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#ProDukes (Archived)
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jmufan2008 Offline
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Post: #1361
RE: #ProDukes
I don't want to see Ben be the starter, but I also wouldn't mind him getting a few more snaps in a meaningful game situation...at least let him sling one pass. Like others have said, what Ben has over the two other Dallas QBs is mobility. His specialty is rolling out and throwing the ball from whatever position he can. I don't think it'd be advantageous to put him in and put all of the pressure of the Dallas Cowboys franchise on him, but I do think his skillset as a mobile QB could even out with Dalton's experience. It's definitely interesting and even getting in for a drive or two to get WFT off their game could be fun to watch.
10-20-2020 01:45 PM
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fishingduke12 Offline
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Post: #1362
RE: #ProDukes
(10-20-2020 11:03 AM)DukeQuin Wrote:  If you want DiNucci to have a chance at a lengthy career and to hit his ceiling, whatever that is, I don't think you want him stepping in for Dalton for any length of time, at least not while the division is still competitive (hah). Dalton won't be in Dallas next year, but if DiNucci is forced to come in soon and try to learn the NFL game behind that offensive line he'll struggle mightily, and that might be enough to make McCarthy and the other decisionmakers decide they need a more experienced backup next year as well. Best outcome for him is still running the scout team so the coaches can see him pick up the playbook, getting a few practice reps with the first team, and here or there throwing a pass or two, to justify being the cheap backup that they can keep around or flip for a draft pick.

Ben was drafted to be McCarthy's developmental QB, he was not expected to even be the backup this year so I think any positive things he does will greatly outweigh the negatives that I'm sure will come. I think best outcome is Ben does enough to stay on the team, Cowboys put the franchise tag again on Dak for one year next year then goes somewhere else after and maybe Ben gets a shot in year 3
10-20-2020 03:14 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #1363
RE: #ProDukes
I am absolutely amazed at the negativity I am reading in this thread. Nooch belongs where he is. He is not some usurping imposter who snuck in under the tent flap. As I said months ago, and which some slammed me for, Nooch is better than Andy Dalton. Dalton is a bum. Dallas didn't draft and retain Nooch because they need a chump to beat up in practice. They drafted and retained him because they are experts at evaluating horseflesh. Nooch is better now than Tony Romo was at the same point in his career. The front office in Frisco knows this, even if many posters on this board do not.
10-20-2020 07:43 PM
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DoubleDogDare Offline
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Post: #1364
RE: #ProDukes
(10-20-2020 07:43 PM)Purple Wrote:  I am absolutely amazed at the negativity I am reading in this thread. Nooch belongs where he is. He is not some usurping imposter who snuck in under the tent flap. As I said months ago, and which some slammed me for, Nooch is better than Andy Dalton. Dalton is a bum. Dallas didn't draft and retain Nooch because they need a chump to beat up in practice. They drafted and retained him because they are experts at evaluating horseflesh. Nooch is better now than Tony Romo was at the same point in his career. The front office in Frisco knows this, even if many posters on this board do not.

?
10-21-2020 07:32 AM
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jmu98 Offline
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Post: #1365
RE: #ProDukes
Biggest problem for Nooch is that his cart is hooked to McCarthy right now and if things don't improve he may not be long for the big D.
10-21-2020 09:08 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #1366
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 09:08 AM)jmu98 Wrote:  Biggest problem for Nooch is that his cart is hooked to McCarthy right now and if things don't improve he may not be long for the big D.

While Jerry Jones is unpredictable, I believe McCarthy's job is safe as can be. He's in his first year of a 5-year deal worth $30M. As sad as it is, his team will likely battle the Iggles to see who can get to 6 or 7 wins and make the playoffs as perhaps the absolute worst division winner in NFL history to get a playoff bid. Also, he will get a mulligan having lost his Pro Bowl QB one-third of the way into the season no matter what happens I think.

If McCarthy was in year 3 or 4 of his 5-year deal, I'd be more likely to agree with you.

