason why we have a jury of our peers. Because often there are mitigating circumstances that must be taken into account through thoughtful consideration of all the details that a simple law written in the books doesn't address.

I never said that the victim had to report it. I just simply said that if no one reports it, can I be charged with a crime?

If he reports it a week later, he better have some strong evidence to present to the police to obtain a warrant for my arrest. Likely any physical evidence has gone away and if he didn't receive any medical attention for it at the time of the assault, then he won't have much evidence a week later.

Do I need to keep coming up with hypotheticals for you to acknowledge that taking a hard line on this even if it is proven to be a prank is a little unfair to these players?

I sure TP'd a lot of houses in high school, but did it as a prank to my teammates on the soccer team, but technically that was trespassing and vandalism.

Sure glad I don't have a criminal record from that.

Hypothetically speaking, let's say I was going 80 MPH in a school zone, but was only doing so as a prank on my little sister who was waiting outside of the school. Crime or no crime?

(04-26-2017 11:24 AM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:00 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:15 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:10 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  Prank or not....taking things from someone is theft. There is no exception to the law that says you can get away with it if it's a prank.

Seriously? Ok Johnny RuleFollower. Geez.

Have you ever told a friend you were going to whoop their ass if they farted in your car again? That's technically assault. And if you punch him in the arm to get your point across, congratulations, you've now committed battery.

Give me a break.

And if none of that is reported to the police, can I still be charged with a crime?

Here, the theft was reported and those involved in any way were arrested.

Actually yes you could. A witness could report it. A crime is a crime whether or not a victim reports the crime or not. How many murders do you think are reported by their victims?

Also, what if that friend gets pissed at you the following week because he caught you texting his girlfriend, then he decides to report the fart induced retaliatory assault and battery to the police?

The point I'm trying to illustrate to you is that if you want to draw this hard line in the sand that "stealing is stealing! There's nothing in the law that says anything about it being a prank!" then you should at least be consistent in that stance and be ready for the horrible consequences that would create.

This is one reason why we have a jury of our peers. Because often there are mitigating circumstances that must be taken into account through thoughtful consideration of all the details that a simple law written in the books doesn't address.

Well, no, its only a crime if the offended party presses charges and the offending party is found guilty. It doesn't matter if someone else witnesses it. Also, what is the statute of limitations on the fart induced retaliation. If its just a week, then someone can't press charges when they see their buddy was texting their girl a week later.

For the record, the victim has no say in whether charges are pressed or not. That discretion is up the DA in the jurisdiction where the crime occurred.

Another question

Why exactly does a single Cajun Football player have a thousand dollars plus worth of shoes?

(04-26-2017 11:46 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Another question

Why exactly does a single Cajun Football player have a thousand dollars plus worth of shoes?

Pell Grant that's how most guys paid for tattoos and clothes.

Hudspeth responds to 13 UL football players' felony charges: http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/...100915218/

Here is the list of players:

Matthew Aaron Barnes, 22;
Joseph J. Dillon, 20;
Robert G. Handy-Hunt, 20;
Denarius D. Howard, 22;
Jarvis D. Jeffries, 20;
Ladarrius Tyquan Kidd, 21;
Terik Miller, 20;
Damar'ren Cordaier Mitchell, 20;
Trey Paul Ragas, 20;
Simeon G. Thomas, 23;
Levarious Varnado, 20;
D'Aquin J. Withrow, 23;
Jordan E. Wright, 21.

They have been suspended indefinitely.

(04-26-2017 12:21 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  Hudspeth responds to 13 UL football players' felony charges: http://www.theadvertiser.com/story/news/...100915218/

Here is the list of players:

Matthew Aaron Barnes, 22;
Joseph J. Dillon, 20;
Robert G. Handy-Hunt, 20;
Denarius D. Howard, 22;
Jarvis D. Jeffries, 20;
Ladarrius Tyquan Kidd, 21;
Terik Miller, 20;
Damar'ren Cordaier Mitchell, 20;
Trey Paul Ragas, 20;
Simeon G. Thomas, 23;
Levarious Varnado, 20;
D'Aquin J. Withrow, 23;
Jordan E. Wright, 21.

