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OT - Civil Discourse
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Post: #121
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-13-2016 06:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  So free healthcare for all, soon you will be a government employee earning far less money and paying far more taxes with lower quality healthcare than you had before. 05-stirthepot

I would love to be convinced of this so that I can have a clearer opinion. No one seems to be able to offer much in the way of data supporting it, though. There's a lot of "imagine what it would be like if you put our incompetent government in charge of things" and "I know somebody from ___ who says their system is a mess," but nothing that really leads one to believe that it's inherent in the setup of socialized medicine. I think it's been noted in this thread that the WHO puts the healthcare of a number of nations with socialized medicine ahead of our own...not that that proves the opposite, mind you, but it doesn't help the case.

Keep in mind, I take no issue with someone not wanting government to "control" healthcare out of a belief in the value of small government, or even if it's just their opinion that it would play out badly in the United States. But I wish more people would acknowledge that it's just opinion or personal principle and not a given that publicly funding healthcare is doomed to fail. (Also, ericsaid, I realize you weren't stating it as if it's fact; just responding to your post because I see that sentiment a lot and wanted to note where I'd like to see it expanded.)
07-13-2016 07:53 PM
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AlwaysSunny Offline
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Post: #122
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

Being more Christ like won't solve a thing. People were more religious than ever during the Civil Rights era and we see how that ended. Same with the era during slavery. As a black man, there are just a few things, unfortunately, that you have to just accept and learn to deal with. You know you'll be targeted by law enforcement more often than others solely because of your complexion. You know that half of the time that when it happens, you'll be given no reason other than "you fit the description of...".

It's something that i've had to deal with since I started driving at 16. You know you'll get the occasional N word from them. It's jacked up but that's just the life that we live. It almost makes you hate and discriminate against a group of people as much as they are to us. Even when you can have on a business suit coming from a work, walk past certain people's cars and hear their car doors lock as they make sure to keep their eyes glued on you. It's not something that'll ever stop pissing you off no matter how old you may be.

The difference is, these 90's kids aren't anywhere near as tolerant with that type of thing as some of us older people are.
07-13-2016 07:56 PM
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CoastalAlum2011 Offline
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Post: #123
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-13-2016 07:56 PM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

Being more Christ like won't solve a thing. People were more religious than ever during the Civil Rights era and we see how that ended. Same with the era during slavery. As a black man, there are just a few things, unfortunately, that you have to just accept and learn to deal with. You know you'll be targeted by law enforcement more often than others solely because of your complexion. You know that half of the time that when it happens, you'll be given no reason other than "you fit the description of...".

It's something that i've had to deal with since I started driving at 16. You know you'll get the occasional N word from them. It's jacked up but that's just the life that we live. It almost makes you hate and discriminate against a group of people as much as they are to us. Even when you can have on a business suit coming from a work, walk past certain people's cars and hear their car doors lock as they make sure to keep their eyes glued on you. It's not something that'll ever stop pissing you off no matter how old you may be.

The difference is, these 90's kids aren't anywhere near as tolerant with that type of thing as some of us older people are.

I've stayed out of this thread until now, and I disagree with almost all of your post but there's only one thing that I feel like I must correct you about.

Trojanbrutha said be more CHRIST LIKE. And you are suggesting that is synonymous with being RELIGIOUS. These are two very very very different things. Trump considers himself religious. But Trump is not Christ like. Don't make the mistake of confusing those two things.
(This post was last modified: 07-13-2016 08:54 PM by CoastalAlum2011.)
07-13-2016 08:53 PM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #124
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-13-2016 07:53 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  
(07-13-2016 06:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  So free healthcare for all, soon you will be a government employee earning far less money and paying far more taxes with lower quality healthcare than you had before. 05-stirthepot

I would love to be convinced of this so that I can have a clearer opinion. No one seems to be able to offer much in the way of data supporting it, though. There's a lot of "imagine what it would be like if you put our incompetent government in charge of things" and "I know somebody from ___ who says their system is a mess," but nothing that really leads one to believe that it's inherent in the setup of socialized medicine. I think it's been noted in this thread that the WHO puts the healthcare of a number of nations with socialized medicine ahead of our own...not that that proves the opposite, mind you, but it doesn't help the case.

