(02-17-2015 08:22 AM)EagleSam Wrote: However you want to rationalize a 36 point loss is your prerogative. With all due respect, Ohio just isn't very good this year. Losing to NIU by double digits at home (I guess they didn't "feed off the crowd" that day), and to Miami by double digits on the road kinda kills your argument. It happens. We aren't very good on the road either.
By and large, teams just play better at home. It's where they practice virtually every day, and they don't have to take a long bus ride or flight to get there.
not trying to rationalize a 36pt loss, Ohio came out flat and uninspired and EMU ran them out of the gym. 10 days later Ohio beat EMU by 3pts. A 30pt swing is an indication that there were other factors besides coaching and player talent.
I'm saying I've seen the Bobcats have this problem before, in 2012 the team that went to the Sweet 16 team suffered their biggest loss of the year in Ypsi in a game where the Bobcats didn't even put up a fight.
Obviously low attendance isn't a deliberate strategy, all I'm saying is it takes more mental discipline and maturity to player in an atmosphere that might feel more like a scrimmage. And again, I mean no offense by it.
(02-17-2015 08:22 AM)EagleSam Wrote: However you want to rationalize a 36 point loss is your prerogative. With all due respect, Ohio just isn't very good this year. Losing to NIU by double digits at home (I guess they didn't "feed off the crowd" that day), and to Miami by double digits on the road kinda kills your argument. It happens. We aren't very good on the road either.
By and large, teams just play better at home. It's where they practice virtually every day, and they don't have to take a long bus ride or flight to get there.
not trying to rationalize a 36pt loss, Ohio came out flat and uninspired and EMU ran them out of the gym. 10 days later Ohio beat EMU by 3pts. A 30pt swing is an indication that there were other factors besides coaching and player talent.
I'm saying I've seen the Bobcats have this problem before, in 2012 the team that went to the Sweet 16 team suffered their biggest loss of the year in Ypsi in a game where the Bobcats didn't even put up a fight.
Obviously low attendance isn't a deliberate strategy, all I'm saying is it takes more mental discipline and maturity to player in an atmosphere that might feel more like a scrimmage. And again, I mean no offense by it.
I don't think any of these players were on that Sweet 16 team, and it was also a different coach. So unless Ohio perennially has players that lack mental discipline and maturity, regardless of the coach, then I don't think that argument holds up. Not to mention you beat us in Ypsi last year. We've had attendance problems for a very long time. Only since Murphy has been here have we been really stout at home.
Again, I think it's just more that you guys aren't very good this season, and we've been pretty good at home. I highly doubt crowd size (or lack thereof) matters, but that is your opinion and I will respect it.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2015 09:58 AM by EagleSam.)
(02-17-2015 08:27 AM)rayEMU Wrote: You might have a point, it could be deflating to play in front of such a small crowd.
ie, gives the sense of a practice rather than a game, so they don't get that game-time heightened attention thing.
Then NIU would be as good at home as we are. And why doesn't the small crowd deflate our energy too? Wouldn't it give us the sense of a practice rather than a game as well?
Big crowds affect teams on the road, small crowds affect teams on the road...I think just playing on the road affects teams on the road.
Not that NIU would be AS good as EMU at home since there are other factors- quality of players, coaching, etc come into play as well.
To your second point, the smaller crowds would not impact EMU the same as the the visiting team because they are conditioned to different things.
(02-17-2015 08:27 AM)rayEMU Wrote: You might have a point, it could be deflating to play in front of such a small crowd.
ie, gives the sense of a practice rather than a game, so they don't get that game-time heightened attention thing.
Then NIU would be as good at home as we are. And why doesn't the small crowd deflate our energy too? Wouldn't it give us the sense of a practice rather than a game as well?
Big crowds affect teams on the road, small crowds affect teams on the road...I think just playing on the road affects teams on the road.
Not that NIU would be AS good as EMU at home since there are other factors- quality of players, coaching, etc come into play as well.
