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Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
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jhawkmvp Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
I know, but OU needs one of Texas or OSU in their conference ideally. If OSU separates, then OU will want to be in a conference with Texas to maintain their OOC scheduling flexibility. Both schools being scheduled OOC in a conference with 9 conference games would limit them to one flexible game each year. The Texas/OU game will not go anywhere due to the money it brings to both schools; however, OU needs to be in a conference with an 8 game schedule, if they separate from both, if they want more than 1 flex game each year. That is good news for the SEC and B1G, if they do not go to 9 like the B12 and PAC. But in the end they would prefer both just for more scheduling flexibility (3-4 games free instead of 1-2).
01-19-2015 11:12 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-19-2015 11:12 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  I know, but OU needs one of Texas or OSU in their conference ideally. If OSU separates, then OU will want to be in a conference with Texas to maintain their OOC scheduling flexibility. Both schools being scheduled OOC in a conference with 9 conference games would limit them to one flexible game each year. The Texas/OU game will not go anywhere due to the money it brings to both schools; however, OU needs to be in a conference with an 8 game schedule, if they separate from both, if they want more than 1 flex game each year. That is good news for the SEC and B1G, if they do not go to 9 like the B12 and PAC. But in the end they would prefer both just for more scheduling flexibility (3-4 games free instead of 1-2).

If the Big 12 folds, I really don't ever see Oklahoma in the PAC or ACC. Therefore if the choice is between the Big 10 and the SEC I like our chances due to geography and culture, not to mention ties to Texas at least through A&M and likely a second Texas school whether that school is Texas or not. I also agree that should the Sooners come to the SEC it likely will involve OSU as well.
01-19-2015 11:56 PM
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mac6115cd Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
I don't see the Big12 folding - they're making too much money. UT and OU own the Big12, so why would they leave to make less money and have less power in another conference?
01-20-2015 01:16 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
Look up UT's home conference schedule from this year and next year.

Now realize it will NEVER be any better than that but prices for season tickets continue to climb.

Now you'll understand all the grumbling coming out of Austin and the lack of a single sell out for a home conference game this year. The natives are growing restless with SWC 2.0
01-20-2015 05:36 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #45
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?
01-20-2015 06:55 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-19-2015 11:12 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  I know, but OU needs one of Texas or OSU in their conference ideally. If OSU separates, then OU will want to be in a conference with Texas to maintain their OOC scheduling flexibility. Both schools being scheduled OOC in a conference with 9 conference games would limit them to one flexible game each year. The Texas/OU game will not go anywhere due to the money it brings to both schools; however, OU needs to be in a conference with an 8 game schedule, if they separate from both, if they want more than 1 flex game each year. That is good news for the SEC and B1G, if they do not go to 9 like the B12 and PAC. But in the end they would prefer both just for more scheduling flexibility (3-4 games free instead of 1-2).

There are plenty of cupcake games in the Big Ten right? 07-coffee3

We are moving into a new age of college football. Having a strong OOC line up of Texas and Oklahoma State isn't a bad thing for Oklahoma. They could then play Tulsa or some smaller Texas schools with their final ooc match up. With that they will Never get dinged for their strength of schedule.

It is a new dawn in college football. Having OOC match ups with Oklahoma State and Texas isn't a bad deal.
01-20-2015 07:03 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?

What does Texas want? More scheduling flexibility with a greater National presence. When they left the SWC for The Big 12, that new conference had plenty of National credit. It had Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas. That threesome alone was massive back in the day. The time has come though for Texas to make another similar move for the same reason.

With a partial contract with the ACC, they will actually have more scheduling flexibility. They can do all the Texas scheduling that they do now while at the same time completely distancing themselves from the Midwest. That part of the Big 12 is the same to Texas now as were the more minor Universities that were part of the SWC.

If Texas truly was in it for the long haul with the Big 12, they would have already expanded.
01-20-2015 07:06 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-20-2015 01:16 PM)mac6115cd Wrote:  I don't see the Big12 folding - they're making too much money. UT and OU own the Big12, so why would they leave to make less money and have less power in another conference?

