I think you're missing the point.

(04-23-2017 03:17 PM)Clarity Wrote:  This is totally reasonable on the other hand. You are basically Frank just calm down lol. I don't like to start **** here but some people do and they're all NMSU fans go figure.

"I think Frank is looking at this guy positively because he is an experienced coach with a pretty decent record. I know lot's in the WAC are licking their chops at whats happening at NMSU but the men's program has been a successful program for decades and is always in whatever conference we have been a top contender. NMSU will be fine and this hire is a good one. GCU still has lot's to prove. NMSU already has and will continue to be the team to beat in the WAC. #weirok"

Wow, you have some "spunk" as Lou Grant would say. (yah, that dates me, I know )

Ahhh....takes me back to my first board altercation when I began. I was just a little shaver then, not more than seven or eight. It was the Long Beach boards, and I read some smack about my school, and fired off a diatribe. Good thing was, CSUB had beaten LBSU twice in recent years at the time, so it was a little satisfying. Ahhh....good times!

Currently mobile....away from the house or on "the throne."

Clarity you fell down the frank and dancing rabbit hole. You're trying to convince them that nmsu isn't going to be the best. That's just not going to happen.

This year is a toss up for NMSU. But how many years in the last 8 has NMSU went dancing? Just basing it on history pard.

And the last two pages deal the the thread how ...

I think that an experienced assistant from a decent team is good. I think that both being midwest guys might signal a shift in where recruiting will happen.

Here is short bios below of all the WAC head coaches. WAC fans can assess which program has the best coach & program...

Rod Barnes – 50 yrs. old (Ole Miss ’88)
Overall Record: 18 yrs. – 291-275 (0.514),
Cal State Bakersfield, 6 yrs. – 106-87 (0.549)
Georgia State, 4 yrs. – 44-79 (0.358)
Ole Miss, 8 yrs. – 141-109 (0.560)
Division 1 Record: 18 yrs – 291-275 (0.514)
WAC Record: 4 yrs. – 35-23 (0.603)
Assistant Coaching Experience: 9 yrs., Oklahoma (1), Ole Miss (5), Livingston (3)
Coaching Awards:
2017 Hugh Durham Coach of the Year – Nation’s Top Mid-Major Coach
2017 WAC Coach of the Year
2016 WAC Coach of the Year
2001 Naismith College Coach of the Year
2001 SEC Coach of the Year
Staff: Benjy Taylor (Richmond ’87), Jeff Conarroe (Colorado College ’91), JD Pollack (Kennesaw State ’09)

Rick Croy – 40 yrs. old (San Francisco State ’99)
Overall Record: 9 yrs., 234-58 (0.801),
Cal Baptist, 4 yrs. – 104-23 (0.819)
Citrus College, 5 yrs. – 130-35 (0.788)
Division 1 Record: 0-0
WAC Record: 0-0
Assistant Coaching Experience: 6 yrs., Saint Mary’s (3), Concordia (1), UC Riverside (2)
Coaching Awards:
2014 PacWest Basketball Coach of the Year
2010 Western State Conference Coach of the Year
2009 Western State Conference Coach of the Year
2008 Western State Conference Coach of the Year
Staff: Hardy Asprilla (Cal State Fullerton ’05), Josh Dunaj (Concordia ’05), Doc Wellman (Azusa Pacific ’05)

Tracy Dildy – 50 yrs. old (Illinois Chicago ’89)
Overall Record: 7 yrs. – 52-171 (0.233)
Chicago State
Division 1 Record: 7 yrs. – 52-171 (0.233)
WAC Record: 4 yrs. – 13-45 (0.224)
Assistant Coach Experience: 16 yrs., Illinois Chicago (3), UAB (1), Ole Miss (1), Auburn (3), DePaul (5), Ball State (3)
Coaching Awards:
2008 Hoop Scoop Assistant Coach of the Year
Staff: James Farr (Creighton ’89), Matt Raidbard (Indiana ’06), Eddie Denard (Chicago State ’15)

