http://www.the-reporter.net/news/2017-03...20171.html

SUNY-Delhi's article that they are going from a 2 year university to a 4 year public.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/articles/cs...-upgrades/

Saint Joseph's-Vermont is going from 2 year to become a 4 year college, and applied to join the NAIA.

(04-10-2017 06:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.the-reporter.net/news/2017-03...20171.html

SUNY-Delhi's article that they are going from a 2 year university to a 4 year public.

SUNY Delhi has was founded as a public 4-year school.

(04-10-2017 06:51 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.rutlandherald.com/articles/cs...-upgrades/

Saint Joseph's-Vermont is going from 2 year to become a 4 year college, and applied to join the NAIA.

College of St. Joseph has been a 4-year school since the early 1960's.

Check your facts.

(04-10-2017 11:18 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 06:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.the-reporter.net/news/2017-03...20171.html

SUNY-Delhi's article that they are going from a 2 year university to a 4 year public.

SUNY Delhi has was founded as a public 4-year school.

He's got the details fuzzy, but I think there might be some smoke here. Morrisville State College, not too far away by rural standards, reclassified to NCAA D-III in 2007. They're both SUNY technical colleges with 4-year and 2-year programs. Delhi's athletic department recently went on a bit of a hiring spree (I happen to keep an eye on all state government job postings, for non-sports reasons). I'm not sure where they'd go--it's not clear that SUNYAC or NEAC would feel the need for a new member--but I wouldn't be shocked.

It's already been announced that Delhi will be part of a new conference that will have dual membership in the NAIA/USCAA.
http://www.the-reporter.net/news/2016-11..._For_.html

We are expecting some of those new NAIA members to be announced today.

Delhi may be planning to go D3 after they build up their program.

(04-10-2017 11:18 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 06:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.the-reporter.net/news/2017-03...20171.html

SUNY-Delhi's article that they are going from a 2 year university to a 4 year public.

SUNY Delhi has was founded as a public 4-year school.

(04-10-2017 06:51 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://www.rutlandherald.com/articles/cs...-upgrades/

Saint Joseph's-Vermont is going from 2 year to become a 4 year college, and applied to join the NAIA.

College of St. Joseph has been a 4-year school since the early 1960's.

Check your facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US...stitutions

I was looking at the USCAA site, and it is a mix of 4 year, CC and jcs. That is why I thought both schools were 2 year colleges since I am not familiar with them.

Seven new NAIA members:

http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip...embers.htm

Cleary University (Mich.)

College of St. Joseph (Vt.)

Florida College

Life Pacific University (Calif.)

Oklahoma Panhandle State University

Rust College (Miss.)

University of Maine at Fort Kent.

Well, if Seminole State go to four years. We have to make sure we add a state to them. Seminole State-Florida and Seminole State-Oklahoma

Rust College is another HBCU that dropped down from NCAA to NAIA behind Stillman.

Cleary most be there to replace Davenport's spot.

Surprising that NAIA only got one football school. Panhandle State

I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

(04-11-2017 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

Diné is a 2-year school with only cross country that would be in NAIA. They are ineligible and it's not feasible to pay high association fees for just two sports.

Ottawa (AZ) doesn't even start classes until fall 17 and it may be 2018 or 2019 at the earliest for the start of athletics. Why pay the association fees when you are not actively participating yet? They also have to get their accreditations in order before applying.

(04-11-2017 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Well, if Seminole State go to four years. We have to make sure we add a state to them. Seminole State-Florida and Seminole State-Oklahoma

Rust College is another HBCU that dropped down from NCAA to NAIA behind Stillman.

Cleary most be there to replace Davenport's spot.

Surprising that NAIA only got one football school. Panhandle State

I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

Rust definitely stepped UP, going from D3 to NAIA.

The deadline was Oct. 1, so you might be right on Morthland and Ottawa.

(04-11-2017 11:56 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

Diné is a 2-year school with only cross country that would be in NAIA. They are ineligible and it's not feasible to pay high association fees for just two sports.

Ottawa (AZ) doesn't even start classes until fall 17 and it may be 2018 or 2019 at the earliest for the start of athletics. Why pay the association fees when you are not actively participating yet? They also have to get their accreditations in order before applying.

Ottawa (AZ) may have indeed chosen to wait to apply, although they are already hiring coaches and other athletic personnel. I'd bet it was a timing thing; Oct 1 is pretty early.

(04-11-2017 11:56 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

Diné is a 2-year school with only cross country that would be in NAIA. They are ineligible and it's not feasible to pay high association fees for just two sports.

Ottawa (AZ) doesn't even start classes until fall 17 and it may be 2018 or 2019 at the earliest for the start of athletics. Why pay the association fees when you are not actively participating yet? They also have to get their accreditations in order before applying.

