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1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
JR', is this what you were hinting at when you said the SEC was looking east and was luke warm about OU?

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
Looking like B12 will have a CCG with 10 teams. Should pass with a 7-3 vote.
Expansion is not dead however
Still looking like it will be 2 now and possibly 2 after the B10(assumably) guts the ACC
@MurrDCU OU has talked to B10-low interest wants ACC big market schools.also has talked to sec.
@MurrDCU OU isn't going anywhere. Boren has told Gee that they are just trying to force the issue to get B12N
@MurrDCU sec still hoping for VT and NcSt after B10 pulls off UVA,GT,UNC, and Duke.
@MurrDCU ESPN may be willing to sell share of rights of LHN to B12

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 ouch, shouldn't be much resistance if there's nothing left. What % does B1G have at landing this move?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU pretty high %. I'd say 75.

@MurrDCU UT wins all the way around. Gets a huge buyout(in) and then gets share of B12N.

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 so if LHN becomes B12N and ACC gets picked, would a couple of ACC teams wind up in the B12?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU that's what B12 leaders think. We'd get our pick of the leftovers. Could even see a merger with the best of the rest

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 that would trump the AAC candidates. Nice. Think the SEC would expand with more than VT/NCSt in this possible scenario?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU nope. 16 is their limit from what the B12 was told.
@MurrDCU B12 must expand in at least 2 good sized markets for B12N to be feasible from a profitably standpoint and must do so soon
@MurrDCU we can't wait for ACC to implode
@MurrDCU must be proactive for once

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 hearing anything about what the PAC is thinking?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU not much. I know they looked at Houston and UNLV a few months back
01-20-2016 05:21 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(01-20-2016 05:21 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  JR', is this what you were hinting at when you said the SEC was looking east and was luke warm about OU?

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
Looking like B12 will have a CCG with 10 teams. Should pass with a 7-3 vote.
Expansion is not dead however
Still looking like it will be 2 now and possibly 2 after the B10(assumably) guts the ACC
@MurrDCU OU has talked to B10-low interest wants ACC big market schools.also has talked to sec.
@MurrDCU OU isn't going anywhere. Boren has told Gee that they are just trying to force the issue to get B12N
@MurrDCU sec still hoping for VT and NcSt after B10 pulls off UVA,GT,UNC, and Duke.
@MurrDCU ESPN may be willing to sell share of rights of LHN to B12

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 ouch, shouldn't be much resistance if there's nothing left. What % does B1G have at landing this move?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU pretty high %. I'd say 75.

@MurrDCU UT wins all the way around. Gets a huge buyout(in) and then gets share of B12N.

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 so if LHN becomes B12N and ACC gets picked, would a couple of ACC teams wind up in the B12?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU that's what B12 leaders think. We'd get our pick of the leftovers. Could even see a merger with the best of the rest

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 that would trump the AAC candidates. Nice. Think the SEC would expand with more than VT/NCSt in this possible scenario?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU nope. 16 is their limit from what the B12 was told.
@MurrDCU B12 must expand in at least 2 good sized markets for B12N to be feasible from a profitably standpoint and must do so soon
@MurrDCU we can't wait for ACC to implode
@MurrDCU must be proactive for once

Murr ‏@MurrDCU 19h19 hours ago
@MHver3 hearing anything about what the PAC is thinking?
MHver3 ‏@MHver3 19h19 hours ago
@MurrDCU not much. I know they looked at Houston and UNLV a few months back

Not exactly. First if there is a cap on the SEC at 16 teams the SEC didn't put it there, ESPN did and I hope we buck the hell out of it. We don't need someone else in our footprint's core. If the Big 10 claims the academic prizes of the ACC we need to protect our brand by finally taking F.S.U. & Clemson. The Big 12 can expand to the North & Northeast.

If the Big 10 takes Duke, Virginia, North Carolina and Georgia Tech and we settle for Virginia Tech and N.C. State Sankey ought to be fired and then run out of Birmingham on a rail.

It's time we grew a pair and simply told ESPN if you want us to remain when the this contract is up, it's time you did what we wanted for a change instead of telling us who you will and won't pay for so that you can siphon off of our region in recruting to prop up your investments and options in the Big 12.

We shouldn't give up any SEC caliber schools within the heart of our footprint, especially as we are moving to streaming where brands are the paycheck.

