(02-09-2015 02:51 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:40 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:27 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 12:15 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 11:22 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  I'm not interested in what's happening on the NFL level when discussing recruiting. In the national title game more than 50% of the starting 44 were four or five star players. That's the statistic that matters to me.

And half of those would have been lower stars had they simply chose to go to a different school, same guy, same skill set, same size,same speed different rating just because his LOI had a different school at the top. If an individual ranking can vary this much how can you rank an entire class, when at our level most of our guys haven't even been eveluatedby these sites.

The star rating becoming bigger when they commit or sign with a bigger school doesn't happen as much as you think, and certainly not half the time. Every player that has a rating has been evaluated, and most of our SBC classes only have a few if any unrated recruits. It's simply not as big if an issue as you make it out to be.

You make it out as if these isolated incidents would cause the recruiting rankings to be wildly different from the conference standings. But we know that's not the case, as the results simply don't back your claims. But by all means, tell me how the exceptions all the sudden became the rule.

Apparently Yall are the ones making it out to be more than it is,I'm not... I don't care about the rankings and we have been near the top of the league in recruiting and I don't put much into it. If you want live by recruiting rankings then go ahead. Right now, it's all on paper. These websites make money in different ways from different places. That should tell you why they fluctuate like they do. I don't need to point out every circumstance, I don't buy them... You do, don't need to change your mind, dont really care. It's for the fans and message boards to argue over, just like right now. Prime example of app st and GS have been getting classes ranked below us for years, well you see how those "worse ranked" classes worked out.

You're right. We won't convince each other.
However, it's worth noting that App State and Georgia Southern finished #1 and #2 in 2014 in the recruiting class rankings......

yeah, but 1 year isn't going to make an immediate impact. We redshirted a lot of our guys, including all the OL we signed, same with app. you need to consistently rank high for it to continuously pay off on the field.

Just my opinion, but most of the 4-5 star guys are often the truly gifted and physically mature for their age athletes. Many of the 2-3 stars truly benefit from the extra red-shirt year to grow, get better strength training and better technique coaching than they got in HS, especially small HS guys. I expect the majority of Apps recruits will benefit from this and then you see how good they really are or can be. Then of course there is the immeasurable "football IQ" and individual determination that plays a lot into success. I want as many "high star" players as we can get but many of the lower rated guys will become the monsters of tomorrow. The team's system plays a factor also. I just hope App and the SB get more of these high quality players than the other G-5s and know how to develop them.

(02-09-2015 03:26 PM)SpeedkingATL Wrote:  Just my opinion, but most of the 4-5 star guys are often the truly gifted and physically mature for their age athletes. Many of the 2-3 stars truly benefit from the extra red-shirt year to grow, get better strength training and better technique coaching than they got in HS, especially small HS guys. I expect the majority of Apps recruits will benefit from this and then you see how good they really are or can be. Then of course there is the immeasurable "football IQ" and individual determination that plays a lot into success. I want as many "high star" players as we can get but many of the lower rated guys will become the monsters of tomorrow. The team's system plays a factor also. I just hope App and the SB get more of these high quality players than the other G-5s and know how to develop them.

definitely true about maturation. That's how you get guys who come out of HS small, go to a "small" school, and next thing you know, 4 years later he has gained 30 pounds and is even faster than before. See Jerrick McKinnon. lol

(02-09-2015 02:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:51 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:40 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:27 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 12:15 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  And half of those would have been lower stars had they simply chose to go to a different school, same guy, same skill set, same size,same speed different rating just because his LOI had a different school at the top. If an individual ranking can vary this much how can you rank an entire class, when at our level most of our guys haven't even been eveluatedby these sites.

The star rating becoming bigger when they commit or sign with a bigger school doesn't happen as much as you think, and certainly not half the time. Every player that has a rating has been evaluated, and most of our SBC classes only have a few if any unrated recruits. It's simply not as big if an issue as you make it out to be.

You make it out as if these isolated incidents would cause the recruiting rankings to be wildly different from the conference standings. But we know that's not the case, as the results simply don't back your claims. But by all means, tell me how the exceptions all the sudden became the rule.

Apparently Yall are the ones making it out to be more than it is,I'm not... I don't care about the rankings and we have been near the top of the league in recruiting and I don't put much into it. If you want live by recruiting rankings then go ahead. Right now, it's all on paper. These websites make money in different ways from different places. That should tell you why they fluctuate like they do. I don't need to point out every circumstance, I don't buy them... You do, don't need to change your mind, dont really care. It's for the fans and message boards to argue over, just like right now. Prime example of app st and GS have been getting classes ranked below us for years, well you see how those "worse ranked" classes worked out.

You're right. We won't convince each other.
However, it's worth noting that App State and Georgia Southern finished #1 and #2 in 2014 in the recruiting class rankings......

yeah, but 1 year isn't going to make an immediate impact. We redshirted a lot of our guys, including all the OL we signed, same with app. you need to consistently rank high for it to continuously pay off on the field.

