I feel like Withers basically is more enthralled with establishing his way of doing things, his system, his scheme, his recruits....than he is with winning games this season. He pretty much said this in the presser when he said you don't build a culture with left over guys, you do it with freshman.

That may be true ideally, but college coaches with far less have managed to get the most out of their inherited roster amidst transitioning.

In a 3-4 defense, you have to have a beast nose tackle, and some hybrid linebackers who can disguise coverages by both standing up and lining up. With our roster, if you just line up 3-4, and play straight up, you get the defensive disaster we have at the moment.

Withers should be laying the foundation for future success. We are right where a lot of us thought we'd be in terms of record after 3 games at 2-1. Hopefully the team shows improvement over the course of the season, wins enough games to qualify for the playoffs, and peaks at the right time into December.

Lots of football left.

I'll take some lumps this year as long as we show improvement week to week.

Offensively, we seem to be improving.

Defensively, we're struggling.

MM coached teams had a habit or regressing over the last few years, and especially 2013.

David Cutcliffe at Duke took Wither's approach. Seems to have worked well.

While I agree that our run defense $uck$, I also say that had we not been absolutely terrible against UMD, many of us would simply be shaking our heads after the past two weeks rather than going for the jugular.

I'm okay with his philosophy. He's building the program by his standard and not buckling to what he's hearing from fans. He believes his system works, so I say give him time to make it work. I'll admit I was in the crowd of expecting dramatic results starting from week 1, but looking back that was completely unrealistic.
We have a young team on the field with Withers playing 18 freshmen. Vad is essentially a freshmen playing an offense he's still learning(according to Withers).
We have been seeing results. We're 2-1... exactly where we should be at this point. We're second in the league in first downs ( behind Richmond). We've made adjustments during the game that have actually made a difference.
It's a work in progress.

I agree I'm willing to take some lumps along the way if we are making positive progress. My only take was that unlike Cutcliffe as someone mentioned, our cupboard isn't completely bare like Duke's was.

Hopefully the process pays dividends.

Open up the playbook!

We need to pass less!

This approach is in my opinion the right way to go. The 18 Freshman/R-Freshman should continue to improve each week and will give us the foundation we need for sustained success. It will make for a frustrating season, but as long as we see improvement week to week, I will be on board. This is going to be the hardest game we will play this season. I expect us to lose, but our schedule following this game is not brutal. UD, Albany, Towson, UNCC, Stony Brook, and Elon all have major weaknesses. I expect us to be able to win those games. We have William and Mary at home, which is a winnable game. Our only remaining true challenge would be Richmond on the road.

So as our team continues to grow, I think we have a very realistic shot at finising 8-4, which would put us in the playoffs.

Again the cupboard was not bare when he got here. Use your assets


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(09-18-2014 10:13 AM)jmusuperfan Wrote:  Again the cupboard was not bare when he got here. Use your assets


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Could not agree more...+100

Yes, the cupboard was not bare, but he wants to grow his guys to build the foundation for the system he wants to play. The experience they will gain this year will pay huge dividends down the road. Whether I agree with all that Withers is doing or not, he is being consistent to what he said he would do. I think it will result in a short term hit, but a long term gain. The biggest question I have is if they lose more games this season than expected, will the Dukes be able to keep the top notch recruits they have landed to date?

High risk, high reward. That is Coach Withers.

What is refreshing is seeing in game adjustments. You learned to not ever expect that from Mickey teams and that is why the games became so unwatchable.
Yes we should be coming out strong, but again, hasn't happened consistently since 2008 anyways.

The cupboard may not have been bare, but it wasn't near full either. It isn't like we went 13-1 last year and 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs. We went 6-6 for a reason. We lost an All-American linebacker whose leadership is probably missed as much as his athleticism. Changing defensive schemes (particularly if there is a move from 4-3 to 3-4 or the like) will take time because the personnel is not in place to make it happen quickly.

Get realistic. We haven't been a consistent powerhouse. I don't know that we ever will be. I don't understand the level of gloom and doom on this board. I understand some of the frustration after a 2-1 start. But, some of it is just overboard and unrealistic. Enjoy the football season while it's here. Come June or July next year, you'll be dying for it to be here. Stop and smell the roses in the here and now. We are not that bad. We are in a transition. We could be very good by December.

(09-18-2014 06:24 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  The cupboard may not have been bare, but it wasn't near full either. It isn't like we went 13-1 last year and 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs. We went 6-6 for a reason. We lost an All-American linebacker whose leadership is probably missed as much as his athleticism. Changing defensive schemes (particularly if there is a move from 4-3 to 3-4 or the like) will take time because the personnel is not in place to make it happen quickly.

Get realistic. We haven't been a consistent powerhouse. I don't know that we ever will be. I don't understand the level of gloom and doom on this board. I understand some of the frustration after a 2-1 start. But, some of it is just overboard and unrealistic. Enjoy the football season while it's here. Come June or July next year, you'll be dying for it to be here. Stop and smell the roses in the here and now. We are not that bad. We are in a transition. We could be very good by December.

Nicely put. Refreshingly level-headed.

