(05-22-2016 06:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 04:45 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 08:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 07:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 07:38 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I would argue that Tennessee is our Northern border and that Kentucky is a nice buffer. Outside of Vanderbilt the SEC has no city schools. And Vanderbilt as an academic elite doesn't really qualify as a city school anyway.

In that case JR, you could say that your buffer is inadequate. If your stock-in-trade is football, Kentucky is the SEC's version of the Maginot Line.

Except that with the exclusion of Ohio State nothing that borders it to the North, Northeast, or West has a football first school, or at least not one of any quality. And since UK academics aren't Big 10 quality they still serve as what they are.

I'd say Kentucky is definitely our Northern border. Southern culture is alive and well in KY. The school may not be a great football product, but they do actually care about the sport. It's just that they aren't terribly good at it and I would say that probably has more to do with the local lack of development with regards to football talent.

I think the inverse is true for basketball in most SEC locales. The sport is not important enough at the high school level to produce a lot of fundamentally strong players.

That and they are founding members. I can't imagine a world where Kentucky isn't in the SEC.

Reread my post. I didn't say we were giving up Kentucky. I said they formed a buffer against the bottom of the Big 10 and part of the Northeastern ACC.

I understood. I was just commenting on the idea that Kentucky was a slight outlier compared to the rest of the league.

(05-22-2016 07:34 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 06:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 04:45 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 08:40 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 07:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  In that case JR, you could say that your buffer is inadequate. If your stock-in-trade is football, Kentucky is the SEC's version of the Maginot Line.

Except that with the exclusion of Ohio State nothing that borders it to the North, Northeast, or West has a football first school, or at least not one of any quality. And since UK academics aren't Big 10 quality they still serve as what they are.

I'd say Kentucky is definitely our Northern border. Southern culture is alive and well in KY. The school may not be a great football product, but they do actually care about the sport. It's just that they aren't terribly good at it and I would say that probably has more to do with the local lack of development with regards to football talent.

I think the inverse is true for basketball in most SEC locales. The sport is not important enough at the high school level to produce a lot of fundamentally strong players.

That and they are founding members. I can't imagine a world where Kentucky isn't in the SEC.

Reread my post. I didn't say we were giving up Kentucky. I said they formed a buffer against the bottom of the Big 10 and part of the Northeastern ACC.

I understood. I was just commenting on the idea that Kentucky was a slight outlier compared to the rest of the league.

Of course the optimum parsing would be as follows:

SEC: picks up North Carolina State and Virginia Tech from the ACC. Picks up Oklahoma and Oklahoma State from the Big 12.

SEC East: Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, North Carolina State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech
SEC Central: Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
SEC West: Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M

ACC picks up: Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Texas, West Virginia

ACC North: Boston College, Duke, North Carolina, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia
ACC South: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Wake Forest, West Virginia
ACC West: Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Miami, Texas

Texas Tech & T.C.U. head to the PAC.

The optimum would be for Oklahoma and Texas to join the SEC.
For marketing purposes, it's always best to keep conferences contiguous....better for fans too.

(05-22-2016 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  The optimum would be for Oklahoma and Texas to join the SEC.
For marketing purposes, it's always best to keep conferences contiguous....better for fans too.

The problem is in adding enough markets and brands to the ACC to elevate its value.

But I do agree about contiguity.

If we're talking about the version of parsing the Big 12 where everyone gets 2-3 schools then I agree that TCU and Houston are probably the top TX schools, outside of UT itself, that would benefit the ACC.

If the SEC and ACC were to split the Big 12 down the middle though then I could see a lot of benefit to that as well.

Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, and Oklahoma State to the SEC.

TCU, Houston, Kansas, Iowa State, West Virginia, and let's say UConn to round things out for the ACC.

With all the insanity at Baylor right now, I don't see anyone taking them. This isn't the first time the athletic department has been mired in a scandal like this. Remember the murder that took place under Dave Bliss'(former basketball coach) watch? Whoever is in charge down there has some real soul searching to do.

SEC

West: Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas
Central: Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn
East: Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky

ACC

West: TCU, Houston, Kansas, Iowa State, Louisville
North: Boston College, UConn, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
East: Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC State, Duke
South: Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Wake Forest

Notre Dame can remain affiliated and if they ever do join in full then the league can split into 3 divisions of 7.

(05-22-2016 10:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  The optimum would be for Oklahoma and Texas to join the SEC.
For marketing purposes, it's always best to keep conferences contiguous....better for fans too.

The problem is in adding enough markets and brands to the ACC to elevate its value.

But I do agree about contiguity.

We will be fine JR. The ACC is in the process of pulling itself up by it's bootstraps (with teams in two of the last three football championship games and with teams in two of the last three basketball championship games). The ACC just needs to solidify the markets that we represent and that is being done on the field.
Texas and Oklahoma need to be in the SEC where they can help grow the ESPN properties into a more dominant force than ever before. The ACC can expand with UConn, Cincinnati, South Carolina, Northwestern, Vanderbilt or West Virginia (which ever Notre Dame is most comfortable with and the two that ESPN projects the best coverage with and in some cases, will pay for).