Jim Hayford – 49 yrs. old (Azusa Pacific ’90)
Overall Record: 18 yrs. – 360-175 (0.673)
Seattle University, 0 yrs. – 0-0
Eastern Washington, 6 yrs. – 106-91 (0.538)
Whitworth, 10 yrs. – 127-33 (0.794)
Sioux Falls, 2 yrs. – 37-27 (0.578)
Division 1 Record: 6 yrs. – 106-91 (0.538), Eastern Washington
WAC Record: 0-0
Assistant Coach Experience: 9 yrs., Azusa Pacific
Coaching Awards:
2015 Big Sky Conference Basketball Co-Coach of the Year
2011 NABC Western Region Coach of the Year
2011 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year
2010 NABC Western Region Coach of the Year
2010 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year
2008 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year
2007 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year
2003 Northwest Conference Coach of the Year
Staff: Chris Victor (Concordia ’04), Nick Robinson (Stanford ’05), Ryan Madry (West Georgia ’06),

Lew Hill – 51 yrs. old (Wichita State ’88)
Overall Record: 1 yr. – 10-22 (0.313)
UT Rio Grande Valley
Division 1 Record: 1 yr. – 10-22 (0.313)
WAC Record: 1 yr. – 2-12 (0.143)
Assistant Coaching Experience: 26 yrs., Oklahoma (5), UNLV (7), Texas A&M (6), East Carolina (4), SE Missouri State (2), South Alabama (2)
Coaching Awards: None
Staff: Jai Steadman (Nebraska ’92), Kenya Crandell (Nebraska Kearney ’96), Luke Mackay (East Carolina ’06)

Chris Jans – 48 yrs. old (Loras College ’91)
Overall Record: 7 yrs. – 180-57 (0.759)
New Mexico State 0-0
Bowling Green, 1 yr. – 21-11 (0.636)
Chipola CC, 1 yr. – 35-5 (0.865)
Howard CC, 2 yrs. – 49-14 (0.778)
Independence CC, 1 yr. – 22-10 (0.688)
Kirkwood CC, 2 yrs. – 56-16 (0.786) – 1998 NJCAA Division II National Championship
Division 1 Record: 1 yr. – 21-11 (0.636)
WAC Record: 0-0
Assistant Coaching Experience: 18 yrs., Wichita State (9), Illinois State (3), Idaho (1), Grand View (2), Elmhurst (3)
Coaching Awards:
2015 Joe B. Hall National Coach of the Year - Nation’s Top First Year Coach
1998 NJCAA Division II National Coach of the Year
1997 NJCAA Region XI Coach of the Year
Staff: Lou Gudino (Indiana ’97), Jesse Bopp (Plymouth State ’07), Aerick Sanders (San Diego State ’05)

Dan Majerle – 51 yrs. old (Central Michigan ’88)
Overall Record: 4 yrs. – 81-45 (0.643)
Grand Canyon
Division 1 Record: 4 yrs. – 81-45 (0.643)
WAC Record: 4. yrs. 40-17 (0.702)
Assistant Coaching Experience: 5 yrs., Phoenix Suns
Coaching Awards: None
Accolades: 14 year NBA career – 3 time NBA All-Star (1992, 1993, 1995)
Staff: Todd Lee (South Dakota ’86), Chris Crevelone (Adam State ’07), TJ Benson (Weber State ’09)

Mark Pope – 44 yrs. old (Kentucky ’96)
Overall Record: 2 yrs. – 29-35 (0.453)
Utah Valley
Division 1 Record: 2 yrs. – 29-35 (0.453)
WAC Record: 2 yrs. 12-16 (0.429)
Assistant Coach Experience: 6 yrs., BYU (4), Wake Forest (1), Georgia (1)
Coaching Awards: None
Accolades: 1996 NCAA National Championship, 6 year NBA career, 10 year pro career.
Staff: Cody Fueger (Utah ’06), Chris Burgess (Utah ’02), Eric Daniels (Johnson & Wales ’08)

Kareem Richardson – 42 yrs. old (Evansville ’97)
Overall Record: 4 yrs – 54-75 (0.419)
UM Kansas City
Division 1 Record: 4 yrs. – 54-75 (0.419)
WAC Record: 4 yrs. – 27-31 (0.466)
Assistant Coaching Experience: 16 yrs., Louisville (1), Xavier (1), Drake (3), UM Kansas City (1), Evansville (4), Wright State (1), Indiana State (3), Indianapolis (2)
Coaching Awards: None
Staff: Angres Thorpe (St. Leo ’90), Conner Hampton (Tabor ’11),

The "best" coach/program is the one who gets it done in 2017-18. Nobody gets to roll wins over based on prior seasons, successes, or accolades. Every team will start 0-0. I hope to see the WAC improve on the whole, but none of us really knows which way this will go.

Though I suppose the chest thumping and insistence of "my team is the best" is part of the fabric of message boards, right?

