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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 01:06 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:57 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:54 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:37 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Hell, our 2011 and 2012 teams, which were some of the best the school ahs ever seen came out of recruiting classes with very low league rankings.

You're average recruiting ranking in 09 and 10 was 3rd place...

'
This was the 247 Team Talent Composite rankings for the SBC going into last reason.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Footbal...erence=SBC

My point was Arkansas State didn't have scrub talent in 11 and 12 like Chief said. 3rd place on 247 is high enough to win the league. They weren't winning the league with bottom feeder talent, they were good players.

We didn't have scrub talent...only Dahbeed is allowed to use our talent in that note, but the point is that rankings mean very little. Some of the best players in our history went unrecruited by teams at our level.
02-04-2016 01:36 PM
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APPrising Offline
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Post: #62
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 01:20 PM)AppAttack Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:48 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:27 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  This is pretty fun to watch. Every year, those who do well in the rankings love it, and those who don't scream about what a sham it is.

One of the previous posters is right. It's not an exact science, but it's clear that there is a pretty big correlation between the 247 recruiting rankings and what happens on the field. You can't tell me the teams on the bottom aren't perrenial bottom feeders. You can go back through the last few classes and see the same story with only a few "yeah, but see..." type exceptions.

They correlate well with most teams, even Texas State. They've traditionally had middle of the pack recruiting (not great recruiting like what's being said), and it showed on the field in 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. Texas State's last season was bad, but no one has ever said recruiting was all there is. Your coach has to, you know, show up and stuff.

Not really.

First, you can't measure a class by how a team does the next year because many freshman get redshirted at this level. You really can't start ranking until the following year.

So on that note:

Georgia State: Bottom of the barrel recruiting for a few years, finished 4th in the league last year

Arkansas State: Only one recruiting title in 7 years, and that was a class that actually didn't produce very well, 4 conference championships in the last 5 years

Texas State: Generally top 3 or 4 recruiting in league the last few years, they finished last in the conference last season

App State: Never gets highly rated on 247, finished 10-2 last season

11-2 02-13-banana

Perhaps he's vacating one of the wins. You know, because of the laser pointer...
02-04-2016 01:45 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #63
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 01:45 PM)APPrising Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:20 PM)AppAttack Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:48 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:27 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  This is pretty fun to watch. Every year, those who do well in the rankings love it, and those who don't scream about what a sham it is.

One of the previous posters is right. It's not an exact science, but it's clear that there is a pretty big correlation between the 247 recruiting rankings and what happens on the field. You can't tell me the teams on the bottom aren't perrenial bottom feeders. You can go back through the last few classes and see the same story with only a few "yeah, but see..." type exceptions.

They correlate well with most teams, even Texas State. They've traditionally had middle of the pack recruiting (not great recruiting like what's being said), and it showed on the field in 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. Texas State's last season was bad, but no one has ever said recruiting was all there is. Your coach has to, you know, show up and stuff.

Not really.

First, you can't measure a class by how a team does the next year because many freshman get redshirted at this level. You really can't start ranking until the following year.

So on that note:

Georgia State: Bottom of the barrel recruiting for a few years, finished 4th in the league last year

Arkansas State: Only one recruiting title in 7 years, and that was a class that actually didn't produce very well, 4 conference championships in the last 5 years

Texas State: Generally top 3 or 4 recruiting in league the last few years, they finished last in the conference last season

App State: Never gets highly rated on 247, finished 10-2 last season

11-2 02-13-banana

Perhaps he's vacating one of the wins. You know, because of the laser pointer...

I sort of forgot to count the Camelia Bowl.
02-04-2016 01:49 PM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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Post: #64
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 01:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:06 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:57 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:54 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 12:37 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Hell, our 2011 and 2012 teams, which were some of the best the school ahs ever seen came out of recruiting classes with very low league rankings.

You're average recruiting ranking in 09 and 10 was 3rd place...

'
This was the 247 Team Talent Composite rankings for the SBC going into last reason.

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Footbal...erence=SBC

My point was Arkansas State didn't have scrub talent in 11 and 12 like Chief said. 3rd place on 247 is high enough to win the league. They weren't winning the league with bottom feeder talent, they were good players.

We didn't have scrub talent...only Dahbeed is allowed to use our talent in that note, but the point is that rankings mean very little. Some of the best players in our history went unrecruited by teams at our level.
Not sure I agree with the very little, IF we are talking about accurate rankings.

I have always been told that there are only 300 or so players in any given year that are truly exceptional talents that everyone agrees on, and after that there are 2K-3K prospects where there is little separation, and it comes down to development.

Here is an article that probably truer for the schools landing the very top prospects.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...son-020116
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 01:58 PM by Seminole Indian.)
02-04-2016 01:55 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 01:49 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:45 PM)APPrising Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:20 PM)AppAttack Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:48 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:27 AM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  This is pretty fun to watch. Every year, those who do well in the rankings love it, and those who don't scream about what a sham it is.