To your second point, the smaller crowds would not impact EMU the same as the the visiting team because they are conditioned to different things.
Exactly. Those factors suggest we are a better team than NIU. Decent teams take care of business at home, which is what we are doing. Good teams win on the road, which isn't what we are doing.
2nd part is a bit of a reach, Ray. We are conditioned to playing on our home floor, which is one of the reasons why any team has a bit of an advantage playing at home. I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but I highly doubt our small crowd has anything to do with why we are better at home than we are on the road. Ohio fans are a bit attendance obsessed, at least the ones that post on the main board. It's great that they get such huge crowds, and I'm jealous, but they've proven capable of losing on the road in any type of environment this year.
Sam, this concersation started because someone noted how much home court advantage EMU has despite not having a big crowd. The crowd is generally regarded as one of the biggest advantages - pumps the home team, sways the refs. There are other factors definitely, and maybe as you point out matter much more than the crowd. We are just trying speculate if the crowd does in fact matter and how is it impacting EMU and it's opponents at the convo. Since it is not consistent with usual intuition. It is a topic that piqued my interest and came up with a plausible explanation. But I am not insisting on it.
(02-17-2015 08:22 AM)EagleSam Wrote: However you want to rationalize a 36 point loss is your prerogative. With all due respect, Ohio just isn't very good this year. Losing to NIU by double digits at home (I guess they didn't "feed off the crowd" that day), and to Miami by double digits on the road kinda kills your argument. It happens. We aren't very good on the road either.
By and large, teams just play better at home. It's where they practice virtually every day, and they don't have to take a long bus ride or flight to get there.
not trying to rationalize a 36pt loss, Ohio came out flat and uninspired and EMU ran them out of the gym. 10 days later Ohio beat EMU by 3pts. A 30pt swing is an indication that there were other factors besides coaching and player talent.
I'm saying I've seen the Bobcats have this problem before, in 2012 the team that went to the Sweet 16 team suffered their biggest loss of the year in Ypsi in a game where the Bobcats didn't even put up a fight.
Obviously low attendance isn't a deliberate strategy, all I'm saying is it takes more mental discipline and maturity to player in an atmosphere that might feel more like a scrimmage. And again, I mean no offense by it.
I don't think any of these players were on that Sweet 16 team, and it was also a different coach. So unless Ohio perennially has players that lack mental discipline and maturity, regardless of the coach, then I don't think that argument holds up. Not to mention you beat us in Ypsi last year. We've had attendance problems for a very long time. Only since Murphy has been here have we been really stout at home.
Again, I think it's just more that you guys aren't very good this season, and we've been pretty good at home. I highly doubt crowd size (or lack thereof) matters, but that is your opinion and I will respect it.
yes, that's my point. Its two different Ohio teams but its the same problem- difference in crowd size. Now, I'm not saying that this is ALWAYS a factor, and I'm not in any way suggesting that EMU wins ONLY because of this factor, EMU won fair and square and earned the win, not taking anything away from them. All I'm saying is that crowd size can be A factor, just as a zone defense can be a factor, or just as.. etc, etc. That's all I meant by it.
Don't know how to fit this post with the other posts, but...
One thing I thought about re: Bond.
Many talented frosh might be ready to 'hit the wall' as sometimes happens during their frosh seasons (playing a long D-I season is tough on first year players).
However, Bond is really like a 1st semester frosh. He is getting better as he gains experience, not hitting the wall...
Bond might hit the wall in the MAC tourney if we play say four games (like last year).
(02-16-2015 11:19 AM)emu79 Wrote: Hoping to go 2-0 this week. The Akron win was a pleasant surprise.
Yep, we'll see if the new lineup is the 'golden' lineup for a big run. As Ray noted, after starting the first 1/3 of the season 1 - 5, we went on a 4 - 2 run...