Dine seems to have basketball and other sports as well since they are on the schedule against some NAIA schools. They have not updated their website since it is still showing stuff from 2012.
Cross Country, Archery and Rodeo
They compete with all the schools that have a Rodeo team like against New Mexico State and some others.
Rodeo is not a sponsor sport for the NCAA, NAIA and NJCAA.

http://theuscaa.com/members/dine/info?preview=true

USCAA listed them having men's and women's basketball as well.

(04-12-2017 02:20 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 11:56 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 08:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I am surprise that some of the USCAA schools like Dine applied yet.

I guess Morthland and Ottawa, Arizona was too late to applied to become NAIA member. Morthland is a member of the NCCAA.

Diné is a 2-year school with only cross country that would be in NAIA. They are ineligible and it's not feasible to pay high association fees for just two sports.

Ottawa (AZ) doesn't even start classes until fall 17 and it may be 2018 or 2019 at the earliest for the start of athletics. Why pay the association fees when you are not actively participating yet? They also have to get their accreditations in order before applying.

Dine seems to have basketball and other sports as well since they are on the schedule against some NAIA schools. They have not updated their website since it is still showing stuff from 2012.
Cross Country, Archery and Rodeo
They compete with all the schools that have a Rodeo team like against New Mexico State and some others.
Rodeo is not a sponsor sport for the NCAA, NAIA and NJCAA.

http://theuscaa.com/members/dine/info?preview=true

USCAA listed them having men's and women's basketball as well.

In this case, archery and rodeo are irrelevant since they are not NCAA or NAIA sponsored sports.

After looking at MANY sources spanning the last two years, a men's team played maybe a total of 12 games (including a forfeit) as what appears to be at a club level. There was no mention of a women's team. It still doesn't matter what sports Diné may or may not have because it is a 2-year school and can not apply to NAIA until they become a fully accredited 4-year school.

Quote:Ottawa (AZ) may have indeed chosen to wait to apply, although they are already hiring coaches and other athletic personnel. I'd bet it was a timing thing; Oct 1 is pretty early.

Yes, coaches are being hired because they are needed to recruit the players that form the rest of the team. The Oct 1 deadline was not the reason Ottawa (AZ) did not apply; they need to be accredited and have actual athletic teams ready to be active participants before applying.

I think the next 2-3 years will be huge for the NAIA. I was shown a "prospect list" from the NAIA by one of my contacts. Notes on the list said it included those in active discussions with the NAIA for membership and also asked for introduction assistance. So the list runs the gamut from those the NAIA thinks would benefit but no contact yet, to those who are planning on applying next year. I can't comment on which schools were on that list, but I will give you some basic idea:

It's over 100 schools long
The biggest group are NCAA D2 schools
There are about half as many NCAA D3 schools as D2 schools.
There are about half as many NCCAA schools as D3 schools.
There are about the same number of USCAA schools as NCCAA schools
There are a handful of "start ups" without current athletics.

Of course, there's no guarantee ANY of them will become members; it does show you what the NAIA is thinking, what their goals are and what they're doing about it.

Why would a DII go to NAIA?? If anything, I've seen the trend as the opposite in the upper midwest.

(04-12-2017 01:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Why would a DII go to NAIA?? If anything, I've seen the trend as the opposite in the upper midwest.

That trend has pretty much slowed to a trickle, as the schools that can adapt to D2 have already gone, and those that can't adapt but went anyway have not had good experiences.

Lots of schools that fit into the NAIA's sweet spot would consider going NAIA. The NAIA's sweet spot is for running a high quality athletics program on a lower budget than D2 or even D3. Schools under 3000 students, especially private schools, without huge endowments. There are huge disadvantages in D2 for such schools, like requiring a lot of administrative overhead, compliance rules that make sense for elite athletes but zero sense for normal student athletes, budget flexibility on a year by year basis (for example no scholarship minimums), recruiting rule advantages (year round, international ineligibility, etc.), and a more accommodating approach to coach-athlete relationships that fosters mentoring and leadership development. And many of the "leading institutions" in the NAIA being religiously oriented, there's more of a sense that politics of the organization won't be hostile to them. Only about 25% (a guess) of current NAIA membership are public schools.

Look at it this way: if you are a school of between 1500 and 2000 students, private and religious, don't have the money to fully fund your scholarship levels, and haven't seen national tournaments on a regular basis in decades, why would you want to stay in the NCAA? You could take all the money you spend on administration & compliance, focus it on a few targeted sports and have better teams than you had in the NCAA, win more games, have more championship appearances, more excitement on campus, and perhaps do a better job of developing students into leaders. Or you could have a blue disc on your web site.