Keep in mind, I take no issue with someone not wanting government to "control" healthcare out of a belief in the value of small government, or even if it's just their opinion that it would play out badly in the United States. But I wish more people would acknowledge that it's just opinion or personal principle and not a given that publicly funding healthcare is doomed to fail. (Also, ericsaid, I realize you weren't stating it as if it's fact; just responding to your post because I see that sentiment a lot and wanted to note where I'd like to see it expanded.)

I don't have the links on hand, but there is a huge difference in wait times. For the minor stuff the government system is ok and seems to work well. But for more complicate and critical care you start seeing the difference. Wait times are drastically longer and this is mostly do to a lack of resources and specialty equipment (MRI scanners and such). There is something like 2-3x the number of MRI and other devices in the U.S. when compared to other developed countries. This drastically reduces wait times. Also, a lot more research and medical advancement is done in the U.S. (an argument can be made for government grant research and socialism here if you want, but private industry funds a lot too) If you want the best care and can afford it people come to the U.S. There are exception of course, I have a relative trying to get treatment in another country because regulations (FDA) have not approved the treatment here in the U.S. I also have relatives that are in the medical field and from Canada and know first hand the quality of care they receive in that country. I can't speak for everywhere and why certain countries are ranked the way they are, but I think it has more to do with access to health care than quality. Of course we have a lot to improve in quality here and in desperate need of an overhaul of the whole system. Like taxes and more stream lined K.I.S.S. approach would work best. Unfortunately that lawyers and politicians don't like that approach.
07-14-2016 07:50 AM
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Post: #125
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-13-2016 07:53 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  
(07-13-2016 06:07 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  So free healthcare for all, soon you will be a government employee earning far less money and paying far more taxes with lower quality healthcare than you had before. 05-stirthepot

I would love to be convinced of this so that I can have a clearer opinion. No one seems to be able to offer much in the way of data supporting it, though. There's a lot of "imagine what it would be like if you put our incompetent government in charge of things" and "I know somebody from ___ who says their system is a mess," but nothing that really leads one to believe that it's inherent in the setup of socialized medicine. I think it's been noted in this thread that the WHO puts the healthcare of a number of nations with socialized medicine ahead of our own...not that that proves the opposite, mind you, but it doesn't help the case.

Keep in mind, I take no issue with someone not wanting government to "control" healthcare out of a belief in the value of small government, or even if it's just their opinion that it would play out badly in the United States. But I wish more people would acknowledge that it's just opinion or personal principle and not a given that publicly funding healthcare is doomed to fail. (Also, ericsaid, I realize you weren't stating it as if it's fact; just responding to your post because I see that sentiment a lot and wanted to note where I'd like to see it expanded.)

How about we get the VA right first? I was diagnosed with a completely screwed up rotator cuff about a year ago and I'm still waiting to consult with a surgeon to this day. In the last four years I've had four different general practice doctors assigned to me and my last one just quit (or got fired, I dunno) and I've been waiting to be assigned a new one for months. This is important because to get your hearing, eyesight, or many other important stuff done, you MUST have YOUR (not just any doctor, YOURS!) officially assigned VA Doc set it up for you.

I've had four dental issues being worked on for over a year and a half - in a civilian dental clinic, they'd have all been fixed in one day. I'm still waiting for the last two issues to be fixed at this time.

Look - I'm all about a single payer type of system like Canada has for example, where the private sector is intimately involved in the program but let's just see if we can get the damned VA to work before we try expanding the socialized medicine idea first, ok?

