(07-08-2016 01:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Im not expecting any gun measure to stop criminals from obtaining them. I know that is never going to happen. I do however believe that there is some form of legislation out there that would make it more difficult for someone to make a rash decision, buy a gun and committ a mass shooting. Be it better background checks, bans for people on a terror watch list or whatever. I simply cannot believe that nothing can be done about this.

I never said you couldn't do anything and have named numerous things that we can do.... none of which you've really addressed. The fact that you respond to what I've said as if I've suggested there is nothing that can be done is part of the problem of having a conversation about doing things... which you said you wanted. You need to recognize that.

Having said that, here's the problem with this logic.

You generally can't buy a gun and make a rash decision from a gun dealer.... waiting period for hand-guns and long guns kill very few... and never as a 'rash decision'... nor would you do so at a gun show... Only generally from someone breaking the law... aka a criminal... whom YOU suggest (but I have not) is untouchable.

As I said, the Orlando shooter was vetted by the FBI twice for TERRORISM. How much better a background check do you think there is? I'm not suggesting background checks are a bad idea, I'm suggesting that the idea that we can catch these people if we can just invade them more is not supported by the facts. The FBI/Homeland security investigating a terrorism suspect can do virtually anything.... and they cleared him... TWICE. San Bernardino went through California's check, and also had been investigated (marginally) by TSA/Homeland AND FBI (not watch list, just general based on activity). There is no 'magic test' that we can perform to identify killers... and by and large, mass shooters don't simply have wild moments and kill people. They are relatively well organized and plan things. If they want a gun and can't get one legally, they will get them illegally (from criminals).

You're creating a straw man... the momentarily irrational person who runs to a store in his panic and buys a gun and kills people. While there are exceptions to every rule, that person doesn't generally exist.

The criminal buys his guns from criminals. The mass shooter buys them legally if he can and plans out his attack. If he can't buy them legally, he gets them from criminals. Nobody commits suicide with a long gun and handguns have a waiting period... unless you buy them from criminals.

Do you see the common enemy/issue/weak link? It isn't the stores.

(07-08-2016 01:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Just purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II today. You never know.

That is sweet!

(07-08-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 12:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I've always said I am all for thorough background checks but not retention of records because that has been used in the past to confiscate weapons at a later date.

My friend says the same thing. I cant speak for all commie pinkos like myself but I was frankly surrpised that a gun advocate would say such a thing.

I think you'd be surprised then fit by how many gun owners and gun owning families have no problem with that suggestion.

(07-08-2016 01:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Just purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II today. You never know.

Funny you say that, because so did I. I love my showroom pieces, but for $599, you can't beat this gun. I doubt they'll be sticking around at that price point for very long, given all this crap going on.

(07-08-2016 03:19 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 12:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 12:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  I've always said I am all for thorough background checks but not retention of records because that has been used in the past to confiscate weapons at a later date.

My friend says the same thing. I cant speak for all commie pinkos like myself but I was frankly surrpised that a gun advocate would say such a thing.

I think you'd be surprised then fit by how many gun owners and gun owning families have no problem with that suggestion.

I do. I have a problem with placing a financial burden upon a private citizen trying to sell his own property by forcing him to have to go through a gun dealer to run a background check. If I want to sell one of my guns to the SLED Agent that lives up the street or the US Marshall that goes to my church I shouldn't have to be inconvenienced like that.

Crack down on the clowns who are shade-tree dealers but leave private sales alone.

Every gun I have purchases I went through a federal background check. The government has no right to maintain any of those records after the fact. No registry. Ever. If that is required by those short bus idiots, nothing ever gets passed and the libs can pound sand for eternity

Also, if its inherited or transferred among family members, the government can screw off. They have no buisness being involved in any of those transactions.

(07-08-2016 02:14 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 01:45 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Im not expecting any gun measure to stop criminals from obtaining them. I know that is never going to happen. I do however believe that there is some form of legislation out there that would make it more difficult for someone to make a rash decision, buy a gun and committ a mass shooting. Be it better background checks, bans for people on a terror watch list or whatever. I simply cannot believe that nothing can be done about this.

Meaningless, the same people can easily make a homemade bombs and kill even more people in even faster fashion.

No one needs a gun to commit mass murder.






Bombs are already banned across the globe, yet we have bombings almost every single day.

And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice. But I digress. If not more gun control, then at the very least, lets stop blaming everyone except the person who actually committed this crime. We can take action against people like this without violence.

(07-08-2016 03:27 PM)Kronke Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 01:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Just purchased a Smith & Wesson M&P15 Sport II today. You never know.

Funny you say that, because so did I. I love my showroom pieces, but for $599, you can't beat this gun. I doubt they'll be sticking around at that price point for very long, given all this crap going on.

Very good buy. The Rugers and for more money the Colts are great shooters. Now go online and buy a 2-3 thousand rounds of ammo to store in sealed .50 cal metal ammo cans so you can shoot and keep it for years to come. Ammo is going to be a pinch point under the next liberal elitist administration. Anyone who is so inclined and is not topping off now will regret it in 5 years (or less).

(07-08-2016 06:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice.

And yet, everywhere else in the world, we see that people without the same access to guns we have simply build bombs and typicality kill more people in even less time, as opposed to shooting people one at a time and having long drawn out battles with cops.

