(01-11-2016 02:40 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 11:00 PM)GoBigRed26 Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 01:06 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 12:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  That is an absolutely ridiculous statement. Y'all are acting as if they are some sort of irresistable Incredible Hulk. South Dakota and Montana beat them for crying out loud.

It is ridiculous when you think about it in terms of the chances of winning, but may not be ridiculous when you also consider the consequences of losing. I think that if NDSU played all FBS teams, 1-128, they'd lose a lot but may end up winning a majority. Most people who don't follow college football pretty closely probably don't see much difference in losing to NDSU and losing to Liberty. And no one wants to lose to an FCS school. I know; it sucks.

Well their last 5 games (since 2010) against FBS were Iowa St, Kansas, Kanss St, Minnesota, and Colorado St. They won every single game. None of us can say that. Hell, I don't know if any of us has that many P5 wins in the past 30 years or maybe even ever.

It's worth noting that all those teams stink outside of Kansas State.

With the exception of Kansas, the rest of those teams would likely finish top 3 in the SBC year in and year out. It's not like the SBC is full of great teams. IF FCS teams can transition run over the existing members that says something.

Not all transition teams are equal. The SBC took two of the top five FCS programs over the last 30 years.

NDSU would likely do very well in the FBS as well, but your location is terrible, and trust me App fans know about the perception of location issues. I'd swap out our deal with Idaho for NDSU for four years, renewable thereafter.

NDSU is capable of beating any team in FBS on any given day.

But the top 3 teams of any FBS league when healthy are, most of the time, going to come out on top of that one.

Someone asked would you replace Idaho with NMSU. I would if NDSU was coming as a full member.


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These are the tiers of DI football IMO and where P5, G5, and FCS teams fit into them..

1. 3-5 P5 teams that are usually a cut above everyone else.

2. The top half of the P5 that isn't in tier 1. Anywhere between 0 and 3 or 4 G5 teams on a given year. Possibly Extraordinary FCS teams like 1996 Marshall and 2013 NDSU.

3. The Lesser P5 teams, top 20 or so G5 not in tier 2, a few FCS teams (this is the key tier, see below).

4. Mediocre G5s, top FCS teams not in tier 3, the typical P5 cellar dwellers

5. Mediocre full-scholarship FCS teams, typical G5 bottom feeders

6. Leagues like the MEAC, SWAC, most Ivy and Patriot League teams, and FCS leagues like the NEC and PFL that just want to call themselves DI without actually funding real DI football teams.

IMO, it's tier 3 where the FCS has lost representation over the years. 10 years ago there were 3-6 teams that fit in this tier each year. For the past several years NDSU has been the only team that I could really put in there. NDSU's 2011-2013 are without a doubt in that tier, their 2014 and late-season 2015 teams are in it, but not by far.

(01-11-2016 12:01 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  These are the tiers of DI football IMO and where P5, G5, and FCS teams fit into them..

1. 3-5 P5 teams that are usually a cut above everyone else.

2. The top half of the P5 that isn't in tier 1. Anywhere between 0 and 3 or 4 G5 teams on a given year. Possibly Extraordinary FCS teams like 1996 Marshall and 2013 NDSU.

3. The Lesser P5 teams, top 20 or so G5 not in tier 2, a few FCS teams (this is the key tier, see below).

4. Mediocre G5s, top FCS teams not in tier 3, the typical P5 cellar dwellers

5. Mediocre full-scholarship FCS teams, typical G5 bottom feeders

6. Leagues like the MEAC, SWAC, most Ivy and Patriot League teams, and FCS leagues like the NEC and PFL that just want to call themselves DI without actually funding real DI football teams.

IMO, it's tier 3 where the FCS has lost representation over the years. 10 years ago there were 3-6 teams that fit in this tier each year. For the past several years NDSU has been the only team that I could really put in there. NDSU's 2011-2013 are without a doubt in that tier, their 2014 and late-season 2015 teams are in it, but not by far.

I'd jay Jacksonville State belongs in Tier 3 this year. They shoulda beat Auburn.

(01-11-2016 10:31 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 09:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The entire NDSU squad was probably hungover from partying the night before in Fargo when they played USD. They had a lot of new defensive people when they opened at Montana.

It's worth noting that in both losses this year, QB Wentz was limited due to injury part way through the game. In both instances he stayed in the game but the offense became ineffective. While those loses were bad they are not a true indicator of how good NDSU is.

I fully believe that NDSU would be a top 3 team in the SBC. Next year i expect them to go to Iowa and be VERY competitive. May not win but it will be close.

NDSU is FBS caliber but there is a difference in playing no FBS, 9 FCS, DIV II sometimes. You probably would be consistently top three in of most G5 outside of the AAC probably. The notion you could hang with the current elite P5 like some are saying is crazy though. Upsets happen but Alabama or Clemson beat any FCS 99.99999999999% of the time.

