(11-24-2016 10:18 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 12:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  This is getting quite a bit of play on the realignment board:

The weekend of December 3rd this year the SBC will get not one but TWO football games on a major ESPN Network. This will be the first time in league history that a Saturday Inter Conference Football Game will be played on a major ESPN Network.

As we are seeing this year, ESPN is beginning to run into inventory issues Week 14. 8 conferences are currently holding title games, with the Big 12 starting in 2017. With some of those games being contracted to non ESPN networks, their inventory is low, and the only fill in choices are SBC games, and FCS Playoff games.

If ESPN was to offer the Sun Belt a guaranteed TWO games each season on either ESPN or ESPN2 on that first Saturday in December, would you favor the conference dropping the Football Title game slated for 2018 in order to gain additional TV exposure that last week?

In a heartbeat. Not so much because of the ESPN games but I question how much a CCG is good for us.

Having a stupid title game is better than the alternative for two reasons.

1. We will never again have to hear about someone missing a team and "sharing" a title.

2. You don't want to be the only league with no title game. Kids want to play for titles. If a CUSA coach can toss out a silly title game pitch to a kid he might be swayed by it. I mean we are talking about kids who factor uniforms in to their decision making.


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(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:36 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons of nine teams where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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I understand how it works. The issue I outlined still remains.

Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


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Sorry, that dog won't hunt in these woods.

Many a teams chances to play in a better bowl game has been ruined by a COG. BTW, costing the conference tons of dollars. You can not apply any sport where teams play multiple times during the season to football. Football is a totally different animal. How many football teams play one day then the next day or two days later like a baseball or a basketball tournament?

(11-24-2016 10:39 AM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

Well put.

Thank you...

The only thing a COG at the G5 level is good for is TV exposure and a few dollars. Teams playing a COG and bowl game is a 14 game schedule. That's nuts. Yes I went through the 1-AA / FCS playoffs many times and the thing you have to remember is most FCS conferences are bus leagues, not stretched out over 7-8 states. Tiime away for players during the season is minimal and the players are not as big and physical across the board as in FBS. Plus it is my opnion many national champions were the team which had suffered the least number of injuries by the end of the season, not the most talented team. I watched App lose to several teams we were better than deep in the playoffs just because we had injuries to key players. Not that long ago teams played 12 games a season with a bowl game. Now that's just the regular season. It's being driven by ESPN and the TV networks and the allure of the almighty dollar. Nothing more.

(11-24-2016 10:58 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:36 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons of nine teams where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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I understand how it works. The issue I outlined still remains.

Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


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Sorry, that dog won't hunt in these woods.

Many a teams chances to play in a better bowl game has been ruined by a COG. BTW, costing the conference tons of dollars. You can not apply any sport where teams play multiple times during the season to football. Football is a totally different animal. How many football teams play one day then the next day or two days later like a baseball or a basketball tournament?

The loss ruined their chances. Not the game itself. Don't lose the game.


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(11-24-2016 09:28 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons of nine teams where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

There is no if guys. 2018 title game is on the books.

We kicked them out because it helped the money and we no longer needed 12 to have a title game.


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It's sort of on the books. We've not specified anything about it, other than saying we are looking into how it will work. There's still plenty of time to change it back.

We don't even have a guaranteed TV contract for it, though it's probable ESPN will take it.

(11-24-2016 11:41 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:28 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons of nine teams where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

There is no if guys. 2018 title game is on the books.

We kicked them out because it helped the money and we no longer needed 12 to have a title game.


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It's sort of on the books. We've not specified anything about it, other than saying we are looking into how it will work. There's still plenty of time to change it back.

We don't even have a guaranteed TV contract for it, though it's probable ESPN will take it.

It's booked with pencil.


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(11-24-2016 11:46 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:41 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:28 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

There is no if guys. 2018 title game is on the books.

We kicked them out because it helped the money and we no longer needed 12 to have a title game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's sort of on the books. We've not specified anything about it, other than saying we are looking into how it will work. There's still plenty of time to change it back.

We don't even have a guaranteed TV contract for it, though it's probable ESPN will take it.

It's booked with pencil.


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In Karl Benson's coloring book.

(11-24-2016 12:08 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:46 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 11:41 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:28 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

There is no if guys. 2018 title game is on the books.

We kicked them out because it helped the money and we no longer needed 12 to have a title game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's sort of on the books. We've not specified anything about it, other than saying we are looking into how it will work. There's still plenty of time to change it back.

We don't even have a guaranteed TV contract for it, though it's probable ESPN will take it.