Actually GS played one true freshman OL kid, Tommy Boynton at right guard. He'll be about 6'4", 290 this season and will most likely get the starting nod at RG

ah. I stand corrected.

(02-09-2015 02:59 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:51 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:40 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:27 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 12:15 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  And half of those would have been lower stars had they simply chose to go to a different school, same guy, same skill set, same size,same speed different rating just because his LOI had a different school at the top. If an individual ranking can vary this much how can you rank an entire class, when at our level most of our guys haven't even been eveluatedby these sites.

The star rating becoming bigger when they commit or sign with a bigger school doesn't happen as much as you think, and certainly not half the time. Every player that has a rating has been evaluated, and most of our SBC classes only have a few if any unrated recruits. It's simply not as big if an issue as you make it out to be.

You make it out as if these isolated incidents would cause the recruiting rankings to be wildly different from the conference standings. But we know that's not the case, as the results simply don't back your claims. But by all means, tell me how the exceptions all the sudden became the rule.

Apparently Yall are the ones making it out to be more than it is,I'm not... I don't care about the rankings and we have been near the top of the league in recruiting and I don't put much into it. If you want live by recruiting rankings then go ahead. Right now, it's all on paper. These websites make money in different ways from different places. That should tell you why they fluctuate like they do. I don't need to point out every circumstance, I don't buy them... You do, don't need to change your mind, dont really care. It's for the fans and message boards to argue over, just like right now. Prime example of app st and GS have been getting classes ranked below us for years, well you see how those "worse ranked" classes worked out.

You're right. We won't convince each other.
However, it's worth noting that App State and Georgia Southern finished #1 and #2 in 2014 in the recruiting class rankings......

yeah, but 1 year isn't going to make an immediate impact. We redshirted a lot of our guys, including all the OL we signed, same with app. you need to consistently rank high for it to continuously pay off on the field.

Point being that as soon as you became FBS, your players got rated and turns out they were pretty good.
I have little doubt that your previous classes weren't too far behind these. Your coaches just did a good job of identifying talent and getting them to sign. Now they're getting noticed.

(02-04-2015 07:41 AM)statefanatic Wrote:  2015 signing class for stAte

1.Joseph Bacchus OL 6-5 285 Southaven, Miss JUCO 24/7Sports 3Star
2.Brandon Berg OL 6-2 275 Tulsa, Okla. JUCO
3.Cody Brown DB 6-2 205 Independence, Kan. JUCO 24/7 Sports 3Star
4.Allen Sentimore DB 6-1 190 Scooba, Miss. JUCO
5.Waylon Roberson DL 6-2 340 Roswell, N.M. JUCO
6.Jake Swalley DL 6-2 283 Highland, Kan. JUCO 24/7 Sports 3Star
7.Robert Mondie DL 6-2 300 Memphis, Tenn. UAB Transfer
8.Tajhea Chambers QB 6-2 215 Milledgeville, Ga. 24/7 Sports and Scout 3Star
9.D.J. Pearson QB 6-2 190 Duluth, Ga. 24/7 Sports, ESPN and Scout 3Star
10.Darveon Brown WR 5-11 176 Warren, Ark. 24/7Sports, Rivals and ESPN 3Star
11.Javier Carbonell DL 6-2 285 Bentonville, Ark. 24/7Sports and Scout 3Star
12.Dalton Ford OL 6-4 295 Webb City, Mo. 24/7Sports and Scout 3Star
13.Kirk Louis LB 6-2 230 Baton Rouge, La. 24/7Sports 3Star
14.Donovan Ransom DL 6-1 270 Garland, Texas
15.Warren Wand RB 5-5 174 Edmond, Okla. ESPN and Rivals 3Star
16.Jamal Jones RB 5-9 185 Memphis, Tenn. 24/7Sports, Rivals and ESPN 3Star
17.Griffin Riggs DE 6-3 235 Auburn, Ala. 24/7Sports, ESPN and Scout 3Star
18.Cameron Davis OL 6-4 280 Bryan, Ark. 24/7Sports and Scout 3Star
19.Earl Harrison RB 5-10 175 Memphis, Tenn. 24/7Sports 3Star
20.Avery Johnson ATH 6-2 210 Hardy, Ark. 24/7Sports 3Star
21.Justin Clifton LB 6-0 207 Tupelo, Miss. ESPN 3Star
22.Omar Bayless WR 6-3 190 Laurel, Miss. 24/7Sports and Rivals 3Star
23.T.J. Harris DE 6-2 225 Tulsa, Okla.
24.Jaylon Marshall WR 6-2 190 Warren, Ark. ESPN 3Star

You missed one, and I didn't feel like going through 28 pages to see if it was in there. Dee Williams, running back from Moody, AL. He is in my local area, front page of the local newspaper sports page. He had interest from South, GaSt, Southern Miss, UAb(for what that's worth) and Kentucky. Hope he is a good one for you.

There was actually a nice bit in there about stAte, so good to see some Sun Belt loved in central Alabama.

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

(02-13-2015 12:58 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

Agree.

