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Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #21
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
Couple of references to this topic:

Tyrone Willingham was fired from Notre Dame in 2004, after 21-15 tenure and a 6-5 season. When he was dismissed, the media immediately pointed to race as the deciding factor as to why he was dismissed (despite the high national expectations at a school like Notre Dame). Willingham immediately gets hired at Washington and proceeds to go 11-37 in four years, including a golden 0-12 in his final year.

Joker Phillips had the same situation in 2012, after posting a 2-10 record at Kentucky (and 13-24 record in three years). Not once did he have a winning record, but that didn't stop the race discussion from popping up.

How about Sylvester Croom at Mississippi State? First SEC African American Head Coach in history. He goes 21-38 in five seasons, including just one winning season and losing 25% of SEC games. When he was dismissed, race was brought up.

Darrell Hazell was just fired at Purdue, after going 9-33 in four years - including just three wins in B1G play. I saw at least one news story that referenced race in his dismissal.

Turner Gill was fired just after two years at Kansas, but he went 5-19 in those two years there, and he went 1-16 in Big 12 play. (And he never beat Texas!). Again, race is used.

Bottom line, it an easy accusation to blame race on why a head coach gets canned. It gets clicks on the internet, it gets people talking and, most of all, it gets the public divided and riled up. Coaches get fired for wins and losses, period. If you don't win, or more importantly, meet the fans expectations at your school, you won't have your job for long.

To say that Charlie Strong was fired over race is absurd. He just lost to a Kansas football team that hadn't beat Texas in over 75 years. Texas is a power football program, and they didn't once play like it under his tenure.
11-29-2016 02:48 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
Ruff gave ECU the best chance to compete right now. He was also the best coach that they could get right now. ECU was always dangerous with Ruff at the helm. A few more years to stabilize things on the depth chart and ECU would have been contending for championships. Stupid move but I'll take it.
11-29-2016 02:51 PM
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Jesterondirt Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
Discussion topic before this thread gets moved. If you keep a minority that is under achieving or under qualified in that job position only because of being afraid that removing them would create backlash from the community over firing a minority, is that helping or hurting future minority individuals obtain jobs?
11-29-2016 02:51 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
Connecticut giving football advice at any level is a crime against humanity
11-29-2016 02:55 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:48 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Couple of references to this topic:

Tyrone Willingham was fired from Notre Dame in 2004, after 21-15 tenure and a 6-5 season. When he was dismissed, the media immediately pointed to race as the deciding factor as to why he was dismissed (despite the high national expectations at a school like Notre Dame). Willingham immediately gets hired at Washington and proceeds to go 11-37 in four years, including a golden 0-12 in his final year.

Joker Phillips had the same situation in 2012, after posting a 2-10 record at Kentucky (and 13-24 record in three years). Not once did he have a winning record, but that didn't stop the race discussion from popping up.

How about Sylvester Croom at Mississippi State? First SEC African American Head Coach in history. He goes 21-38 in five seasons, including just one winning season and losing 25% of SEC games. When he was dismissed, race was brought up.

Darrell Hazell was just fired at Purdue, after going 9-33 in four years - including just three wins in B1G play. I saw at least one news story that referenced race in his dismissal.

Turner Gill was fired just after two years at Kansas, but he went 5-19 in those two years there, and he went 1-16 in Big 12 play. (And he never beat Texas!). Again, race is used.

Bottom line, it an easy accusation to blame race on why a head coach gets canned. It gets clicks on the internet, it gets people talking and, most of all, it gets the public divided and riled up. Coaches get fired for wins and losses, period. If you don't win, or more importantly, meet the fans expectations at your school, you won't have your job for long.

To say that Charlie Strong was fired over race is absurd. He just lost to a Kansas football team that hadn't beat Texas in over 75 years. Texas is a power football program, and they didn't once play like it under his tenure.

Willingham posted the exact same 21-15 record as Charlie Weis, who succeeded him, in their first 36 games. Weis was rewarded with a contract extension. That was BS. I think that Croom resigned, right?

I don't know if it is so much about race but if you are "one of us" the boosters might give you an extra year to prove yourself. If you aren't, then you won't. .ie Will Muschamp, Derek Dooley, Houston Nutt,
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2016 02:57 PM by firmbizzle.)
11-29-2016 02:56 PM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
Talk about race baiting. ECU freakin hired a black dude to replace Ruff and Strong went 16-21 at a school that is #1 in revenue.

Then this guy steps further into the mud by then claiming the hiring of a black guy at ECU was to avoid looking racist. Holy cow.

I grew up in the north, went to UMass undergrad, raised in a very liberal family then worked in Boston for 5 years. Went to grad school in the deep south and still live in the deep south. I work in finance with about 80% republicans. What I am saying is that I have had a very diversified political experience and it blows my mind how nutty people on the far left and far right can be. It's either everything is racist or nothing is racist. Crazy stuff.
11-29-2016 03:00 PM
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NBPirate Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:45 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Ruffin's firing was justified when you look at how stacked a few of his teams were with guys like Shane Carden and Justin Hardy, and he didn't win anything.