It's booked with pencil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In Karl Benson's coloring book.

Haha


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(11-24-2016 10:40 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:14 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:36 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




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I understand how it works. The issue I outlined still remains.

Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


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Basketball post season is completely different then football post season, so that was a bad analogy. CCG have ruined teams chances at better bowl, New Years bowls and could ruin teams from making the 4 team playoff.

It has been played in empty stadiums for the G5 conferences. And right now, the division of conferences separates us and Troy, I don't care for that.

Postseason basketball is completely different because they actually play games rather than let a group of people decide the best teams.

Our conference title game will be hosted by the top team. Do you think that attendance is going to be an issue for a ASU/APP title game?

The only way it ruins anything is if you lose as the favorite. That is nobody else's fault. Play the game. Win the game. Move on.

Only thing worse than what we do right now would be to play 9 God forsaken Sun Belt games.


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Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

Now that's the first sensible idea I've heard all day.

(11-24-2016 12:19 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:40 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:14 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:36 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I understand how it works. The issue I outlined still remains.

Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


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Basketball post season is completely different then football post season, so that was a bad analogy. CCG have ruined teams chances at better bowl, New Years bowls and could ruin teams from making the 4 team playoff.

It has been played in empty stadiums for the G5 conferences. And right now, the division of conferences separates us and Troy, I don't care for that.

Postseason basketball is completely different because they actually play games rather than let a group of people decide the best teams.

Our conference title game will be hosted by the top team. Do you think that attendance is going to be an issue for a ASU/APP title game?

The only way it ruins anything is if you lose as the favorite. That is nobody else's fault. Play the game. Win the game. Move on.

Only thing worse than what we do right now would be to play 9 God forsaken Sun Belt games.


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Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

That excluding a P5 (can't afford) or a home and home G5 (several on the books) would be a terrible idea?

Does anyone here follow anything outside the Belt? Big12 is starting a CCG again for a reason. It's stupid not to have one.


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(11-24-2016 01:49 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

Now that's the first sensible idea I've heard all day.

Then you are forcing some West teams to have to potentially travel to Idaho and NMSU every year.

(11-24-2016 02:01 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 12:19 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:40 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:14 AM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Basketball post season is completely different then football post season, so that was a bad analogy. CCG have ruined teams chances at better bowl, New Years bowls and could ruin teams from making the 4 team playoff.

It has been played in empty stadiums for the G5 conferences. And right now, the division of conferences separates us and Troy, I don't care for that.

Postseason basketball is completely different because they actually play games rather than let a group of people decide the best teams.

Our conference title game will be hosted by the top team. Do you think that attendance is going to be an issue for a ASU/APP title game?

The only way it ruins anything is if you lose as the favorite. That is nobody else's fault. Play the game. Win the game. Move on.

Only thing worse than what we do right now would be to play 9 God forsaken Sun Belt games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

That excluding a P5 (can't afford) or a home and home G5 (several on the books) would be a terrible idea?

Does anyone here follow anything outside the Belt? Big12 is starting a CCG again for a reason. It's stupid not to have one.


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One reason the Big 12 is starting one is they thought not having one might keep them out of the playoffs. We don't have that concern.

(11-24-2016 06:50 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 02:01 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 12:19 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:40 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:14 AM)Usajags Wrote:  Basketball post season is completely different then football post season, so that was a bad analogy. CCG have ruined teams chances at better bowl, New Years bowls and could ruin teams from making the 4 team playoff.

It has been played in empty stadiums for the G5 conferences. And right now, the division of conferences separates us and Troy, I don't care for that.

Postseason basketball is completely different because they actually play games rather than let a group of people decide the best teams.

Our conference title game will be hosted by the top team. Do you think that attendance is going to be an issue for a ASU/APP title game?

The only way it ruins anything is if you lose as the favorite. That is nobody else's fault. Play the game. Win the game. Move on.

Only thing worse than what we do right now would be to play 9 God forsaken Sun Belt games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

That excluding a P5 (can't afford) or a home and home G5 (several on the books) would be a terrible idea?

Does anyone here follow anything outside the Belt? Big12 is starting a CCG again for a reason. It's stupid not to have one.


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One reason the Big 12 is starting one is they thought not having one might keep them out of the playoffs. We don't have that concern.

We do if the playoff expands to 8 one day.


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(11-24-2016 11:05 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:58 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:38 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:36 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:09 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  We will have two divisions and 8 games. You'll play 4 conference games in your division and 4 from the other side, missing one team.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I understand how it works. The issue I outlined still remains.

Has it ruined any of the other conference title games to have a rematch?

