A more fairer question to ask is this:

Does this class so far make this team better than last year's team and move us up to the top 4?

My take so far is yes the backcourt has improved both in depth and scoring.

Not as impressed with the front court-so far.

(04-23-2015 08:11 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We shall see Sam. You have predicted we should return to the top 4 with this recruiting class and our returnees. Hm who puts too much emphasis on incoming recruiting classes especially ours? I'm not completely sold. Maybe if we get a decent center who can walk and chew gum a the same time I'll end up agreeing with you. WMU will also be a threat. Even after losing Brown they have enough decent returnees and recruits coming in to give us a run.

On the transfer front I looked over the verbalcommit transfer list its look like those centers with immediate availability will definitely be a one and done deal. There's Anderson 6'9 out of Fresno St who would have a couple of years left.

Considering that we end up going back to the JUCOs for the center position although I agree with Steve who is the question?

You keep putting words in my mouth. I said if ever there was a year where we could return to the top 4, it would be this upcoming season because of how much talent the top teams from last season are losing. Where did I say "we will be in the top 4?". You are great at taking fragments of a point and construing that as my entire opinion, even though I said there are still plenty of questions for us to answer.

And again, I said IF (I can't put enough emphasis on "if") the JUCO guards pan out, we should be a much better offensive team than Murphy has ever really had. It's impossible to predict how they'll do, since none of us have ever seen them play. But I'm glad you're seemingly sold on everyone else's recruiting class.

I will say, I think there is a very good chance we make the 'final four' (MAC, that is) for 2016/17. We should be flat out loaded.

Toney (PG?), senior,

Lee (SG), senior,

Bond (SF), junior,

Wofford-Humphreys (PF), senior.

unknown ©,

Add the other JUCO(s), other returnees (e.g. Price, Perry, EA) and frosh/redshirt frosh (e.g., Nobles, Stone) and we have a very talented, experienced, and deep lineup.

Man, this is why April and May are the craziest months of the season for college hoops... These rosters for 15/16 are in complete flux.

A UB recruit, apparently pretty good, who decides to re-open his recruitment and getting clearance from the NCAA.

UB has another scholarship to give and a bunch of schools now get a second shot at him...

https://twitter.com/NateNavigato

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/nate-navigato (click on the + sign for the other schools who offered in the past).

BTW, this is NOT his highlight dunk (wonder who it is): x 4 (can a player get a bucket and assist on the same play. Lol). https://t.co/vXGm6FmJDz

The highlights I found for Nate are a really sweet three point shooter. :)

(04-23-2015 08:32 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:11 AM)emu79 Wrote:  We shall see Sam. You have predicted we should return to the top 4 with this recruiting class and our returnees. Hm who puts too much emphasis on incoming recruiting classes especially ours? I'm not completely sold. Maybe if we get a decent center who can walk and chew gum a the same time I'll end up agreeing with you. WMU will also be a threat. Even after losing Brown they have enough decent returnees and recruits coming in to give us a run.

On the transfer front I looked over the verbalcommit transfer list its look like those centers with immediate availability will definitely be a one and done deal. There's Anderson 6'9 out of Fresno St who would have a couple of years left.

Considering that we end up going back to the JUCOs for the center position although I agree with Steve who is the question?

You keep putting words in my mouth. I said if ever there was a year where we could return to the top 4, it would be this upcoming season because of how much talent the top teams from last season are losing. Where did I say "we will be in the top 4?". You are great at taking fragments of a point and construing that as my entire opinion, even though I said there are still plenty of questions for us to answer.

And again, I said IF (I can't put enough emphasis on "if") the JUCO guards pan out, we should be a much better offensive team than Murphy has ever really had. It's impossible to predict how they'll do, since none of us have ever seen them play. But I'm glad you're seemingly sold on everyone else's recruiting class.

And your great at disagreeing with everything I say. Not that I lose any sleep over that fact.

Apparently I'm not the only one that admires other MAC teams recruiting classes:


gobaseline Wrote:
WMU reportedly has a solid class that is balanced regarding positions.

Seth Dugan a 7'er out of Otsego, Michigan had offers from Purdue later in the recruiting cycle. Offers from Toledo, Ball State, NIU, among others. Has some skills and decent athleticism for a HS big. Will have competition at WMU but some think he might emerge early.