(01-11-2016 10:31 AM)NDSUguy Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 09:57 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The entire NDSU squad was probably hungover from partying the night before in Fargo when they played USD. They had a lot of new defensive people when they opened at Montana.

It's worth noting that in both losses this year, QB Wentz was limited due to injury part way through the game. In both instances he stayed in the game but the offense became ineffective. While those loses were bad they are not a true indicator of how good NDSU is.

I fully believe that NDSU would be a top 3 team in the SBC. Next year i expect them to go to Iowa and be VERY competitive. May not win but it will be close.

That sounds very much like App in 2007 when Armanti Edwards was injured but trying to play against Wofford and Georgia Southern. Both of those were games where he was returning from injury. In the Wofford game, he was re-injured and played less than half. Against GS, he played but was not at full strength. Disappointing losses (for both App in 2007 and NDSU this year) but part of the game. Congratulations on another great year and National Championship!

NDSU is a strong team...no doubt about that. As others have pointed out, they "could" beat any team in the SBC on any given day, but I definitely do not believe they would be favored over the top 3 from 2015. If they played an FBS schedule, depth would be a big factor. App stumbled a bit at the end of the season because of injuries and lack of depth and we have been able to add scholarships...but still have FCS recruited players in the mix.

I actually hated that App had those "down" years at the end of our FCS run because I would have loved to meet NDSU in the playoffs when we were at the top of our game.

If NDSU played a full Sun Belt slate, I'd put them down for somewhere between 3-5 and 5-3 in conference play. I think GS and App have both proven that a lack of depth/scholarships can be overcome if an FCS team brings some elite talent (for that level) into the mix.

My biggest knock on what NDSU could do stems more from their style of play. Assuming some teams with departing QBs can replace them, the Sun Belt can chuck it around a good bit and I don't think NDSU can cover that many good receivers. App and GS got around that issue, but App has built up with a good defense while GS can slow teams down a bit before out scoring them with its unique offense.

If NDSU can't hang with decent QBs and 2-3 WRs on a different level than anything in the MVFC, I don't see where their straight-ahead power running would be enough to make them consistent winners.

App won conference games this season by being steady and consistent with threats of huge plays on offense with a really good secondary and pass rush thrown in. Georgia Southern continued to run away from teams early and then capitalize defensively whenever teams got antsy and tried to do too much.

I respect the hell out of NDSU, but their game plan would lend them to a worse outcome in the sun belt than a man-to-man talent comparison would.

The Big Ten has much better athletes than the Sun Belt, but I'd bet that (all current rosters and playing styles considered) NDSU would fare much better duking it out against Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. than trying to keep pace with stAte, App, GS and the like.

(01-11-2016 08:12 PM)CC Eagle Wrote:  If NDSU played a full Sun Belt slate, I'd put them down for somewhere between 3-5 and 5-3 in conference play. I think GS and App have both proven that a lack of depth/scholarships can be overcome if an FCS team brings some elite talent (for that level) into the mix.

My biggest knock on what NDSU could do stems more from their style of play. Assuming some teams with departing QBs can replace them, the Sun Belt can chuck it around a good bit and I don't think NDSU can cover that many good receivers. App and GS got around that issue, but App has built up with a good defense while GS can slow teams down a bit before out scoring them with its unique offense.

If NDSU can't hang with decent QBs and 2-3 WRs on a different level than anything in the MVFC, I don't see where their straight-ahead power running would be enough to make them consistent winners.

App won conference games this season by being steady and consistent with threats of huge plays on offense with a really good secondary and pass rush thrown in. Georgia Southern continued to run away from teams early and then capitalize defensively whenever teams got antsy and tried to do too much.

I respect the hell out of NDSU, but their game plan would lend them to a worse outcome in the sun belt than a man-to-man talent comparison would.

The Big Ten has much better athletes than the Sun Belt, but I'd bet that (all current rosters and playing styles considered) NDSU would fare much better duking it out against Purdue, Indiana, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. than trying to keep pace with stAte, App, GS and the like.

NDSU is a lot like a MAC team. App and GS had an absolute ton of athletes when they came in. They signed speed, and were able to use it to overcome size and depth issues. I don't see a ton of athletes at NDSU, rather I see more size and ability.

I know they've got a laundry list of P5 victims, but outside of the 2013 NDSU team which beat a pretty darn good Kansas State team, and then blew away basically everyone else by 20 plus points, I'm not sure I see major victims. Kansas, Iowa State, and Minnesota are P5 programs, but none of them contain what one would consider major athletes. One would hope that the top of the SBC could have beaten Kansas and Minnesota those years. We never get to play those teams, so you don't see proof, but that's a huge advantage NDSU has. As an FCS team, they can basically take any guarantee they want, because they have little else to offer. Arkansas State would never be able to play Kansas, because they wouldn't be able to pay us the 1.5 million required guarantee, and there is no chance they come here.