The whole "less power" argument is really quite ignorant, I'm sorry. I don't mean that as a personal attack because it isn't just you. It is a lot of people that think this. State some examples of how Texas has used it's power to control the Big 12. There are some very obvious examples of how Texas didn't get what they wanted in the Big 12 simply because they are Texas.

Texas has the capability to do whatever they want on their own. They don't need power. They simply need their ass covered politically within the State of Texas.
01-20-2015 07:08 PM
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jhawkmvp Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
H1 nailed it for the reasons Texas might leave the B12. Money is not an issue with Texas. Texas will leave the B12 if they feel they do not get the national exposure they covet. Exposure is the name of the game for Texas. Scheduling flexibility is all about exposure since it allows them to schedule games in areas they want more exposure or with schools that will get games in the national spotlight. They are also less than thrilled with the academic clout of the current conference, but that is a minor consideration. They see themselves (rightly so) as a national, even international brand and need exposure to maintain that brand.

The whole reason the B12 came into being in the first place was the SWC and Big 8 were too regional (lack of exposure) and were not seen as viable by the schools going forward. Schools in both were in talks with the PAC, B1G, and SEC before the B12 was formed because of this lack of viability. The old B12 fixed that, but the current B12 has shrunk back into a near regional conference. Some comparisons:

Original B12 (12 members): 3 national FB powers (UT, OU, NU), 7 AAU (UT, KU, ISU, MU, CU, NU, A&M), 8 state flagships (UT, KU, OU, MU, NU, CU, A&M - since TX is so large and A&M is a flagship level uni in a massive state)), 6 schools with MNC claims (UT, OU, NU, A&M, CU, even MU - they can claim a title or 2 using the loose standards many schools use), pop. of 50M living in its footprint.

Current B12 (10 members): 2 national FB powers (UT, OU), 3 AAU (UT, KU, ISU), 4 state flagships (UT, KU, OU, WVU), 3 schools with MNC claims (UT, OU, TCU), pop. 38M living in it's footprint (for comparison the old SWC 30M, old B8 22M).

I loved the old Big 8 and the original B12, but the current B12 is a shadow of the original. Texas, KU, and OU see that too. All the B12 schools that were attractive to other conferences and had no political hurdles to leaving (i.e. little brothers who might be relegated to the G5) left. UT, OU, and KU are hoping that the ACC gets raided so they get to vulture the remains, or some P5 schools in the PAC, SEC, or B1G get disgruntled and become available (Arkansas, LSU, and NU are mentioned on B12 forums often, but good luck with that happening). If that does not happen and the B12 struggles to get the exposure Texas and OU crave, then the B12 will cease to exist.

I don't think power will be a problem because Texas is pretty smart. They will get their power before they come to a conference. They will negotiate it all before they make a move. Whether that is the LHN getting some kind of conference network exemption or work around, multiple, handpicked B12 and/or TX partners coming along, partial independence, etc., they will get what they want because they bring the dollars with them to any conference they choose and most schools, unlike UT (and a few others), need the extra cash that comes with sharing a conference with Texas. Texas is not the demon they have been made out to be by the schools that left. Mostly they were a convenient scapegoat to sell the move to their fan bases and be an excuse for leaving behind many long term relationships from the B8 and SWC days. Schools move because the move is seen as benefiting the university, not because they did not like one school they shared a conference with, though that is a nice incidental bonus to leave that school behind I guess.

I think Texas would prefer to keep the B12 together if possible, but only if it can add some P5 schools to the mix (i.e. ACC gets raided and FSU and friends are available). If it becomes obvious the B12 can't expand with schools that Texas views as it's peers, both academically and athletically, and exposure continues to be a problem, the Longhorns will make a move.