Just one idiot's opinion of course.

(what I'm curious to see is how this affects Prescott's value...he turned down a boatload of money and now he may be another Alex Smith in terms of getting back, if ever, 100% to NFL-ready...kinda feel for him, but kinda don't as I think he was pretty greedy...turning down $175M over 5 years - that's $35M a year)
10-21-2020 10:52 AM
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DukeQuin Offline
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Post: #1367
RE: #ProDukes
(10-20-2020 07:43 PM)Purple Wrote:  I am absolutely amazed at the negativity I am reading in this thread. Nooch belongs where he is. He is not some usurping imposter who snuck in under the tent flap. As I said months ago, and which some slammed me for, Nooch is better than Andy Dalton. Dalton is a bum. Dallas didn't draft and retain Nooch because they need a chump to beat up in practice. They drafted and retained him because they are experts at evaluating horseflesh. Nooch is better now than Tony Romo was at the same point in his career. The front office in Frisco knows this, even if many posters on this board do not.


There isn't a single front office in the league that, if they had to choose between starting one of the two, would go with DiNucci over Dalton, and it's not an insult to say that. The Cowboys are very bad for a lot of reasons, including injuries and coaching, but effort and misreading of talent are also hurting them. If they were so good at evaluating DiNucci, they likely didn't miss on evaluating Dalton either.
10-21-2020 12:03 PM
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DukeQuin Offline
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Post: #1368
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 10:52 AM)Wear Purple Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 09:08 AM)jmu98 Wrote:  Biggest problem for Nooch is that his cart is hooked to McCarthy right now and if things don't improve he may not be long for the big D.

While Jerry Jones is unpredictable, I believe McCarthy's job is safe as can be. He's in his first year of a 5-year deal worth $30M. As sad as it is, his team will likely battle the Iggles to see who can get to 6 or 7 wins and make the playoffs as perhaps the absolute worst division winner in NFL history to get a playoff bid. Also, he will get a mulligan having lost his Pro Bowl QB one-third of the way into the season no matter what happens I think.

If McCarthy was in year 3 or 4 of his 5-year deal, I'd be more likely to agree with you.

Just one idiot's opinion of course.

(what I'm curious to see is how this affects Prescott's value...he turned down a boatload of money and now he may be another Alex Smith in terms of getting back, if ever, 100% to NFL-ready...kinda feel for him, but kinda don't as I think he was pretty greedy...turning down $175M over 5 years - that's $35M a year)

I understand his thinking, though. He wanted 4 years and a chance to test the market again while he was still young enough to get anothe 4-year contract like that. Pre-COVID, the way the salary cap was going, it was a risky bet with a very lucrative potential payoff. Between COVID and the injury he's likely to get tagged again, but even that's going to get him north of $40m for next season.
10-21-2020 12:14 PM
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Dukes84 Offline
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Post: #1369
RE: #ProDukes
A lot of good points brought up on Cowboys. I thought they made a mistake giving big contract to Zeke Elliott because it handcuffs at a position that should be relatively easy to fill. Good reminder on Prescott in that he turned down that money because he wanted every last dollar, like almost all pro athletes in every sport. I recall that Jason Garrett was discussed as the culprit for the Cowboys' shortcomings and we're seeing he wasn't really the reason. Mistake to have your owner operate as GM, but that's his prerogative. DiNucci had interest from Chicago and Cleveland before the draft. IMHO it's in his best interest not to play until he's ready, whenever that is. I noticed that Tua will play now, but he was a first round pick, of course. Will be interesting to follow Ben's path, however it turns out.
10-21-2020 03:22 PM
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DoubleDogDare Offline
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Post: #1370
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 12:14 PM)DukeQuin Wrote:  I understand his thinking, though. He wanted 4 years and a chance to test the market again while he was still young enough to get anothe 4-year contract like that. Pre-COVID, the way the salary cap was going, it was a risky bet with a very lucrative potential payoff. Between COVID and the injury he's likely to get tagged again, but even that's going to get him north of $40m for next season.

