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Should #3 be retired ?
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Post: #1
Should #3 be retired ?
With this being Marcus' final season there has to be discussion, or there should be about putting 3 in the rafters of The Kap . Do you think he has earned the highest honor a player can receive ?
I think he should since he should barring an injury easily pass Keith Ceplicki and John Lowenhaupt career scoring totals and could end up being the career leader. Granted the former players did not have a 3pt shot and did not play with a shot clock, but the game has many more athletes now, also. Marcus has been a class act his whole career and hopefully will add a Player of the Year tile .

Just a topic to kick around on a cold January
01-09-2015 05:53 PM
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mrjoolius Online
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Post: #2
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
Barring the unthinkable, Marcus should finish as the all time leading scorer and will lead W&M to its 1st CAA title & NCAA tournament appearance :-) ... Hopefully.

It will probably occur a couple years after he graduates, but I think it definitely happens. Lord knows we could use more banners in our empty rafters.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2015 06:21 PM by mrjoolius.)
01-09-2015 06:19 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
I saw pretty much every game for Lowenhaupt and Cieplicki. I would put Marcus' #3 on a banner for sure.

Funny thing is that Tarpey was very similar to Lowenhaupt regarding build, intensity, etc., but John was a player who could score when we needed it and did so often. Just a little extra is all that differentiates the two. John was our leading rebounder at 6'5" and lit it up from the perimeter and got a lot of points around the basket.

I don't think we'll see Terry's banner after next year, but after Elon I can only hope he continues with that type of performance.
01-09-2015 07:25 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
The answer is YES and we should do it after our last home game.
01-09-2015 09:04 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
An emphatic YES from me. He'll get a banner in Kaplan even if I have to make it and hang it myself
01-09-2015 11:50 PM
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Post: #6
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
There is no doubt that Thornton's #3 will one day be retired and hang from the rafters at Kaplan. The only question is when; my own guess is two-four years after he graduates
when a major ceremony can be held...not the year his W&M career ends.

By the way...men and women's basketball are the only sports at W&M where numbers are retired...a strange fact. There is an unusual exception, perhaps unique at W&M from any other university: In football, The great W&M two-way guard and 1942 first team AP All-American, Gerrard "Buster" Ramsey on W&M's greatest football team, wore #20. Since
his last game in 1942 no W&M football player has ever worn Number 20...to this day.
It has never been officially retired and hangs nowhere, but it is a fact no coach has ever issued it to a player since Ramsey last played.

Perhaps when the revitalized Zable Stadium open in 2016 it would be an appropriate time
on opening day to officially retire it.

In my opinion he and Jeff Cohen are the two greatest players in W&M history.

Three years ago Bill Chambers, Cohen's coach at William and Mary, was guest at a small luncheon held at W&M Hall to which I was invited and, in response to questions from some of us, spoke at length about Cohen. He said that Cohen, who was 6-8 and weighed about 235 pounds, was the best rebounder he ever saw and called him fearless and extremely physical, able to jump like a man several inches taller with long, powerful arms.

Chambers said that Cohen scored many points on rebound putbacks, but noted that he also had a deadly hook shot and, surprising to us, a very good outside shot that today would be three-point shots. I also remember Bill saying that Cohen was tireless on the court, had very good speed for his size, and that he rarely took him out of close games for a breather, claiming that Cohen never got tired. He also said Cohen was best in the biggest games
and that if he had played for a big-time team in a big conference he would be remembered today as one of the top players of his time.

Perhaps some of this was his old coach pumping up his one-time star player, but I went into the record books and found some stunning figures that support Chambers' claims.

First of all, he scored 2003 points in 103 games (19.4 ppg in an era in which there was no 3-point shot) and had an astounding mark of 1679 rebounds. That's 16.3 rebounds a game!!
Even if you throw out a third of them considering the more liberal rebound rules of the era,
that's still close the 12 rebounds a game! So Cohen, in effect, averaged well over a double double every game of his career on average!

He is one of just a handful of players in college basketball players to score 2000+ points and 1500+ rebounds in career

He also had some incredible individual game performances-

*In a game where W&M snapped a West Virginia 57-game Southern Conference winning streak (an era when WVa had Jerry West) at the old Norfolk Arena, a game where West scored 44 points, Cohen scored 38 points and had 24 rebounds.

