The unofficial online home for fans of the UAB Blazers. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:14 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  Birmingham mayor has big plans for downtown sports venue
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/...iver_index

I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

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I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

Any competitive Dome is a billion dollars. You can build a stadium and significant convention space for one third of that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

(04-26-2017 03:48 AM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:14 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  Birmingham mayor has big plans for downtown sports venue
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/...iver_index

I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

Any competitive Dome is a billion dollars. You can build a stadium and significant convention space for one third of that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Eminent domain would probably have to be invoked to get that done, perhaps, in conjunction with the buying and demolishing of Caraway...

(04-26-2017 07:13 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:48 AM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

Any competitive Dome is a billion dollars. You can build a stadium and significant convention space for one third of that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Eminent domain would probably have to be invoked to get that done, perhaps, in conjunction with the buying and demolishing of Caraway...

what? how big of a convention center are you expecting?

the original plan was a stadium + expanding the BJCC arena, it would not take a square inch more land than they already own

But to add extra convention space would require more land. You will also have to add additional parking. There is currently not enough land earmarked for the current plan plus additional convention space and additional parking.

okay the type of convention space you guys are talking about now is not the same as the space a domed stadium would provide

which is it, are we getting a georgia dome or a georgia world congress center?

maybe we should build to our strengths and to our current needs instead of wishful thinking about events that birmingham isn't really good for anyway. if we have the money for a dome, we should build something smaller and then spend the rest of the money on something like improving mass transit

I'm against a dome. Hard to Justify 750M on a huge facility that will never fill up. If the city is dead set on a dome, then it needs to be a smaller dome (55K - 60K) with a fully retractable roof.

(04-26-2017 10:38 AM)4thDownBlazer Wrote:  then it needs to be a smaller dome (55K - 60K) with a fully retractable roof.

which the fully retractable roof will make it as expensive as a regular dome

Just say no to the dome

(04-26-2017 10:51 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:38 AM)4thDownBlazer Wrote:  then it needs to be a smaller dome (55K - 60K) with a fully retractable roof.

which the fully retractable roof will make it as expensive as a regular dome

Just say no to the dome

then no dome. The only way i can see a dome is if it will 100% bring NFL to Birmingham. Otherwise, i dont see spending that kind of money for something that will never be used or filled up. 55k open air stadium is the ticket! Maybe 60K to generate large bowl games.

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:14 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  Birmingham mayor has big plans for downtown sports venue
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/...iver_index

I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

An open air stadium with the amenities to attempt to attract the events the Mayor mentioned would cost a lot more than $125m. Such a stadium would likely be more in the ~$250-400m range for the capacity required (65,000 minimum to bid on CFB Playoff Championship Game).

For reference, Baylor's 45,000 seat stadium cost $266m; Minnesota's 50,000 seat stadium cost $303m and Colorado State's soon to open 41,000 seat stadium is costing $202m.

well, the article said 174M was allocated for the stadium. Also Houston's 40K seat stadium was 120M..

I think 174M would get us what we want.

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:14 AM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  Birmingham mayor has big plans for downtown sports venue
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2017/...iver_index

I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

An open air stadium with the amenities to attempt to attract the events the Mayor mentioned would cost a lot more than $125m. Such a stadium would likely be more in the ~$250-400m range for the capacity required (65,000 minimum to bid on CFB Playoff Championship Game).

For reference, Baylor's 45,000 seat stadium cost $266m; Minnesota's 50,000 seat stadium cost $303m and Colorado State's soon to open 41,000 seat stadium is costing $202m.

a CFB Playoff or CFB Championship game is not coming to Birmingham. Those games are held in Super Bowl arenas. Neither is the SEC Championship coming back. Most of the things quoted in that article are never coming back to Birmingham. The time to build the dome was in the MAPS era. Now things have moved too far beyond and we don't have the money. We've raised taxes beyond the point of MAPS and spent it on other things like a Westin hotel (which should have made the money back but we never hear about that) or schools (not that school funding is a bad thing)

We should build a venue appropriate to what Birmingham is now and what can be reasonably accomplished in the next 20 years. Never going to be Phoenix or Atlanta. Let's build a nice open air stadium that is extremely complementary to UAB's needs, and to the needs of the existing Legion Field facility. Let's expand the BJCC Arena sso we can get early rounds of the NCAA tournament back like we used to have. Let's spend the rest on things that will help the entire metro like transit and transportation.

(04-26-2017 10:56 AM)4thDownBlazer Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:51 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:38 AM)4thDownBlazer Wrote:  then it needs to be a smaller dome (55K - 60K) with a fully retractable roof.

which the fully retractable roof will make it as expensive as a regular dome

Just say no to the dome

then no dome. The only way i can see a dome is if it will 100% bring NFL to Birmingham. Otherwise, i dont see spending that kind of money for something that will never be used or filled up. 55k open air stadium is the ticket! Maybe 60K to generate large bowl games.

