Again, how can this legally apply to the two-year state colleges and not the four-year ones? In other words, freshmen and sophomores at the JC two-year NET campus, for example (when they get it open), taking core college courses toward an eventual four-year degree have them covered while up the street at ETSU, freshmen and sophomores have to anti up and pay? Is that right? Any lawyers in the room?



http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/article/...king-class

(07-02-2015 10:48 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Again, how can this legally apply to the two-year state colleges and not the four-year ones? In other words, freshmen and sophomores at the JC two-year NET campus, for example (when they get it open), taking core college courses toward an eventual four-year degree have them covered while up the street at ETSU, freshmen and sophomores have to anti up and pay? Is that right? Any lawyers in the room?



http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/article/...king-class

I think it's also kinda crappy, but I do see the logic. The Community Colleges offer a degree at the end of the two years paid by the state. The 4 year schools don't guarantee that a student will eventually graduate later after paying for the first two years. This way they can promote how many people in TN have "college degrees".

Also, keep in mind that the TN promise is a last dollar scholarship. It only funds anything after all other sources are exhausted. For many middle class or lower income students, between Pell Grants, Lottery Scholarships and such, they won't need much funding from TN Promise. The cost of the 4 year schools is higher, so TN would be out of pocket a lot more for the 4 year school students.

There are few reasons a student that made decent enough grades this past year in a TN HS shouldn't go on to higher education. Besides the degrees at the Community Colleges, the Tech Centers like out in Elizabethton also qualify for TN Promise. Even if a student want a more traditional degree, they could get a work focused one there.

Anyone in a tough bind can complete gen ed at CC, get an associate's, and then complete rest of four year at ETSU (or school of choice). It will benefit everyone, and quite frankly, the four year state schools already use every tactic available to up enrollment because they need the marginal revenue. It's not healthy to keep diminishing service and product quality (costs, or costs in effect by pumping out classes more cheaply) in order to sell more. ETSU accepts students with < 20 ACT! Those students need to be doing their remedial work at CC where cost is fair, and ETSU and such would see graduation rates go up magically.

Reality is, the 4-year degree has become today's high school standard, but the state doesn't want to pay for inflated education. I fully support the TN Promise as a cost-conscious intervention on behalf of the students.

(07-02-2015 10:48 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  Again, how can this legally apply to the two-year state colleges and not the four-year ones? In other words, freshmen and sophomores at the JC two-year NET campus, for example (when they get it open), taking core college courses toward an eventual four-year degree have them covered while up the street at ETSU, freshmen and sophomores have to anti up and pay? Is that right? Any lawyers in the room?



http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/article/...king-class

It does apply to any 4 year schools that award associate degrees. For example, Austin Peay still awards associate degrees (I believe associated with their partnership with their local military base). Carson Newman awards associate degrees, etc.

1. TN Achieves / TN Promise ain't that much money. I am a mentor in the program and the students have to do a ton of stuff to get the money. And once I saw the final numbers, I was a little sad for them.

2. Hope scholarship has been free for everyone for a long, long time. These scholarships are nothing new. They have also lowered the standard for the hope twice to get more students in. Promise just lowers the standards further and adds in certificate programs.

3. People are talking about the promise program as something ginormous. Yes, there's going to be an upswing, but it is not going to be a complete mass exodus of folks leaving 4 year schools and going to community college schools. Like someone above said, the money applies to any certificate or associates program.

Despite what the NES president is feeding the media, it's not that big of a deal. Yes, We'll likely set records. But we passed 6,000 students few semesters back. And as always the pendulum will swing back. I have spent several days this summer already working with the promise students. Most are great. But there is a significant number who will not survive college and are only coming because it is free. Single digit ACT scores. I kid you not.

So, for what it's worth I think it's a nifty program, and I hope some student are helped. But no need to start asking if there are lawyers present.

Right now about 23,000 of the 31,000 students who have signed up for the Promise have not completed the 8 hours of community service required.
They have until Aug 1st. I wonder how many of them will be to lazy to complete?

(07-03-2015 07:38 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Right now about 23,000 of the 31,000 students who have signed up for the Promise have not completed the 8 hours of community service required.
They have until Aug 1st. I wonder how many of them will be to lazy to complete?

My ol granpappy used to say, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".

Yes. And the community service is only one of the 13 steps necessary to get the money. If any of the steps are not complete, the student is instantly removed from the program. No grace. I like the accountability, but it is another reason why this program is not as huge as the media and state want us to think. I LIKE the program, but it's received a disproportionate level of buzz.