*In the Southern Conference Tourney Semi-Final a year later in Richmond, Cohen again scored 38 points with 22 rebounds, again defeating the Mountaineers and this time snapping
a fifteen game Tourney winning streak

*In his final home game at old Blow Gymnasium, Cohen scored 49 points, still the Tribe record, had 16 rebounds as W&M defeated Richmond.

*He was twice a Helms first-team All-American and never missed a game in his four years at W&M, playing and starting in 103 consecutive games.

These facts and figures, backed up by Bill Chambers' comments, are why I hold that Cohen
and Marcus Thornton are W&M's co-greatest players ever.

It would be appropriate that, when the day comes, Marcus' #3 should be put up right next to
Jeff Cohen's #52.
01-10-2015 08:13 AM
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Post: #7
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
Does W&M have any bylaws about retiring jerseys?

Davidson requires the individual being honored to have graduated from the school. Two all-time greats, Mike Malloy and Steph Curry left prior to graduating. Steph was only in school for 3 years and came back during the NBA lockout and took some classes, but he still needs a few classes and Davidson has strict limits on credits from other institutions, particularly your last credits. Malloy left after 4 years on campus without a degree and never tried to complete. He died too young just a few years ago, and is honored with an endowed basketball scholarship in his name and a plaque/display in the gym lobby, but his jersey will never be retired. There is endless debate on the Davidson board about these two individuals. I think Steph will figure out a way to graduate and get his jersey retired. The fact he came back during the lockout should count for a lot.
01-10-2015 09:42 AM
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Tribe Fan Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
Lowenhaupt and Cieplicki numbers were retired their last home games .
01-10-2015 10:23 AM
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62Indian Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
(01-10-2015 08:13 AM)BigTribe Wrote:  There is no doubt that Thornton's #3 will one day be retired and hang from the rafters at Kaplan. The only question is when; my own guess is two-four years after he graduates
when a major ceremony can be held...not the year his W&M career ends.

By the way...men and women's basketball are the only sports at W&M where numbers are retired...a strange fact. There is an unusual exception, perhaps unique at W&M from any other university: In football, The great W&M two-way guard and 1942 first team AP All-American, Gerrard "Buster" Ramsey on W&M's greatest football team, wore #20. Since
his last game in 1942 no W&M football player has ever worn Number 20...to this day.
It has never been officially retired and hangs nowhere, but it is a fact no coach has ever issued it to a player since Ramsey last played.

Perhaps when the revitalized Zable Stadium open in 2016 it would be an appropriate time
on opening day to officially retire it.

In my opinion he and Jeff Cohen are the two greatest players in W&M history.

Three years ago Bill Chambers, Cohen's coach at William and Mary, was guest at a small luncheon held at W&M Hall to which I was invited and, in response to questions from some of us, spoke at length about Cohen. He said that Cohen, who was 6-8 and weighed about 235 pounds, was the best rebounder he ever saw and called him fearless and extremely physical, able to jump like a man several inches taller with long, powerful arms.

Chambers said that Cohen scored many points on rebound putbacks, but noted that he also had a deadly hook shot and, surprising to us, a very good outside shot that today would be three-point shots. I also remember Bill saying that Cohen was tireless on the court, had very good speed for his size, and that he rarely took him out of close games for a breather, claiming that Cohen never got tired. He also said Cohen was best in the biggest games
and that if he had played for a big-time team in a big conference he would be remembered today as one of the top players of his time.

Perhaps some of this was his old coach pumping up his one-time star player, but I went into the record books and found some stunning figures that support Chambers' claims.

First of all, he scored 2003 points in 103 games (19.4 ppg in an era in which there was no 3-point shot) and had an astounding mark of 1679 rebounds. That's 16.3 rebounds a game!!
Even if you throw out a third of them considering the more liberal rebound rules of the era,
that's still close the 12 rebounds a game! So Cohen, in effect, averaged well over a double double every game of his career on average!

He is one of just a handful of players in college basketball players to score 2000+ points and 1500+ rebounds in career

He also had some incredible individual game performances-

*In a game where W&M snapped a West Virginia 57-game Southern Conference winning streak (an era when WVa had Jerry West) at the old Norfolk Arena, a game where West scored 44 points, Cohen scored 38 points and had 24 rebounds.