The NFL is not coming to Birmingham. It's not even an option. This state is crazy about college football, and Birmingham doesn't have the metro area that NFL teams generally do.(before we start arguing I am aware of the size of Jacksonville, New Orleans and Green Bay). I've looked at countless lists for all the major sports, and Birmingham is rarely on any. We need to focus on building something that can support NCAA tournament games and is a reasonable size football stadium. We do not need to go nuts.

The biggest issue I can see is some people are trying to blow decent plans up into something we don't need at 3-4 times the cost. I'd rather nothing be done than see the costly option chosen.

(04-26-2017 12:55 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:14 AM)hooverblazer Wrote:  I like that Bell has vision to try to grow Birmingham back into a bigger city. Here's how I see it:

If a dome can be reliably financed, let's build the dome due to the other events it can hold. If dome funding is shaky/would take an undetermined amount of time to MAYBE produce the funding, build the open air stadium now.

I'm highly skeptical funding for a dome is feasible. Instead of waiting for a unicorn to materialize, let's build the open-air stadium now. If the money for a dome is there, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

An open air stadium with the amenities to attempt to attract the events the Mayor mentioned would cost a lot more than $125m. Such a stadium would likely be more in the ~$250-400m range for the capacity required (65,000 minimum to bid on CFB Playoff Championship Game).

For reference, Baylor's 45,000 seat stadium cost $266m; Minnesota's 50,000 seat stadium cost $303m and Colorado State's soon to open 41,000 seat stadium is costing $202m.

a CFB Playoff or CFB Championship game is not coming to Birmingham. Those games are held in Super Bowl arenas. Neither is the SEC Championship coming back. Most of the things quoted in that article are never coming back to Birmingham. The time to build the dome was in the MAPS era. Now things have moved too far beyond and we don't have the money. We've raised taxes beyond the point of MAPS and spent it on other things like a Westin hotel (which should have made the money back but we never hear about that) or schools (not that school funding is a bad thing)

We should build a venue appropriate to what Birmingham is now and what can be reasonably accomplished in the next 20 years. Never going to be Phoenix or Atlanta. Let's build a nice open air stadium that is extremely complementary to UAB's needs, and to the needs of the existing Legion Field facility. Let's expand the BJCC Arena sso we can get early rounds of the NCAA tournament back like we used to have. Let's spend the rest on things that will help the entire metro like transit and transportation.

The 37(?) municipalities of Jefferson County have to agree 1st. That's always the stumbling block - power and control. Add in the 30 or so other municipalities in the metro and, well, ...

The list of events "never" coming to B'ham will continue to grow as other cities build while B'ham can only "plan". Just as UAB "planned" new facilities for almost 30 years, the city has had to overcome obstacles (for UAB it was the UA System BOT - for the city it has been state and suburban opposition to its growth) so here we (UAB and B'ham) are in 2017 trying to play "facility catch up" with other cities that have a measure of Home Rule Alabama doesn't permit. (Remember that the BJCC needed a state court ruling to even consider building the proposed stadium)

(04-26-2017 01:14 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 12:55 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

An open air stadium with the amenities to attempt to attract the events the Mayor mentioned would cost a lot more than $125m. Such a stadium would likely be more in the ~$250-400m range for the capacity required (65,000 minimum to bid on CFB Playoff Championship Game).

For reference, Baylor's 45,000 seat stadium cost $266m; Minnesota's 50,000 seat stadium cost $303m and Colorado State's soon to open 41,000 seat stadium is costing $202m.

a CFB Playoff or CFB Championship game is not coming to Birmingham. Those games are held in Super Bowl arenas. Neither is the SEC Championship coming back. Most of the things quoted in that article are never coming back to Birmingham. The time to build the dome was in the MAPS era. Now things have moved too far beyond and we don't have the money. We've raised taxes beyond the point of MAPS and spent it on other things like a Westin hotel (which should have made the money back but we never hear about that) or schools (not that school funding is a bad thing)

We should build a venue appropriate to what Birmingham is now and what can be reasonably accomplished in the next 20 years. Never going to be Phoenix or Atlanta. Let's build a nice open air stadium that is extremely complementary to UAB's needs, and to the needs of the existing Legion Field facility. Let's expand the BJCC Arena sso we can get early rounds of the NCAA tournament back like we used to have. Let's spend the rest on things that will help the entire metro like transit and transportation.

The 37(?) municipalities of Jefferson County have to agree 1st. That's always the stumbling block - power and control. Add in the 30 or so other municipalities in the metro and, well, ...

not anymore, that bill was passed already to correct that roadblock

(04-26-2017 01:14 PM)WesternBlazer Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 12:55 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)blazerjay Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:36 PM)blazer-J Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:21 PM)panama Wrote:  What if it's cheaper to build open air plus expand BJCC convention space?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

I agree.
Build the open air stadium for $125m and build an additional convention hall.
Surely you could build one with the equivalent floor space of a football field for around $50m. It would be way cheaper.

An open air stadium with the amenities to attempt to attract the events the Mayor mentioned would cost a lot more than $125m. Such a stadium would likely be more in the ~$250-400m range for the capacity required (65,000 minimum to bid on CFB Playoff Championship Game).