(07-03-2015 07:38 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Right now about 23,000 of the 31,000 students who have signed up for the Promise have not completed the 8 hours of community service required.

They have until Aug 1st. I wonder how many of them will be to lazy to complete?

My son graduated this year. We signed him up for the Promise program as a last resort backup plan in case other options didn't work out. The funding for the other schools worked out well enough, so he won't be doing the program. We are still getting emails about volunteer hours to complete. I'm willing to bet that other students counted in those numbers did what we did with it being the backup plan.

Also, volunteer hours are required for graduation. My son said that the week prior to, there were student that needed 30+ hours still. This is a big time group of procrastinators.

(07-03-2015 09:39 AM)queenladybug817 Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 07:38 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Right now about 23,000 of the 31,000 students who have signed up for the Promise have not completed the 8 hours of community service required.

They have until Aug 1st. I wonder how many of them will be to lazy to complete?

My son graduated this year. We signed him up for the Promise program as a last resort backup plan in case other options didn't work out. The funding for the other schools worked out well enough, so he won't be doing the program. We are still getting emails about volunteer hours to complete. I'm willing to bet that other students counted in those numbers did what we did with it being the backup plan.

Also, volunteer hours are required for graduation. My son said that the week prior to, there were student that needed 30+ hours still. This is a big time group of procrastinators.

It is 8 hours.. Geez I was a lazy high school kid... and college and.. anyway even I could manage to squeeze in 8 hours. I know Northeast State is really pushing getting the hours in with a program called Community Service Blast, they have partnered with several local charities to get kids chances, Hell you can volunteer for Fun Fest for 1 day and make it. I think the State Parks are holding events on the 18th to give kids a chance to get the hours in.

(07-03-2015 01:43 PM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 09:39 AM)queenladybug817 Wrote:  

(07-03-2015 07:38 AM)RodShaw2 Wrote:  Right now about 23,000 of the 31,000 students who have signed up for the Promise have not completed the 8 hours of community service required.

They have until Aug 1st. I wonder how many of them will be to lazy to complete?

My son graduated this year. We signed him up for the Promise program as a last resort backup plan in case other options didn't work out. The funding for the other schools worked out well enough, so he won't be doing the program. We are still getting emails about volunteer hours to complete. I'm willing to bet that other students counted in those numbers did what we did with it being the backup plan.

Also, volunteer hours are required for graduation. My son said that the week prior to, there were student that needed 30+ hours still. This is a big time group of procrastinators.

It is 8 hours.. Geez I was a lazy high school kid... and college and.. anyway even I could manage to squeeze in 8 hours. I know Northeast State is really pushing getting the hours in with a program called Community Service Blast, they have partnered with several local charities to get kids chances, Hell you can volunteer for Fun Fest for 1 day and make it. I think the State Parks are holding events on the 18th to give kids a chance to get the hours in.

They always have to start rigging these sort of things to try to get people qualified. If you ain't motivated enough to get off your sorry butt (sure exceptions are granted to those legitimately unable to do this) and go get this done, then you ain't gonna benefit from the promise because you'll likely not attend class either. Likely those working and paying their own way through a four-year state college are not real impressed with these folks -- plus wondering if the state is spending the taxes they're paying, in addition to their tuition and fees, in a wise manner.

"It's easier to teach a child than fix a man." And regardless of chronological age these are still children in the big picture of life. I would believe that a significant portion of those taking advantage of this program would not have any secondary education or trade development otherwise. Get them in school. Some will learn a trade, become more employable - and better employees - and have some degree of success in life. Others will get a degree, go on to a 4 yr school and who knows what is possible for them after that. And yes some will fail. That happens in every facet of life. It is still better to gain the successes. The state is better for it and here's hoping this program becomes a national model.

(07-05-2015 09:20 AM)Just Buc Wrote:  "It's easier to teach a child than fix a man." And regardless of chronological age these are still children in the big picture of life. I would believe that a significant portion of those taking advantage of this program would not have any secondary education or trade development otherwise. Get them in school. Some will learn a trade, become more employable - and better employees - and have some degree of success in life. Others will get a degree, go on to a 4 yr school and who knows what is possible for them after that. And yes some will fail. That happens in every facet of life. It is still better to gain the successes. The state is better for it and here's hoping this program becomes a national model.

Will be interesting to see if the state maintains accurate records and statistics on this program and actually shares the information, in a coherent truthful way, with the taxpayers over the coming years. Does this program also cover high school drop-outs who attend a state tech school to get their GED diploma?

No. Promise is only for high school grads.

We have plenty of other programs where taxpayers cover GEDs.