They have been suspended indefinitely.

I suspect that they'll be back in time for the first game of the season, particularly if any of them happen to be starters . . . .

They may sit a series, or two, or perhaps a quarter, against some no name FCS program that the Cajuns would trash anyway . . .

Most of these players would be starters or major contributors this year

(04-26-2017 11:21 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:18 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:00 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:15 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Seriously? Ok Johnny RuleFollower. Geez.

Have you ever told a friend you were going to whoop their ass if they farted in your car again? That's technically assault. And if you punch him in the arm to get your point across, congratulations, you've now committed battery.

Give me a break.

And if none of that is reported to the police, can I still be charged with a crime?

Here, the theft was reported and those involved in any way were arrested.

Actually yes you could. A witness could report it. A crime is a crime whether or not a victim reports the crime or not. How many murders do you think are reported by their victims?

Also, what if that friend gets pissed at you the following week because he caught you texting his girlfriend, then he decides to report the fart induced retaliatory assault and battery to the police?

The point I'm trying to illustrate to you is that if you want to draw this hard line in the sand that "stealing is stealing! There's nothing in the law that says anything about it being a prank!" then you should at least be consistent in that stance and be ready for the horrible consequences that would create.

This is one reason why we have a jury of our peers. Because often there are mitigating circumstances that must be taken into account through thoughtful consideration of all the details that a simple law written in the books doesn't address.

I never said that the victim had to report it. I just simply said that if no one reports it, can I be charged with a crime?

If he reports it a week later, he better have some strong evidence to present to the police to obtain a warrant for my arrest. Likely any physical evidence has gone away and if he didn't receive any medical attention for it at the time of the assault, then he won't have much evidence a week later.

Do I need to keep coming up with hypotheticals for you to acknowledge that taking a hard line on this even if it is proven to be a prank is a little unfair to these players?

I sure TP'd a lot of houses in high school, but did it as a prank to my teammates on the soccer team, but technically that was trespassing and vandalism.

Sure glad I don't have a criminal record from that.

I think a lot is getting lost in the fog, and as a police officer, I want to try and help. In Texas, there are two types of complainant's. The State and individuals. The State is used in cases were there is a crime, but no specific "victim." Drug deals, public intoxication and murder (the people vs. O.J. Simpson) and a few examples. For property crime, there virtually always has to be an individual. If you see someone steal a car, report it, the police pull the guy over, but no one can find the owner and the car isn't reported stolen, there isn't much an officer can do, save for documenting the incident. Conversely, if you take your brother's keys without his knowing, and drive away, he can report it stolen and if so, there will be an arrest if caught (a lot of people try to report a car stolen that was knowingly borrowed, but not returned, and then that becomes a civil issue).

In this case, they knowingly (intent) took the complainant's property (act) without consent (...consent...) which meet all the elements of the offense in Texas. Prank or not, that is a crime.

And before you get all boo-hooed that you shouldn't be punished for a prank, that has resulted in death before. Should criminally negligent homicide be okay if it started out as a prank? If you say no, then you start a slippery-slope debate about which pranks are okay and which aren't. The same prank could lead to different results, so you can't even say certain pranks work better. If the homeowner falls off a ladder cleaning the TP and dies, you could have been charged with criminally negligent homicide.

And I'm not for or against these players, but every action has some level of consequence. It is what it is.

And yes, you could have had an arrest record if the person's house you TPed decided to press charges, and it has happened. Think twice before you prank is the best advice I have.

(04-26-2017 11:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, let's say I was going 80 MPH in a school zone, but was only doing so as a prank on my little sister who was waiting outside of the school. Crime or no crime?

He's talking about something people might do often that no one would think anything of that could be a criminal offense. You're talking about doing something not-so-common that can maim or kill people. I fail to see how those are comparable.