IMO, it's all academic on the Texas part anyway. The school that will kill the B12 someday is OU. They have been seriously talking with the PAC, B1G and SEC for the last 5 years or so (Texas has talked too, but more on a lets see my options level) and are the most unhappy with the current B12. Their ties to OSU are the only reason they are still a B12 member since so far no conference has been willing to take just OU/OSU together. Once Boren is no longer OU president then they might be able to leave OSU behind if they want. Boren protects OSU because he was a U.S. senator from OK and he has a building named after him on the OSU campus. He is OK first, then OU. The next president is likely to be OU first, OK second.
(This post was last modified: 01-21-2015 01:40 AM by jhawkmvp.)
01-21-2015 01:15 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-20-2015 07:06 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?

What does Texas want? More scheduling flexibility with a greater National presence. When they left the SWC for The Big 12, that new conference had plenty of National credit. It had Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas. That threesome alone was massive back in the day. The time has come though for Texas to make another similar move for the same reason.

With a partial contract with the ACC, they will actually have more scheduling flexibility. They can do all the Texas scheduling that they do now while at the same time completely distancing themselves from the Midwest. That part of the Big 12 is the same to Texas now as were the more minor Universities that were part of the SWC.

If Texas truly was in it for the long haul with the Big 12, they would have already expanded.

I agree with this 100% and have said so as well. Their refusal to expand is an admission of their unhappiness with the Big 12. Two years ago I told some Big 12 posters on this board that if they didn't expand they were only biding their time for the best offer.
01-21-2015 04:47 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?
As small as it may seem, I think Texas wants close premier games against other national brand schools. Television already makes almost every game available for viewing. Brand name games will fill the stadium whether it is on television or not. That is why most schools with football cache will be playing more content games in the future. If they want to fill local hotels, sell concessions and product, and make local merchants happy and garner contributions for prime seating then they need at least 4 or 5 marquee games a year, and preferably most of those will be annual in conference games the road games of which are a reasonable driving distance from Austin. That is why I don't see Texas heading to the Big 10 or PAC unless there is a large block of Big 12 schools going with them. It is also why I think ultimately they will consider the SEC. An SEC West void of Alabama and Auburn, but containing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, and either Baylor or Texas Tech will make their schedule very very fan friendly. Those games are all a reasonable driving distance for Horn fans. Those games will sell premium seating in Austin and fill their hotels, bookstores, and restaurants. Those games make sense in a way that Oregon, Washington and U.C.L.A. don't, or for that matter Iowa, Nebraska, or Wisconsin. In the end these will be the things that all national brand schools will have to consider. The trick to making money in the future will be both having games that television covets but also games that fans want to attend.
01-21-2015 05:05 AM
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BewareThePhog Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-20-2015 05:36 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Look up UT's home conference schedule from this year and next year.

Now realize it will NEVER be any better than that but prices for season tickets continue to climb.

Now you'll understand all the grumbling coming out of Austin and the lack of a single sell out for a home conference game this year. The natives are growing restless with SWC 2.0
I'm certainly not going to say that UT's home slate is top-notch, but it's not all bad, either. I think the larger problem at the moment is not the fact that they're playing Kansas State rather than Arkansas or Missouri, but the fact that they're not beating Kansas State. (Although having both Kansas schools at home every other year is not ideal - it would be better for them to split those. The same is true of Baylor and TCU, both of whom have been good of late. Sure, it's good when they both come to town, but the years that they're both road games leaves a gap that the likes of KU can't fill.)

While it's good to have high quality opponents, the home team is always the primary draw. They can find ways to tweak the schedule (whether in-conference or with out-of-conference scheduling) but the first step in calming the natives will be putting up more W's. Once that happens, I think they'll be more concerned with who they're bringing in.
01-21-2015 05:17 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-15-2015 06:30 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-15-2015 03:47 PM)YNot Wrote:  Texas Tech is hoping to join the AAU ranks as soon as 2017. I very much believe that Texas Tech will be near the top of the list for both the PAC and the B1G.

I am positive that Texas Tech is working on their AAU credentials and they have the money to do so. I am equally certain that they will not make it by 2017, and it will be extremely difficult to make it by 2027 for that matter. I don't see them ever being a part of the Big 10. I could see them in the PAC.