Wow Clarity, you turned into a little punk in no time. You came in with basketball knowledge, complimentary of all the programs and some good insights. Then Frank says "New Mexico State will have a good coaching staff next season" and that takes you over the edge? You credibility just went to zero with me. You were just looking for a fight.

In the same post you say "I thought good teams knew how to win" and then "There's a 100% chance CSUB would've won in the WAC final this year but we played a 4OT game the night before". So which statement is true? Can't be both.

Chin up. You still have a HS gym with a blue court to go back to.

(04-24-2017 08:36 AM)gleadley Wrote:  The "best" coach/program is the one who gets it done in 2017-18. Nobody gets to roll wins over based on prior seasons, successes, or accolades. Every team will start 0-0. I hope to see the WAC improve on the whole, but none of us really knows which way this will go.

Though I suppose the chest thumping and insistence of "my team is the best" is part of the fabric of message boards, right?

Obviously, the best "team" will win in 2017-18. And there is a lot into what it takes to make that happen. I only put this snapshot into our respective school's head coaching backgrounds because there are debates here on who has the best coaches, who was the best program, and who recruits the best.

The CSUB fans are feeling their oats because they have had recent success. One can question is this a growing trend or merely lightening in a bottle with having the right players at the right time?

NMSU fan believe they have the best program based on history. But can NMSU weather their coaching storm and stay the course or has the clock finally run out?

Then there is GCU who appears to have the money to reverse history and change the status quo. Is Majerle as good a coach as Barnes? Or does GCU's money make up for Majerle's deficiency as a coach? Is Barnes really that good a coach? Jan's appears to have better coaching credentials than Paul Weir, will that equate to more wins?

Then there is Mark Pope, Jim Hayford, and Lew Hill lurking in the background. Will they rock the apple cart?

I know, all we can do is play the games. See who wins each battle. And, when the dust clears, discuss who won the war.

The breakdown is excellent as always, Pistol. I'm always impressed by the info you bring to the table. I'm just not sure it is all as predictive as some wish or insist it to be.

I guess my position is the same as it has been for the last 3 years: To be the best, you have to beat the best. I guess CSUB fans now have a calendar year of successes to make their case, but I am still with Coach Majerle on this one:

"GCU WANTS to be the best.
CSUB THINKS they are the best.
NMSU IS the best."

Until someone jumps up and sweeps regular season & WACt titles from NMSU in the same season, I still think they are the class of the conference. Everyone else is just chasing, no matter the HC, staff, players, administration, budgets, etc.

New Mexico State Basketball since 2011/2012 season.

151-58 Overall Record

73-17 WAC Record

2 WAC Regular Season Championships

5 WAC Tournament Championships

5 NCAA Tournament Appearances

1 NIT Tournament Appearance.

(04-24-2017 12:56 PM)FINALFOUR1970SWEETSIXTEEN1992 Wrote:  New Mexico State Basketball since 2011/2012 season.

151-58 Overall Record

73-17 WAC Record

2 WAC Regular Season Championships

5 WAC Tournament Championships

5 NCAA Tournament Appearances

1 NIT Tournament Appearance.

All true... BUT also two coaching changes in the last two years. That is where the rest of the conference is seeing our vulnerability. Cal State Bakersfield has had Rod Barnes for 6 seasons now. Their last two have been on par with NMSU. And, Dan Majerle has been at GCU four seasons; and they are now eligible for the WAC Tournament. Last season, they strolled in Bakersfield and ruined their Senior night and undefeated home record.

If the Traitor had not left, and we were building on last season's success, NMSU would be golden. But now that Jans is our new coach, there are some questions left to be answered before NMSU can be proclaimed the odds on favorite to win it all again next season.

That Senior night game shouldn't even matter. They had already clinched the WAC plus they fought back and almost won it from down 20, they only won by 6. I don't think there is too much to read into there.

(04-24-2017 02:44 PM)Clarity Wrote:  That Senior night game shouldn't even matter. They had already clinched the WAC plus they fought back and almost won it from down 20, they only won by 6. I don't think there is too much to read into there.

Yet you want us to read into if CSUB hadn't gone 4OT against UVU, CSUB would have beaten NMSU.

How many different pairs of reading glasses do you have?

Dude are you kidding? That's a pretty easy thing to see. We were up 12 at halftime. Anybody with a brain can see CSUB would've won that game if they didn't. They were gassed in the 2nd half. Plus in the GCU game Brent Wrapp was out who is very important to how the offense runs. If you want to read into a throwaway game against GCU when you should really be reading into when we beat you down in Bakersfield or our NIT semifinals run. Those games actually mattered.

