I found this very interesting.

Quote:earned a bachelor's degree in graphic design.... instead of working toward a master's degree to help him advance in his career...(he) enrolled in a precision machining program.... with an eye on landing a good-paying job in precision metal working, an industry starved for trained workers.

Many of them were in fields with bleak employment prospects....

Others have humanities degrees and couldn't find viable employment...

Entire article

There's a shortage of skilled labor. It will only get worse as high schools have started eliminating trade schools and apprenticeship programs from the curriculum and post-graduation options for students.

Yep. For an opening where I work, the hiring authority sees degrees like this:

Associates in Electrical Engineering > Masters in any liberal arts or humanities program

Associates in Information Systems > Masters in an liberal arts of humanities program

10 years relevant experience > Masters or PhD in anything non-technological

(01-07-2016 10:49 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Yep. For an opening where I work, the hiring authority sees degrees like this:

Associates in Electrical Engineering > Masters in any liberal arts or humanities program

Associates in Information Systems > Masters in an liberal arts of humanities program

10 years relevant experience > Masters or PhD in anything non-technological

If I hadn't been in a family business my MBA wouldn't have done squat for me. 12 years experience and and MBA were most helpful in my career change though.

Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point. Kids can always work on college courses part time to get a BS or Masters while they are earning good income and gaining practical experience that will make the second job pay all the better.

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point. Kids can always work on college courses part time to get a BS or Masters while they are earning good income and gaining practical experience that will make the second job pay all the better.

My middle child, a senior in high school, was talking to a distant family friend the other evening and they began talking about the classes that my daughter was currently taking in HS and her college plans. Anywho, my daughter is filling an elective with a pottery class and they were diving deeper into art, when the family friend mentioned, that many colleges have great art programs that my daughter might be interested in pursuing. My daughter quickly responded..."My dad won't pay for me to get that degree."

I smiled and walked away.

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point. Kids can always work on college courses part time to get a BS or Masters while they are earning good income and gaining practical experience that will make the second job pay all the better.

This precisely what I did although university was never my original intent. AAS in Surveying tech. Worked my way through ECU and will always have an in-demand fall back option.

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My wife has a bachelors and hates her job and is pretty much maxed out on pay. She has been looking into community college training for a new field.

(01-07-2016 11:21 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point. Kids can always work on college courses part time to get a BS or Masters while they are earning good income and gaining practical experience that will make the second job pay all the better.

My middle child, a senior in high school, was talking to a distant family friend the other evening and they began talking about the classes that my daughter was currently taking in HS and her college plans. Anywho, my daughter is filling an elective with a pottery class and they were diving deeper into art, when the family friend mentioned, that many colleges have great art programs that my daughter might be interested in pursuing. My daughter quickly responded..."My dad won't pay for me to get that degree."

I smiled and walked away.

Good Parenting!

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point.

Anybody with kids in high school should explore these tracks, yes. But there is still value in bachelors degrees in the right fields from the right schools in the right areas.

(01-07-2016 11:47 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-07-2016 11:16 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Anybody with kids in high school should be seriously steering them towards trade work or associates degrees at this point.

Anybody with kids in high school should explore these tracks, yes. But there is still value in bachelors degrees in the right fields from the right schools in the right areas.

Of course there is. I do think parents have a new responsibility now that didn't exist close to 20 years when the mantra was "You've got to have a four year degree to get a good paying job." Parents really need to have a serious discussion with their kids in high school to determine the type of work they want to do and what their expectations for income and quality of life really are. Many liberal arts degrees are essentially useless, and even some technology degrees are now losing value as 20 years worth of kids have flooded the job market with potential employees.

(01-07-2016 10:41 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I found this very interesting.

Quote:earned a bachelor's degree in graphic design.... instead of working toward a master's degree to help him advance in his career...(he) enrolled in a precision machining program.... with an eye on landing a good-paying job in precision metal working, an industry starved for trained workers.

Many of them were in fields with bleak employment prospects....

Others have humanities degrees and couldn't find viable employment...

Entire article

a few yrs ago, I had a tryst with a chick-a-dee where that was her major....

like I said, it was a tryst....

people are completely clueless how to survive.....

that's what this cuntry has developed......I have zero sympathy and have made certain the seeds I planted in my daughter views it in the same vein....

you can't fix it after the process of knee jerking once it takes over....

costa, here I come.....I want hedonist trysts as the norm.....

When I was in HS one of my teachers was pushing for us to get into service careers. It was common knowledge in those days that most white people were a "little" racist and that's why she would tell us that. But perhaps she was looking at a crystal ball and was looking at the future.

I tell my grandkids to think about service jobs like plumbing, mechanics of any sort, etc. but I doubt they relish getting their "wittle" hands dirty.

I won't dump on humanities or other "impractical" pursuits. If you go into the effort with a plan, you can do well. If you want to just go to school and get a degree, you're not going to get much. We tend to think of life as linear; this path takes you this way and this goes that. A person with an English degree, who did an internship with a glass manufacturer, can get a permanent job with that company along with the guy with a welding degree and probably end up higher on the pole at the end of the day.

It depends on the type of child. A good student that is around the top 10% (or better) of the class with a 3.6-3.8+ and a decent major of interest most certainly belongs in a university setting. Sometimes, those types of kids are the ones that would do badly in a trade career.

(01-07-2016 09:23 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  It depends on the type of child. A good student that is around the top 10% (or better) of the class with a 3.6-3.8+ and a decent major of interest most certainly belongs in a university setting. Sometimes, those types of kids are the ones that would do badly in a trade career.

I think the type of person you described definitely deserves the choice, but that doesn't necessarily belong in a university setting or even need to be there. I was in the top 2% from kindergarten through high school and though I did excellent in college, I'm much happier with "blue collar" work. Then you have the kids that skate through high school and have average grades but succeed wildly in business.

Most of them are "going" not "returning"... to where they should have started.