http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/a...96387.html

Heard about this today and found it interesting. Apparently our friends up the road on 64 have decided to start paying their athletes stipends (men's and women's basketball only). It seems like this will quickly become the norm. The NCAA states that while it's not mandated for teams to do so, it's certainly permissible.

What is W&M's position? How will this affect future recruiting, if at all? Will providing stipends be necessary to keep teams "relavant?"

Just the first step of many to separate the haves from the have nots. If you have the $$$ you can buy your way to championships. Most will not be able to afford it.

BBall now, then FB & all the rest.

UR has the $$$ not sure where VCU plans to come up with it ?

2-4K does not sound like much until you add it up (remember with Title 9 you have to be "equal" for men & women)

Even so, it's not a ton of money. If each team has 13 players, it's around 75k a year. Granted, if we wanted to do this for football, or all sports, it'd be a lot more. I'm not sure if the CAA has ruled on if teams can do this or not, but it's an avenue I wouldn't be against

(01-23-2015 11:13 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  2-4K does not sound like much until you add it up (remember with Title 9 you have to be "equal" for men & women)

Not on a stipend, that is how the football powers are going to get around title IX. You only have to pay a stipend to both, the $$ amounts are irrelevant. (this is how it was explained t me)

Otherwise a field hockey player is getting the same $$ as a football player and that is simply not going to work, since one sport produces about 80% of the revenue for a AD, and the other produces 0%.

(01-24-2015 06:34 AM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 11:13 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  2-4K does not sound like much until you add it up (remember with Title 9 you have to be "equal" for men & women)

Not on a stipend, that is how the football powers are going to get around title IX. You only have to pay a stipend to both, the $$ amounts are irrelevant. (this is how it was explained t me)

Otherwise a field hockey player is getting the same $$ as a football player and that is simply not going to work, since one sport produces about 80% of the revenue for a AD, and the other produces 0%.

Sorry I don't buy it. There are many dynamics around such funding. Who gets what/how much & who decides. Where do you get the $$$.

VA state schools will not get it from student fees (several bills in the current legislative session to limit fees, especially athletics-probaly won't pass this time). A 2M endowment will generate 90,000 per year (which is more than 3 full in-state scholarships).

The academics will cry foul. While Title 9 may or may not drive the decision but you can bet the women will get their "fair" share (which I support).

As I said I believe this will be a big step in separating schools with $$$ from the rest. And I believe W&M will be way behind or opt not to buy in.

If the CAA allows it will set up a two tiered conference-schools who can fund it & the rest. Pretty hard to recruit against a school that offers another 2-5K bump for 4 years.

Football would need around 200K per year (3K per) to fund it. That would need an endowment of around $5,000,000 to cover it. The numbers get real big real quick. UR & NOVA could do this-not sure about the others.

Yeager is quoted in today's RTD that the CAA football schools have no interest in providing stipends. Also noted that FCS in general doesn't really need this. Happen to agree there.

Meanwhile, this escalation now puts increased pressure on low end FBS. Latest news now that Kent of the MAC is now doing a full review of their sports program. Speculation is this is a set-up to possibly drop football like UAB.

Key question is basketball. VCU and UR were mentioned yesterday as participating with stipends. I assume the CAA schools could vote to do same while leaving football alone.

There is still a lot of uncertainty on how that is gong to be structured, will it be across the board or will you be able to pick and choose which teams fall under the guideline. The announcement by UR and VCU was for the MBB and WBB only. Those are the only two squads that will be promised the stipend. So, 30 players at $2,000 to $4000 a year is $60,000 to $120,000 a year bump in budget. Many schools will be able to manage that.

Yeager also stated yesterday that CAA football schools will probably not join in. Recruiting in football is not head to head with upper schools, like it is in basketball, so the need to sway a recruit with the stipend is not as great. That will not be the case in basketball, where, over the next three to four years, I think, most schools will see the need to include the stipend for those two teams.


Sitting Bull, great minds think alike...at the same time.

(01-24-2015 09:17 AM)billymac Wrote:  There is still a lot of uncertainty on how that is gong to be structured, will it be across the board or will you be able to pick and choose which teams fall under the guideline. The announcement by UR and VCU was for the MBB and WBB only. Those are the only two squads that will be promised the stipend. So, 30 players at $2,000 to $4000 a year is $60,000 to $120,000 a year bump in budget. Many schools will be able to manage that.

Yeager also stated yesterday that CAA football schools will probably not join in. Recruiting in football is not head to head with upper schools, like it is in basketball, so the need to sway a recruit with the stipend is not as great. That will not be the case in basketball, where, over the next three to four years, I think, most schools will see the need to include the stipend for those two teams.

Sitting Bull, great minds think alike...at the same time.

Even if you can limit it to BBall $100,000 every year will not be easy for W&M. As stated earlier you need a $2M endowment to cover it. I am not sure the AD could add on another 100,000 each year to be raised. There are years they have trouble meeting current needs. And schools continue to raise tuition like it is unlimited :<(

I agree with you 65, I just think that the pressure to keep up may become the driving force that makes them find a way to get it done. It will be interesting over the next couple years to see what happens, on our level, with this stipend issue.

