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Hail Indians Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
Cluley played great Saturday. We dropped the ball at key times (fumble on our own end and big dropped passes on 3rd downs in late Q3 and in Q4). QB play and game pan offensively were both good enough to win.
We went 7-5 in back to back seasons. PPG increased year over year. Points allowed increased as well.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 01:15 PM by Hail Indians.)
11-24-2014 01:14 PM
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Rocco Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.
11-24-2014 01:23 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
I really doubt we will be able to get more out of the passing game next season. Tre and Ballard will be very tough to replace
11-24-2014 01:32 PM
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Tribal Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
I'm not holding out hope for Mosley. 2 yrs to get right and we've seen zilch.
11-24-2014 01:34 PM
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Hail Indians Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?
11-24-2014 01:38 PM
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wml33t Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:38 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?

I think Cluley has a lot of room to grow, but I agree - I think he did get better as the season progressed. It may be an exaggeration to say he can "make all the throws", but really his "throwing" ability I don't think is the improvement he needs. I think where his growth will come is in reading the defense, progressing through his options, seeing the open man, etc.

I don't think there's anyone here that would say he can't "throw" - it's the mental parts of being a QB that he needs growth in. To his credit, I think he did grow this year in that area. That being said, I'd like to see some major leaps forward for next year. Maybe a year as the clear starter in the off-season (with hopefully someone pushing him enough for him to feel the sense of urgency) will do him some good.
11-24-2014 01:53 PM
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Sitting bull Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
I like the potential next year - starting with Cluley, Saboor and Luke on defense.

Would like to see us bring the tight end back to more frequent play.

On the WR - I think Desmond is huge for us as a returner. If we can find one other - which we always seem to - not fretting here.

I take it from everyone else the lines look good, both O and D.

With Rodes leading a LB corps - should still be ok.

Secondary looks solid.

Dorka is terrific so the kicking game looks solid.

The two big keys in my view are Cluley (who I think has two outstanding years ahead - will be a conference force next year) and
the defense (needs some attitude, intensity over this season).

Not sure how the schedule plays into all this. I think UR and Villanova (despite Robertson) fall back next year, JMU, Delaware and Stony Brook step up. Lafayette early on the road OOC will be important to win.
11-24-2014 01:56 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

How many drops did Cluley have out of those third downs? I can recall at least one. Cluley completed several nice medium range (10-20 yard throws) on Saturday and had 3-4 drops on very catchable balls. When the OL protects he can step into his throw with confidence and avoid sailing balls like he did some in previous games.

Only truly bad throw I recall from the whole evening, was the force to Reeves on 3rd and goal that was deflected and almost intercepted.
11-24-2014 01:59 PM
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Hail Indians Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:53 PM)wml33t Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:38 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?

I think Cluley has a lot of room to grow, but I agree - I think he did get better as the season progressed. It may be an exaggeration to say he can "make all the throws", but really his "throwing" ability I don't think is the improvement he needs. I think where his growth will come is in reading the defense, progressing through his options, seeing the open man, etc.

I don't think there's anyone here that would say he can't "throw" - it's the mental parts of being a QB that he needs growth in. To his credit, I think he did grow this year in that area. That being said, I'd like to see some major leaps forward for next year. Maybe a year as the clear starter in the off-season (with hopefully someone pushing him enough for him to feel the sense of urgency) will do him some good.

The throw at the 2:55 mark here is a dart...and the one at 3:56. Plenty of arm. That is what I meant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF59R2VmI...J3bP9zi-aA
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 02:03 PM by Hail Indians.)
11-24-2014 02:02 PM
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Hail Indians Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:59 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

How many drops did Cluley have out of those third downs? I can recall at least one. Cluley completed several nice medium range (10-20 yard throws) on Saturday and had 3-4 drops on very catchable balls. When the OL protects he can step into his throw with confidence and avoid sailing balls like he did some in previous games.

Only truly bad throw I recall from the whole evening, was the force to Reeves on 3rd and goal that was deflected and almost intercepted.

At least two big drops on 3rd down in the second half.
11-24-2014 02:05 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:34 PM)Tribal Wrote:  I'm not holding out hope for Mosley. 2 yrs to get right and we've seen zilch.

Count me as back on Team Jhalil! Having him healthy next year can only help
11-24-2014 02:05 PM
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WMTribe90 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:53 PM)wml33t Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:38 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?

I think Cluley has a lot of room to grow, but I agree - I think he did get better as the season progressed. It may be an exaggeration to say he can "make all the throws", but really his "throwing" ability I don't think is the improvement he needs. I think where his growth will come is in reading the defense, progressing through his options, seeing the open man, etc.

