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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #21
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 10:53 AM)_x_ Wrote:  How does the 20 game schedule prevent multiple bids again?

How does a few extra OOC games automatically help to earn multiple bids?

Not facetious questions. I'm literally asking cause I don't know.

well in conference your always going to go .500, basically causing a wash effect. its in OCC games where the opportunity to raise a conference RPI. with a 20 game schedule, ( I believe) that leaves 10 non-conference opportunities for each team, 11x10 = 110 total OCC games. with a 16 game schedule that then become 14 opportunities per team, 11x14 =154 total OCC games. so 44 additional games the sun belt has the opportunity to raise the conference RPI. AND for those saying schools will just schedule non- D1, well the whole point of going to 16 games to improve the conference is missed if that is the result. even though I can make the point if even half the conference teams schedule D1 teams and the other half non- D1 for the additional 4 games, the end RPI effect would still be higher, than if everyone stayed at 20 games.
04-16-2015 11:48 AM
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_x_ Offline
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Post: #22
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 11:48 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:53 AM)_x_ Wrote:  How does the 20 game schedule prevent multiple bids again?

How does a few extra OOC games automatically help to earn multiple bids?

Not facetious questions. I'm literally asking cause I don't know.

well in conference your always going to go .500, basically causing a wash effect. its in OCC games where the opportunity to raise a conference RPI. with a 20 game schedule, ( I believe) that leaves 10 non-conference opportunities for each team, 11x10 = 110 total OCC games. with a 16 game schedule that then become 14 opportunities per team, 11x14 =154 total OCC games. so 44 additional games the sun belt has the opportunity to raise the conference RPI. AND for those saying schools will just schedule non- D1, well the whole point of going to 16 games to improve the conference is missed if that is the result. even though I can make the point if even half the conference teams schedule D1 teams and the other half non- D1 for the additional 4 games, the end RPI effect would still be higher, than if everyone stayed at 20 games.

But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.
04-16-2015 11:58 AM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #23
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 11:58 AM)_x_ Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:48 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:53 AM)_x_ Wrote:  How does the 20 game schedule prevent multiple bids again?

How does a few extra OOC games automatically help to earn multiple bids?

Not facetious questions. I'm literally asking cause I don't know.

well in conference your always going to go .500, basically causing a wash effect. its in OCC games where the opportunity to raise a conference RPI. with a 20 game schedule, ( I believe) that leaves 10 non-conference opportunities for each team, 11x10 = 110 total OCC games. with a 16 game schedule that then become 14 opportunities per team, 11x14 =154 total OCC games. so 44 additional games the sun belt has the opportunity to raise the conference RPI. AND for those saying schools will just schedule non- D1, well the whole point of going to 16 games to improve the conference is missed if that is the result. even though I can make the point if even half the conference teams schedule D1 teams and the other half non- D1 for the additional 4 games, the end RPI effect would still be higher, than if everyone stayed at 20 games.

But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.

of course winning is always a part of the equation. I guess the big picture idea is giving yourself( conference and individual team) a higher ceiling. currently, the ceiling for the conference is pretty low, without a magical dream type of year for several members.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2015 12:16 PM by balanced_view.)
04-16-2015 12:15 PM
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Pounce FTW Offline
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Post: #24
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 11:58 AM)_x_ Wrote:  But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.

Not necessarily. RPI is a weird animal where playing a good team, who plays good teams, can help you out even if you don't come close to competing. I think your point is valid, though. Winning OOC DI games will help league RPI by strengthening the records of all of our in-conference opponents. The issue is that wins against weak DI teams can also harm RPI. It's not an ideal system.
04-16-2015 12:21 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 11:58 AM)_x_ Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:48 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 10:53 AM)_x_ Wrote:  How does the 20 game schedule prevent multiple bids again?

How does a few extra OOC games automatically help to earn multiple bids?