If the Big 12 wants Pitt, B.C., UConn, Syracuse, and to give a sweetheart deal to the Irish then fine! If they want Miami have at em. Louisville? Great. But Virginia Tech, Florida State and Clemson are southern and fit us. If N.C. State is our ticket into North Carolina then so be it.

What I was referring to was a movement to 18 with the aforementioned and in that regard only is this anything like I was thinking.

Besides, MHVer has seldom been right about anything either. Fluguar, the Dude, and MHVer along with Tuxedo Yoda have been some of the biggest internet scamsters in all of this realignment.

I'd say everyone is in play, and our preference would be for Southern schools to the East, if not South. Failing that we go for OU and a greater presence in the DFW region.
******************************************************************************************************************

Now all of that said it wouldn't surprise me given the new direction of TV delivery if ESPN wanted to dump their overhead in the ACC. They have assembled there a bunch of market niche schools, basketball first schools, and very few football brands. But what I don't see is a merger of the Big 12 with the rest of the ACC. What I could envision would be most of the Big 12 including UT & OU being used as the anchor for some of the ACC product. What that would entail remains to be seen.
(This post was last modified: 01-20-2016 07:10 PM by JRsec.)
01-20-2016 06:48 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #43
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
I still have trouble believing that UNC would move to the Big Ten which means some of those other products probably won't head that way either.

I remember Mr. SEC talking about the prospect of 3 NC schools and 1 VA school coming on as a package. I think that would be in our interest. Personally, I would be fine with taking as many ACC schools as possible...somewhere between 6-10 and consolidating the region. We would also have the added benefit of diversifying our interests beyond football and seriously upping our academic cred. I know 10 isn't going to happen, but a man can dream, right? I do think 6 is possible if it's the right combo.

Any of these combos would work for me:

1. Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, Duke, UVA
2. FSU, Clemson, UNC, Duke, NC State, UVA
3. FSU, Clemson, NC State, VT, Pitt, Louisvlle
4. FSU, Clemson, UNC, Duke, UVA, VT
5. FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State, VT, Pitt
01-20-2016 08:02 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #44
1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(01-20-2016 08:02 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I still have trouble believing that UNC would move to the Big Ten which means some of those other products probably won't head that way either.

I remember Mr. SEC talking about the prospect of 3 NC schools and 1 VA school coming on as a package. I think that would be in our interest. Personally, I would be fine with taking as many ACC schools as possible...somewhere between 6-10 and consolidating the region. We would also have the added benefit of diversifying our interests beyond football and seriously upping our academic cred. I know 10 isn't going to happen, but a man can dream, right? I do think 6 is possible if it's the right combo.

Any of these combos would work for me:

1. Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, UNC, Duke, UVA
2. FSU, Clemson, UNC, Duke, NC State, UVA
3. FSU, Clemson, NC State, VT, Pitt, Louisvlle
4. FSU, Clemson, UNC, Duke, UVA, VT
5. FSU, Clemson, GT, NC State, VT, Pitt

I can see NC, Duke & Virginia moving together & FSU, Clemson & GT sticking together as well. I could see 1 happening along FSU, Clemson, GT, VT, NC State & Louisville. I would prefer to see Louisville stick with that group.
01-21-2016 11:21 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
I think this could work.....

SEC
The SEC adds Florida St., Clemson, Virginia Tech, and NC State and follows a model that includes some permanent WEST and EAST divisions members and some FLEX members, that can go either WEST or EAST, with the following permanent divisions:

WEST: Texas A&M-Arkansas-LSU--Missouri-Ole Miss-Mississippi St.
EAST: Clemson-South Carolina-Virginia Tech-NC State-Kentucky-Vanderbilt

And the following FLEX members:

Florida-Georgia-Auburn (FLEX1)

Florida St.-Alabama-Tennessee (FLEX2)

Where Florida-FSU, Auburn-Alabama, and Georgia-Tennessee are locked rivals.

10-game conference schedule. In years where the FLEX members play the WEST or EAST division, the FLEX members are part of that division for CCG purposes. The WEST and EAST permanent members get the FLEX members in 2 out of 4 years and the opposite EAST/WEST permanent members in 1 out of 3 years.

