It is good to dialogue and debate on this issue. The most wise move would be a member with any institution while still FCS. If we could pick and choose who we exclusively wanted to be associated that would be different. It is not the case. In reading this thread it seems that one could replace BYU with LU and the thread would be one of many appearing on the SBC board about LU.

And it seems most wise to keep "the mission" personal. Bringing scripture, religion and spirituality into a sports bbs is inappropriate. Yes LU is different than most other schools. But the sports mission is to achieve FBS so all athletic efforts and actions should be directed to that goal. If one wants to speak and share their personal beliefs then it's most appropriate elsewhere.

As LU becomes FBS, interest and attention will increase. As the fan base grows so will grow the diversity of the fans. For LU to generate fan interest beyond it's school borders, more local fans will be attracted as high profile teams trickle into to Williams Stadium. Fans, not in any way affiliated with the school, or "the mission" will come and attend. A key to continued success will be how to keep their interest and support.

If we found ourselves in a conference with BYU, I'd tolerate it but I wouldn't feel good about it. It would take a miracle for me to want to decline an invitation to an FBS conference, and an even bigger miracle if we are FCS when we receive that invite. I think of it like this: If BYU was hosting a fundraiser for their school and missions on campus and asked for Liberty to help them raise money and get national attention, would we do that? I wouldn't and I think being in a conference with them (or anyone else) is exactly that. It would be like Liberty endorsing BYU and saying that Liberty supports them, at least in my mind. Everyone else may have a different view and that's fine; I'm not saying I'm right and opposing views are wrong, I think it is a big grey area and it's hard for me and probably others.

(07-15-2015 07:50 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  If we found ourselves in a conference with BYU, I'd tolerate it but I wouldn't feel good about it. It would take a miracle for me to want to decline an invitation to an FBS conference, and an even bigger miracle if we are FCS when we receive that invite. I think of it like this: If BYU was hosting a fundraiser for their school and missions on campus and asked for Liberty to help them raise money and get national attention, would we do that? I wouldn't and I think being in a conference with them (or anyone else) is exactly that. It would be like Liberty endorsing BYU and saying that Liberty supports them, at least in my mind. Everyone else may have a different view and that's fine; I'm not saying I'm right and opposing views are wrong, I think it is a big grey area and it's hard for me and probably others.

I hope it does not take a miracle for LU to receive an FBS bid. It seem very unlikely that BYU would ask LU, or any other school with a religious affiliation, to help them raise money for whatever reason. If that ever happened, I would hope the athletic leaders would be wise and say no. I've not experienced the scenario your present with one school asking another to endorse a project along a religious theme or for national attention.

It seems wisest for LU to compete on the field as well as they can against the very best competition that is available to the level that LU is able to achieve. Let's be friendly on-field rivals without endorsements or joint ventures that bring unwarranted attention. That appears to be one of the major appeals for ND and for schools competing against them. The other schools really want to beat them on the field and nothing really expands beyond it. The only exception was the UofM series where it was the Catholics vs. the Convicts. Great on field rivalry.

(07-15-2015 07:41 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  And it seems most wise to keep "the mission" personal. Bringing scripture, religion and spirituality into a sports bbs is inappropriate. Yes LU is different than most other schools. But the sports mission is to achieve FBS so all athletic efforts and actions should be directed to that goal. If one wants to speak and share their personal beliefs then it's most appropriate elsewhere.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. The "mission" should not be kept personal in my opinion. Bringing scripture, religion and spirituality into sports is very appropriate. Christianity is who one is. It is not something to turn on and turn off for the convenience of others. I think their are different approaches of openly living the "mission" or message, subtle and overt. But I will never back away from my faith just because it makes someone else uncomfortable. It is the very air that I breath. Just my two cents worth.