*In the Southern Conference Tourney Semi-Final a year later in Richmond, Cohen again scored 38 points with 22 rebounds, again defeating the Mountaineers and this time snapping
a fifteen game Tourney winning streak

*In his final home game at old Blow Gymnasium, Cohen scored 49 points, still the Tribe record, had 16 rebounds as W&M defeated Richmond.

*He was twice a Helms first-team All-American and never missed a game in his four years at W&M, playing and starting in 103 consecutive games.

These facts and figures, backed up by Bill Chambers' comments, are why I hold that Cohen
and Marcus Thornton are W&M's co-greatest players ever.

It would be appropriate that, when the day comes, Marcus' #3 should be put up right next to
Jeff Cohen's #52.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that Jeff Cohen's number was not "retired" until 25 years after he had graduated and left W&M.
01-10-2015 10:26 AM
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SoCal Frank Offline
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Post: #10
Should #3 be retired ?
The absence of banners hanging from the rafters at Kaplan is striking.
01-10-2015 12:03 PM
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NC Tribe Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
The silliest jersey retirement I know of is a the university of Texas, which retired Kevin Durant's jersey after he played there one season. I wonder if he even completed the spring semester?

If W&M retired jerseys at the players last game, I guess graduation isn't a requirement.
01-10-2015 12:58 PM
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LeadBolt Online
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Post: #12
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
I like the idea of a player needing to graduate to have their jersey retired. I believe that it is in keeping with the character of the College. No doubt that Marcus should have his jersey retired as should Cohen. I leave the timing of these events to those with a better idea of how these things will have the maximum positive impact than I possess.
01-10-2015 01:25 PM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #13
Re: RE: Should #3 be retired ?
(01-10-2015 01:25 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I like the idea of a player needing to graduate to have their jersey retired. I believe that it is in keeping with the character of the College. No doubt that Marcus should have his jersey retired as should Cohen. I leave the timing of these events to those with a better idea of how these things will have the maximum positive impact than I possess.

I see your point but I think Marcus would feed off the honor and carry that fire throughtout the CAAT. He'd be nearly unstoppable...I think he likes recognition and likes living up to accolades even more.
01-10-2015 01:38 PM
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RE: Should #3 be retired ?
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(01-10-2015 12:03 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  The absence of banners hanging from the rafters at Kaplan is striking.

No post season tourneys = no banners ....

Ga. Tech requires a player to graduate before their number is retired and I saw a story on John Sally and how important it was for him to to graduate . Sure, he wanted his jersey hung but he wanted the degree !
01-10-2015 03:40 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
Jeff was gone by then also. He died of cancer before he turned 40. His fraternity brothers and friends made a case for the jersey retirement. He pretty much disappeared from Williamsburg once he left college. He was absolutely the best player ever for the Tribe. He was also the most mean and nasty player ever with the Tribe. I wouldn't say he played dirty, but those who played against him might have.

I think that Thornton has the most skills of anyone ever to play in Williamsburg and has the most long term NBA upside.


(01-10-2015 10:26 AM)62Indian Wrote:  
(01-10-2015 08:13 AM)BigTribe Wrote:  There is no doubt that Thornton's #3 will one day be retired and hang from the rafters at Kaplan. The only question is when; my own guess is two-four years after he graduates
when a major ceremony can be held...not the year his W&M career ends.

By the way...men and women's basketball are the only sports at W&M where numbers are retired...a strange fact. There is an unusual exception, perhaps unique at W&M from any other university: In football, The great W&M two-way guard and 1942 first team AP All-American, Gerrard "Buster" Ramsey on W&M's greatest football team, wore #20. Since
his last game in 1942 no W&M football player has ever worn Number 20...to this day.
It has never been officially retired and hangs nowhere, but it is a fact no coach has ever issued it to a player since Ramsey last played.

Perhaps when the revitalized Zable Stadium open in 2016 it would be an appropriate time
on opening day to officially retire it.

In my opinion he and Jeff Cohen are the two greatest players in W&M history.

Three years ago Bill Chambers, Cohen's coach at William and Mary, was guest at a small luncheon held at W&M Hall to which I was invited and, in response to questions from some of us, spoke at length about Cohen. He said that Cohen, who was 6-8 and weighed about 235 pounds, was the best rebounder he ever saw and called him fearless and extremely physical, able to jump like a man several inches taller with long, powerful arms.

