Looks like NC State is investing in a multimedia studio...

I'm guessing this is a forerunner to an ACC Network? I believe SEC schools did something similar in the run up to the SEC Network being created.

(03-23-2016 06:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Looks like NC State is investing in a multimedia studio...

I'm guessing this is a forerunner to an ACC Network? I believe SEC schools did something similar in the run up to the SEC Network being created.

I think they have to upgrade just to stream. I wouldn't read much into this. A lot of schools were not digital ready with regards to audio/visual.

Just watch the T3 stuff the schools and ESPN sold off. If it starts getting bought back then an ACCN is coming. If not, it is just them doing like JR said. So far I have not heard of anything being bought back, but I could have missed it.

If you want to be really positive...NCST to the SEC and they are upgrading for the move.

(03-25-2016 01:21 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Just watch the T3 stuff the schools and ESPN sold off. If it starts getting bought back then an ACCN is coming. If not, it is just them doing like JR said. So far I have not heard of anything being bought back, but I could have missed it.

If you want to be really positive...NCST to the SEC and they are upgrading for the move.

I wasn't going to take the risk of saying that but it is the first thing that came to mind for me. Virginia Tech might not be far behind. Why? The 2010 deal that died in 2011 was A&M, Missouri, N.C. State, and Virginia Tech to the SEC.

Notre Dame, Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma to the ACC. When that was nixed by Chapel Hill Maryland defected. The resulting network & payout from that deal would have been what they needed. IMO the only way the ACC plays catch up is to revisit that deal. Otherwise they are in for a slow death. And if it is not that deal specifically it will be one very similar with most of the same players.

I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

Interesting combo but overall a very good one I think, especially if Miami can keep improving their basketball

(03-28-2016 08:21 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Interesting combo but overall a very good one I think, especially if Miami can keep improving their basketball

I think if you moved Auburn to the East, Missouri to the West, placed Miami in the West and added Virginia Tech to the East you would have a better balance.

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M

Alabama, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Vanderbilt

Kentucky,South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia Tech

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

VT cared about football. That's their sport. They were OK in the other ones, but if VT regularly started losing to UVA in football, that would be a major concern.

VT football should finally start to improve now that their legendary coach Frank Beamer has retired. He stayed there too long and it's always hard to fire a legend so I'll give that program credit for sending him off in a positive manner.

On a side note, I give Spurrier credit from "firing himself" last season. As a redskins fan, Steve's biggest complaint from NFL people was he didn't put in the time preparing for games that other coaches did. His return to college help elevate USC to heights not seen before, but once that class of players left with Cowney and Connor Shaw, you could tell he wasn't even recruiting like he was before.

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

That is certainly a valuable way to expand to 16. I think though if both conferences were getting raided the moves would be more than just to 16. The only way I think that the Big 10 and SEC could both expand to 16 profitably from the ACC without setting off a Big 12 run as well would be for the Big 10 to take both Virginia Schools and the SEC to take UNC & Duke. Then the remnant could form a formidable 4th conference with the Big 12 and realignment could stop.

We just can't do that out of the Big 12. Whoever gets Texas, or Oklahoma, or both would simply create a greater economic chasm that would only lead to more realignment, and beyond those two there really isn't much there of great value to be able to move on their own into either the Big 10 or SEC.

With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

If the ACC is going to break apart, there's nothing short of an ACCN that can stop it. At that point, damage control/asset control is what ESPN will do. ESPN will move the football powers to the SEC or B12. The remaining valuable pieces will land where they can with the scraps forming an AAC with an appropriate value.

I still don't believe these moves happen in one giant swoop. The last rounds involved one team at a time followed by everyone reevaluating the situation. When two moves happened at the same time, Maryland had finally agreed to switch conferences and Delany rushed to get a pressers ASAP. Rutgers was rumored since the beginning of that football season to have had a B1G invite, but was waiting on the conference to find another school before announcing.

The only other time a major coordinated effort to move in mass numbers was during the formation the the Big 12.

The only difference in today's chess game is the supposed payout of the B1G schools. I'm still not buying these huge projections as I can't see how B1G football ratings/value is > let alone = the SEC's, but I'll let the bidding process run its coarse.