I don't think there's anyone here that would say he can't "throw" - it's the mental parts of being a QB that he needs growth in. To his credit, I think he did grow this year in that area. That being said, I'd like to see some major leaps forward for next year. Maybe a year as the clear starter in the off-season (with hopefully someone pushing him enough for him to feel the sense of urgency) will do him some good.

I agree here too. No doubt Cluley has plenty of arm strength and can make all the throws. No doubt he is a leader and tough-nosed kid. He improved his mastery of the offense over the season, but still has room to improve.

While he is fast in the open field, I'd like to him get better at feeling pressure and deciding when to take off. He also needs to get better at throwing the ball away before taking a big sack. I think this will come and hopefully the protection is better next year. I like that he didn't let all the contact rattle him.
11-24-2014 02:13 PM
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wml33t Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 02:02 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  The throw at the 2:55 mark here is a dart...and the one at 3:56. Plenty of arm. That is what I meant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF59R2VmI...J3bP9zi-aA

Gotcha - I agree with that.

The big thing from a "throwing" perspective that I think the coaches need to work with him is throws on the roll-out/run. His technique/footwork is just all wrong. Something that should be very coachable.
11-24-2014 02:17 PM
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Rocco Offline
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Post: #34
RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 01:38 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?

I thought he played really well for 2.5 quarters. The nice thing about sitting in the end zone is you can see how coverage sets up and see how plays unfold. Both TDs were nice throws. In the 3rd quarter he threw some really nice out/corner routes downfield. The INT was a horrible decision (1st down play so no need to gamble with good field position to throw to a well-covered receiver) and a bad throw (if he throws it to the back post either Ballard makes a great play or it falls OB; instead it was underthrown a little and Ballard had no chance). His receivers didn't help him a ton in the 3rd quarter, and he didn't look good when Richmond knew he had to throw. I think the dropped passes started to get into his head a little. Also looked like he missed a few open receivers down the field, though it's entirely possible he saw someone in coverage I didn't. I thought it was his best game since Villanova, which admittedly is a low bar to clear but there were positives. He hadn't unleashed many deep balls the last 3-4 games so it was nice to see him let a few fly downfield.

He can certainly make all the throws, he just can't make them consistently. One of the drops was a 90 mph fastball to the FB at short range. Should it have been caught? Yes. Could the throw have been a lot better? Absolutely. There's definitely been improvement. His completion % ticked up as the season went along and his YPA didn't drop dramatically. He also had some issues in identifying blitzers, which is normal for a young QB and fixable. He didn't throw many picks, which is impressive for a young QB. While I joke that the low INT rate is due to so many passes being thrown to nobody in particular, it's probably not a coincidence that the INT rates have dropped the last two years with Rogers at OC. He also survived the season, which is something no QB since Archer has done. You could make a decent argument that Cluley's season was the best for a W&M QB since Callahan in 2010, even better than Ortiz in 2012.

If the plan is to keep the offense in 2015 like it was in 2014, Cluley should be fine. He won't post a monster completion % but he should be around 60% or so with a good YPA. I'm worried more about his receivers. Ballard and McBride combined for 56% of all catches and 63% of the yards.
11-24-2014 02:20 PM
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zablenoise Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
I agree that Cluley has issues in the pocket with footwork and deciding when to throw the ball away. But I also think that he has a problem telegraphic his passes and failing to work through a progression of receivers. It often seemed like he locked into one guy and either forced the ball there or took a sack.
11-24-2014 02:20 PM
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Hail Indians Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 02:20 PM)Rocco Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:38 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 01:23 PM)Rocco Wrote:  I don't have the numbers for the entire season, but against Richmond Cluley was 2-7 passing on 3rd downs. The passing game this year worked when they threw on early downs or when they were able to get ahead of the chains and do play-action to set up Cluley's bombs. When in situations where he had to throw, he struggled. For the offense to really succeed next year they need to get more out of the passing game. Cluley throws a beautiful deep ball- they generally aren't Joe Flacco Specials where he heaves it and prays for his receiver to make a play, but are accurate tosses to receivers who have a step. He struggles with his accuracy when throwing underneath. While this offense can succeed as a run-heavy/play-action offense you'd like to see them not rely so much on deep bombs.

I have seen growth in the QB and thought he demonstrated on Saturday that he can make all the throws. No argument that he throws a beautiful deep ball. Have you seen improvement? I embrace the use of data but I also feel your eyes can tell you something. What did you see Saturday?