One of the previous posters is right. It's not an exact science, but it's clear that there is a pretty big correlation between the 247 recruiting rankings and what happens on the field. You can't tell me the teams on the bottom aren't perrenial bottom feeders. You can go back through the last few classes and see the same story with only a few "yeah, but see..." type exceptions.

They correlate well with most teams, even Texas State. They've traditionally had middle of the pack recruiting (not great recruiting like what's being said), and it showed on the field in 6-6 and 7-5 seasons. Texas State's last season was bad, but no one has ever said recruiting was all there is. Your coach has to, you know, show up and stuff.

Not really.

First, you can't measure a class by how a team does the next year because many freshman get redshirted at this level. You really can't start ranking until the following year.

So on that note:

Georgia State: Bottom of the barrel recruiting for a few years, finished 4th in the league last year

Arkansas State: Only one recruiting title in 7 years, and that was a class that actually didn't produce very well, 4 conference championships in the last 5 years

Texas State: Generally top 3 or 4 recruiting in league the last few years, they finished last in the conference last season

App State: Never gets highly rated on 247, finished 10-2 last season

11-2 02-13-banana

Perhaps he's vacating one of the wins. You know, because of the laser pointer...

I sort of forgot to count the Camelia Bowl.

OOC games count, who knew.04-cheers
02-04-2016 02:09 PM
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NewJersey GATA Offline
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Post: #66
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
I'll take a great recruiting class over a poor class every year. Having talented depth in the 2nd string and special teams is often the key to winning close games throughout the long college season.
02-04-2016 02:14 PM
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APPrising Offline
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Post: #67
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 11:52 AM)sidslidkid Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:48 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  App State: Never gets highly rated on 247, finished 10-2 last season

They finished 1st in the Belt in 2014.
http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Footbal...erence=SBC

14 or 15 of the guys from that class started at some point during the season last year as sophomores. A lot of them started as freshmen, too. I'll be sad to see this class leave in 2 years.
02-04-2016 02:52 PM
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boroeagle2 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 02:09 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:49 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:45 PM)APPrising Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 01:20 PM)AppAttack Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 11:48 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  Not really.

First, you can't measure a class by how a team does the next year because many freshman get redshirted at this level. You really can't start ranking until the following year.

So on that note:

Georgia State: Bottom of the barrel recruiting for a few years, finished 4th in the league last year

Arkansas State: Only one recruiting title in 7 years, and that was a class that actually didn't produce very well, 4 conference championships in the last 5 years

Texas State: Generally top 3 or 4 recruiting in league the last few years, they finished last in the conference last season

App State: Never gets highly rated on 247, finished 10-2 last season

11-2 02-13-banana

Perhaps he's vacating one of the wins. You know, because of the laser pointer...

I sort of forgot to count the Camelia Bowl.

OOC games count, who knew.04-cheers
ISWYDT
02-04-2016 03:07 PM
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panama Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 09:10 AM)boroeagle2 Wrote:  
(02-03-2016 09:29 PM)PantherPride Wrote:  I'm not saying our recruiting class is top tier, but I definitely think it is better than most people think it is. But, it definitely is our best recruiting class, now these kids just have to buy in to what this senior class established.

I heard a little mention of yall's class this morning on 92.9, they even played a clip of CTM talking about the class. I haven't heard our recruiting be talked about at all on there yet, so that's nice pub for you guys.

Well it is an Atlanta station. I dont expect us to get on the radio in Macon or Savannah either. Nice that 92.9 is finally coming around.
02-04-2016 03:18 PM
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TroyFootball05 Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
You guys keep saying the rankings mean very little, while noting exceptions as your arguments.

Occasionally, an App State or a Georgia State or a Texas State will outperform or underperform expectations. More often than not, over the years, middle of the pack recruiting has meant middle of the pack results, and so on. These are not exceptions, they are generally the rule when you look at schools like South Alabama, Arkansas State, Louisiana, Troy, NMSU, Idaho, Georgia State, ULM etc. Sometimes, an off year happens, but most of the time you're not going to see a top tier recruiting program produce bottom tier results, and vice versa.

Georgia State outperformed their recruiting report, but how many times have they not? Texas State underperformed their recruiting report, but how many times have they strayed? The answer is not much. They've been middle of the pack in recruiting and had a couple middle of the years before this year.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 04:27 PM by TroyFootball05.)
02-04-2016 04:24 PM
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Oldyeller Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
How do transfers calculate into class rankings? Ga state would certainly be the exception based on class rankings but the quality of the transfers into the program last year could be exceptional and will likely never happen again. Not sure if referencing the program for this discussion works.
02-04-2016 05:55 PM
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WolfBird Offline
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SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 05:55 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  How do transfers calculate into class rankings? Ga state would certainly be the exception based on class rankings but the quality of the transfers into the program last year could be exceptional and will likely never happen again. Not sure if referencing the program for this discussion works.

They don't figure at all.