But, but, but, he won the Beef O' Brady's Bowl!!!
11-29-2016 03:01 PM
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firmbizzle Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:45 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Ruffin's firing was justified when you look at how stacked a few of his teams were with guys like Shane Carden and Justin Hardy, and he didn't win anything.

Their defenses were terrible.
11-29-2016 03:03 PM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:00 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Talk about race baiting. ECU freakin hired a black dude to replace Ruff and Strong went 16-21 at a school that is #1 in revenue.

Then this guy steps further into the mud by then claiming the hiring of a black guy at ECU was to avoid looking racist. Holy cow.

I grew up in the north, went to UMass undergrad, raised in a very liberal family then worked in Boston for 5 years. Went to grad school in the deep south and still live in the deep south. I work in finance with about 80% republicans. What I am saying is that I have had a very diversified political experience and it blows my mind how nutty people on the far left and far right can be. It's either everything is racist or nothing is racist. Crazy stuff.

Look dude, I was just posting an article. I never claimed that ECU hired a black guy at ECU to avoid looking racist. I said that they "possibly" did. This is a debate based on an article and not necessarily my personal opinion.

Learn basic reading comprehension before you spout your drivel next time. Anyway, it amazes me how absolutely whiny white men get when the topic of race comes up. Boo hoo. Get over it.
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11-29-2016 03:11 PM
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acc4life Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:24 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Lots of southerners getting defensive about not being racist on here. That is usually a sign of admittance! LOL


I'm not racist; a black man works for me (sarcasm)!
11-29-2016 03:13 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #31
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:56 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:48 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Couple of references to this topic:

Tyrone Willingham was fired from Notre Dame in 2004, after 21-15 tenure and a 6-5 season. When he was dismissed, the media immediately pointed to race as the deciding factor as to why he was dismissed (despite the high national expectations at a school like Notre Dame). Willingham immediately gets hired at Washington and proceeds to go 11-37 in four years, including a golden 0-12 in his final year.

Joker Phillips had the same situation in 2012, after posting a 2-10 record at Kentucky (and 13-24 record in three years). Not once did he have a winning record, but that didn't stop the race discussion from popping up.

How about Sylvester Croom at Mississippi State? First SEC African American Head Coach in history. He goes 21-38 in five seasons, including just one winning season and losing 25% of SEC games. When he was dismissed, race was brought up.

Darrell Hazell was just fired at Purdue, after going 9-33 in four years - including just three wins in B1G play. I saw at least one news story that referenced race in his dismissal.

Turner Gill was fired just after two years at Kansas, but he went 5-19 in those two years there, and he went 1-16 in Big 12 play. (And he never beat Texas!). Again, race is used.

Bottom line, it an easy accusation to blame race on why a head coach gets canned. It gets clicks on the internet, it gets people talking and, most of all, it gets the public divided and riled up. Coaches get fired for wins and losses, period. If you don't win, or more importantly, meet the fans expectations at your school, you won't have your job for long.

To say that Charlie Strong was fired over race is absurd. He just lost to a Kansas football team that hadn't beat Texas in over 75 years. Texas is a power football program, and they didn't once play like it under his tenure.

Willingham posted the exact same 21-15 record as Charlie Weis, who succeeded him, in their first 36 games. Weis was rewarded with a contract extension. That was BS. I think that Croom resigned, right?

I don't know if it is so much about race but if you are "one of us" the boosters might give you an extra year to prove yourself. If you aren't, then you won't. .ie Will Muschamp, Derek Dooley, Houston Nutt,

Charlie Weis received his extension while reaching two consecutive BCS bowl game appearances, and because Notre Dame thought that he would bolt to the NFL. Everyone in hindsight thinks that was a terrible move, but - even in today's standards - if you get a great coach you want to lock them up for a long time.

Willingham never went to a BCS Bowl with Notre Dame, and had two very underperforming seasons to close out his tenure. Heck, Willingham by the end of his tenure at Notre Dame (not even including Washington) only went to a bowl game in 5 of his 10 seasons as a head coach.

One coach reeked of averageness, while the other's stock was soaring. It's no wonder why one received a massive extension and the other didn't.
11-29-2016 03:14 PM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:13 PM)acc4life Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:24 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Lots of southerners getting defensive about not being racist on here. That is usually a sign of admittance! LOL


I'm not racist; a black man works for me (sarcasm)!

+1. Finally somebody not taking this thread so dang seriously and defensively!
11-29-2016 03:16 PM
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shere khan Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:16 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 03:13 PM)acc4life Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:24 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  Lots of southerners getting defensive about not being racist on here. That is usually a sign of admittance! LOL


I'm not racist; a black man works for me (sarcasm)!