Josh Davis out of Henry Ford HS in Detroit. First team all state and lead his team to the class B state championship game. MVP in the Detroit PSL. 6'5 wing who has range and can mix it up inside. Not a freak athlete nor as developed off the bounce. Will push for time but has a couple vets ahead of him. Head of his graduating class so unlike some recent Detroit players who have now transferred from Texas and Iowa State to Oakland he has a good head on his shoulders.

Bryce Moore from Park Tudor HS outside Indy. G with shooting skills but primarily set the table. Led his team to a state championship in class 2 in Indiana. Played with Yogi Ferrell as an underclassman winning a couple other state championship. Could see immediate time as he is physically mature, evenly skilled and knows how to win. With WMU graduating it's back court the door is wide open for Bryce to log significant minutes.

Summary: Center, Wing and combo guard. One repeat state champ, one got his team to state championship game and was MVP in Detroit's PSL and the other had an offer from Purdue as late as October. All 3 will see immediate time. Impact? TBD.

EMU Steve: Dugan and Davis are a great duo at the MAC level.

Note: EMU offered both Dugan and Davis.

Frankly I like NIU's class (an over 7 foot center), WMU's class and Toledo's recruiting class more than ours. We have the advantage of having older more experienced JUCOs. I can't recall the last time an EMU recruit chose EMU over a Big Ten school but that has happened this year with other MAC teams.

True Murphy has owned NIU but of course we used to own CMU each year and Ball State as well and that didn't happened last year did it?

I never said they didn't have good recruiting classes...it's just you expect them all to be studs from day one, which RARELY happens at this level. They might scare me more 2-3 years down the road...maybe we should watch them play a D1 game before we crown them, yeah?

Murphy has never owned CMU. First year, they swept us, second year we split, third year we beat them three times, last year they swept us. Same with Ball State...Murph has never lost to them in Muncie, but they've beat us twice in that span in Ypsi.

I love that you mentioned NIU's 7 footer...who averaged 4 points and 3 rebounds a game at his JUCO. He sounds like quite a downgrade from Threloff, who wasn't as tall, but was at least a threat to score in the post. The rest of Monty's class looks good and has lots of pretty stars next to their names, but the next time NIU's offense looks effective against our zone will be it's first. Monty better hope his freshmen have an immediate impact, because if they don't he's probably gonna get canned. I guess I'm not as envious of NIU as you are.

(04-24-2015 07:10 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Apparently I'm not the only one that admires other MAC teams recruiting classes:


gobaseline Wrote:
WMU reportedly has a solid class that is balanced regarding positions.

Seth Dugan a 7'er out of Otsego, Michigan had offers from Purdue later in the recruiting cycle. Offers from Toledo, Ball State, NIU, among others. Has some skills and decent athleticism for a HS big. Will have competition at WMU but some think he might emerge early.

Josh Davis out of Henry Ford HS in Detroit. First team all state and lead his team to the class B state championship game. MVP in the Detroit PSL. 6'5 wing who has range and can mix it up inside. Not a freak athlete nor as developed off the bounce. Will push for time but has a couple vets ahead of him. Head of his graduating class so unlike some recent Detroit players who have now transferred from Texas and Iowa State to Oakland he has a good head on his shoulders.

Bryce Moore from Park Tudor HS outside Indy. G with shooting skills but primarily set the table. Led his team to a state championship in class 2 in Indiana. Played with Yogi Ferrell as an underclassman winning a couple other state championship. Could see immediate time as he is physically mature, evenly skilled and knows how to win. With WMU graduating it's back court the door is wide open for Bryce to log significant minutes.

Summary: Center, Wing and combo guard. One repeat state champ, one got his team to state championship game and was MVP in Detroit's PSL and the other had an offer from Purdue as late as October. All 3 will see immediate time. Impact? TBD.

EMU Steve: Dugan and Davis are a great duo at the MAC level.

Note: EMU offered both Dugan and Davis.

Frankly I like NIU's class (an over 7 foot center), WMU's class and Toledo's recruiting class more than ours. We have the advantage of having older more experienced JUCOs. I can't recall the last time an EMU recruit chose EMU over a Big Ten school but that has happened this year with other MAC teams.