The thing about zero-tolerance policies is that means zero common sense. That's how you end up with 7-year-old boys getting suspended for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun.

(04-26-2017 12:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, let's say I was going 80 MPH in a school zone, but was only doing so as a prank on my little sister who was waiting outside of the school. Crime or no crime?

He's talking about something people might do often that no one would think anything of that could be a criminal offense. You're talking about doing something not-so-common that can maim or kill people. I fail to see how those are comparable.

The thing about zero-tolerance policies is that means zero common sense. That's how you end up with 7-year-old boys getting suspended for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun.

Yep. I wasn't even going to reply to the post because the comparison was so ridiculous. But you nailed it.

(04-26-2017 12:33 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:21 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:18 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:00 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  And if none of that is reported to the police, can I still be charged with a crime?

Here, the theft was reported and those involved in any way were arrested.

Actually yes you could. A witness could report it. A crime is a crime whether or not a victim reports the crime or not. How many murders do you think are reported by their victims?

Also, what if that friend gets pissed at you the following week because he caught you texting his girlfriend, then he decides to report the fart induced retaliatory assault and battery to the police?

The point I'm trying to illustrate to you is that if you want to draw this hard line in the sand that "stealing is stealing! There's nothing in the law that says anything about it being a prank!" then you should at least be consistent in that stance and be ready for the horrible consequences that would create.

This is one reason why we have a jury of our peers. Because often there are mitigating circumstances that must be taken into account through thoughtful consideration of all the details that a simple law written in the books doesn't address.

I never said that the victim had to report it. I just simply said that if no one reports it, can I be charged with a crime?

If he reports it a week later, he better have some strong evidence to present to the police to obtain a warrant for my arrest. Likely any physical evidence has gone away and if he didn't receive any medical attention for it at the time of the assault, then he won't have much evidence a week later.

Do I need to keep coming up with hypotheticals for you to acknowledge that taking a hard line on this even if it is proven to be a prank is a little unfair to these players?

I sure TP'd a lot of houses in high school, but did it as a prank to my teammates on the soccer team, but technically that was trespassing and vandalism.

Sure glad I don't have a criminal record from that.

I think a lot is getting lost in the fog, and as a police officer, I want to try and help. In Texas, there are two types of complainant's. The State and individuals. The State is used in cases were there is a crime, but no specific "victim." Drug deals, public intoxication and murder (the people vs. O.J. Simpson) and a few examples. For property crime, there virtually always has to be an individual. If you see someone steal a car, report it, the police pull the guy over, but no one can find the owner and the car isn't reported stolen, there isn't much an officer can do, save for documenting the incident. Conversely, if you take your brother's keys without his knowing, and drive away, he can report it stolen and if so, there will be an arrest if caught (a lot of people try to report a car stolen that was knowingly borrowed, but not returned, and then that becomes a civil issue).

In this case, they knowingly (intent) took the complainant's property (act) without consent (...consent...) which meet all the elements of the offense in Texas. Prank or not, that is a crime.

And before you get all boo-hooed that you shouldn't be punished for a prank, that has resulted in death before. Should criminally negligent homicide be okay if it started out as a prank? If you say no, then you start a slippery-slope debate about which pranks are okay and which aren't. The same prank could lead to different results, so you can't even say certain pranks work better. If the homeowner falls off a ladder cleaning the TP and dies, you could have been charged with criminally negligent homicide.

And I'm not for or against these players, but every action has some level of consequence. It is what it is.

And yes, you could have had an arrest record if the person's house you TPed decided to press charges, and it has happened. Think twice before you prank is the best advice I have.

I don't mean this as any disrespect, as I have a brother in law who is a parole officer, but you're kind of proving my point about why we have a jury of our peers.

As a police officer, just like my brother in law, you aren't paid to make judgement calls based on extenuating circumstances. You're paid to enforce the law as written in black and white. The judge and/or jury are the ones that decide if a) your judgement was correct that a crime was committed, b) whether or not the law should be applied in the specific situation based on any extenuating circumstances, and c) to what extent (if any) punishment should be applied.