The FLEX members get the WEST and EAST permanent members in 2 out of 4 years, 2 annual FLEX buddies, 1 annual rival, and the other non-rival FLEX members in the opposite pod every other year.

SEC keeps Sugar Bowl (v. B12) and adds permanent annual spot in Orange Bowl (v. Big 12 or B1G or Notre Dame) and a possible spot in the Peach Bowl (v. B1G).

B1G
B1G adds UVA, UNC, Duke, and Syracuse and follows a similar FLEX model:

WEST division permanent: Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, and Illinois.

EAST division permanent: UVA, UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Rutgers, and Maryland.

Purdue-Michigan-Ohio St. and Indiana-Michigan St.-Penn St. are FLEX members that can go either WEST or EAST, but always together and with the locked cross-division pairings of Purdue-Indiana, Michigan-Michigan St., and Penn St.-Ohio St.

10-game conference schedule includes 8 division games and provides equal home-road balance. Both the WEST and EAST permanent members play each of Michigan-Ohio St.-Michigan St.-Penn St. (and Purdue-Indiana) in 2 out of 4 years and the opposite WEST/EAST permanent members in 1 out of 3 years.

The FLEX members play the WEST/EAST permanent members in 2 out of 4 years, 2 annual FLEX buddies, 1 annual rival, and the other non-rival FLEX members in the opposite pod every other year.

B1G keeps the Rose Bowl v. (PAC) and a possible spot in the Orange (v. SEC), and adds a permanent annual spot in the Peach Bowl (v. SEC or Big 12).

BIG 12
Big 12 survives and absorbs the ACC leftovers and goes to 16 by adding Pitt, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest, and Boston College.

The Big 16

EAST: WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Iowa St., Georgia Tech, Miami, Wake Forest, Boston College

WEST: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St., Baylor, TCU, Kansas, Kansas St.

10-game conference schedule includes 8 division games and 2 cross-division games, such that you play cross-division opponents once every 4 years.

Big 16 finally gets a conference television network.

Big 12 keeps the Sugar Bowl (v. SEC) and adds a possible spot in the Orange Bowl (v. SEC) and Peach Bowl (v. B1G).

NOTRE DAME
Notre Dame affiliates with the Big 12 for Olympic sports and a 5-game scheduling affiliation. The scheduling affiliation includes 1 annual game against Texas or Oklahoma, 3 annual rotating games against the EAST, and 1 annual rotating game against the rest of the WEST.

So, Notre Dame plays Texas and Oklahoma 1 out of 2 years; EAST schools in 1 out of 2-3 years; and other WEST schools in 1 out of 6 years.

For Olympic sports scheduling, Notre Dame is scheduled as part of the EAST division and Iowa St. is scheduled as part of the WEST division. The EAST division schools play a 14-game round robin (home-road) and 4 rotating cross-division games (2 home, 2 road). The WEST division schools play a 16-game round robin (home-road) and 2 rotating cross-division games (1 home, 1 road).

Conference bball tournament sets up for FINAL between EAST and WEST division finalists.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2016 03:26 PM by YNot.)
01-21-2016 03:17 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
https://soundcloud.com/user-197203470/se...sion-round

The Dude did a podcast with Greg Poole of BD Illustrated. It's about an hour long so I went a head and wrote down some of the cliff notes since I know you'll all not have complete time to listen to it. Also, just click on the link so they'll record more of them.

Greg Poole of BD Illustrated
SEC expansion happened for SECN $. Texas #1 candidate and A&M another one
Mizzouri made cut due to larger population over WVU