True Murphy has owned NIU but of course we used to own CMU each year and Ball State as well and that didn't happened last year did it?

NO one doubts, including ME, WMU's recruiting class (I haven't paid attention to Toledo's).

What Sam and I disagree with you is:

"WMU had a very good recruiting class [therefore] they'll be tough next year".

You do this with EMU FB, MAC FB, etc. No EMU FB true freshmen is a threat to make all-MAC or be an impact performer (Harris played well, though).

Frosh just don't win championships... They're like players called up from Triple AAA or AA baseball. Rookies.

IF anything, a JUCO is more likely to contribute then a frosh.

I use a 'time lag' correlation. Take the 2015 recruiting class and correlate it with their performance say 2 or 3 years down the road.

[Teams, other then the Fab Four (and Kentucky) don't win with freshmen. Certainly not in the MAC, where McDonald's All-Americans don't land.]

Ann Arbor (MI) Huron guard Xavier Cochran said he will pick between Dayton, IPFW, Youngstown St., Western Michigan or prep school next week.

Hm.

Shannon Evans to Arizona State. No surprise.

(04-23-2015 08:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  A more fairer question to ask is this:

Does this class so far make this team better than last year's team and move us up to the top 4?

My take so far is yes the backcourt has improved both in depth and scoring.

Not as impressed with the front court-so far.

Well said. This recruiting class started out so good with the early signing of Stone. Toney and Mangum seem like good pick ups too, but they are not addressing needs.

Anxious about who the 5th pick will be. But that might be too little too late. Not sure what Muphy's strategy is other than just trying to get the best talent available regardless of position.

We needed scoring. In a bad way. Those two seem like they were pretty proficient scorers at the JUCO level. I wouldn't say they aren't addressing needs.

I'm assuming our last schollie will be on another center. It looks like we are gonna be a very back-court oriented team this year, but we aren't necessarily small. We return 6'11, 6'9, 6'8, and 6'7, while adding 6'9 and however tall our assumed 5th scholarship center we add will be. Our length should still give people fits on the defensive end.

(04-24-2015 09:55 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  A more fairer question to ask is this:

Does this class so far make this team better than last year's team and move us up to the top 4?

My take so far is yes the backcourt has improved both in depth and scoring.

Not as impressed with the front court-so far.

Well said. This recruiting class started out so good with the early signing of Stone. Toney and Mangum seem like good pick ups too, but they are not addressing needs.

Anxious about who the 5th pick will be. But that might be too little too late. Not sure what Muphy's strategy is other than just trying to get the best talent available regardless of position.

Despite the late date there is a LOT of good experienced talent available.

Here is an excellent MAC 'case study': KSU gets a grad. eligible shooting guard from Cornell who ave. almost 10 ppg as a senior.

http://kentstatesports.com/news/2015/4/2...55508.aspx

Murphy does not 'reach' in November for h.s. players just to have kids to sign. He seems willing to roll the dice in March/April/May.

I'd bet Murphy would be a great poker player. He doesn't panic or throw "Hail Mary" passes, etc. He had 5 scholarships and signed 0 (!) in November.

I didn't do a 'hard count' but looking at a list of 'Immediate eligible' uncommitted graduate eligible transfers from Verbalcommits.com I'd guess the number available is around 100.

The 'bad news' is that more and more teams are 'clearing rosters' to have scholarships to give in April as there is a glut of new transfer players becoming available + all of these 'released from their LOI' so competition now is getting much tougher.

I remember the days when most recruits signed in November and April was 'left overs' (e.g., dubious academics, some late bloomers, etc.). Teams would keep maybe one scholarship for April.

Now as Sam as indicated these graduate eligible transfers are a gold mine for a team which is 'close.' They pick up a good mid-major (e.g., MSU picked up transfer Forbes last year) who will contribute more then a late add h.s. recruit.

(04-24-2015 10:12 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(04-24-2015 09:55 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(04-23-2015 08:24 AM)emu79 Wrote:  A more fairer question to ask is this:

Does this class so far make this team better than last year's team and move us up to the top 4?

My take so far is yes the backcourt has improved both in depth and scoring.