Has it ruined post season basketball?

If your answer is yes to both of those then, ok. If your answer is no to either, than you're contradicting yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, that dog won't hunt in these woods.

Many a teams chances to play in a better bowl game has been ruined by a COG. BTW, costing the conference tons of dollars. You can not apply any sport where teams play multiple times during the season to football. Football is a totally different animal. How many football teams play one day then the next day or two days later like a baseball or a basketball tournament?

The loss ruined their chances. Not the game itself. Don't lose the game.


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Yea, I'm not sure how playing a Conference Championship game hurts a better bowl. If you're deserving of being in a better bowl, then you'll win. A lose just proves you're not. If the schedules are uneven, its not a guarantee the best team wins the conference if they don't play the other top teams in the conference, a CCG settles that with two divisions and everyone plays each other in the division! If you can't win a Championship game, you don't deserve a better bowl ... Just win baby!

(11-24-2016 06:51 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 06:50 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 02:01 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 12:19 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 10:40 AM)WolfBird Wrote:  Postseason basketball is completely different because they actually play games rather than let a group of people decide the best teams.

Our conference title game will be hosted by the top team. Do you think that attendance is going to be an issue for a ASU/APP title game?

The only way it ruins anything is if you lose as the favorite. That is nobody else's fault. Play the game. Win the game. Move on.

Only thing worse than what we do right now would be to play 9 God forsaken Sun Belt games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

That excluding a P5 (can't afford) or a home and home G5 (several on the books) would be a terrible idea?

Does anyone here follow anything outside the Belt? Big12 is starting a CCG again for a reason. It's stupid not to have one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One reason the Big 12 is starting one is they thought not having one might keep them out of the playoffs. We don't have that concern.

We do if the playoff expands to 8 one day.


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Then the conference will reassess their strategy. Not having a championship game now doesn't mean they can't add one later if they feel it is beneficial to the conference.

(11-24-2016 07:01 PM)rokamortis Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 06:51 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 06:50 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 02:01 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 12:19 PM)Usajags Wrote:  Maybe this is the real reason for the problem with your thinking.

That excluding a P5 (can't afford) or a home and home G5 (several on the books) would be a terrible idea?

Does anyone here follow anything outside the Belt? Big12 is starting a CCG again for a reason. It's stupid not to have one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One reason the Big 12 is starting one is they thought not having one might keep them out of the playoffs. We don't have that concern.

We do if the playoff expands to 8 one day.


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Then the conference will reassess their strategy. Not having a championship game now doesn't mean they can't add one later if they feel it is beneficial to the conference.

But not having to have one isn't a valid reason to not have one.

The very simple fact that never again will we have some idiotic three way tie for the championship is reason enough to have one.

App and ASU will be the only teams regularly appearing so let them play a few and then let them decide for everyone what we should do.


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(11-24-2016 09:04 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  I don't see much value in a COG. What's the use of playing a conference schedule only to possibly have to beat a team again to be the champion. Or why give a team that's already been beat the opportunity to win a championship. Let's say A State goes undefeated and Troy & App wind up tied for 2nd with 1 loss. Troy has the tiebreaker and plays A State in the COG and wins. Troy is the conference champion even though the teams are 1-1 against each other. Why should Troy's win be more important than A State's win? The only way I'd be in favor is if the conference had two divisons where none of the teams played any from the other division. That winner would truly be a conference champion.

Under your scenario......what happens if the winner from one division has 2 losses (tough division) and the winner from the other division is undefeated when they play and the team with two losses wins that CG game? Is it fair to call them champions when they have two losses and the other team still only has one loss? Especially if the team with two conference losses pulled an ASU and went winless in OOC play while the team that went undefeated in their division was also undefeated overall and was 12-0 going into the CG?

(11-24-2016 06:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 01:49 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

Now that's the first sensible idea I've heard all day.

Then you are forcing some West teams to have to potentially travel to Idaho and NMSU every year.

I prefer to think of it as extending you the privilege of passage to north Idaho, the greatest place on earth. Besides, we pay travel subs.

(11-24-2016 09:42 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 06:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 01:49 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  

(11-24-2016 09:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  If we are going to championship game, we should just keep Idaho and NMSU and play actual 6 team divisions. Keep it clean with a proven method.

Now that's the first sensible idea I've heard all day.

Then you are forcing some West teams to have to potentially travel to Idaho and NMSU every year.

I prefer to think of it as extending you the privilege of passage to north Idaho, the greatest place on earth. Besides, we pay travel subs.

Place nmsu in the west, Idaho in the east then each division team only 1 long trip every 2 seasons