Chris
Mizzou picked due to 6M people vs 2M
Slive sold Mizzou over WVU w/ poor facilities and concourse couldn’t handle influx of SEC travelers
Schools that wanted WVU: Alabama, LSU, Auburn
Concourse issue now fixed with $60M in upgrades
B12 exists only because UT and OU want it to
ACC GOR may have a loophole: Void if ACCN doesn’t come to fruition due to Swofford surcomeventing Florida sunshine laws by meeting with FSU BOT members individually as to not hold an official BOT meeting.
B1G will not accept anyone that is not AAU, references Jim Delany
ACC 7 privates, only Duke is self sufficient
FSU, Clemson are concerned about SOS, FSU with revenue problems
What’s likely to happen, B1G needs to go south. 1. Diluted football product. 2. Exposure to recruiting grounds 3. Problem with their higher academic standards (special admissions)
Thinks B1G will try and get UVA, UNC, GT to come on board and then snap up Notre Dame
SEC would be happy to get into NC and VA markets and then B12 grabs the best of the rest
FSU/Clemson = 85% of ACC football viewership
Next wave of realignment is consolidation of Rights and collective bargaining
Thinks P4 with either ACC or B12
ACC could save revenue issues by contracting schools nog pulling their weight, WF, ‘cuse, BC
FSU approached B1G, which turned them down—lack of AAU status
WVU state has 1.8M people, average ten year TV rating w/ 2.1 = 2,100,000 viewers
B12 will not lose $ from expansion, can’t agree on anything
Only WVU and OU pushing for expansion, were afraid UT’s Patterson was going to take UT to the PAC. OU/WVU asked SEC about membership, SEC said they’d take them, but would not assume any risks at all.
Deregulation vote was designed to hammer the ACC and pardon the B12 led by the B1G
B12 CCG won’t happen soon. B12 thinks more harm can come of it than good. 2/3 in negative factor.
B12 thought Tom Osbourne and Barry Alvarez were big factors in lowering B12 candidates rankings in CFP. Will wait to see how critical 13th point is without those two on the CFP committee.
2017 of the ACC. FSU might not wait much longer.
Thinks B1G has targets on UNC, UVA, Duke, GT
NC State is only self-supporting ACC school. (privates didn’t summit data)
(This post was last modified: 01-29-2016 12:50 AM by murrdcu.)
01-29-2016 12:48 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #47
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(01-29-2016 12:48 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  https://soundcloud.com/user-197203470/se...sion-round

The Dude did a podcast with Greg Poole of BD Illustrated. It's about an hour long so I went a head and wrote down some of the cliff notes since I know you'll all not have complete time to listen to it. Also, just click on the link so they'll record more of them.

Greg Poole of BD Illustrated
SEC expansion happened for SECN $. Texas #1 candidate and A&M another one
Mizzouri made cut due to larger population over WVU

Chris
Mizzou picked due to 6M people vs 2M
Slive sold Mizzou over WVU w/ poor facilities and concourse couldn’t handle influx of SEC travelers
Schools that wanted WVU: Alabama, LSU, Auburn
Concourse issue now fixed with $60M in upgrades
B12 exists only because UT and OU want it to
ACC GOR may have a loophole: Void if ACCN doesn’t come to fruition due to Swofford surcomeventing Florida sunshine laws by meeting with FSU BOT members individually as to not hold an official BOT meeting.
B1G will not accept anyone that is not AAU, references Jim Delany
ACC 7 privates, only Duke is self sufficient
FSU, Clemson are concerned about SOS, FSU with revenue problems
What’s likely to happen, B1G needs to go south. 1. Diluted football product. 2. Exposure to recruiting grounds 3. Problem with their higher academic standards (special admissions)
Thinks B1G will try and get UVA, UNC, GT to come on board and then snap up Notre Dame
SEC would be happy to get into NC and VA markets and then B12 grabs the best of the rest
FSU/Clemson = 85% of ACC football viewership
Next wave of realignment is consolidation of Rights and collective bargaining
Thinks P4 with either ACC or B12
ACC could save revenue issues by contracting schools nog pulling their weight, WF, ‘cuse, BC
FSU approached B1G, which turned them down—lack of AAU status
WVU state has 1.8M people, average ten year TV rating w/ 2.1 = 2,100,000 viewers
B12 will not lose $ from expansion, can’t agree on anything
Only WVU and OU pushing for expansion, were afraid UT’s Patterson was going to take UT to the PAC. OU/WVU asked SEC about membership, SEC said they’d take them, but would not assume any risks at all.
Deregulation vote was designed to hammer the ACC and pardon the B12 led by the B1G
B12 CCG won’t happen soon. B12 thinks more harm can come of it than good. 2/3 in negative factor.
B12 thought Tom Osbourne and Barry Alvarez were big factors in lowering B12 candidates rankings in CFP. Will wait to see how critical 13th point is without those two on the CFP committee.
2017 of the ACC. FSU might not wait much longer.
Thinks B1G has targets on UNC, UVA, Duke, GT
NC State is only self-supporting ACC school. (privates didn’t summit data)

I know Poole pretty well, but all via the internet. He's a good guy. His site was once called Leather Helmet Blog and I liked it better then. But he has always placed too much stock in the Dude.