/rant

EDIT: I just want to add, I know in comparison to way too many of my brothers and sisters who have it MUCH WORSE than my own circumstances. We're not treating them any better than the VA is treating me, which is the real travesty. I can wait for my permanent bridge vs the temporary one I have. I can wait for the severed parts of my shoulder cuff to be reattached. I can wait as long as it takes. But I shouldn't have to if the VA system was working. DEFINITELY not my military brothers and sisters living in their virtual "VA hell".

I'm a fairly liberal guy for the most part and I want to believe that a combo of socialized & capitalistic medicine is workable in America but as a "Veterans Choice" enrollee, I'm STILL waiting a year or two later for simple processes to be handled. That program I referenced is supposed to be for we veterans who the VA can't get to within 30 days. BZZZT!
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2016 10:46 PM by airtroop.)
07-17-2016 09:24 PM
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Post: #126
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-17-2016 09:24 PM)airtroop Wrote:  How about we get the VA right first? I was diagnosed with a completely screwed up rotator cuff about a year ago and I'm still waiting to consult with a surgeon to this day. In the last four years I've had four different general practice doctors assigned to me and my last one just quit (or got fired, I dunno) and I've been waiting to be assigned a new one for months. This is important because to get your hearing, eyesight, or many other important stuff done, you MUST have YOUR (not just any doctor, YOURS!) officially assigned VA Doc set it up for you.

I've had four dental issues being worked on for over a year and a half - in a civilian dental clinic, they'd have all been fixed in one day. I'm still waiting for the last two issues to be fixed at this time.

Look - I'm all about a single payer type of system like Canada has for example, where the private sector is intimately involved in the program but let's just see if we can get the damned VA to work before we try expanding the socialized medicine idea first, ok?

/rant

EDIT: I just want to add, I know in comparison to way too many of my brothers and sisters who have it MUCH WORSE than my own circumstances. We're not treating them any better than the VA is treating me, which is the real travesty. I can wait for my permanent bridge vs the temporary one I have. I can wait for the severed parts of my shoulder cuff to be reattached. I can wait as long as it takes. But I shouldn't have to if the VA system was working. DEFINITELY not my military brothers and sisters living in their virtual "VA hell".

I'm a fairly liberal guy for the most part and I want to believe that a combo of socialized & capitalistic medicine is workable in America but as a "Veterans Choice" enrollee, I'm STILL waiting a year or two later for simple processes to be handled. That program I referenced is supposed to be for we veterans who the VA can't get to within 30 days. BZZZT!

Definitely understood, and I don't think anyone on here would argue that veterans' benefits need to be made a greater priority than they are.

Also, I'm honestly not sure anymore that a mix of socialized and privatized medicine is workable in our country. I would have thought so at one point, but I'm realizing that any hint of socialism drives some of us to rally so hard against an idea that it may only end up being a divisive concept...whatever the costs and benefits may actually be.
07-18-2016 07:52 PM
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Post: #127
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-09-2016 11:39 AM)gumbobrown Wrote:  It's a crazy world. That has run out of control it's not a race issue it's a control issue. Blacks and Hispanics are just stage one. Mountain men, bikers, and independent thinking white men are next. It's a slow steady process their working. To get every one in order. We are not supposed to all get along was it not in the first testament when we were all getting along we were divided by language. It okay to disagree or view things differently but we don't have to kill one another.

Often, it is not ok to disagree or view things differently. Just look at how some fans of school teams have turned what should be friendly competition into personal vendettas and hatred. A reflection of our society, unfortunately.
07-28-2016 05:37 PM
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Post: #128
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-11-2016 12:25 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:15 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:14 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:11 PM)WolfBird Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:09 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  That was more of a minor nuisance for drivers than something serious. Not a single person was injured or arrested as a result of the protest, as Police managed to coax them off the bridge peacefully.


You think the people stuck in the bridge would agree it was a minor nuisance?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#WolvesUp

Did they get home safely?


Fortunately


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#WolvesUp

Well their 45 minute delay was for a worthy cause...I'm sure they can watch the episode of their favorite TV show they missed online later.
A worthy cause?
07-28-2016 07:09 PM
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stodgdog Offline
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Post: #129
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-11-2016 12:30 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:26 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Ark30inf
Many white people choose to ignore that the justice system is indeed systematically biased against African-Americans.