(04-24-2017 03:22 PM)Clarity Wrote:  Dude are you kidding? That's a pretty easy thing to see. We were up 12 at halftime. Anybody with a brain can see CSUB would've won that game if they didn't. They were gassed in the 2nd half. Plus in the GCU game Brent Wrapp was out who is very important to how the offense runs. If you want to read into a throwaway game against GCU when you should really be reading into when we beat you down in Bakersfield or our NIT semifinals run. Those games actually mattered.

How did you go from being this guy with good insight and commentary into a clueless homer in the span of a few days? You need to change your name cuz "clarity" you are not.

The Aggies played three games that weekend and your 4 OT game is merely the equivalent of an extra game. So that's a wash.

The excuses about Wrapp and other BS is just that - BS. We lost N'Dir (our second leading scorer) for most of the season, we lost Siakam (a first round NBA pick) before the season, Marlon Jones (a starter to begin the season) to a shoulder injury for the season, etc. I could go on and on, but the point is NMSU didn't miss a beat. Get a clue. Stick to facts. It's ok to have an opinion, but it's just silly to say "100% we would have won". That's just nonsense. You lost so get over it. We didn't make excuses when we lost to you this year or in the WAC championship last year. We lost and that was the end of it.

(04-24-2017 03:57 PM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 03:22 PM)Clarity Wrote:  Dude are you kidding? That's a pretty easy thing to see. We were up 12 at halftime. Anybody with a brain can see CSUB would've won that game if they didn't. They were gassed in the 2nd half. Plus in the GCU game Brent Wrapp was out who is very important to how the offense runs. If you want to read into a throwaway game against GCU when you should really be reading into when we beat you down in Bakersfield or our NIT semifinals run. Those games actually mattered.

How did you go from being this guy with good insight and commentary into a clueless homer in the span of a few days? You need to change your name cuz "clarity" you are not.

The Aggies played three games that weekend and your 4 OT game is merely the equivalent of an extra game. So that's a wash.

The excuses about Wrapp and other BS is just that - BS. We lost N'Dir (our second leading scorer) for most of the season, we lost Siakam (a first round NBA pick) before the season, Marlon Jones (a starter to begin the season) to a shoulder injury for the season, etc. I could go on and on, but the point is NMSU didn't miss a beat. Get a clue. Stick to facts. It's ok to have an opinion, but it's just silly to say "100% we would have won". That's just nonsense. You lost so get over it. We didn't make excuses when we lost to you this year or in the WAC championship last year. We lost and that was the end of it.

You are absolutely delusional. Log off for a bit and simmer down. Go outside.

(04-24-2017 02:44 PM)Clarity Wrote:  That Senior night game shouldn't even matter. They had already clinched the WAC plus they fought back and almost won it from down 20, they only won by 6. I don't think there is too much to read into there.

This is a fun game. I'll play. In 80 minutes of head to head play in 2017/18, CSUB only led GCU for 6:40 total & never by more than 4. In the other 73:20, GCU averaged an almost 7 point lead on the Runners.

I'm not sure who is reading what into what, but you guys caught the L at home from GCU. Own it. There's no shame in losing to a good team, and excuses are never a good look.

I am not making excuses. I am pointing out a very valid point that Wrapp was injured and the WAC regular season was already clinched. They had nothing to play for. That's fine you can believe what you want to believe. You dudes should start reading into the NIT run. That happened after the GCU loss and were games that actually mattered.

(04-24-2017 11:38 AM)gleadley Wrote:  The breakdown is excellent as always, Pistol. I'm always impressed by the info you bring to the table. I'm just not sure it is all as predictive as some wish or insist it to be.

I guess my position is the same as it has been for the last 3 years: To be the best, you have to beat the best. I guess CSUB fans now have a calendar year of successes to make their case, but I am still with Coach Majerle on this one:

"GCU WANTS to be the best.
CSUB THINKS they are the best.
NMSU IS the best."

Until someone jumps up and sweeps regular season & WACt titles from NMSU in the same season, I still think they are the class of the conference. Everyone else is just chasing, no matter the HC, staff, players, administration, budgets, etc.

Nice take. I agree with everything. We NMSU fans get up on our high horse a bit too much for my liking. I cringe at some of the stuff I see here. But I like to see objective posts like this (even if it is in our favor).