Trick is to recruit local players. St.John's could send several of its players travel expenses with two subway tokens to each player!

Also, how can a school pay it to basketball and.or football players and not to other scholarship players in other sports? Would create lots of problems.

(01-24-2015 08:41 AM)wanm65 Wrote:  

(01-24-2015 06:34 AM)Paulbintheburg Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 11:13 PM)wanm65 Wrote:  2-4K does not sound like much until you add it up (remember with Title 9 you have to be "equal" for men & women)

Not on a stipend, that is how the football powers are going to get around title IX. You only have to pay a stipend to both, the $$ amounts are irrelevant. (this is how it was explained t me)

Otherwise a field hockey player is getting the same $$ as a football player and that is simply not going to work, since one sport produces about 80% of the revenue for a AD, and the other produces 0%.

Sorry I don't buy it. There are many dynamics around such funding. Who gets what/how much & who decides. Where do you get the $$$.

VA state schools will not get it from student fees (several bills in the current legislative session to limit fees, especially athletics-probaly won't pass this time). A 2M endowment will generate 90,000 per year (which is more than 3 full in-state scholarships).

The academics will cry foul. While Title 9 may or may not drive the decision but you can bet the women will get their "fair" share (which I support).

As I said I believe this will be a big step in separating schools with $$$ from the rest. And I believe W&M will be way behind or opt not to buy in.

If the CAA allows it will set up a two tiered conference-schools who can fund it & the rest. Pretty hard to recruit against a school that offers another 2-5K bump for 4 years.

Football would need around 200K per year (3K per) to fund it. That would need an endowment of around $5,000,000 to cover it. The numbers get real big real quick. UR & NOVA could do this-not sure about the others.

The 5M endowment for FB did not include parity for women. Worse case is that you would need 10,000,000 to endow it!

And all of a sudden you are at 40% of what we are paying to upgrade Zable.

I got curious as to stipends, and the impact they might have on Virginia schools, especially in the shadow of HB 1897.
Title IX will be a factor with respect to stipends as well.

UR ($2.02 billion) is 2nd only to UVA ($6.4 billion) with respect to endowment; so we know it has money.
As a private, like Liberty, it UR is not subject to HOUSE BILL NO. 1897.

I think I am correct here, as to the student fee structure as of 2013 and subsequent impact of the Cox Bill.

Impacted football schools (70%), are not likely to have any extra money for stipends.
JMU would be reduced by $111 from $1,234 to $1,123 (79% currently)
NSU would be reduced $154.5 from $1,545 to 1,391 (80% currently)
ODU is currently at $1361 (73%), but has 10 years to achieve 55%.

Impacted non football schools schools (78%) would probably be strained.
GMU would be reduced by $31 from $523 to $492 (84% currently)
Longwood would be reduced by $65 from $1,828 to $1,763 (87% currently)
Radford would be reduced by $81 from $1,150 to $1069 (85% currently)
I think GMU will have problems with stipends.

Non impacted schools (below the 20%, 70%, or 78% thresholds) may or may not b e able to absorb stipends. The highlighted schools below probably have no real issues, but I know little of the others including W&M's financial situation.
VMI $1,576
W&M $1,575
]UVA Wise $1,403
CNU $1,387
Va State $887
VCU $697
UVA $657
VT $273
UMW $135

Certainly VCU would have little or no problem with stipends, and likely that money would come from donations anyway. I was stunned to see that VCU's endowment is now $1.33 billion. That places it as the number two public in Va behind UVA, and number four overall - behind UVA, UR, and W&L($1.35).

http://www.schev.edu/Reportstats/Tuition....pdf?from=

It will get interesting when the concept of football stipends rears it's head.

(01-24-2015 04:09 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I got curious as to stipends, and the impact they might have on Virginia schools, especially in the shadow of HB 1897.
Title IX will be a factor with respect to stipends as well.

UR ($2.02 billion) is 2nd only to UVA ($6.4 billion) with respect to endowment; so we know it has money.
As a private, like Liberty, it UR is not subject to HOUSE BILL NO. 1897.

I think I am correct here, as to the student fee structure as of 2013 and subsequent impact of the Cox Bill.

Impacted football schools (70%), are not likely to have any extra money for stipends.
JMU would be reduced by $111 from $1,234 to $1,123 (79% currently)
NSU would be reduced $154.5 from $1,545 to 1,391 (80% currently)
ODU is currently at $1361 (73%), but has 10 years to achieve 55%.

Impacted non football schools schools (78%) would probably be strained.
GMU would be reduced by $31 from $523 to $492 (84% currently)
Longwood would be reduced by $65 from $1,828 to $1,763 (87% currently)
Radford would be reduced by $81 from $1,150 to $1069 (85% currently)
I think GMU will have problems with stipends.