(10-04-2016 07:51 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some of the top D2 schools could actually compete as FBS members. A lot of history with D2, D3 and NAIA schools at the top levels at one point and time. Back in the early years, academics did not matter to be part of a conference. Lake Forest could be a Big 10 member if they joined as a founder. Iowa, and many of the Big 12 schools were conference mates with schools like Grinnell, Drake and others. Texas was a conference mates with Phillips and Southwestern. ACC, SEC and West Virginia were conference mates with some CAA, Southern, SBC, Southland, Big South, Ohio Valley, D2 and D3 schools who were not AAU. PAC 12 members have conference mates who were members at one point with the Border, RMAC, Idaho, Montana, Northern Arizona, UTEP, New Mexico State, West Texas A&M, College of Idaho, D3 northwest schools, D3 southwest California schools, and some D2 California schools. Denver was one of them as well with football in the old RMAC days. The academics is nothing but an excuse for not inviting any schools to join.

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(04-12-2017 02:21 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 01:35 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Why would a DII go to NAIA?? If anything, I've seen the trend as the opposite in the upper midwest.

That trend has pretty much slowed to a trickle, as the schools that can adapt to D2 have already gone, and those that can't adapt but went anyway have not had good experiences.

Lots of schools that fit into the NAIA's sweet spot would consider going NAIA. The NAIA's sweet spot is for running a high quality athletics program on a lower budget than D2 or even D3. Schools under 3000 students, especially private schools, without huge endowments. There are huge disadvantages in D2 for such schools, like requiring a lot of administrative overhead, compliance rules that make sense for elite athletes but zero sense for normal student athletes, budget flexibility on a year by year basis (for example no scholarship minimums), recruiting rule advantages (year round, international ineligibility, etc.), and a more accommodating approach to coach-athlete relationships that fosters mentoring and leadership development. And many of the "leading institutions" in the NAIA being religiously oriented, there's more of a sense that politics of the organization won't be hostile to them. Only about 25% (a guess) of current NAIA membership are public schools.

Look at it this way: if you are a school of between 1500 and 2000 students, private and religious, don't have the money to fully fund your scholarship levels, and haven't seen national tournaments on a regular basis in decades, why would you want to stay in the NCAA? You could take all the money you spend on administration & compliance, focus it on a few targeted sports and have better teams than you had in the NCAA, win more games, have more championship appearances, more excitement on campus, and perhaps do a better job of developing students into leaders. Or you could have a blue disc on your web site.

Thanks for the explanation!

(04-12-2017 12:56 AM)teamvsn Wrote:  Rust definitely stepped UP, going from D3 to NAIA.

I've been to Rust. That was an experience...

Rust is likely utilizing NAIA as a method to cut back on the number of 'team sports' that they had to offer at the Division III level due to enrollment size. Presume they will cut men's volleyball and maybe baseball and/or softball with the move to NAIA.

Not sure they'll fund many scholarships... and perhaps find a landing spot with the GCAC?

(03-27-2017 03:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Okay, I remember the Interim WAC conference commish talking about expansion back in 2012 along with the talks about MVFC could merge to form a WAC FBS conference to save the WAC. He talked about several D2 schools west of the Mississippi River were interested in joining the WAC. We found 2 already with Grand Canyon and California Baptist. He did mentioned some of the D2 schools had football teams. The only schools that I know of who have done some upgrading for their stadiums or to build a new stadium that could move up, or ones that could get tractions to upgrade the stadiums that they are using for the cities they play in. The schools that I can think of that have done some work or spent money are Dixie State, Central Washington, Colorado Mesa, Azusa Pacific, West Texas A&M, Texas A&M-Commerce, Texas A&M-Kingsville, Tarleton State, and some others.

There seems to be rumors that Cal. State-Los Angeles could get an invite to the WAC now since Cal. Baptist got invites. Western Washington is another one that could get an invite. If UTRGV, Chicago State and UMKC leaves? We could see a true Western Conference formed by these schools.

Cal. Baptist
Cal. State-Los Angeles
Cal. State-Bakersfield
Seattle U.
Western Washington
Grand Canyon U.
New Mexico State
Utah Valley
New Mexico State
Azusa Pacific
Central Washington
Dixie State
Colorado Mesa
West Texas A&M

Wac could have an FCS conference going with:
Azusa Pacific
Central Washington
Dixie State
Colorado Mesa
West Texas A&M

You could throw Cal.-Davis and Cal. Poly as affiliates in football to make 7 and have cross rivalry games with the Big Sky schools like the SEC and AAC.

Eastern Washington/Central Washington
Cal-Davis/Sacramento State
Northern Colorado/Colorado Mesa
Weber State/Dixie State
Cal. Poly/Azusa Pacific
Northern Arizona/Grand Canyon (if Grand Canyon adds football)

I could see Western Oregon joins in the future WAC school to create a Portland State/Western Oregon match up between Big Sky and WAC.

Creating in an instate rivalry games between the 2 conference could create more $$$$ for both conferences.

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