Were the Big 10 to pursue 4 schools from the Big 12 three of them would be Kansas, Texas, and the only one that would be non AAU would be Oklahoma, and they aren't even close to Nebraska's research metrics and the Huskers lost their status. If those three wanted in and nobody else was available then maybe Iowa State gets a look, but before that happens I would bet on the Big 10 looking at Rice to solidify a hold in Texas and give the Horns a travel mate from their home state.

That said I don't ever see Texas choosing the Big 10.

We talk about this very thing a lot on our board ( [Image: rae.png] Rice). Since you mentioned us here, know that we have spent the last several seasons turning around our fortunes, have started to go to (and win) bowl games again after winning seasons, have announced significant new investments in facilities, have a new AD from Stanford who understands P5 athletics from the inside and how it can apply to Rice to position it for a call-up.

I know we didn't do so well in the Liberty Bowl last year against Miss. State, but they turned out to be more like the team they were this past season when we played them, and many of ya'll lost to them as well, so I don't feel as bad about that loss now.

I myself live in the Atlanta area and am surrounded by SEC and ACC schools and sports.

Here's a link to a similar discussion on our board if you'd care to comment: http://csnbbs.com/thread-724143-post-116...id11685871 Thank you.
01-22-2015 12:42 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
I wouldn't mind if Rice joined the Big Ten. I don't think it will happen but I absolutely wouldn't mind. After all, my favorite animal is the Owl.
01-22-2015 08:34 PM
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jhawkmvp Offline
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RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
I have been saying for awhile I see Rice as the 4th if KU, OU and Texas head to the B1G. ISU is AAU, but doubles up in Iowa and that is a money loser based on IA size. Texas (and probably OU as well) would want another Texas school (IMO) and none of their TX B12 brethern are AAU. Rice is academically stellar, AAU, and sits in Houston. B1G schools would love playing games in that recruiting grounds and having 2 TX schools means more opportunities for exposure in Texas period. Plus, the Rice FB team is competitive lately and would only get stronger support in a P5 conference. They have the rich alums to fund their AD if they wanted to compete with the big boys. Could play games in Reliant if needed against the big draws like tOSU and UM.
01-22-2015 11:59 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #56
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-21-2015 05:05 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?
As small as it may seem, I think Texas wants close premier games against other national brand schools. Television already makes almost every game available for viewing. Brand name games will fill the stadium whether it is on television or not. That is why most schools with football cache will be playing more content games in the future. If they want to fill local hotels, sell concessions and product, and make local merchants happy and garner contributions for prime seating then they need at least 4 or 5 marquee games a year, and preferably most of those will be annual in conference games the road games of which are a reasonable driving distance from Austin. That is why I don't see Texas heading to the Big 10 or PAC unless there is a large block of Big 12 schools going with them. It is also why I think ultimately they will consider the SEC. An SEC West void of Alabama and Auburn, but containing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, and either Baylor or Texas Tech will make their schedule very very fan friendly. Those games are all a reasonable driving distance for Horn fans. Those games will sell premium seating in Austin and fill their hotels, bookstores, and restaurants. Those games make sense in a way that Oregon, Washington and U.C.L.A. don't, or for that matter Iowa, Nebraska, or Wisconsin. In the end these will be the things that all national brand schools will have to consider. The trick to making money in the future will be both having games that television covets but also games that fans want to attend.

JR, I think that the SEC's best hope to add Texas would be as a partial member (similar to the set-up that Notre Dame has with the ACC).
01-23-2015 01:09 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-23-2015 01:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 05:05 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?
As small as it may seem, I think Texas wants close premier games against other national brand schools. Television already makes almost every game available for viewing. Brand name games will fill the stadium whether it is on television or not. That is why most schools with football cache will be playing more content games in the future. If they want to fill local hotels, sell concessions and product, and make local merchants happy and garner contributions for prime seating then they need at least 4 or 5 marquee games a year, and preferably most of those will be annual in conference games the road games of which are a reasonable driving distance from Austin. That is why I don't see Texas heading to the Big 10 or PAC unless there is a large block of Big 12 schools going with them. It is also why I think ultimately they will consider the SEC. An SEC West void of Alabama and Auburn, but containing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, and either Baylor or Texas Tech will make their schedule very very fan friendly. Those games are all a reasonable driving distance for Horn fans. Those games will sell premium seating in Austin and fill their hotels, bookstores, and restaurants. Those games make sense in a way that Oregon, Washington and U.C.L.A. don't, or for that matter Iowa, Nebraska, or Wisconsin. In the end these will be the things that all national brand schools will have to consider. The trick to making money in the future will be both having games that television covets but also games that fans want to attend.