In the end if the Big 10 adds six it will most likely include Syracuse and possibly one of Pitt & B.C.. Then add Duke, UNC, and UVa and hold a spot for the lacrosse playing Irish and voila.

The SEC would take Clemson, F.S.U., Virginia Tech, & N.C. State. Georgia has accepted Tech in that scenario to keep their rival at home and the SEC would take them for academics. Tech would do it to keep minor sports more regional. Then add either Louisville if Kentucky says yes or Miami.

12 is all you need and I don't think the Big 10 gets Tech.
01-29-2016 09:27 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(01-29-2016 12:48 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  https://soundcloud.com/user-197203470/se...sion-round

The Dude did a podcast with Greg Poole of BD Illustrated. It's about an hour long so I went a head and wrote down some of the cliff notes since I know you'll all not have complete time to listen to it. Also, just click on the link so they'll record more of them.

Greg Poole of BD Illustrated
SEC expansion happened for SECN $. Texas #1 candidate and A&M another one
Mizzouri made cut due to larger population over WVU

Chris
Mizzou picked due to 6M people vs 2M
Slive sold Mizzou over WVU w/ poor facilities and concourse couldn’t handle influx of SEC travelers
Schools that wanted WVU: Alabama, LSU, Auburn
Concourse issue now fixed with $60M in upgrades
B12 exists only because UT and OU want it to
ACC GOR may have a loophole: Void if ACCN doesn’t come to fruition due to Swofford surcomeventing Florida sunshine laws by meeting with FSU BOT members individually as to not hold an official BOT meeting.
B1G will not accept anyone that is not AAU, references Jim Delany
ACC 7 privates, only Duke is self sufficient
FSU, Clemson are concerned about SOS, FSU with revenue problems
What’s likely to happen, B1G needs to go south. 1. Diluted football product. 2. Exposure to recruiting grounds 3. Problem with their higher academic standards (special admissions)
Thinks B1G will try and get UVA, UNC, GT to come on board and then snap up Notre Dame
SEC would be happy to get into NC and VA markets and then B12 grabs the best of the rest
FSU/Clemson = 85% of ACC football viewership
Next wave of realignment is consolidation of Rights and collective bargaining
Thinks P4 with either ACC or B12
ACC could save revenue issues by contracting schools nog pulling their weight, WF, ‘cuse, BC
FSU approached B1G, which turned them down—lack of AAU status
WVU state has 1.8M people, average ten year TV rating w/ 2.1 = 2,100,000 viewers
B12 will not lose $ from expansion, can’t agree on anything
Only WVU and OU pushing for expansion, were afraid UT’s Patterson was going to take UT to the PAC. OU/WVU asked SEC about membership, SEC said they’d take them, but would not assume any risks at all.
Deregulation vote was designed to hammer the ACC and pardon the B12 led by the B1G
B12 CCG won’t happen soon. B12 thinks more harm can come of it than good. 2/3 in negative factor.
B12 thought Tom Osbourne and Barry Alvarez were big factors in lowering B12 candidates rankings in CFP. Will wait to see how critical 13th point is without those two on the CFP committee.
2017 of the ACC. FSU might not wait much longer.
Thinks B1G has targets on UNC, UVA, Duke, GT
NC State is only self-supporting ACC school. (privates didn’t summit data)

Big thing with the Dude is you will always find him exaggerating WVU's value and influence. The key there is no one else is doing it. His bias is thick and he's more of a salesman than anything.
01-29-2016 05:29 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
Just curious, let's say UNC runs off to the B1G by themselves. Who would the SEC prefer to add at that point from North Carolina? NC State or Duke?

NC State fits the SEC profile a little more, but I'd prefer Duke. They'll add basketball, great academics and their football program used to be really good before they deemphasized the sport. Could you imagine Duke and UK being a conference game in the winter?
01-29-2016 05:46 PM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #50
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
https://soundcloud.com/user-197203470/th...pand-right

And another one:

Dude
OU & WVU threated to leave without a B12N
Texas has capitulated on the issue
Thinks one of ACC or B12 won't survive
Talks with FSU; FSU not interested until B12N is complete.
B12 would move to 14 with FSU, Clemson, Miami, Pitt
02-25-2016 09:28 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(01-29-2016 05:46 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Just curious, let's say UNC runs off to the B1G by themselves. Who would the SEC prefer to add at that point from North Carolina? NC State or Duke?