From your list, XLance, ACC can expand easily with UConn, Cincinnati, West Virginia. I am no mole in the SEC or bwunjee offices, and I have a hard time imagining South Carolina, Northwestern or Vanderbilt leaving their top-of-the-heap conferences for the ACC. That's no dig at the ACC; rather, I see no motivating factor for any of these 3 universities to leave their current affiliations.

One Ram's opinion.

(05-22-2016 10:44 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-22-2016 08:52 PM)XLance Wrote:  The optimum would be for Oklahoma and Texas to join the SEC.
For marketing purposes, it's always best to keep conferences contiguous....better for fans too.

The problem is in adding enough markets and brands to the ACC to elevate its value.

But I do agree about contiguity.

The ACC has the markets, they just need better depth in the football department. The Big East additions of Miami, VT and BC were supposed to elevate the ACC into THE power football conference. Instead, those schools fell down to the conferences average rather than raise it. Pitt and 'cuse were not the greatest of football additions, but Louisville is one. If more expansion were to happen in the ACC, especially if a network develops, adding two strong football programs would seem to be the way to go.

Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

Would this work?

SEC gets Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas & TT

ACC gets Texas, TCU, Baylor, & WV

Divisions (?)
SEC
Oklahoma, Okl St, Missouri, TT, Arkansas, Kansas

Alabama, LSU, A&M, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Auburn, SC, Miss State, Kentucky

ACC
Texas, TCU, Baylor, Louisville, Miami, WV

FSU, GT, VT, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC

Clemson, NC, Duke, Virginia, NC State, WF

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

say what you want about Louisville, but I go out of my way to watch Clemson play them. I did not do that for Maryland and certainly wouldn't for UConn. Not sure how the rest of Clemson and FSU fans feel about it.

(05-24-2016 10:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

(05-24-2016 10:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

So far, the ACC has taken 1 Big East school (VT) it didn't want. I don't expect that number to go up.

(05-25-2016 10:06 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 10:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

So far, the ACC has taken 1 Big East school (VT) it didn't want. I don't expect that number to go up.

I would lay money on it that They would do whatever They could to keep Them.

(05-25-2016 10:06 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 10:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

So far, the ACC has taken 1 Big East school (VT) it didn't want. I don't expect that number to go up.

While this "may" be true ("didn't want" versus "didn't want with that pick," are two different things), I can definitely see it as a blessing in disguise for the conference.

While postulating alternate realities is obviously fraut with danger, the wisdom of the masses would probably say that if Tech was not in the ACC, then the SEC would have grabbed Tech and A&M instead of A&M and Missouri.

Assuming Syracuse got in as originally planned, the ACC still could have grabbed Tech and Pitt, or maybe Pitt and West Virginia or Pitt and Louisville etc, but by having Tech already in the fold they kept the SEC out of Virginia.

It may have also meant the Big 10 expanded not with Maryland and Rutgers but with Missouri and Kansas. OR it could have caused Big 10 to go ahead and go to 16 with both groups, at which point perhaps the conference seems alot more unstable as the SEC might want to match the Big 10 with 16.

Basically, perhaps (and I'll emphasis it: perhaps) the ACC is more stable today because they had Tech in the fold when realignment happened again.

(05-25-2016 10:06 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 10:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 08:53 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(05-24-2016 06:01 AM)FloridaState1990 Wrote:  Norte dame joins as a full member at 15 leaving one spot open. My money is on Cincinnati. No offense but West Virginia would never get the votes. The only way they get in is if current members defect.

The ACC could have taken West Virginia at any time since it was formed. It hasn't, and most likely it never will.

They held their noses when inviting Louisville.

True they held their noses. But it is also true they took them. WVU would have the same leverage that Louisville had within the ACC plus one, Louisville.

So far, the ACC has taken 1 Big East school (VT) it didn't want. I don't expect that number to go up.

While this "may" be true ("didn't want" versus "didn't want with that pick," are two different things), I can definitely see it as a blessing in disguise for the conference.

While postulating alternate realities is obviously fraut with danger, the wisdom of the masses would probably say that if Tech was not in the ACC, then the SEC would have grabbed Tech and A&M instead of A&M and Missouri.

Assuming Syracuse got in as originally planned, the ACC still could have grabbed Tech and Pitt, or maybe Pitt and West Virginia or Pitt and Louisville etc, but by having Tech already in the fold they kept the SEC out of Virginia.

It may have also meant the Big 10 expanded not with Maryland and Rutgers but with Missouri and Kansas. OR it could have caused Big 10 to go ahead and go to 16 with both groups, at which point perhaps the conference seems alot more unstable as the SEC might want to match the Big 10 with 16.

Basically, perhaps (and I'll emphasis it: perhaps) the ACC is more stable today because they had Tech in the fold when realignment happened again.