JR, I think that the SEC's best hope to add Texas would be as a partial member (similar to the set-up that Notre Dame has with the ACC).

Unless ESPN did some seriously heavy leaning what you suggest would never happen. Partial memberships are anathema to the SEC. It violates all of our business models.
01-23-2015 05:39 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-23-2015 05:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-23-2015 01:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-21-2015 05:05 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-20-2015 06:55 PM)XLance Wrote:  As JR stated when the Texas issue is settled, realignment will be over.

So what does Texas want that they already don't get in the Big 12?
What would they be willing to give up to get something different?
As small as it may seem, I think Texas wants close premier games against other national brand schools. Television already makes almost every game available for viewing. Brand name games will fill the stadium whether it is on television or not. That is why most schools with football cache will be playing more content games in the future. If they want to fill local hotels, sell concessions and product, and make local merchants happy and garner contributions for prime seating then they need at least 4 or 5 marquee games a year, and preferably most of those will be annual in conference games the road games of which are a reasonable driving distance from Austin. That is why I don't see Texas heading to the Big 10 or PAC unless there is a large block of Big 12 schools going with them. It is also why I think ultimately they will consider the SEC. An SEC West void of Alabama and Auburn, but containing Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri, and either Baylor or Texas Tech will make their schedule very very fan friendly. Those games are all a reasonable driving distance for Horn fans. Those games will sell premium seating in Austin and fill their hotels, bookstores, and restaurants. Those games make sense in a way that Oregon, Washington and U.C.L.A. don't, or for that matter Iowa, Nebraska, or Wisconsin. In the end these will be the things that all national brand schools will have to consider. The trick to making money in the future will be both having games that television covets but also games that fans want to attend.

JR, I think that the SEC's best hope to add Texas would be as a partial member (similar to the set-up that Notre Dame has with the ACC).

Unless ESPN did some seriously heavy leaning what you suggest would never happen. Partial memberships are anathema to the SEC. It violates all of our business models.

Texas isn't really that valuable for the SEC. You guys already have The Aggies.

Texas has something that the ACC wants much more though.
01-23-2015 07:36 PM
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XLance Online
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RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
I can imagine that Texas is now shopping for their best opportunity. Maybe the highest bidder, maybe the best fit, could be the greatest exposure, it will be interesting to see where the Longhorns end up.
01-23-2015 08:49 PM
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RE: Things to Know about Any Future Realignment
(01-22-2015 11:59 PM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  I have been saying for awhile I see Rice as the 4th if KU, OU and Texas head to the B1G. ISU is AAU, but doubles up in Iowa and that is a money loser based on IA size. Texas (and probably OU as well) would want another Texas school (IMO) and none of their TX B12 brethern are AAU. Rice is academically stellar, AAU, and sits in Houston. B1G schools would love playing games in that recruiting grounds and having 2 TX schools means more opportunities for exposure in Texas period. Plus, the Rice FB team is competitive lately and would only get stronger support in a P5 conference. They have the rich alums to fund their AD if they wanted to compete with the big boys. Could play games in Reliant if needed against the big draws like tOSU and UM.

I would support it, if nothing else, to show that the Big Ten is not allergic to having another private school. Oh, and it would be nice to have another RU in the conference. 04-cheers


(01-22-2015 08:34 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I wouldn't mind if Rice joined the Big Ten. I don't think it will happen but I absolutely wouldn't mind. After all, my favorite animal is the Owl.

It would be a nice feather in the cap. 03-wink
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2015 02:31 AM by Transic_nyc.)
01-24-2015 02:30 AM
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