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02-04-2016 07:03 PM
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Seminole Indian Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 02:14 PM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  I'll take a great recruiting class over a poor class every year. Having talented depth in the 2nd string and special teams is often the key to winning close games throughout the long college season.
You got it.

GaSo, GaSt USA, TxSt and AppSt's biggest issues has been depth, and it takes a little time to recruit a full FBS caliber roster (although GaSo is certainly addressing that issue in a hurry).

Like I have said on another forum getting GaSo and AppSt, was among the biggest gets in realignment when it comes to football, and GaSt, USA, and TxSt have as much potential in football as most G5 programs.

While I do root for the more tenured FBS programs( A-State, ULM, ULL, NMSU, and Idaho) , right now only ULL and A-State are showing that they can keep up with all these upstart programs, and I would like to see than change. If it does not, so be it.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 07:11 PM by Seminole Indian.)
02-04-2016 07:10 PM
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TheMackAttack Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
I'm not worried about where App finishes in the rankings. This class is smart, athletic, and full of difference makers. I wish we could have kept Kendall Brown and landed another DL, but the talent level is very high in this group.
(This post was last modified: 02-04-2016 08:54 PM by TheMackAttack.)
02-04-2016 08:54 PM
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Oldyeller Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 07:10 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 02:14 PM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  I'll take a great recruiting class over a poor class every year. Having talented depth in the 2nd string and special teams is often the key to winning close games throughout the long college season.
You got it.

GaSo, GaSt USA, TxSt and AppSt's biggest issues has been depth, and it takes a little time to recruit a full FBS caliber roster (although GaSo is certainly addressing that issue in a hurry).

Like I have said on another forum getting GaSo and AppSt, was among the biggest gets in realignment when it comes to football, and GaSt, USA, and TxSt have as much potential in football as most G5 programs.

While I do root for the more tenured FBS programs( A-State, ULM, ULL, NMSU, and Idaho) , right now only ULL and A-State are showing that they can keep up with all these upstart programs, and I would like to see than change. If it does not, so be it.


The only up starts are USA and G state. Ga state didn't compete last year? USA has the second best SB recruiting class based on 247. Texas state has consistently produced a top tier recruiting class despite being a newer transition team. The SB has the potential for vertical movement in the G5 and FBS for that matter more quickly than any other IMO.
02-04-2016 08:57 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #76
RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 05:55 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  How do transfers calculate into class rankings? Ga state would certainly be the exception based on class rankings but the quality of the transfers into the program last year could be exceptional and will likely never happen again. Not sure if referencing the program for this discussion works.

They don't. Neither do blue shirts from previous years.

That's been the thing about stAte's ranking this year,. It looks like we signed a 20 person class, and finished 3rd in the SBC, but we had 7 kids this class who are either FBS transfers, or were Blue shirt kids who played last season, but counted towards this class. Makes us really hard to rank.
02-04-2016 09:59 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 08:57 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 07:10 PM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 02:14 PM)NewJersey GATA Wrote:  I'll take a great recruiting class over a poor class every year. Having talented depth in the 2nd string and special teams is often the key to winning close games throughout the long college season.
You got it.

GaSo, GaSt USA, TxSt and AppSt's biggest issues has been depth, and it takes a little time to recruit a full FBS caliber roster (although GaSo is certainly addressing that issue in a hurry).

Like I have said on another forum getting GaSo and AppSt, was among the biggest gets in realignment when it comes to football, and GaSt, USA, and TxSt have as much potential in football as most G5 programs.

While I do root for the more tenured FBS programs( A-State, ULM, ULL, NMSU, and Idaho) , right now only ULL and A-State are showing that they can keep up with all these upstart programs, and I would like to see than change. If it does not, so be it.


The only up starts are USA and G state. Ga state didn't compete last year? USA has the second best SB recruiting class based on 247. Texas state has consistently produced a top tier recruiting class despite being a newer transition team. The SB has the potential for vertical movement in the G5 and FBS for that matter more quickly than any other IMO.

He didn't call you guys start ups, he called up guys upstart programs. There is quite a difference.
02-04-2016 10:00 PM
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trojanbrutha Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
We had all those colors as well... red, blue, green, grey...the usual...

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02-04-2016 10:54 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 10:54 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  We had all those colors as well... red, blue, green, grey...the usual...

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Not this year you didn't. You signed 28 countable kids for recruiting services, we signed 20.

Side note, but I see AState leapfrogged Troy, and then USA leapfrogged us both now.
02-04-2016 10:59 PM
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trojanbrutha Offline
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RE: SBC NSD Class Rankings
(02-04-2016 10:59 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(02-04-2016 10:54 PM)trojanbrutha Wrote:  We had all those colors as well... red, blue, green, grey...the usual...

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Not this year you didn't. You signed 28 countable kids for recruiting services, we signed 20.

Side note, but I see AState leapfrogged Troy, and then USA leapfrogged us both now.

I'm not surprised...we still have a state champion QB with no rating...previously committed as a walk-on to auburn...we'll see if anyone from jags jungle will help us out with that.
02-05-2016 01:01 AM
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