Non impacted schools (below the 20%, 70%, or 78% thresholds) may or may not b e able to absorb stipends. The highlighted schools below probably have no real issues, but I know little of the others including W&M's financial situation.
VMI $1,576
W&M $1,575
]UVA Wise $1,403
CNU $1,387
Va State $887
VCU $697
UVA $657
VT $273
UMW $135

Certainly VCU would have little or no problem with stipends, and likely that money would come from donations anyway. I was stunned to see that VCU's endowment is now $1.33 billion. That places it as the number two public in Va behind UVA, and number four overall - behind UVA, UR, and W&L($1.35).

http://www.schev.edu/Reportstats/Tuition....pdf?from=

It will get interesting when the concept of football stipends rears it's head.

Look, don't just show up here spouting your thoughts...either have facts and data or don't come around at all !!!

(01-24-2015 04:53 PM)Tribal Wrote:  

(01-24-2015 04:09 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  I got curious as to stipends, and the impact they might have on Virginia schools, especially in the shadow of HB 1897.
Title IX will be a factor with respect to stipends as well.

UR ($2.02 billion) is 2nd only to UVA ($6.4 billion) with respect to endowment; so we know it has money.
As a private, like Liberty, it UR is not subject to HOUSE BILL NO. 1897.

I think I am correct here, as to the student fee structure as of 2013 and subsequent impact of the Cox Bill.

Impacted football schools (70%), are not likely to have any extra money for stipends.
JMU would be reduced by $111 from $1,234 to $1,123 (79% currently)
NSU would be reduced $154.5 from $1,545 to 1,391 (80% currently)
ODU is currently at $1361 (73%), but has 10 years to achieve 55%.

Impacted non football schools schools (78%) would probably be strained.
GMU would be reduced by $31 from $523 to $492 (84% currently)
Longwood would be reduced by $65 from $1,828 to $1,763 (87% currently)
Radford would be reduced by $81 from $1,150 to $1069 (85% currently)
I think GMU will have problems with stipends.

Non impacted schools (below the 20%, 70%, or 78% thresholds) may or may not b e able to absorb stipends. The highlighted schools below probably have no real issues, but I know little of the others including W&M's financial situation.
VMI $1,576
W&M $1,575
]UVA Wise $1,403
CNU $1,387
Va State $887
VCU $697
UVA $657
VT $273
UMW $135

Certainly VCU would have little or no problem with stipends, and likely that money would come from donations anyway. I was stunned to see that VCU's endowment is now $1.33 billion. That places it as the number two public in Va behind UVA, and number four overall - behind UVA, UR, and W&L($1.35).

http://www.schev.edu/Reportstats/Tuition....pdf?from=

It will get interesting when the concept of football stipends rears it's head.

Look, don't just show up here spouting your thoughts...either have facts and data or don't come around at all !!!

As stated in the article, this is just the begining with more benefits to follow. So it is only going to get much worse with an arms race in stipends and other benefits. If permissible (and it probably isn't) I would like to see FCS ban stipends, but even that won't stiop the other Div I sports from being at a disadvantage without stipends. Current UD Pres Harker stated in an interview last year that UD would drop all sports in lieu of paying athletes.

These proposed stipends are one more step toward the end of the NCAA as we have known it and the secession of the P5 schools. From here it is possible to see the end of amateur athletics at the post secondary school level, if allowed to go forward unchecked.

This is going to be a nightmare for many schools
As we know, UR and VCU have already committed to basketball stipends.
http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/a...96387.html

Under the proposed Cox legislation, W&M, like VCU, is under the cap and can likely afford the 2 - 4 thousand per student with just a slight increase in student athletic fees. VCU now has a huge endowment of $1.33 million as well.
However, as currently written, ODU will have to cut just under $1 million off student fees in July, and JMU over $2 million.
We are going to have a tough time even with basketball.
GMU will have trouble as well, as it is over the cap and is greatly under the donation level it should be.


Here is where it could get interesting for W&M:

Quote:Members around FCS football are keeping a close eye on this movement.
North Dakota State athletic director Matt Larsen told the Fargo Forum newspaper last week that NDSU is looking into providing the additional cost of attendance for its football players -- a large undertaking considering the sheer number of scholarships in the sport, as well as the Title IX match that accompanies it.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/u...ns-answers

This would literally create a tier within a tier at the FCS level. In Va, wealthy privates, like Liberty and UR will be able to "play", but schools like JMU and W&M likely will not; largely due to the proposed Cox legislation.

At the FBS level there will be three tiers created, P5, G5 w/stipends, G5 wo/stipends.

If WM wants to commit to athletics, I think we could afford stipends for football. Our general endowment is 800 million, which is more comparable to a private institution or a large flagship school than most public FCS/G5 schools.

That said, I don't know much about the Cox legislation, so that could become an obstacle

78 since you seem to be the expert across a few boards on this piece of legislation, what are the chances it gets to a vote and passes? We all know that there are tons of pieces of legislation out there that never get voted on or never pass.

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604....sum+HB1897

Passed the House on 1/23 with a vote of 97Yes 0No

http://lis.virginia.gov/cgi-bin/legp604....l+HB1897H2