I've heard this tossed around for longer than I can recall, yet no one has been able to prove it. Simply using numbers of blacks in jail or arrest records is not an accurate measurement. To say law enforcement or judges intentionally deal with black people more harshly is just plain wrong.
[/quote]

If a Priviledged White man was arrested for a crime, he gets to spend millions on a strong defense team to work to get him out of the charge, or to reduce the jail time, with sweetheart deals for Federal prisons

If a Poor Black Man was arrested for the same crime, he'd get stuck with a Public Defender, who doesn't know him from Adam, is probably balancing 12 case loads, and works in a closet that he calls an office that has no money to spend on the guys defense. He likely ends up being encouraged to plead guity for a lesser sentence, despite the fact he may or may not have committed the crime in question.

Perhaps the only change that should be made is that it's more biased based on Social/Economic class, but it is very biased.
[/quote]

The same is true for a "privileged" black American and a poor white American.
07-28-2016 07:24 PM
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stodgdog Offline
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RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-11-2016 01:07 PM)Godzilla Wrote:  [Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS2YME5wPh91m8J5RH-8uF...ME7BVTv-ML]

Taking to the streets to protest is not the issue. It's the amateur way they are going about it. The general public will respect the movement more if they turn the protest from occupations of areas/streets into marches with a clear and consistent message that offers solutions not just complains about problems. Lack of leadership in the BLM movement is hurting their cause and continuing to go this way won't result in real change for their legitimate grievances. I hope people on both sides of this issue can stop being so reactionary and put aside their personal bias so that real solutions can be found that helps everyone.

Your last sentence is poignant. However, an honest and rational discussion of racial problems is not possible due to political correctness - is what my observation leads me to believe.
07-28-2016 07:28 PM
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Post: #131
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-11-2016 04:51 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 01:05 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:42 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  What you described isn't a black / white issue, it's economic. I seem to recall a wealthy black guy named OJ got some preferential treatment.


That was what the end of my post pointed out, however it is worth noting that there is a much higher percentage of Black Poverty in this country than White Poverty. That ultimately explains why the percentage of blacks in prisons is so much higher.

It's a myth that poverty causes someone to be criminal. My wife is a retired teacher who taught - voluntarily I might add - at some of the worst inner city schools in Winston Salem. Kids living under the same low economic conditions turned out completely different. Some were awesome kids who were polite, respectful and studied hard who went on to become model citizens and contributing members of society. Others are now in prison. The issue has more to do with strong parents and the lack of 2 parents in the home. I grew up in a small cotton mill town in rural NC. Our schools were integrated in the late 60's. All those black kids lived what today most would consider in poverty, but most had 2 parent families with strong ethics and values. We didn't have a moments trouble with integration. All those folks were good people and many remain great friends to this day.

In my opinion you are absolutely correct.
07-28-2016 07:37 PM
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RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-11-2016 07:31 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 06:44 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 05:49 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  I was raised in a lower middle class working home where my both my parents worked their tails off only to live pay check to pay check to provide us a good life. I was always taught respect for elders and authority even if I disagree, I was always taught life isn't fair and of you want something work for it. I was taught accountability fur myself and my actions. Until people regain personal accountability and start teaching what I beliebe to be basic human social skills things will only get worse. It's not just young people, a lot of people today always have an excuse, it's always someone else's fault... People rarely look in the mirror anymore unless it's to take a selfie. I see it everyday with grown men who take zero responsibility for anything. Now if this grown man never acts like a grown man, what kind of kid you think he is raising? Being poor is an excuse, you don't have to have money to be polite, to be clean, to be respectful, to be educated, to be accountable to yourself. There are injustices to every walk of life and you will never rid this earth of evil but to a lot of these problem start in the homes.... Parenting. People are a product of their environment... Majority of the time, what they see growing up is what they will become.