(09-18-2014 06:24 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  The cupboard may not have been bare, but it wasn't near full either. It isn't like we went 13-1 last year and 2 or 3 rounds into the playoffs. We went 6-6 for a reason. We lost an All-American linebacker whose leadership is probably missed as much as his athleticism. Changing defensive schemes (particularly if there is a move from 4-3 to 3-4 or the like) will take time because the personnel is not in place to make it happen quickly.

Get realistic. We haven't been a consistent powerhouse. I don't know that we ever will be. I don't understand the level of gloom and doom on this board. I understand some of the frustration after a 2-1 start. But, some of it is just overboard and unrealistic. Enjoy the football season while it's here. Come June or July next year, you'll be dying for it to be here. Stop and smell the roses in the here and now. We are not that bad. We are in a transition. We could be very good by December.

I think most CAA coaches would tell you that JMU's talent was never the issue.

Nonetheless, we lost a lot to graduation and transfer. Withers can clearly recruit, and I am ok with him playing youth if it helps us in the long term.

Several people have mentioned 18 Fr/RFr like it's something out of the ordinary. It's not that much. I looked at last years 2 deep for the TU game and there was 15 Fr/RFr listed on there, and that didn't include Taylor Reynolds, who makes 16. And there might have been a couple of others not listed on that 2 deep who had played during the season.

This past spring & summer was a bunch of talk about a special 9-10 win regular season with a playoff run. Now a lot of the same people are saying Withers needs a season to grow a foundation, mold the program, growing pains, could be a rough season, etc. etc. We'll, I don't recall hearing this on here this past spring & summer. Sounds like people are coming up with excuses if JMU falls short this season. Remember, JMU 1st yr under Alex Wood went to the playoffs. 1st yr under MM went to playoffs. And those were 16 team playoffs, not 24.

(09-18-2014 11:52 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Several people have mentioned 18 Fr/RFr like it's something out of the ordinary. It's not that much. I looked at last years 2 deep for the TU game and there was 15 Fr/RFr listed on there, and that didn't include Taylor Reynolds, who makes 16. And there might have been a couple of others not listed on that 2 deep who had played during the season.

This past spring & summer was a bunch of talk about a special 9-10 win regular season with a playoff run. Now a lot of the same people are saying Withers needs a season to grow a foundation, mold the program, growing pains, could be a rough season, etc. etc. We'll, I don't recall hearing this on here this past spring & summer. Sounds like people are coming up with excuses if JMU falls short this season. Remember, JMU 1st yr under Alex Wood went to the playoffs. 1st yr under MM went to playoffs. And those were 16 team playoffs, not 24.

The human being is special. Aren't you glad we aren't robots built with programmed and predetermined thoughts? Wait just a minute....

(09-18-2014 11:52 PM)BDKJMU Wrote:  Several people have mentioned 18 Fr/RFr like it's something out of the ordinary. It's not that much. I looked at last years 2 deep for the TU game and there was 15 Fr/RFr listed on there, and that didn't include Taylor Reynolds, who makes 16. And there might have been a couple of others not listed on that 2 deep who had played during the season.

This past spring & summer was a bunch of talk about a special 9-10 win regular season with a playoff run. Now a lot of the same people are saying Withers needs a season to grow a foundation, mold the program, growing pains, could be a rough season, etc. etc. We'll, I don't recall hearing this on here this past spring & summer. Sounds like people are coming up with excuses if JMU falls short this season. Remember, JMU 1st yr under Alex Wood went to the playoffs. 1st yr under MM went to playoffs. And those were 16 team playoffs, not 24.

Can't speak for the others, but I pegged us at 8-4... http://csnbbs.com/thread-697102.html ...including losses at Maryland, win at Lehigh, win over STFU, and loss at Villanova...hopefully the Dukes will pull an upset tomorrow. But, if we don't, not all is lost. 8-4/6-2 is still very doable.

And how were the Alex Wood years after that 1st year? What about MM almost getting fired in 2003 before the 2004 run?

I'm ok with an off year if it is really rebuilding. That term doesn't have to mean that everyone is new/young, but indeed there are many new and/or young players on the roster. As long as the team is moving forward consistently, then this hire will be considered a success. We won't know if that is the case until there is a greater body of work to show for it, maybe 3-4 years. My hope is that JMU has committed to Withers and vice versa. OC/DC must also produce. I think the relative youth in the coaching staff is more relevant than the talent/youth of our players.

Too many saw some great PR from Withers in Spring/Summer and got all enamored with the new coach and raised expectations because he says all the right things (which is great!). But taking that to the field and performing is entirely different. The team will be ok. We took for granted the kind of defense MM was able to create year after year. He was the same great defensive coach at Georgia and Marshall. We knew what we bought. Withers is a bit more unknown, unproven. His teams have historically given up a lot of yards and regressed - BDK pointed this out several times at the time of hire. However, he has also been a part of winning teams/organizations. This is playing out a bit right now, and in the short run I expect the D to continue to struggle, our offense to improve, and our records to remain above average in the conference.

Hopefully he picked the right coaching team and those "players" will develop and contribute as much as our student athletes.