(07-17-2015 10:14 PM)army56mike Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 07:41 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  And it seems most wise to keep "the mission" personal. Bringing scripture, religion and spirituality into a sports bbs is inappropriate. Yes LU is different than most other schools. But the sports mission is to achieve FBS so all athletic efforts and actions should be directed to that goal. If one wants to speak and share their personal beliefs then it's most appropriate elsewhere.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. The "mission" should not be kept personal in my opinion. Bringing scripture, religion and spirituality into sports is very appropriate. Christianity is who one is. It is not something to turn on and turn off for the convenience of others. I think their are different approaches of openly living the "mission" or message, subtle and overt. But I will never back away from my faith just because it makes someone else uncomfortable. It is the very air that I breath. Just my two cents worth.

AM, I appreciate the passion in which you express your personal beliefs. However, they are personal. If you choose to share them here it's your choice. I know this is a topic that discussions will never have anyone change their mind. Nor should it be the intent of any discussion on this board to have anyone accept or deny their feelings or beliefs. The bigger question is what is the best. One may feel it is their calling, inspiration or mission to express their personal religious beliefs on a sports bbs. I don't.

It seems to me to be going beyond the realm of why we are here. Everyone knows that LU is a religious school, that students have a high standard to meet, and that even the slogan/brand of LU is religious based.

To have a sports bbs be about sports free helps develop the athletic program and advance the awareness of the school. If dialogue here was punctuated with biblical references that would be unwise.

If one is compelled to express their beliefs in a sports bbs there is a bigger issue for that poster rather than sports. Sports is why I am here. Sports is why most everyone on all the different team sites, conference sites and threads. It seem most wise to live one's beliefs rather than use this sports forum as a pulpit.

I get the point you are driving towards, NewTimes. But Liberty is unique in many aspects. At our very core, we are to exemplify Christ in everything we do and share his Gospel in all things. Our faith permeates our entire lives at home, work and in play. We are to express that in a way that is respectful to everyone. When we are speaking amongst ourselves in the LU community, it is nearly impossible for everythign we write to not be influenced by our faith.

There is certainly room for disageement even amongst ourselves as we have seen in this thread in regard to BYU. But to discount the most important thing in our lives just to keep things focused strictly on Xs & Os is a major ask for many of us.

(07-19-2015 05:10 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  I get the point you are driving towards, NewTimes. But Liberty is unique in many aspects. At our very core, we are to exemplify Christ in everything we do and share his Gospel in all things. Our faith permeates our entire lives at home, work and in play. We are to express that in a way that is respectful to everyone. When we are speaking amongst ourselves in the LU community, it is nearly impossible for everythign we write to not be influenced by our faith.

There is certainly room for disageement even amongst ourselves as we have seen in this thread in regard to BYU. But to discount the most important thing in our lives just to keep things focused strictly on Xs & Os is a major ask for many of us.

Sly, no one is asking anyone to discount the most important thing in their life. It's about what is the best and wisest for a sports bbs. It's easy to agree with your point. It's just a point of what is the best for the athletic program on this bbs. No one is asking for compromises of their faith or views. This is a bbs about sports. Seems the wisest thing is have the dialogue be about sports. If one wants to share their beliefs a PM that seems best.

(07-19-2015 08:07 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 05:10 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  I get the point you are driving towards, NewTimes. But Liberty is unique in many aspects. At our very core, we are to exemplify Christ in everything we do and share his Gospel in all things. Our faith permeates our entire lives at home, work and in play. We are to express that in a way that is respectful to everyone. When we are speaking amongst ourselves in the LU community, it is nearly impossible for everythign we write to not be influenced by our faith.

There is certainly room for disageement even amongst ourselves as we have seen in this thread in regard to BYU. But to discount the most important thing in our lives just to keep things focused strictly on Xs & Os is a major ask for many of us.

Sly, no one is asking anyone to discount the most important thing in their life. It's about what is the best and wisest for a sports bbs. It's easy to agree with your point. It's just a point of what is the best for the athletic program on this bbs. No one is asking for compromises of their faith or views. This is a bbs about sports. Seems the wisest thing is have the dialogue be about sports. If one wants to share their beliefs a PM that seems best.