For reference, Baylor's 45,000 seat stadium cost $266m; Minnesota's 50,000 seat stadium cost $303m and Colorado State's soon to open 41,000 seat stadium is costing $202m.

a CFB Playoff or CFB Championship game is not coming to Birmingham. Those games are held in Super Bowl arenas. Neither is the SEC Championship coming back. Most of the things quoted in that article are never coming back to Birmingham. The time to build the dome was in the MAPS era. Now things have moved too far beyond and we don't have the money. We've raised taxes beyond the point of MAPS and spent it on other things like a Westin hotel (which should have made the money back but we never hear about that) or schools (not that school funding is a bad thing)

We should build a venue appropriate to what Birmingham is now and what can be reasonably accomplished in the next 20 years. Never going to be Phoenix or Atlanta. Let's build a nice open air stadium that is extremely complementary to UAB's needs, and to the needs of the existing Legion Field facility. Let's expand the BJCC Arena sso we can get early rounds of the NCAA tournament back like we used to have. Let's spend the rest on things that will help the entire metro like transit and transportation.

The 37(?) municipalities of Jefferson County have to agree 1st. That's always the stumbling block - power and control. Add in the 30 or so other municipalities in the metro and, well, ...

Even if that were true, that doesn't mean we should just pour good money down the drain on a dome instead

This thing just won't end. We'll be talking about what would and should happen for another 10 years. After all the dome talks in Birmingham have been going since 1998 from my memory and probably since before then.

MAPS (the Metropolitan Area Projects Strategy) was a 1998 proposal to fund a number of capital, transit and development projects, including a new domed stadium or convention facility, in the Birmingham Metropolitan Area.

The plan, which failed to win necessary voter approval, called for a $525 million sale of bonds to be paid off by an increase in sales and lodging taxes (projected to raise as much as $697 million). About half of the bond revenue was earmarked for a "multi-purpose convention and entertainment facility," more often described as a "domed stadium."

The MAPS proposal was created by a steering committee made up of Larry Lemak, Richard Scrushy, Elmer Harris, Larry Striplin, Mary Buckelew, Richard Arrington, and Jabo Waggoner. The campaign for public support was headed by Donald Hess. The committee and its campaign chair volunteered their time and effort. Rick Horrow, a facility development consultant with the National Football League was hired to assist their efforts. The name and structure of the MAPS proposal was drawn from a similar 1993 proposal which was approved by voters in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

The Alabama Legislature passed Act 98-127, authorizing the projects and creating a self-governing agency, the Jefferson County Progress Authority, to administer the funds. A special referendum was set for August 4, 1998, to approve or rescind the measure. Opponents of the proposal formed a group called "RAPS" (Real Accountability, Progress, and Solutions).

Voters defeated the proposal by a vote of 57 to 43 percent. The turnout was the largest since the 1992 presidential election. 96,490 voters, mostly in the communities surrounding Birmingham, opposed the project, while 71,495 voters, mostly inside Birmingham, supported it.

(04-26-2017 03:45 PM)ATTALLABLAZE Wrote:  MAPS (the Metropolitan Area Projects Strategy) was a 1998 proposal to fund a number of capital, transit and development projects, including a new domed stadium or convention facility, in the Birmingham Metropolitan Area.

The plan, which failed to win necessary voter approval, called for a $525 million sale of bonds to be paid off by an increase in sales and lodging taxes (projected to raise as much as $697 million). About half of the bond revenue was earmarked for a "multi-purpose convention and entertainment facility," more often described as a "domed stadium."

The MAPS proposal was created by a steering committee made up of Larry Lemak, Richard Scrushy, Elmer Harris, Larry Striplin, Mary Buckelew, Richard Arrington, and Jabo Waggoner. The campaign for public support was headed by Donald Hess. The committee and its campaign chair volunteered their time and effort. Rick Horrow, a facility development consultant with the National Football League was hired to assist their efforts. The name and structure of the MAPS proposal was drawn from a similar 1993 proposal which was approved by voters in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

The Alabama Legislature passed Act 98-127, authorizing the projects and creating a self-governing agency, the Jefferson County Progress Authority, to administer the funds. A special referendum was set for August 4, 1998, to approve or rescind the measure. Opponents of the proposal formed a group called "RAPS" (Real Accountability, Progress, and Solutions).

Voters defeated the proposal by a vote of 57 to 43 percent. The turnout was the largest since the 1992 presidential election. 96,490 voters, mostly in the communities surrounding Birmingham, opposed the project, while 71,495 voters, mostly inside Birmingham, supported it.

Following the vote, B'ham approached Gov. Riley about state support. He replied that state support would only come if the suburbs and the city spoke with a unified voice. This position effectively gave the (Republican) suburbs veto power over such a growth project in the (Democratic) city. That is where the proposal has been since that time. B'ham still wants to grow and prosper, and the surrounding population continues to resist that happening. Since then the state has tried to intervene in the city by laws on the Water Works, City Council pay and city laws on Minimum Wages.