NC State fits the SEC profile a little more, but I'd prefer Duke. They'll add basketball, great academics and their football program used to be really good before they deemphasized the sport. Could you imagine Duke and UK being a conference game in the winter?

North Carolina isn't going anywhere without Duke and probably Virginia. So either we get those three of the Big 10 does in the event of an ACC collapse.
02-25-2016 10:51 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-25-2016 09:28 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  https://soundcloud.com/user-197203470/th...pand-right

And another one:

Dude
OU & WVU threated to leave without a B12N
Texas has capitulated on the issue
Thinks one of ACC or B12 won't survive
Talks with FSU; FSU not interested until B12N is complete.
B12 would move to 14 with FSU, Clemson, Miami, Pitt

I don't bite on anything the Dude says. I ask you do you really believe that the SEC would pass on Florida State and Clemson if the ACC was breaking apart? Do we really want anyone else holding the only two SEC like schools left in the Southeast who are not already our members? Perhaps if the SEC/Big 12 partnership is truly optimized we would could expand to 16 with just a Virginia and North Carolina school. But if the Big 10 took 2 and the Big 12 took 6 we would still be two short of dissolution. So it's not happening that way.

It takes 12 to dissolve the ACC. If the Big 10 takes 4, the SEC takes 4 and the Big 12 takes 6. You have everyone taken but Wake Forest.

Whoever gets UNC, Duke, and Virginia will likely have a different tag a long for #4. If the Big 10 gets them they might take Syracuse if N.D. still says no.

If the SEC takes them we might go ahead and take Miami to finally control South Florida, or Florida State as the best brand remaining.

I still don't think the ACC will implode. I think they will eventually add West Virginia, Connecticut, and Cincinnati along with Notre Dame to move to 18.

I'm leaning toward a Texahoma deal to see the SEC complete a new Western division.

I do think the PAC would consider Texas Tech and T.C.U. to get into the Lone Star state and Dallas.

Right now nothing happens until Oklahoma decides what it is they are to do.
02-25-2016 11:07 PM
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Post: #53
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
Could the Big 12 and ACC lose schools at the same time? The SEC and Big Ten are clearly the most powerful forces in college sports right now. Let's presume for a moment that the GORs are not the roadblock they have been presented to be.

Let me expand the thought a little though. Is there a way for the SEC and B1G to both expand to 18 or 20 or beyond while taking select schools from both the Big 12 and ACC? Perhaps then a leftover league emerges, probably centered around the ACC structure.

The Texahoma 4 is a grand slam. There's room for more from the ACC though. Let's say it's Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Louisville, NC State, and Virginia Tech.

- Texas, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas

- Texas A&M, LSU, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn

- Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Louisville, Virginia Tech, NC State

- Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Clemson

The LHN could be absorbed into the regular ESPN family and the format be changed.

Meanwhile, the B1G takes Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Syracuse, and Boston College. They have room for others, but I'm not sure any of the other options really add value at that point. Their basketball league is clearly superior. They dominate the Midwest and most of the Northeast.


A leftover league?

- BYU, Colorado State, New Mexico, Texas Tech, TCU, Houston, Kansas State, Iowa State

- Miami, UCF, Wake Forest, Cincinnati, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple, UConn

Notre Dame affiliates with this league.

Under this scenario, ESPN probably gets full ownership of the leftover league at a bargain basement price. The SEC would be more expensive, but the increased expenses of the B1G would be spit with FOX. Nothing changes with the PAC and there is no longer a need to overpay for the Big 12. No need to fork over money for either an ACC Network or a Big 12 Network.
02-26-2016 05:21 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #54
1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.
02-26-2016 05:15 PM
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Post: #55
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

A reasonable assessment. We wait for 2 things right now. First, does Oklahoma actually pull out and if so where are they headed? Second, does the Big 10 get their much ballyhooed big bump in pay, or is it a small bump due to the present model changeover that will take a decade to play out.

If Oklahoma does bolt (and it really doesn't matter where they head other than as a point of interest) then there will be another brief flury of realignment activity and at least 2 or 3 conferences will move to 16, or possibly more.