I once told a fellow church member of mine that I could be the most religious person there was, but God and I had a deal when it came to Arkansas State athletics, and he understood I may not say the nicest things all the time because I love my school deeply and want them to do well, and I was forgiven for it.

I was given a look that clearly indicated they thought I was heading to Hell for it, but I do think the point still stands. We are flawed people, and trying to stay true to every single letter of what we believe while arguing with someone on a Sports Message Board is very difficult. Tolerance becomes the phrase of the day. For all you know the person you're arguing with could be a Buddhist, Atheist, or even Islamic. Getting too deep into a religious discussion on the internet invites us to get into arguments that lead to chaos.

Just my two cents.

Knowing there is no plan for the Big 12 to expand, but understanding they have an expansion committee with a candidate list of BYU, Boise St., Colorado St., UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis and Houston. That would lead to some interesting dominoes. Maybe a door would then open for Liberty.

At this point, I don't see dominoes falling our way antime soon. And having our lack of playoff appearances in regard to CCU's candidacy used against us just rehashes how much I can't wait to get away from Kyle the Kommish. The whole conference situation gives me indigestion.

Sly, if we can draw upon the recent past, it's safe to say that if any conference has any shifting/change that will cause a domino effect and several teams will be effected. Things may seem settled now, but that can change very quickly, especially if any action occurs with a P5 team that could then effect a G5 team. C-USA, the SBC and the MAC are so somewhat calm at the moment, but any shift will reopen the move up/shifting dialogue.

I am very well connected in Big XII country. I don't see them pushing the first domino for at least a few more years. But you are right, things could change. I suspect it will be the B1G that makes next major move in a pre-emptive strike.

My thought is based more on wishful thinking and hoping rather than being connected. I just remember the recent past when one or two teams swapped conferences how the dominoes fell all the way to the SBC being raided.

(07-27-2015 03:20 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  I am very well connected in Big XII country. I don't see them pushing the first domino for at least a few more years. But you are right, things could change. I suspect it will be the B1G that makes next major move in a pre-emptive strike.

Interesting. I would assume Texas and Virginia are 2 BIG interests. What 2 teams would you expect them to pre-emptively go after. I am assuming they'd only go after two.

Notre Dame & Texas are that top of their wish list. UVa & North Carolina are ont he next level down. But unless a Grant of Rights is successfully challenged in court, none of those schools are available. For now.

Living in Big Ten country, I think the Big Ten has three schools (not found in the SEC or Pac 12) they would accept immediately no matter the current members of the conference: Texas, Notre Dame, and North Carolina. The Big Ten also has to prioritize each of those big fish if they want to land one because landing all is almost impossible depending on the size of the conference and landing two would be amazing from the conference's perspective. Landing one is hard enough so from that viewpoint, resources are likely going to be spent to make sure they land one. And the most precious resource is membership slots. How big do they want the conference to get? 16? 18? 20? More?

If it is just 16 then Texas is the best bet and you get them by scaring them into joining with Oklahoma instead of being leftover in a zombie conference or going independent and getting booster/alumni apathy. Going to the "Pac 16" won't be sexy because Oklahoma and Kansas will probably go to the Big Ten which leaves unattractive leftovers to come along and boosters/alumni won't enjoy half of the games starting at 10 PM Texas time. Texas appears too proud to go to follow A&M to the SEC and could you imagine boosters/alumni reacting to following the lead of "little brother?"

The path to UNC likely means that the Big Ten will have to expand past 16 schools so UNC has enough buddies to take along. I doubt UNC would come along with only Virginia or Duke. So it will probably take both and another like Georgia Tech. So if the Big Ten wants UNC down the road, they'll have to start with a package like Georgia Tech and Florida State, though FSU may not have the academic prestige to get a Big Ten invite. UNC would be a tough nut to crack.

Notre Dame, at this point, likely has no aggressive interest from the Big Ten, as in the Big Ten will not actively pursue them. They've danced around together for decades and they aren't a match no matter how much the Big Ten or others want them to be. If Notre Dame had to join a conference or be shut out of the national championship picture or more, they'd pick another conference just to spite the Big Ten.