(02-13-2015 12:58 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

Most of the top kids are rated well before committing and or signing a LOI. So not really and it still does not change the fact that four and five star kids have a higher draft %. Nor does it change the fact unless you have multiple top ten classes you likely did not win a NC recently. These rankings are not the end all be all but the folks that say they are meaningless are dead wrong.

2016
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...HighSchool 995 kids already rated only a handful already committed
2017
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Footbal...HighSchool Already 115 kids rated only a few committed

(02-18-2015 07:32 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:58 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

Most of the top kids are rated well before committing and or signing a LOI. So not really and it still does not change the fact that four and five star kids have a higher draft %. Nor does it change the fact unless you have multiple top ten classes you likely did not win a NC recently. These rankings are not the end all be all but the folks that say they are meaningless are dead wrong.

2016
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...HighSchool 995 kids already rated only a handful already committed
2017
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Footbal...HighSchool Already 115 kids rated only a few committed

I'm talking 1-129... Take away school named and conference affiliations it would look totally different.

(02-18-2015 07:32 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:58 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 12:58 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  I would say that is incorrect. There is an unmistakable correlation. It may not be exact, and it may not always be right, but there is a trend for sure. If you're struggling to find something with less meaning, try your hand at the conference preseason coaches poll and see which one is more accurate at season's end.

Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

Most of the top kids are rated well before committing and or signing a LOI. So not really and it still does not change the fact that four and five star kids have a higher draft %. Nor does it change the fact unless you have multiple top ten classes you likely did not win a NC recently. These rankings are not the end all be all but the folks that say they are meaningless are dead wrong.

2016
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...HighSchool 995 kids already rated only a handful already committed
2017
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Footbal...HighSchool Already 115 kids rated only a few committed

I agree...not meaningless. Its easy to see a talented football player with all the skill set and physical attributes. Mostof these 5 star and high 4 star guys are easy most the time to figure. There are more than a few times though where the 5 star guy is looked at so highly because of his physical attributes and they just look past his flaws as a football player, then you get a bust. Meaningless.....No, but most coaches worth their salt dont use these rankings to recruit players, unless they are full up and or lose a guy late on signing day and need to find a spot to fill. Its when you get in to the 3 star and below where you have to be good at seeing a player for what hes worth. I think most 5 star guys have maturated much faster and have a skill set unique compared to their peers. Us Sunbelt folks get some good 3 star guys that end up maturing into a 4 and even a 5 star caliber player at times. The staffs that find a good group of these kinds will end up having good teams that will sometimes beat the Florida States of football. GS did it with FCS players. Go figure!

(02-19-2015 01:44 PM)eagle9098 Wrote:  

(02-18-2015 07:32 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:58 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 12:40 PM)JCGSU Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 01:22 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Definitely a correlation at the higher level. But correlation is not causation. It also gets fuzzier at our end of the spectrum.

No doubt but when it comes to winning NC's you better have multiple top ten classes recently or your chances of winning one are near 0%. At the top your coaching staff and player development are probably top notch as well. As you go down the list of course the correlation is going to get weaker and weaker as the kids are more raw and or undersized and coaching quality and player development is going to be all over the place. Also, I would imagine coaching turnover is a lot higher at our end.

Also when it comes to the NFL once again of course there are ton more three stars because there is only a handful five star kids versus thousands of three star kids. However the rankings hold some water as kids that are rated five stars have the highest draft percentage out of any group.

Take the school names away and rank on pure evaluation, it would look totally different... Totally different

Most of the top kids are rated well before committing and or signing a LOI. So not really and it still does not change the fact that four and five star kids have a higher draft %. Nor does it change the fact unless you have multiple top ten classes you likely did not win a NC recently. These rankings are not the end all be all but the folks that say they are meaningless are dead wrong.

2016
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Footbal...HighSchool 995 kids already rated only a handful already committed
2017
http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Footbal...HighSchool Already 115 kids rated only a few committed

I agree...not meaningless. Its easy to see a talented football player with all the skill set and physical attributes. Mostof these 5 star and high 4 star guys are easy most the time to figure. There are more than a few times though where the 5 star guy is looked at so highly because of his physical attributes and they just look past his flaws as a football player, then you get a bust. Meaningless.....No, but most coaches worth their salt dont use these rankings to recruit players, unless they are full up and or lose a guy late on signing day and need to find a spot to fill. Its when you get in to the 3 star and below where you have to be good at seeing a player for what hes worth. I think most 5 star guys have maturated much faster and have a skill set unique compared to their peers. Us Sunbelt folks get some good 3 star guys that end up maturing into a 4 and even a 5 star caliber player at times. The staffs that find a good group of these kinds will end up having good teams that will sometimes beat the Florida States of football. GS did it with FCS players. Go figure!

Some 5 star players are helped by the fact that they come from reputable high schools. Some high schools around the country have college level facilities and training staffs to get players prepared sooner. It's the guys from the small schools that are often overlooked or given 2 or 3 stars because they may be undersized or are from an unknown football program. A year of college strength and conditioning can mean a world of difference to some of these athletes.