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

(03-31-2016 12:15 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

If the ACC is going to break apart, there's nothing short of an ACCN that can stop it. At that point, damage control/asset control is what ESPN will do. ESPN will move the football powers to the SEC or B12. The remaining valuable pieces will land where they can with the scraps forming an AAC with an appropriate value.

I still don't believe these moves happen in one giant swoop. The last rounds involved one team at a time followed by everyone reevaluating the situation. When two moves happened at the same time, Maryland had finally agreed to switch conferences and Delany rushed to get a pressers ASAP. Rutgers was rumored since the beginning of that football season to have had a B1G invite, but was waiting on the conference to find another school before announcing.

The only other time a major coordinated effort to move in mass numbers was during the formation the the Big 12.

The only difference in today's chess game is the supposed payout of the B1G schools. I'm still not buying these huge projections as I can't see how B1G football ratings/value is > let alone = the SEC's, but I'll let the bidding process run its coarse.

As far as moves go most of them have really been two at a time whether they were announced in unison (Pitt & Syracuse) or weeks or a few months apart (Missouri and A&M) & (Maryland and Rutgers) & (Arkansas & South Carolina).
The ACC has added essentially 3 (Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech).

I agree with you that the Big 10 TV negotiations are likely not to be the huge numbers their fanboys predict. I also don't think they are going to be adding 2 anytime soon unless FOX & ESPN decide to divvy up the Big 12 for their own reasons (also very unlikely).

I think 2017 will pass and we'll talking about the same stuff. IMO if the ACC adds 1 or both of the top brands from the Big 12 it will bring more stability. The thing is they won't come without buddies. So, making room and eliminating duplication will be important for both the ACC and ESPN since the latter can make more by placing the duplicated markets where they can earn them more.

(03-31-2016 01:43 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

If they wanted to divide the markets up between 2 leagues then they could do something like this...

Move Virginia Tech and NC State to the SEC. Move Oklahoma, Kansas State, West Virginia, and Baylor to the SEC as well.

Then take Texas, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State and move them to the ACC. Perhaps Notre Dame goes all in and then they can add UConn or Cincinnati.

After all this, you have several counterparts from one conference to the next that either share the same market or are traditional rivals in the same region. Making sure these schools play regularly guarantees a lot of content for 2 networks and could save every school involved by giving it a profitable home.

SEC/ACC

Florida/Florida State
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
NC State/North Carolina
Virginia Tech/Virginia
West Virginia/Pittsburgh
Kentucky/Louisville
Kansas State/Iowa State
Missouri/Kansas
Oklahoma/Oklahoma State
Baylor/TCU
Texas A&M/Texas

As a follow up to the above post...

Bundle the two networks together, offer a streaming option, and you've solved a lot of problems.

The two networks having interchangeable content in multiple sports guarantees a common viewership even in places where there might not have previously been one.

(04-01-2016 11:18 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If they wanted to divide the markets up between 2 leagues then they could do something like this...

Move Virginia Tech and NC State to the SEC. Move Oklahoma, Kansas State, West Virginia, and Baylor to the SEC as well.

Then take Texas, TCU, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State and move them to the ACC. Perhaps Notre Dame goes all in and then they can add UConn or Cincinnati.

After all this, you have several counterparts from one conference to the next that either share the same market or are traditional rivals in the same region. Making sure these schools play regularly guarantees a lot of content for 2 networks and could save every school involved by giving it a profitable home.

SEC/ACC

Florida/Florida State
Georgia/Georgia Tech
South Carolina/Clemson
NC State/North Carolina
Virginia Tech/Virginia
West Virginia/Pittsburgh
Kentucky/Louisville
Kansas State/Iowa State
Missouri/Kansas
Oklahoma/Oklahoma State
Baylor/TCU
Texas A&M/Texas

I like this alignment. The question is whether ESPN is willing to pay for all 10 schools.

As for N.D. they could remain independent and play in an entire division of the ACC which if they win head to head they make the conference playoffs.

(03-31-2016 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 01:43 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.