Not facetious questions. I'm literally asking cause I don't know.

well in conference your always going to go .500, basically causing a wash effect. its in OCC games where the opportunity to raise a conference RPI. with a 20 game schedule, ( I believe) that leaves 10 non-conference opportunities for each team, 11x10 = 110 total OCC games. with a 16 game schedule that then become 14 opportunities per team, 11x14 =154 total OCC games. so 44 additional games the sun belt has the opportunity to raise the conference RPI. AND for those saying schools will just schedule non- D1, well the whole point of going to 16 games to improve the conference is missed if that is the result. even though I can make the point if even half the conference teams schedule D1 teams and the other half non- D1 for the additional 4 games, the end RPI effect would still be higher, than if everyone stayed at 20 games.

But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.

You don't have the opportunity for a higher winning percentage as a conference if you limit the opportunity to play someone out of the conference. Every conference game we play gives us a .500 winning percentage. Playing more conference games only helps your conference winning percentage if you start below .500.

Of course you have to win them.
04-16-2015 12:22 PM
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Pounce FTW Offline
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Post: #26
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 12:15 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:58 AM)_x_ Wrote:  But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.

of course winning is always a part of the equation. I guess the big picture idea is giving yourself( conference and individual team) a higher ceiling. currently, the ceiling for the conference is pretty low, without a magical dream type of year for several members.

This is probably the key theme here. While I don't know that change in scheduling will have much direct impact, it could be part of a cultural shift.
04-16-2015 12:27 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #27
RE: One Bid League
Guys..4-6 playing a good OOC record versus 8-2 playing patsies.

Lets just say that both of the teams go 16-4 in the conference. Both win 2 games in the tournament then lose. Team one finishes 22-11. Team two is 26-7. Team two has no hope of making the tournament as an at large. Team one does.

Lets say both those teams win the tournament championship. Team 1 would be 23-10 with a couple of decent wins. They could actually get an 11 seed or so, helping them with a matchup that they have a much higher liklihood of winning. Team two...27-6 with no decent wins. Maybe a 13 seed.

The 4-6 team is much more likely to get an at large or a decent seed. You have to beat someone decent to escape the cellar of the seeds or to have any hope of getting an at large.

Its not about wins. Its about wins against decent/good teams.

----
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2015 12:35 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-16-2015 12:31 PM
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_x_ Offline
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Post: #28
RE: One Bid League
The Sun Belt went 37-51 OOC last year. More non-conference games won't help anything with that type of record.
04-16-2015 12:38 PM
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Louisiana99 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 12:38 PM)_x_ Wrote:  The Sun Belt went 37-51 OOC last year. More non-conference games won't help anything with that type of record.

That depends on what kinda games they are, more road games against P5 or winnable home games.
04-16-2015 12:40 PM
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balanced_view Offline
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Post: #30
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 12:40 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 12:38 PM)_x_ Wrote:  The Sun Belt went 37-51 OOC last year. More non-conference games won't help anything with that type of record.

That depends on what kinda games they are, more road games against P5 or winnable home games.

Also, gives teams more time to gel, and settle in, in hopes of getting those big wins in occ. with only 10 chances ( all early in the season) you have to start strong and don't have much room for error. 14 games gives more opportunity. that's all this has been about , is more and better opportunity to win games! we only have a limited opportunity currently.
04-16-2015 12:49 PM
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CatMom Offline
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Post: #31
RE: One Bid League
More bids is dependent on the committee members being less generous to the P5s and being willing to add more G5s with better records, or that are more deserving. B12 had 7 of their 10 teams in this year. Some of them just didn't deserve it.

That said, you know the first part of my post won't happen anytime soon.
04-16-2015 12:55 PM
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GaSoEagle Offline
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Post: #32
RE: One Bid League
Our coach has said he supports 20 game schedule as long as the Sun Belt excludes teams from the tournament. I think the main reason 9 of the 11 coaches support it is that it guarantees 10 home games.

It cannot be understated that getting quality home games is a big issue.

Here at GS we are one of the worst at scheduing D2, NAIA type games. We usually have 3 every year at home.

