(08-26-2015 04:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:04 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  There are parent conferences all year, both during and after school. Each one of these will take between 30 minutes and forever.

In my entire time in school, through 12 years with my oldest and now 9+ years with my youngest I have never had an assistant principal or principal present at any one on one parent conference. I have seen them sitting in the background at large meetings, but they have never spoken to the crowd or answered questions. The principal or the teacher who was the department head of the subject being discussed handled that.

Quote:There are buses, bus drivers, and bus riders that have to be attended to.

In our school district buses and bus drivers were centrally managed by the district, not the individual school. If you call the school with a bus problem you are instructed to contact the school district transportation office.

Quote:There is the athletic program at the school. An administrator will be expected to attend and trouble shoot at both home and away games.

In my high school athletic playing career and in my subsequent coaching career I have never seen an administrator attend an away game in any official capacity. Admins would attend home football and basketball games in official capacity because of the importance, and they attend baseball games at the school my sons attend because baseball is bigger than basketball here, but any trouble shooting at road games fell to the head coach and those of us on his/her staff.

This is extremely surprising.

In every school that I have ever worked at, the VP or P has been present at every single conference I ever had with a parent.

An administrator has been present at every single sporting event where our school was associated.

As the coach, I was personally responsible for ordering buses for sporting events but the VP was responsible for ordering buses for any students attending their school that required or requested them.

(08-26-2015 04:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  In every school that I have ever worked at, the VP or P has been present at every single conference I ever had with a parent.

As in "its a conference night" and the VP is there? or as in "sits in at conferences"

It's understandable to be there at conference night but the other is foolish..

Quote:An administrator has been present at every single sporting event where our school was associated.

Lets do the math on that. Lets assume 8 spring, fall, and summer sports. thats 24 sporting teams. If each team averages 10 events that's 240 events. If each even averages 3 hours that would be 750 hours or one half of an FTE.

We have a word for that in the private sector... A waste of resources..

I could understand home openers, home coming, and maybe playoff/championships.

(08-26-2015 04:31 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-26-2015 04:17 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  In every school that I have ever worked at, the VP or P has been present at every single conference I ever had with a parent.

As in "its a conference night" and the VP is there? or as in "sits in at conferences"

It's understandable to be there at conference night but the other is foolish..

Quote:An administrator has been present at every single sporting event where our school was associated.

Lets do the math on that. Lets assume 8 spring, fall, and summer sports. thats 24 sporting teams. If each team averages 10 events that's 240 events. If each even averages 3 hours that would be 750 hours or one half of an FTE.

We have a word for that in the private sector... A waste of resources..

I could understand home openers, home coming, and maybe playoff/championships.

Sounds to me like they were creating work to justify the existing positions and possibly the need for additional positions.

"Our administrators worked X number of hours outside of school last year. We need Y number of additional administrators to lessen the work load."

Thing is I did 3 sports, band, debate, and all other kids of things. Saw an administrator a hand full of times.

(08-26-2015 04:53 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  Thing is I did 3 sports, band, debate, and all other kids of things. Saw an administrator a hand full of times.

I'm not saying there isn't administrative bloat, but your experience doesn't jive with mine less than a decade ago. At all home games there was always an admin present (split between different games if sports like basketball and soccer had games on the same night) to handle any significant issues that occurred (for example, people could be suspended from school depending on the severity of the foul). I don't know if my high school was different, but since I couldn't recognize the VPs or Principals at other schools, I don't know for sure if other schools had the same policy.

And I think 10 home games a year per team is high. Football, track, and golf barely have 10 games/meets/matches a year, let alone home games. Sports like baseball, basketball, or soccer may have 10 home games per year though.

At events held at neutral, non-school locations (for me those events were in sports, newspaper conferences, and a few other academic competitions) administrators from my school definitely weren't present, as the event organizers handled most of, if not all of the logistics.

Outside of sports/extracurriculars our administrators were very involved in day to day activities and the students knew who they all were. Whether they were all needed (I forget all of their roles, there was an academic one, facilities, discipline, and one more) is a question that should be posed.

Regarding administrators at parent conferences, you might want to google IEP meeting.

Regarding sporting events, at our middle school. In the fall we have soccer and volleyball on Mondays and Wednesdays and Football on Thursday. There is an administrator circulating between the soccer and volleyball game sites and there is one at the football games. This would be both home and away. It is also of course after normal school hours, but an expected part of the the job. The same would hold true for winter and spring sports. There would also be one of the three at any choral program, play, or band concert as well.

As for standardized testing there has to be a administrator coordinating each of these sessions. Of course the teachers give the tests, but you act like they just hand us some papers and say give them the test. Testing is a huge process. It has to be done by the book and with transparency. If there are 40 homerooms expect there to be 60-70 testing sites. Every site has to have a test administrator and a proctor in the room. Try finding 70 people in the community willing to pace in a classroom (you can't sit down, read a book or look at your phone) for three to four hours a day for three straight week days in the spring. And that of course is just one test in the spring. We also have to give several other tests throughout the year with varied but similar requirements.

Regarding teacher evaluations you simply disregard the time required in do them correctly. There are also windows of time when these observations are to be done. Two assistant principals splitting 320 observations will require huge amounts of time. Doing two a day will take the better part of a day and require 80 days.

Buses take a significant amount of time. Routes, breakdowns, discipline issues, driver absence, are all addressed by an assistant principal.

I'm not an administrator but working with them I'm not blind to the fact that it is a demanding job and one assistant principal per 400 to 500 is certainly reasonable.

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 02:05 PM)fsquid Wrote:  I'm still unsure why my child's school of 947 needs 2 vice principals.

Wow! Just think that one through a little bit.

It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

(08-27-2015 07:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 02:05 PM)fsquid Wrote:  I'm still unsure why my child's school of 947 needs 2 vice principals.

Wow! Just think that one through a little bit.

It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

Everybody that doesn't have anything to do with the profession is an expert. Typical internet discussion.

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 07:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Wow! Just think that one through a little bit.

It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

Everybody that doesn't have anything to do with the profession is an expert. Typical internet discussion.

Kinda like you preaching about healthcare no?

(08-27-2015 04:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 07:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

Everybody that doesn't have anything to do with the profession is an expert. Typical internet discussion.

Kinda like you preaching about healthcare no?

absolutely

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 07:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:00 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  Wow! Just think that one through a little bit.

It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

Everybody that doesn't have anything to do with the profession is an expert. Typical internet discussion.

Well, since I'm not somebody who doesn't have anything to do with the profession, I guess that means I'm not an expert.

(08-27-2015 08:34 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:53 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 07:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 09:11 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2015 08:39 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  It's a legit question. My HS of 1,400 only needed on vice principle.

My son's school of 1700 has a Principal, an "Academic Dean of Innovation", Four Assistant Principals, a Director of Student Life, and a Director of Counseling & Advisement.

Cut the vice principals back to 2 or3. The counseling position is probably justifiable. They should all be innovators, so no idea why they need someone just to innovate. And Director of Student Life sounds like someone to administer all the BS social engineering programs that have nothing to do with education, so get rid of those programs and that position. That cuts the number from 7 to 3 or 4.

Everybody that doesn't have anything to do with the profession is an expert. Typical internet discussion.

Well, since I'm not somebody who doesn't have anything to do with the profession, I guess that means I'm not an expert.

Your response doesn't make any sense. Are you in education? If so in what capacity?