But how many of those parenting issues today come from kids or young adults who grew up in single parent households because one parent is in jail or worse?

You can have the greatest parent in the world, but if that parent is working 2 jobs to make ends meet for their kids, chances are they are not home enough during the day to figure out what exactly their kid is getting into when not at school.

I've known some great kids who spent most of their Pre-Teen and Teenage years on their own for hours at a time because their parents are forced to work 2 jobs to make ends meet and have no one to care for them. I've known 11 year olds who are responsible for taking care of a younger brother or sister...simply because they are the oldest and in charge at home.

If that kid goes out and gets in trouble legally, is that the fault of the parent who is doing everything they can to keep the kid clothed and fed every day?

My grandmother raised 6 kids alone, she was born deaf and went blind at the age of 10. She raised those 6 kids on a lunch ladies salary. She still raised her kids to respect people, to be polite and if you want something work for it. You can make excuses or you can do something about it. Life isn't fair, some people will always have it easier than others. You are trying to move the line of the conversation... If I would have gotten in trouble of course it wouldn't be my parents fault... But if my parents watched me hang out with the wrong people, if they let me get away with skipping school, out after curfew, allow me to constantly break their rules...yeah I'd say they allowed me to end up where I end up. Nothing is 100%. You can either sit there and make excuses about a situation of why you fail or you can work hard everyday to make sure you don't. There are millions of strong single parent homes that produce fantastic children and adults...they didn't buy into the the bullsht. There are millions of 2 parent homes that produce frkn heathens. It is guaranteed but I promise you if a kid grows up watching their parent disrespect authority, break the rules, live off the system, do drugs fight etc... They have a pretty high chance of becoming that same person. It's gonna take a village...and this isn't a black thing or white thing... It's an American thing...nobody wants to work hard for anything anymore. Everybody "deserves" this and "deserves" that....you want it, go work for it. The man who was shot in Minnesota was an abdolute travesty and it's actually a shame it's being associated as the same situation as the guy in Baton Rouge. The media blues anything and everything to fuel the fire. Nothing will ever fix itself until everyone starts looking after their own communities and make sure children are being brought up correctly. Hey it's just one persons opinion but I was never allowed to make excuses so I just don't believe in them. There is always somebody who has it worse than you who made it.

IMHO you are a strong and good man. You embody an American and an America we were taught to believe. Thank you
07-28-2016 08:13 PM
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Post: #133
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-12-2016 11:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 10:26 AM)Florida RedWolf Wrote:  
(07-12-2016 09:03 AM)CajunExpress Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 11:28 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  The past few days have brought our country an all-too familiar place. At the same time the circumstances in Dallas were definitely extenuating. In saying that, there is a belief that black people are too uptight and over exaggerate how a percentage of the white community sees and treats them. As a Christian, I mourn the losses of life that have saddened a vast majority of our country. But, there needs to be a 'Come to Jesus' meeting about some truths that some white people dismiss as hyperbole by the black community.

There has not been an OT in reference to more publicized shootings by police officers against blacks. As a father of a young man in basic training, I'm sick to my stomach because I can't have this conversation with my son...again. I have explained to him many times about the importance of compliance to police in any circumstance. Even if he's standing in a line at Mickey Ds.

But, what could I tell him for instance, if we were watching the news together and a man was complying with what an officer said but still got killed? What answer could I give? and then, a different man is killed because the only recourse he thought he had was to kill police officers that had absolutely nothing to do with said officers in a completely different state?

Something is wrong in this country and it is related to race. I'm not saying it's to the point of a race war, like former congressman Walsh, but there are some hard questions and answers that need to begin.

God bless all those individuals and the families that have been effected by any and all senseless acts of violence. #BeMoreChristLike

I'm 68 years old. Grew up in a rural mid sized town in Louisiana where Cajun, Creole, and N Louisiana country co existed. Blacks had full voter participation for decades before the civil rights laws. Schools were segregated, parks also. Yes that was not a good thing.