I thought he played really well for 2.5 quarters. The nice thing about sitting in the end zone is you can see how coverage sets up and see how plays unfold. Both TDs were nice throws. In the 3rd quarter he threw some really nice out/corner routes downfield. The INT was a horrible decision (1st down play so no need to gamble with good field position to throw to a well-covered receiver) and a bad throw (if he throws it to the back post either Ballard makes a great play or it falls OB; instead it was underthrown a little and Ballard had no chance). His receivers didn't help him a ton in the 3rd quarter, and he didn't look good when Richmond knew he had to throw. I think the dropped passes started to get into his head a little. Also looked like he missed a few open receivers down the field, though it's entirely possible he saw someone in coverage I didn't. I thought it was his best game since Villanova, which admittedly is a low bar to clear but there were positives. He hadn't unleashed many deep balls the last 3-4 games so it was nice to see him let a few fly downfield.

He can certainly make all the throws, he just can't make them consistently. One of the drops was a 90 mph fastball to the FB at short range. Should it have been caught? Yes. Could the throw have been a lot better? Absolutely. There's definitely been improvement. His completion % ticked up as the season went along and his YPA didn't drop dramatically. He also had some issues in identifying blitzers, which is normal for a young QB and fixable. He didn't throw many picks, which is impressive for a young QB. While I joke that the low INT rate is due to so many passes being thrown to nobody in particular, it's probably not a coincidence that the INT rates have dropped the last two years with Rogers at OC. He also survived the season, which is something no QB since Archer has done. You could make a decent argument that Cluley's season was the best for a W&M QB since Callahan in 2010, even better than Ortiz in 2012.

If the plan is to keep the offense in 2015 like it was in 2014, Cluley should be fine. He won't post a monster completion % but he should be around 60% or so with a good YPA. I'm worried more about his receivers. Ballard and McBride combined for 56% of all catches and 63% of the yards.

Very fair. That's pretty consistent with what I saw too, though not from the endzone. It looks like he's looking for somewhere to fall when they blitz us sometimes, but that is a product of 1 - pass pro problems all year and 2- lack of experience.

I think he will continue to get better and will give us a chance to win. Love the toughness and durability.
11-24-2014 02:35 PM
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hktribefan Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
Did I hear/see right that Christian Brumbaugh was with the seniors on Saturday night? If so, I guess he is opting to graduate?
11-24-2014 02:35 PM
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)hktribefan Wrote:  Did I hear/see right that Christian Brumbaugh was with the seniors on Saturday night? If so, I guess he is opting to graduate?

Yes he did walk with his fellow seniors, but in the past there have been many who walked on what was their real senior day but still came back for the 5th year.
11-24-2014 02:57 PM
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Rocco Offline
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  Very fair. That's pretty consistent with what I saw too, though not from the endzone. It looks like he's looking for somewhere to fall when they blitz us sometimes, but that is a product of 1 - pass pro problems all year and 2- lack of experience.

I think he will continue to get better and will give us a chance to win. Love the toughness and durability.

Looking for a place to fall is an improvement from the beginning of the year when he would stand in the pocket and wait to get murdered.

I'd like to see a few more screens to help the offense next year. RB screens, not the garbage bubble screens to receivers. It would help take pressure off the line. I'd also humbly request no more Wildcat in the red zone.
11-24-2014 02:58 PM
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RE: 2015 Tribe Football
(11-24-2014 02:58 PM)Rocco Wrote:  
(11-24-2014 02:35 PM)Hail Indians Wrote:  Very fair. That's pretty consistent with what I saw too, though not from the endzone. It looks like he's looking for somewhere to fall when they blitz us sometimes, but that is a product of 1 - pass pro problems all year and 2- lack of experience.

I think he will continue to get better and will give us a chance to win. Love the toughness and durability.

Looking for a place to fall is an improvement from the beginning of the year when he would stand in the pocket and wait to get murdered.

I'd like to see a few more screens to help the offense next year. RB screens, not the garbage bubble screens to receivers. It would help take pressure off the line. I'd also humbly request no more Wildcat in the red zone.

There are a few things I'd like to see with variety in the passing game to help Cluley out.

- More screens when teams blitz
- Seam routes
- Slants

For some reason the last several years it has seemed like W&M forgot what a seam and a slant are. They just don't seem to be in the playbook, but should be staples of a ball-control, take a shot here and there offense.
11-24-2014 03:06 PM
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