It sounds like he will very likely make ~$70M for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. The guarantees under the 5 year deal were rumored to be ~$100M. From my understanding, I think I would have done the same thing and bet on myself by "risking" the $30M. Two successful seasons ('20 & '21) and the next contract's guarantees would have more than made up for the $30M. A career ending/limiting injury, especially after getting the 2021 franchise tag, probably isn't that big of a deal financially either. My assumption is he is carrying >$20M of injury and loss of value insurance, given projected top 10 picks have >$10M and he was risking way more as provide franchise player. Assuming the insurance is only $20M and considering taxes, agent fees, blah blah blah; if he suffered a career ending injury in 2021, the likely net impact is probably only a few million.
10-21-2020 03:34 PM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #1371
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 03:34 PM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 12:14 PM)DukeQuin Wrote:  I understand his thinking, though. He wanted 4 years and a chance to test the market again while he was still young enough to get anothe 4-year contract like that. Pre-COVID, the way the salary cap was going, it was a risky bet with a very lucrative potential payoff. Between COVID and the injury he's likely to get tagged again, but even that's going to get him north of $40m for next season.

It sounds like he will very likely make ~$70M for the 2020 and 2021 seasons. The guarantees under the 5 year deal were rumored to be ~$100M. From my understanding, I think I would have done the same thing and bet on myself by "risking" the $30M. Two successful seasons ('20 & '21) and the next contract's guarantees would have more than made up for the $30M. A career ending/limiting injury, especially after getting the 2021 franchise tag, probably isn't that big of a deal financially either. My assumption is he is carrying >$20M of injury and loss of value insurance, given projected top 10 picks have >$10M and he was risking way more as provide franchise player. Assuming the insurance is only $20M and considering taxes, agent fees, blah blah blah; if he suffered a career ending injury in 2021, the likely net impact is probably only a few million.

You both make great points. I will counter with one other consideration. That is, the marketing opportunities for being the star QB for one of, if not the most, high profile sports organizations in the world. I mean just look at Tony Romo. At times a good QB. At times putting up big numbers. At times - especially in the postseason - very average. He really didn't even come super close to sniffing a Super Bowl, yet he's on Corona Beer commercials, doing the TV gig, and so forth. I'm willing to bet if he played for Cleveland or Detroit, he's not doing those things today. At least with the record and lack of Super Bowl sniffing that is.

We can all agree DP is going to be an extremely rich man. Not as rich as me, but he can wash my car I guess.

04-cheers
10-21-2020 06:29 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #1372
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 12:03 PM)DukeQuin Wrote:  
(10-20-2020 07:43 PM)Purple Wrote:  I am absolutely amazed at the negativity I am reading in this thread. Nooch belongs where he is. He is not some usurping imposter who snuck in under the tent flap. As I said months ago, and which some slammed me for, Nooch is better than Andy Dalton. Dalton is a bum. Dallas didn't draft and retain Nooch because they need a chump to beat up in practice. They drafted and retained him because they are experts at evaluating horseflesh. Nooch is better now than Tony Romo was at the same point in his career. The front office in Frisco knows this, even if many posters on this board do not.


There isn't a single front office in the league that, if they had to choose between starting one of the two, would go with DiNucci over Dalton, and it's not an insult to say that. The Cowboys are very bad for a lot of reasons, including injuries and coaching, but effort and misreading of talent are also hurting them. If they were so good at evaluating DiNucci, they likely didn't miss on evaluating Dalton either.

Dalton was a safety hire just in case Dak got hurt and they needed some experience under center. And, look what happened. If the 'boys front office thought so much of Dalton, they would have offered him a lot more than one million dollars for one season.

Before the season started, I predicted that Dalton was going to stink up the field. And, he is doing that. Dalton isn't better than Nooch, just more experienced. Nooch is better than Dalton.

Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I expect we will see Nooch under center a good bit this season, even as the starter. Romo was once in the same position, replacing veteran journeyman Drew Bledsoe as Dallas' starting QB, the key difference being that Romo had three years of pro experience with the Cowboys already, although he had had very little playing time. Nooch may experience a baptism by fire in the near future.
(This post was last modified: 10-21-2020 07:50 PM by Purple.)
10-21-2020 07:25 PM
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Polish Hammer Offline
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Post: #1373
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 12:03 PM)DukeQuin Wrote:  If they were so good at evaluating DiNucci, they likely didn't miss on evaluating Dalton either.
Different talent evaluators, some scout college talents and see how they fit into their system down the road and others scout NFL players. As a starter in the league Dalton was signed partly to fill a veteran role and somewhat as a ploy in the soap opera that was pat of Dak’s negotiations.
10-21-2020 10:00 PM
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DukeQuin Offline
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Post: #1374
RE: #ProDukes
Meh- not really excited about a throwdown over opinions about Andy Dalton's quarterbacking skills.

I went back and looked at Pro Football Reference and no one from JMU has attempted a pass in the pros, not even Gary Clark on a trick play. I think there's a pretty good chance that changes this season.
10-22-2020 11:35 AM
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JMUPride Offline
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Post: #1375
RE: #ProDukes
Slightly OT...

Former JMU all-timer and NYG RB/Return Man Delvin Joyce was just on a nation-wide Prudential investment TV Commercial
10-22-2020 06:47 PM
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Bawlmer Duke Offline
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Post: #1376
RE: #ProDukes
Adrian Wojnarowski just tweet that Coach Oppenheimer is back with the Bucks as an assistant coach.

At least he had that 1 year with his daughter on a sunk Lou Rowe cruise ship and the life ring pulls him back to the luxury of the NBA
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2020 10:55 AM by Bawlmer Duke.)
10-23-2020 10:55 AM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #1377
RE: #ProDukes
(10-21-2020 10:00 PM)Polish Hammer Wrote:  
(10-21-2020 12:03 PM)DukeQuin Wrote:  If they were so good at evaluating DiNucci, they likely didn't miss on evaluating Dalton either.
Different talent evaluators, some scout college talents and see how they fit into their system down the road and others scout NFL players. As a starter in the league Dalton was signed partly to fill a veteran role and somewhat as a ploy in the soap opera that was pat of Dak’s negotiations.

I agree with that. Dalton was a safety hire and a pawn in the Prescott contractual chess match.
10-23-2020 02:17 PM
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bobbyjmu Offline
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Post: #1378
RE: #ProDukes
Not sure why it is still the case, but am a lifelong fan of the Washington Football Team (can we still say "HTTR"?). Would love to see the Nooch throw a pass or two Jimmy F'n Moreland's way this Sunday. Although watching more than 5 minutes of their games anymore is excruciating.
10-23-2020 03:07 PM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #1379
RE: #ProDukes
(10-23-2020 03:07 PM)bobbyjmu Wrote:  Not sure why it is still the case, but am a lifelong fan of the Washington Football Team (can we still say "HTTR"?). Would love to see the Nooch throw a pass or two Jimmy F'n Moreland's way this Sunday. Although watching more than 5 minutes of their games anymore is excruciating.

Fellow WFT fan here. I'll live and die with them no matter what.

FWIW, Cowpunks have 2 starting OL's inactive today. Only 1 starter on their O-Line still available from Week 1. While the WFT defense has been underachieving (IMO), we do have a very talented D-Line. The opportunity certainly exists for Chase Young, Montez Smith and Ryan Kerrigan to have a lot of fun in the Dallas backfield today.

Hopefully, The Effin' One will get a pick-6 today.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2020 11:52 AM by Wear Purple.)
10-25-2020 11:51 AM
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Wear Purple Offline
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Post: #1380
RE: #ProDukes
Well, there's the first sack and strip of Dalton that led to a WFT safety - Moreland makes a hustle play to keep the recovering Cowpunk in the endzone for the safety.
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2020 12:21 PM by Wear Purple.)
10-25-2020 12:21 PM
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