If Oklahoma does not bolt, and the Big 10 gets their contract without making additions I expect them to get a small bump. If that happens then realignment frenzy will chill until 2022 when the two year prior notification requirements to change conferences will necessitate disclosure of intentions to move prior to the GOR's expiring in the Big 12 and ACC within 2 to 3 years.

So no movement or statement of intentions to move by Oklahoma coupled with only a small raise in the Big 10's payout means we can quit talking about this for another 6 years.

If Oklahoma moves or declares intentions to move, or if the Big 10 gets a big bump then all bets are off and more school presidents will follow Boren's lead to explore the largest available resource stream and the best possible content valued conference they can find.
02-26-2016 06:09 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #56
1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-26-2016 06:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

A reasonable assessment. We wait for 2 things right now. First, does Oklahoma actually pull out and if so where are they headed? Second, does the Big 10 get their much ballyhooed big bump in pay, or is it a small bump due to the present model changeover that will take a decade to play out.

If Oklahoma does bolt (and it really doesn't matter where they head other than as a point of interest) then there will be another brief flury of realignment activity and at least 2 or 3 conferences will move to 16, or possibly more.

If Oklahoma does not bolt, and the Big 10 gets their contract without making additions I expect them to get a small bump. If that happens then realignment frenzy will chill until 2022 when the two year prior notification requirements to change conferences will necessitate disclosure of intentions to move prior to the GOR's expiring in the Big 12 and ACC within 2 to 3 years.

So no movement or statement of intentions to move by Oklahoma coupled with only a small raise in the Big 10's payout means we can quit talking about this for another 6 years.

If Oklahoma moves or declares intentions to move, or if the Big 10 gets a big bump then all bets are off and more school presidents will follow Boren's lead to explore the largest available resource stream and the best possible content valued conference they can find.

That's a reasonable assessment as well & I concur. Given the current situation of ESPN & Fox I think that the B1G has been offered only a small bump & that is why they are talking about selling their TV rights game by game. It is looking like the SEC made a wise play in signing a long term deal as I believe that the signs are indicating that the TV rights have about topped out. The conference networks & streaming may prove to be the media bread winners for the conferences in the near future.
02-26-2016 09:54 PM
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Post: #57
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-26-2016 09:54 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 06:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

A reasonable assessment. We wait for 2 things right now. First, does Oklahoma actually pull out and if so where are they headed? Second, does the Big 10 get their much ballyhooed big bump in pay, or is it a small bump due to the present model changeover that will take a decade to play out.

If Oklahoma does bolt (and it really doesn't matter where they head other than as a point of interest) then there will be another brief flury of realignment activity and at least 2 or 3 conferences will move to 16, or possibly more.

If Oklahoma does not bolt, and the Big 10 gets their contract without making additions I expect them to get a small bump. If that happens then realignment frenzy will chill until 2022 when the two year prior notification requirements to change conferences will necessitate disclosure of intentions to move prior to the GOR's expiring in the Big 12 and ACC within 2 to 3 years.

So no movement or statement of intentions to move by Oklahoma coupled with only a small raise in the Big 10's payout means we can quit talking about this for another 6 years.

If Oklahoma moves or declares intentions to move, or if the Big 10 gets a big bump then all bets are off and more school presidents will follow Boren's lead to explore the largest available resource stream and the best possible content valued conference they can find.

That's a reasonable assessment as well & I concur. Given the current situation of ESPN & Fox I think that the B1G has been offered only a small bump & that is why they are talking about selling their TV rights game by game. It is looking like the SEC made a wise play in signing a long term deal as I believe that the signs are indicating that the TV rights have about topped out. The conference networks & streaming may prove to be the media bread winners for the conferences in the near future.

And of course that means that taking a school for a market footprint will eventually become passe. But, taking schools that multiply content value will become all the rage. Maryland and Rutgers? Oops!
02-26-2016 09:57 PM
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Post: #58
RE: 1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

I have 2 concerns for the long term viability of the ACC.

1) If they don't get a network then certain schools are going to continue to fall behind financially. Is ESPN willing to make that investment? They seem to be delaying it. It would be cheaper to trade off some schools to the B1G and only have to pay for about half of those rights. FOX will own the other half and they would love to get some more Eastern content. I could see all parties being pleased with that.