+1. Finally somebody not taking this thread so dang seriously and defensively!
You opened a can. Lol
11-29-2016 03:24 PM
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Thegoldstandard Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:21 PM)PaulDel2 Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:09 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think that this article nails it correctly when the author states that Texas boosters were never behind Charlie Strong because he was black. Ruffin McNeill can probably relate as most of us would agree that his firing at ECU was not fully warranted (and he would almost have certainly been given an additional season to prove himself if he were white). The fact that there is truth behind this racial bias at the head coaching level is totally messed up.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/local_...9ca32.html

Talk about stereotyping. So if a school in a southern state fires an African American coach is because of race? Dude have you ever been south of Manhattan? And I don't mean Manhattan Kansas.
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11-29-2016 03:25 PM
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wavefan12 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:11 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 03:00 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  Talk about race baiting. ECU freakin hired a black dude to replace Ruff and Strong went 16-21 at a school that is #1 in revenue.

Then this guy steps further into the mud by then claiming the hiring of a black guy at ECU was to avoid looking racist. Holy cow.

I grew up in the north, went to UMass undergrad, raised in a very liberal family then worked in Boston for 5 years. Went to grad school in the deep south and still live in the deep south. I work in finance with about 80% republicans. What I am saying is that I have had a very diversified political experience and it blows my mind how nutty people on the far left and far right can be. It's either everything is racist or nothing is racist. Crazy stuff.

Look dude, I was just posting an article. I never claimed that ECU hired a black guy at ECU to avoid looking racist. I said that they "possibly" did. This is a debate based on an article and not necessarily my personal opinion.

Learn basic reading comprehension before you spout your drivel next time. Anyway, it amazes me how absolutely whiny white men get when the topic of race comes up. Boo hoo. Get over it.
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Your original premise was so absurd with Strong that any other thought on this matter is useless.

Don't give me this passive aggressive crap regarding race, you have no clue. You can't just make a statement on Texas without addressing the fact that they are a multi billion dollar entity with a coach posting 16-21 (12-15). So what's the excuse for Oregon looking at firing Helfrich for going 37-16 (24-12)?

Oh for reference, I am on the board of a group that provides homes to african american families in tough areas and my wife teaches in an all black school. But I am just a whiny white guy, right? Like I said, far left/right people are nutty, not only in their thought process but their statements and arguments. (Now I know what comes next in your fruity mind, I am racist cause I have to show how I am not racist, I know how this works, deal with you fruit cakes all the time).
(This post was last modified: 11-29-2016 03:31 PM by wavefan12.)
11-29-2016 03:25 PM
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Post: #36
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:46 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  From 1951 to the present, the fewest games coached other than Charlie Strong (30) was David McWilliams (57). Problem?


In the old days they played 10 games a season and very few bowl games. Now they play 12 or 13 games plus half the teams go to a bowl game. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE in number of games coached.

Nice try though.
11-29-2016 03:28 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:28 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:46 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  From 1951 to the present, the fewest games coached other than Charlie Strong (30) was David McWilliams (57). Problem?


In the old days they played 10 games a season and very few bowl games. Now they play 12 or 13 games plus half the teams go to a bowl game. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE in number of games coached.

Nice try though.

So tired of reading crap like this. So when did real journalism really die?
11-29-2016 03:48 PM
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wylioats Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 02:09 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think that this article nails it correctly when the author states that Texas boosters were never behind Charlie Strong because he was black. Ruffin McNeill can probably relate as most of us would agree that his firing at ECU was not fully warranted (and he would almost have certainly been given an additional season to prove himself if he were white). The fact that there is truth behind this racial bias at the head coaching level is totally messed up.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/local_...9ca32.html

Judging by your sig, maybe you should jump on the Hillary train and go help her on the vote recount. Liberals, gotta love em. And no, I'm not racist, don't have a racist bone in my body. When I see something I think is racist, I'll be the first to attack it and call it out. Hate to tell you bub, but this one ain't about race, it's about a coach that under performed and couldn't get the job done. Race card? yea that's it.
11-29-2016 03:55 PM
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vcoog Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
The only problem they have in common is their W/L ratio. Strong would have shut everyone up if he was in the midst of a 10 win season.
11-29-2016 03:57 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Charlie Strong and Ruffin McNeill - different school, same problem (skin color)
(11-29-2016 03:55 PM)wylioats Wrote:  
(11-29-2016 02:09 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  I think that this article nails it correctly when the author states that Texas boosters were never behind Charlie Strong because he was black. Ruffin McNeill can probably relate as most of us would agree that his firing at ECU was not fully warranted (and he would almost have certainly been given an additional season to prove himself if he were white). The fact that there is truth behind this racial bias at the head coaching level is totally messed up.

http://www.stlamerican.com/sports/local_...9ca32.html

Judging by your sig, maybe you should jump on the Hillary train and go help her on the vote recount. Liberals, gotta love em. And no, I'm not racist, don't have a racist bone in my body. When I see something I think is racist, I'll be the first to attack it and call it out. Hate to tell you bub, but this one ain't about race, it's about a coach that under performed and couldn't get the job done. Race card? yea that's it.

I am not a big Hillary fan, but I do dislike Trump. He is racist and unqualified for the job. Conservatives, gotta love em.
11-29-2016 03:58 PM
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