Never saw a single black in Opelousas fearful of whites or white cops. Of course I'm sure there were plenty of fearful and illegal incidents I did not know about, but I grew up in a mostly black neighborhood.

My main point though is about having the talk with your son. I don't know what the talk is. My talk was mom telling me they would spend all they had to defend me against false criminal charges, and not a dime for true criminal charges. She also tole me, a person whose father was someone in the community, to never get mouthy with a police officer, to always say yes sir, no sir. The reason she said no matter right or wrong he had a club and gun. That is the talk a mom who was part of the upper middle class had with her teen age son.

Instead of worrying about the talk, make sure you do have the talk. Then make sure your community does not have have bullies for cops, and plenty of bullies sneak into the blue uniforms. It's hard to get rid of civil service employees once hired and secure tenure.

IMO the Dallas Police Chief had the best comments of all the political leaders, black leaders, white leaders and BLM leaders. Instead of protesting join the Dallas PD and be a difference maker.




Last night, Megan Kelly had a live audience on her Fox network show. The discussion focused on the police and the nightmare that we have today. One audience member made the suggestion that to eliminate our problem, that all police departments should be banned and eliminated. How do you have a rational intelligent discussion with someone so stupid? Anyone?

It's Fox. The Irrational and stupidity quotient is pretty high for the viewers of that program.

That is a pretty "irrational and stupidity quotient" reply. Apparently, you disagree with a perspective and dismiss it. I get my news from most of the different networks with different perspectives and try to glean the truth.
07-28-2016 08:49 PM
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stodgdog Offline
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Post: #134
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-12-2016 07:37 PM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:30 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(07-11-2016 12:26 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Ark30inf
Many white people choose to ignore that the justice system is indeed systematically biased against African-Americans.

I've heard this tossed around for longer than I can recall, yet no one has been able to prove it. Simply using numbers of blacks in jail or arrest records is not an accurate measurement. To say law enforcement or judges intentionally deal with black people more harshly is just plain wrong.

If a Priviledged White man was arrested for a crime, he gets to spend millions on a strong defense team to work to get him out of the charge, or to reduce the jail time, with sweetheart deals for Federal prisons

If a Poor Black Man was arrested for the same crime, he'd get stuck with a Public Defender, who doesn't know him from Adam, is probably balancing 12 case loads, and works in a closet that he calls an office that has no money to spend on the guys defense. He likely ends up being encouraged to plead guity for a lesser sentence, despite the fact he may or may not have committed the crime in question.

Perhaps the only change that should be made is that it's more biased based on Social/Economic class, but it is very biased.
[/quote]


That's a piss poor analogy. If a poor white man is arrested for the same crime, he'd get stuck with a public defender that doesn't know him from Adam who'd encourage him to plead guilty to a lesser crime. If a privileged Black man gets arrested, he gets to spend money on an expensive defense team to get him off. Just look at OJ.

You've also shown you have no knowledge of the Memphis bridge or just like to distort reality to push own your agenda. Just because they aren't directly under the support beams of the bridge doesn't mean they didn't get stuck. There's around three miles of elevated interstate in Arkansas from the last access point until you get over the bridge. There were hundreds of people stuck for hours. There was a family taking their child that needed medical attention to Lebonheur, but got stuck. They had to wait for an ambulance that came up the wrong way side of the interstate and then pass him over a barrier so they could go around to the I-55 bridge.
[/quote]

Isn't purposely blocking a public transportation route a crime, whether in an act of civil disobedience or not?
07-28-2016 09:55 PM
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stodgdog Offline
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Post: #135
RE: OT - Civil Discourse
(07-13-2016 11:01 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  That is a lot of typing for a lot of government waste. Very few of those programs actually work and almost all are or would be better in every way if run by the private sector.
You also used a very broad definition of the term. I wouldn't personally view national defense as socialist, but that's just me I guess.
The federal government is mandated by the Constitution for national defense and infrastructure. I don't understand the guy's argument that all taxpayer funded activities equals socialism.
07-28-2016 10:05 PM
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