2) The SEC would prefer some of the ACC schools as opposed to the Big 12, I think. They'd have to get a raise, but ESPN would also make more money off the content.

That and I'm just spitballing.
02-27-2016 12:18 AM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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Post: #59
1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-26-2016 09:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 09:54 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 06:09 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

A reasonable assessment. We wait for 2 things right now. First, does Oklahoma actually pull out and if so where are they headed? Second, does the Big 10 get their much ballyhooed big bump in pay, or is it a small bump due to the present model changeover that will take a decade to play out.

If Oklahoma does bolt (and it really doesn't matter where they head other than as a point of interest) then there will be another brief flury of realignment activity and at least 2 or 3 conferences will move to 16, or possibly more.

If Oklahoma does not bolt, and the Big 10 gets their contract without making additions I expect them to get a small bump. If that happens then realignment frenzy will chill until 2022 when the two year prior notification requirements to change conferences will necessitate disclosure of intentions to move prior to the GOR's expiring in the Big 12 and ACC within 2 to 3 years.

So no movement or statement of intentions to move by Oklahoma coupled with only a small raise in the Big 10's payout means we can quit talking about this for another 6 years.

If Oklahoma moves or declares intentions to move, or if the Big 10 gets a big bump then all bets are off and more school presidents will follow Boren's lead to explore the largest available resource stream and the best possible content valued conference they can find.

That's a reasonable assessment as well & I concur. Given the current situation of ESPN & Fox I think that the B1G has been offered only a small bump & that is why they are talking about selling their TV rights game by game. It is looking like the SEC made a wise play in signing a long term deal as I believe that the signs are indicating that the TV rights have about topped out. The conference networks & streaming may prove to be the media bread winners for the conferences in the near future.

And of course that means that taking a school for a market footprint will eventually become passe. But, taking schools that multiply content value will become all the rage. Maryland and Rutgers? Oops!

Gee, who saw that coming? Only everyone but the B1G.
02-27-2016 03:06 AM
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Post: #60
1/13/16 Boren: OU disadvantaged w/ 3 things
(02-27-2016 12:18 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(02-26-2016 05:15 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Why would ESPN & Fox dissolve the ACC now? As JR said it takes 12 ACC teams to dissolve the league. That means that 12 teams would have to be bumped up to the SEC/B1G level or to bump those conferences down & that isn't likely. To bump up 12 teams by $10 million each per year wouldn't make sense when the networks are supposed to be cutting their budgets.

I have 2 concerns for the long term viability of the ACC.

1) If they don't get a network then certain schools are going to continue to fall behind financially. Is ESPN willing to make that investment? They seem to be delaying it. It would be cheaper to trade off some schools to the B1G and only have to pay for about half of those rights. FOX will own the other half and they would love to get some more Eastern content. I could see all parties being pleased with that.

2) The SEC would prefer some of the ACC schools as opposed to the Big 12, I think. They'd have to get a raise, but ESPN would also make more money off the content.

That and I'm just spitballing.

Those are legitimate concerns. My point was simply that instead of moving 12 teams now & spend an additional $120 million per year that the networks will wait until after the GOR's & move the pieces that they want to keep & consolidate the rest.

Another possible move would be to combine the top brands of the B12 & the ACC into 1 conference & pay them Big 12 current money. This way the networks get to keep who they want & without paying the premium price. They give them a conference network which gives the schools additional revenue while also creating a new revenue stream for themselves. The SEC & B1G could still possibly take 2 each.

One possible scenario here would be NC, Duke & Virginia going to the SEC. This would possibly put Missouri & Kansas into the B1G. You would then have the best of the B12 & ACC come together.

Another scenario would be for 6 schools to jump from the ACC to the B12. (FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, Louisville & VT) The remainder of the ACC (NC, Duke, Virginia, NC State, WF, Pittsburgh, Syracuse & BC) would keep ND as a partial & add UCONN to give them 10 with 9 football schools. They then could add Georgetown & Villanova & have a great basketball conference. They may even consider St John's & Seton Hall as well. The ACC would become a tweener conference. Tobacco Road saves the ACC & still has an elite basketball conference that makes good money. ND keeps their football independence. IF NC State could escape from NC control then you could see the SEC &/or B1G pickup 2 each.
02-27-2016 03:49 AM
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