As I look at this season to date, we've had some downers (e.g., those two one point OT losses to start the MAC season), but beating UofM, Akron, WMU, etc. are big pluses.
This season really has been the half full/half empty season.
Pick you glass...
Come on Steve. Half empty for sure...
EMU loses Talley and Ward. People may develope and recruits may still come in. They may not. We can't keep saying some good things happened let's wait until next year.
I am not one of the pessimists who does not recognize how EMU basketball is at least competitive again. I also recognize that next year holds some promise as well.
But this year, Given where EMU is and where they will likely end up, this season is clearly a disappointment. That's ok life goes on.
First of all I had some doubts after losing Riley, Bryant Harrison, Combs et al. Just the sheer number of newcomers to fit in the system seemed a difficult task. What makes it disappointing was the surprising non conference record (although some of the competition well). I can see perhaps why this season's schedule was softer some of the games were clearly to get the engine running on all cylinders. Who knew that CMU would emerge this year? There is still a fair amount of basketball to be played and if we can get Big MO on our side and click we may surprise some people. Alvano, Bond, Samuels, Naz Price all good pieces of next year's puzzle. And this year's team is as entertaining to watch as last years. And if Raven can keep his focus he'll own the MAC next year.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2015 06:33 PM by emu79.)
(02-17-2015 03:14 AM)perimeterpost Wrote: Honestly, I think EMU's lack of fans provides an unintentional home court advantage. Look at Ohio, they beat Buffalo in front of 9,124 screaming fans at home and then travel to EMU three days later and lose by 36pts in front of 837 spectators. The emptiness creates an energy vacuum for teams that are used to feeding off the crowd.
And I'm not trying to humble-brag on Ohio or passive-aggressively diss EMU, I really believe it works in your favor against the Bobcats who struggle to mentally get into game mode in front of smaller crowds.
It is a really strange environment...the place is really empty and quiet. You can hear individual conversations.
(02-17-2015 06:32 PM)emu79 Wrote: First of all I had some doubts after losing Riley, Bryant Harrison, Combs et al. Just the sheer number of newcomers to fit in the system seemed a difficult task. What makes it disappointing was the surprising non conference record (although some of the competition well). I can see perhaps why this season's schedule was softer some of the games were clearly to get the engine running on all cylinders. Who knew that CMU would emerge this year? There is still a fair amount of basketball to be played and if we can get Big MO on our side and click we may surprise some people. Alvano, Bond, Samuels, Naz Price all good pieces of next year's puzzle. And this year's team is as entertaining to watch as last years. And if Raven can keep his focus he'll own the MAC next year.
In some ways I am with you, 79. Next year does have a lot of promise with Lee returning and moreso Bond's freshman-to-sophomore potential. and of course a lot of other returnees. But losing Talley and Ward will be a bigger loss than any two players from the previous year.
I had said all off season that replacing backups is easy. Replacing your best players is the hard part. Just ask WMU. But we'll see how everything comes together with the Kate recruiting and player development for next year.
And I definitely agree There is a lot of basketball to be played this year. If EMU gets to .500 in the MAC and another run to the semi finals, I will not be complaining one bit (of course still hoping for more the next year). Achieving either of those will be tough, but conceivable goals.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2015 08:28 PM by rayEMU.)
They're almost as bad of an outside shooting team as we are. Only Skeete is better than 33% from 3. This is definitely a "shrink the zone" game. Make life for Moss a living hell, create some turnovers, and run Buffalo off the court.
Over/under for Bobby Hurley technical fouls set at .5, and over/under for Bobby Hurley complaints and stink faces set at 10000000.
(02-18-2015 08:50 AM)EagleSam Wrote: Over/under for Bobby Hurley technical fouls set at .5, and over/under for Bobby Hurley complaints and stink faces set at 10000000.
over/under on the furthest he gets on the court during play is 6 feet. i might sit with the students tonight so i can yell at hurley without being obnoxious to those around me.