We know the source of the problem is not the gun, but the person who is seeking to murder people in large groups.

You can collect every gun on the planet, and these same people will still murder large groups of people, just as they already do on a daily basis across the entire world.

Their need to build a bomb because they cant get a gun will instead will help them kill MORE people in a single blast.

(07-08-2016 06:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice.

And yet, everywhere else in the world, we see that people without the same access to guns we have simply build bombs and typicality kill more people in even less time, as opposed to shooting people one at a time and having long drawn out battles with cops.

We know the source of the problem is not the gun, but the person who is seeking to murder people in large groups.

You can collect every gun on the planet, and these same people will still murder large groups of people, just as they already do a an daily basis across the entire world.

Their need to build a bomb because they cant get a gun will instead will help them kill MORE people in a single blast.

And once again, no one is calling for a collection of guns but you keep bringing it up because its easier to deflect the discussion by bringing up red herrings.

I need to obtain a concealed or open carry permit before the stupid governor of Pennsylvania decided to stop them.

(07-08-2016 07:00 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice.

And yet, everywhere else in the world, we see that people without the same access to guns we have simply build bombs and typicality kill more people in even less time, as opposed to shooting people one at a time and having long drawn out battles with cops.

We know the source of the problem is not the gun, but the person who is seeking to murder people in large groups.

You can collect every gun on the planet, and these same people will still murder large groups of people, just as they already do a an daily basis across the entire world.

Their need to build a bomb because they cant get a gun will instead will help them kill MORE people in a single blast.

And once again, no one is calling for a collection of guns but you keep bringing it up because its easier to deflect the discussion by bringing up red herrings.

Pure demagoguery.

The calls for gun control are for even more meaningless action, like banning highly selected rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Most Americans already support common sense controls on automatic rifles and background checks.

Those weapons are hardly ever involved in these attacks.

(07-08-2016 07:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:00 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice.

And yet, everywhere else in the world, we see that people without the same access to guns we have simply build bombs and typicality kill more people in even less time, as opposed to shooting people one at a time and having long drawn out battles with cops.

We know the source of the problem is not the gun, but the person who is seeking to murder people in large groups.

You can collect every gun on the planet, and these same people will still murder large groups of people, just as they already do a an daily basis across the entire world.

Their need to build a bomb because they cant get a gun will instead will help them kill MORE people in a single blast.

And once again, no one is calling for a collection of guns but you keep bringing it up because its easier to deflect the discussion by bringing up red herrings.

No, the calls are for even more mealiness action, like banning certain rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Who on this forum is calling for that. Who on this thread made that suggestion?

(07-08-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:00 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 06:15 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  And yet here in the United States, where guns are easy to get, it seem to be the weapon of choice.

And yet, everywhere else in the world, we see that people without the same access to guns we have simply build bombs and typicality kill more people in even less time, as opposed to shooting people one at a time and having long drawn out battles with cops.

We know the source of the problem is not the gun, but the person who is seeking to murder people in large groups.

You can collect every gun on the planet, and these same people will still murder large groups of people, just as they already do a an daily basis across the entire world.

Their need to build a bomb because they cant get a gun will instead will help them kill MORE people in a single blast.

And once again, no one is calling for a collection of guns but you keep bringing it up because its easier to deflect the discussion by bringing up red herrings.

No, the calls are for even more mealiness action, like banning certain rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Who on this forum is calling for that. Who on this thread made that suggestion?

Obama is. He made it about him.

#ObamaLegacy

(07-08-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  No, the calls are for even more mealiness action, like banning certain rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Who on this forum is calling for that. Who on this thread made that suggestion?

Where did I say all gun control measures originated in the Kyra Memorial Spin room?

(07-08-2016 07:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  No, the calls are for even more mealiness action, like banning certain rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Who on this forum is calling for that. Who on this thread made that suggestion?

Were did I say all gun control measures originated in the Kyra Memorial Spin room?

Well who then are you speaking to if not to the people who frequent this forum?

(07-08-2016 07:27 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:25 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:12 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 07:11 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  No, the calls are for even more mealiness action, like banning certain rifles and ignoring far deadlier hand guns and other weapons.

Who on this forum is calling for that. Who on this thread made that suggestion?

Were did I say all gun control measures originated in the Kyra Memorial Spin room?

Well who then are you speaking to if not to the people who frequent this forum?

Legislation is not written in the spin room.

Such obvious trolling

(07-08-2016 07:33 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Such obvious trolling

So youre cashing out? Come on man. Im just asking you to stop talking about what people outside of this forum say and actually talk to each other here.

Gun sales are going to escalate.

Just bought Smith & Wesson and Sturm-Ruger stocks. They are near their highs but I see them going much higher.

Too bad many of the other manufacturers (Glock, Baretta, Remington) are private.

(07-08-2016 12:37 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(07-08-2016 12:33 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  What we need is for reasonable gun owners such as my friend to come forward and explain exactly what gun control measures can be taking that will allow law abiding citizens to retain their rights but at the same time keep guns out of the hands of would be criminals.

I've always said I am all for thorough background checks but not retention of records because that has been used in the past to confiscate weapons at a later date.

Same here. I don't even have a problem with some regulation on high cap mags...but.. Im not sure at this point how you are going to stop people from obtaining them now with so many already in circulation.