So did these kids technically steal based on the law? Yes probably from what I'm reading. And any law enforcement officer would probably "arrest" for that. However, arrest does not equal conviction in the USA, and all I'm saying is that if your stance on here is one of zero tolerance, with no consideration of of any extenuating circumstances, then I guess you should believe there should be no court system. If someone is arrested, just lock them up.

If there was evidence that these kids were doing this as a prank and I were in the jury, I would absolutely REFUSE to convict. I wouldn't do that to these kids. Because I'm a logical citizen serving on a jury of their peers that can exercise my good common sense in the application of the law.

As for your comment about me being charged with murder related to the TP thing, I find that very hard to believe. But if true, if someone was arrested for murder based on a home owner falling off a ladder cleaning up TP, and a DA brought charges against the prankster, I feel very confident in that hypothetical situation, there would be at least one juror that would refuse to convict. I know I sure would.

This is why I love America.

I'm running the risk of people thinking I'm a Cajuns fan, but I would hope there would be the same defense of Coastal players if something similar happened.

(04-26-2017 12:51 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 12:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, let's say I was going 80 MPH in a school zone, but was only doing so as a prank on my little sister who was waiting outside of the school. Crime or no crime?

He's talking about something people might do often that no one would think anything of that could be a criminal offense. You're talking about doing something not-so-common that can maim or kill people. I fail to see how those are comparable.

The thing about zero-tolerance policies is that means zero common sense. That's how you end up with 7-year-old boys getting suspended for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun.

Yep. I wasn't even going to reply to the post because the comparison was so ridiculous. But you nailed it.

But a fart induced beating isn't ridiculous?

(04-26-2017 01:41 PM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 12:51 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 12:38 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:30 AM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, let's say I was going 80 MPH in a school zone, but was only doing so as a prank on my little sister who was waiting outside of the school. Crime or no crime?

He's talking about something people might do often that no one would think anything of that could be a criminal offense. You're talking about doing something not-so-common that can maim or kill people. I fail to see how those are comparable.

The thing about zero-tolerance policies is that means zero common sense. That's how you end up with 7-year-old boys getting suspended for chewing a pop tart into the shape of a gun.

Yep. I wasn't even going to reply to the post because the comparison was so ridiculous. But you nailed it.

But a fart induced beating isn't ridiculous?

No. It isn't. I can't tell you how many times I've told a buddy, "Stop XYZ or I'll kick your ass."

Doesn't have to be a fart. It can be anything. If you've ever jokingly told one of your friends that you're going to kick their butt, congrats, you committed assault.

Based on your zero tolerance policy, you should have a criminal record.

I'd be willing to make a wild bet that there are 100,000 people who have threatened to hit a friend as a joke for every 1 person that has driven through a school zone at 80mph as a "prank."

(04-26-2017 11:46 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Another question

Why exactly does a single Cajun Football player have a thousand dollars plus worth of shoes?

Cost of attendance stipends.

(04-26-2017 01:07 PM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  I'm running the risk of people thinking I'm a Cajuns fan, but I would hope there would be the same defense of Coastal players if something similar happened.

People need to show a basic level of skepticism here.

The vast majority of college football players are not going to steal. Now with that in mind what is more probable:

1. Thirteen players came up with the idea to take things from a dorm room for their own use with no intention of ever returning them and not even take enough things for each of them to have one item.

OR

2. This was a prank, possibly against a disgruntled former player as has been mentioned before.

Now that doesn't mean the kids made bad judgement, but I hope that the prosecutors in Lafayette aren't willing to ruin the lives of these guys just because they forgot that they aren't doing a panty raid at summer camp.

This thread reads as weird as one on Ragin Pagin.

(04-26-2017 01:54 PM)_x_ Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:46 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Another question

Why exactly does a single Cajun Football player have a thousand dollars plus worth of shoes?

Cost of attendance stipends.

He spent that much of his stipend on shoes?