As a start I wish the conference would at least limit it to 2 per team per year.
04-16-2015 01:18 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 01:18 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  Our coach has said he supports 20 game schedule as long as the Sun Belt excludes teams from the tournament. I think the main reason 9 of the 11 coaches support it is that it guarantees 10 home games.

It cannot be understated that getting quality home games is a big issue.

Here at GS we are one of the worst at scheduing D2, NAIA type games. We usually have 3 every year at home.

As a start I wish the conference would at least limit it to 2 per team per year.

It shouldn't be hard to got home games that would be the equivalent to playing a SBC game. App can sign two dozen home and homes with CAA, OVC, SoCon, Big South, and CUSA teams within a four hour drive and we're "hard to get to".

We must limit non-D1 games to 2 a year (I'd prefer 1).

Our schedules tells the world we aren't serious about basketball.
04-16-2015 02:48 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #34
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 12:38 PM)_x_ Wrote:  The Sun Belt went 37-51 OOC last year. More non-conference games won't help anything with that type of record.

If we're going to lose, we might as well lose against good teams.
04-16-2015 03:05 PM
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_x_ Offline
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Post: #35
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 03:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 12:38 PM)_x_ Wrote:  The Sun Belt went 37-51 OOC last year. More non-conference games won't help anything with that type of record.

If we're going to lose, we might as well lose against good teams.

I'd like to see a push to schedule home and homes with other mid-major D1 teams of similar caliber to ourselves. Improves SOS and gives us winnable games.

I think ideally it would be nice if we could pay to get some bad low-major D1 teams for home games to replace the non-D1s. Make the bulk of the schedule home and homes with similar mid-majors and throw in a few money games to fund our programs and help SOS. For whatever reason, most ADs seem to convey that it's difficult to get other D1 teams to agree to home and home deals however.
04-16-2015 03:42 PM
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Hemi Man Offline
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Post: #36
One Bid League
Next year UAB and Southern Miss come to Troy for basketball. Probably one of our best OOC schedule in years.


I'm not a Troy fan because of wins and losses.
04-16-2015 03:42 PM
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Post: #37
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 03:42 PM)_x_ Wrote:  I think ideally it would be nice if we could pay to get some bad low-major D1 teams for home games to replace the non-D1s. Make the bulk of the schedule home and homes with similar mid-majors and throw in a few money games to fund our programs and help SOS. For whatever reason, most ADs seem to convey that it's difficult to get other D1 teams to agree to home and home deals however.

This would make the schedule more interesting, but I think it would kill the league RPI. Again, the system shouldn't work that way, but it does. If you're gonna schedule bad teams, make sure they're from a good league or that they're so bad they're off the grid (non-DI).

The home-and-homes with similar schools and money games at power conference schools are the way to go, though.
04-17-2015 09:18 AM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #38
RE: One Bid League
(04-16-2015 12:21 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  
(04-16-2015 11:58 AM)_x_ Wrote:  But couldn't we worsen league RPI by playing more games if it means we lose a higher % of games? I don't see how we would automatically see an benefit just by playing more games. You have to win a higher % of games also right.

Not necessarily. RPI is a weird animal where playing a good team, who plays good teams, can help you out even if you don't come close to competing. I think your point is valid, though. Winning OOC DI games will help league RPI by strengthening the records of all of our in-conference opponents. The issue is that wins against weak DI teams can also harm RPI. It's not an ideal system.

Not quite. Half your RPI rating is your opponents winning percentage. If UTA played all SWAC schools and got the wins, they'd have a relatively lower RPI because of it. But, because UTA would have a lot of wins, it would raise everyone else's RPI with it once conference play began.

That's why the SBC has a high RPI when conference starts, but it falls when SBC play begins. We play all the top P5 teams, who have a high win and some non-DI teams who don't count. Our collective RPI is high because half the formula is opponent winning percentage. Then we play each other and the RPI falls because we collectively don't have a lot of wins.

If we all played DI schools across the RPI spectrum, the SBC would fare better. However, playing the mix of P5 and non-DI is really hurting.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2015 01:37 PM by FoUTASportscaster.)
04-17-2015 01:36 PM
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