Chambers said that Cohen scored many points on rebound putbacks, but noted that he also had a deadly hook shot and, surprising to us, a very good outside shot that today would be three-point shots. I also remember Bill saying that Cohen was tireless on the court, had very good speed for his size, and that he rarely took him out of close games for a breather, claiming that Cohen never got tired. He also said Cohen was best in the biggest games
and that if he had played for a big-time team in a big conference he would be remembered today as one of the top players of his time.

Perhaps some of this was his old coach pumping up his one-time star player, but I went into the record books and found some stunning figures that support Chambers' claims.

First of all, he scored 2003 points in 103 games (19.4 ppg in an era in which there was no 3-point shot) and had an astounding mark of 1679 rebounds. That's 16.3 rebounds a game!!
Even if you throw out a third of them considering the more liberal rebound rules of the era,
that's still close the 12 rebounds a game! So Cohen, in effect, averaged well over a double double every game of his career on average!

He is one of just a handful of players in college basketball players to score 2000+ points and 1500+ rebounds in career

He also had some incredible individual game performances-

*In a game where W&M snapped a West Virginia 57-game Southern Conference winning streak (an era when WVa had Jerry West) at the old Norfolk Arena, a game where West scored 44 points, Cohen scored 38 points and had 24 rebounds.

*In the Southern Conference Tourney Semi-Final a year later in Richmond, Cohen again scored 38 points with 22 rebounds, again defeating the Mountaineers and this time snapping
a fifteen game Tourney winning streak

*In his final home game at old Blow Gymnasium, Cohen scored 49 points, still the Tribe record, had 16 rebounds as W&M defeated Richmond.

*He was twice a Helms first-team All-American and never missed a game in his four years at W&M, playing and starting in 103 consecutive games.

These facts and figures, backed up by Bill Chambers' comments, are why I hold that Cohen
and Marcus Thornton are W&M's co-greatest players ever.

It would be appropriate that, when the day comes, Marcus' #3 should be put up right next to
Jeff Cohen's #52.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that Jeff Cohen's number was not "retired" until 25 years after he had graduated and left W&M.
01-10-2015 03:59 PM
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RE: Should #3 be retired ?
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(01-10-2015 12:03 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  The absence of banners hanging from the rafters at Kaplan is striking.

No post season tourneys = no banners ....

Ga. Tech requires a player to graduate before their number is retired and I saw a story on John Sally and how important it was for him to to graduate . Sure, he wanted his jersey hung but he wanted the degree !
01-10-2015 04:54 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
(01-10-2015 12:03 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  The absence of banners hanging from the rafters at Kaplan is striking.

Depressing is a better description.

Think about before that NIT appearance in 2010 (or whenever it was).
01-12-2015 09:22 AM
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RE: Should #3 be retired ?
NIT in 1983 as well

A journey of a 1,000 miles begins with one step...

The Tribe takes a big step in Charm City in March!

Go Tribe!
01-12-2015 10:50 AM
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RE: Should #3 be retired ?
(01-12-2015 10:50 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  NIT in 1983 as well

A journey of a 1,000 miles begins with one step...

The Tribe takes a big step in Charm City in March!

Go Tribe!

I'm looking at booking a trip to B'more for the tourney. I see that the Sheraton where there seemed to be a bunch of Tribe supporters gathered last year, is now the Baltimore Harbor Hotel. Is that still the place to stay to see other Tribesters this year?
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2015 11:33 AM by LeadBolt.)
01-12-2015 11:32 AM
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BigTribe Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Should #3 be retired ?
Looking again as to just how good Jeff Cohen was, the NCAA Record Book shows that Cohen was one of only NINE Division I players in the entire history of basketball to score 2000+ points and 1500+ rebounds.

Nine, that's it!

Most read like an all-star basketball team and all but three are in the College Basketball HOF
(and one of those, Tim Duncan, is a shoo-in).

The list is comprised of Cohen, Dickie Hemrik of Wake Forest, Tom Gola of LaSalle, Elgin Baylor of Seattle, Joe Holup of George Washington, Ralph Sampson of UVA, Derick Coleman of Syracuse, and Malik Rose of Drexel.
01-12-2015 01:21 PM
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