(02-18-2015 08:50 AM)EagleSam Wrote: Over/under for Bobby Hurley technical fouls set at .5, and over/under for Bobby Hurley complaints and stink faces set at 10000000.
over/under on the furthest he gets on the court during play is 6 feet. i might sit with the students tonight so i can yell at hurley without being obnoxious to those around me.
Do it Aaron! I never thought I'd be more annoyed by an in-game coach than Mark Montgomery, but then Bobby Hurley came along. He's such a tool.
Couple of thoughts.. Here in Louisville, we've been dealing with about 10 inches of snow over the past three days and are expecting potential wind chills of 25 to 30 below or worse.. Three snow days in a row too(I can't ever remember that from my childhood) and a good chance for at least another tomorrow and maybe even Friday.
First off, in terms of EMU's advantage at the Convocation Center, I think it just comes from the fact that the players are used to the environment, used to practicing and playing there and in addition not having to deal with the extra travel. I'd also argue that instead of thinking of the lack of crowds as an advantage, I just prefer to think of the fact that when Eastern is playing at home they are negating any advantage that the opposing team has on the road. Then when you have a team that seems to play more consistent defense and harder at home, I like our chances against just about anyone at the Convo. On the road, we just seem to go through these games where we just don't see to play with that same level of intensity.
Second off, long term with this team if they can find a way to get to 9-9 or better in MAC play, I'd consider that pretty good considering the poor performances on the road in the first half and the two unfortunate games to start off MAC play. This would mean that the Eagles would have to go 4-2 over this stretch with four home games and two very winnable road games. Whose to say Eastern couldn't theoretically win these 6? Plus this would mean that EMU is playing good basketball going into the MAC tourney and with our supposed "depth" and our tricky "defense" will make us a very tricky out. Honestly, you never know. The MAC is filled with a bunch of good teams but any of them could be beat on any given night. Right now, I'd say the best two I've seen is BG and Toledo.
Third off, if I had to point at one thing about this team.. Notice how different they've played when Karrington has been healthy. Even that crazy Miami game at Millett, Eastern probably played the best half in 10 years. When Ward's healthy, it opens up more space for our guards and gives them more options. When Ward wasn't healthy and not playing very well, you make our forwards beat you and that isn't going to happen. I don't think it's very shocking that you're seeing a connection between EMU having success and Ward playing better. Hopefully that continues.
Fourth of all, last three times I've had a snow day here in Louisville, Eastern has won on that day. Let's keep that streak going too. :)
(02-17-2015 06:32 PM)emu79 Wrote: First of all I had some doubts after losing Riley, Bryant Harrison, Combs et al. Just the sheer number of newcomers to fit in the system seemed a difficult task. What makes it disappointing was the surprising non conference record (although some of the competition well). I can see perhaps why this season's schedule was softer some of the games were clearly to get the engine running on all cylinders. Who knew that CMU would emerge this year? There is still a fair amount of basketball to be played and if we can get Big MO on our side and click we may surprise some people. Alvano, Bond, Samuels, Naz Price all good pieces of next year's puzzle. And this year's team is as entertaining to watch as last years. And if Raven can keep his focus he'll own the MAC next year.
In some ways I am with you, 79. Next year does have a lot of promise with Lee returning and moreso Bond's freshman-to-sophomore potential. and of course a lot of other returnees. But losing Talley and Ward will be a bigger loss than any two players from the previous year.
I had said all off season that replacing backups is easy. Replacing your best players is the hard part. Just ask WMU. But we'll see how everything comes together with the Kate recruiting and player development for next year.
And I definitely agree There is a lot of basketball to be played this year. If EMU gets to .500 in the MAC and another run to the semi finals, I will not be complaining one bit (of course still hoping for more the next year). Achieving either of those will be tough, but conceivable goals.
What's your take on Nobles? Yes replacing Talley and Ward will be difficult but we also need some power forwards types to replace our 5th senior players in the rotation.