Not as impressed with the front court-so far.

Well said. This recruiting class started out so good with the early signing of Stone. Toney and Mangum seem like good pick ups too, but they are not addressing needs.

Anxious about who the 5th pick will be. But that might be too little too late. Not sure what Muphy's strategy is other than just trying to get the best talent available regardless of position.

Despite the late date there is a LOT of good experienced talent available.

Here is an excellent MAC 'case study': KSU gets a grad. eligible shooting guard from Cornell who ave. almost 10 ppg as a senior.

http://kentstatesports.com/news/2015/4/2...55508.aspx

Murphy does not 'reach' in November for h.s. players just to have kids to sign. He seems willing to roll the dice in March/April/May.

I'd bet Murphy would be a great poker player. He doesn't panic or throw "Hail Mary" passes, etc. He had 5 scholarships and signed 0 (!) in November.

I didn't do a 'hard count' but looking at a list of 'Immediate eligible' uncommitted graduate eligible transfers from Verbalcommits.com I'd guess the number available is around 100.

The 'bad news' is that more and more teams are 'clearing rosters' to have scholarships to give in April as there is a glut of new transfer players becoming available + all of these 'released from their LOI' so competition now is getting much tougher.

I remember the days when most recruits signed in November and April was 'left overs' (e.g., dubious academics, some late bloomers, etc.). Teams would keep maybe one scholarship for April.

Now as Sam as indicated these graduate eligible transfers are a gold mine for a team which is 'close.' They pick up a good mid-major (e.g., MSU picked up transfer Forbes last year) who will contribute more then a late add h.s. recruit.

Gold mine? Lost mind is more like it! 17 seniors& grad students in 3 years and the only thing to show for it is ever weaker schedules, near empty arenas, and ever shrinking season tickets sales. And 3rd rate invites to 4th rate tournaments!

O/T: But how the graduate eligible transfer rule is killing Cleveland State. They've become the Toledo Mud Hens of college hoops.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/0...ry-waters/

(and don't forget Forbes who left a year ago for MSU).

EagleSam has commented on the graduate eligible rule changes the NCAA is considering... Here is a very good article.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...ority-list

Many believe changes need to be made esp in the graduate eligible transfer rules as graduate school is usually two years and a player plays one year so he or she completes half of the credits and frequently stops when the eligibility and financial aid runs out...

Here is a quote showing the magnitude of the transfer issue (there are 351 D-I basketball schools):

"One of the hottest topics is transfers. According to an NCAA report based on statistics from ESPN, 604 Division I men's basketball players changed schools in 2014 compared with 455 in 2013."

Look at the math: 604 transfers / 351 schools (2014 numbers).

(04-27-2015 01:43 PM)emu steve Wrote:  EagleSam has commented on the graduate eligible rule changes the NCAA is considering... Here is a very good article.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...ority-list

Many believe changes need to be made esp in the graduate eligible transfer rules as graduate school is usually two years and a player plays one year so he or she completes half of the credits and frequently stops when the eligibility and financial aid runs out...

Here is a quote showing the magnitude of the transfer issue (there are 351 D-I basketball schools):

"One of the hottest topics is transfers. According to an NCAA report based on statistics from ESPN, 604 Division I men's basketball players changed schools in 2014 compared with 455 in 2013."

Look at the math: 604 transfers / 351 schools (2014 numbers).

Exactly. Calipari, even though I can't stand him, makes a great point in the article. Your typical Master's Program is two years worth of classes. Having grad transfers sit out a year would give them the financial clearing to actually finish their Master's program while still being an athlete.

And he also mentioned that removing the waiver would cut the transfer list down by 2/3. I agree with that as well.

Where this is even worse is football. Take this example:

1/2 of FBS don't go to bowl games. Their seasons end usually late November.

Maybe the player isn't motivated academically and does poorly first graduate semester and if no bowl game, so what... He goes home for Christmas break never to be seen again... Ugh! That's really a perversion of a program to foster/promote graduate education.

Story about the problems the MAC has had with bball transfers out this year. Some of it blamed on shuffling of head coaches.

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/...rd_in.html

Not a 'transfer Tuesday' but Ohio loses their SG.

Again a transfer from a school with a new head coach.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-742481.html