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XLance Offline
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Post: #61
RE: SEC raided
(09-22-2014 10:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I really don't think Florida State wants to be in the SEC. They don't have to look very far away to see how Florida is faring. Certainly there is an upside for Florida in the SEC but oh boy that downside....Florida State doesn't really have that in the ACC and yet they can recruit whomever they want at this point.

There isn't really any reason for Florida State to join the SEC.

I absolutely could see why Virginia Tech might be interested IF the SEC would allow for a "northern" division. Otherwise they should fear that their program would go down the road of that which Tennessee has trod upon.

North Carolina State would be perfect for the SEC. They don't really have all that much to lose but being THE SEC University in the State of North Carolina would be big for them.

The only two ACC schools that would ever "fit" in the SEC would be Florida State and Louisville.
09-28-2014 03:06 PM
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USAFMEDIC Offline
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Post: #62
RE: SEC raided
(09-28-2014 03:06 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-22-2014 10:13 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I really don't think Florida State wants to be in the SEC. They don't have to look very far away to see how Florida is faring. Certainly there is an upside for Florida in the SEC but oh boy that downside....Florida State doesn't really have that in the ACC and yet they can recruit whomever they want at this point.

There isn't really any reason for Florida State to join the SEC.

I absolutely could see why Virginia Tech might be interested IF the SEC would allow for a "northern" division. Otherwise they should fear that their program would go down the road of that which Tennessee has trod upon.

North Carolina State would be perfect for the SEC. They don't really have all that much to lose but being THE SEC University in the State of North Carolina would be big for them.

The only two ACC schools that would ever "fit" in the SEC would be Florida State and Louisville.

I would add Clemson.
09-29-2014 03:27 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #63
RE: SEC raided
I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.
09-29-2014 07:18 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #64
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.
09-29-2014 07:27 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #65
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.

Well, it's not that I think Texas is a terrible fit with the SEC. It's just that I think they have the cloud, as you admit, to be able to decide. You know my opinion, when this goes down, most of the Big 12 schools wont get much say and the other Major Conferences will all have to compromise rather than only being ok with their ideal scenario.

Texas on the other hand is the point man that has to approve any major plan first. If they don't approve they can easily get enough votes with them to vote down any dissolution vote. That means Texas will have their choice and that means it isn't likely that they ever end up in the SEC. They really don't want that kind of competition week in and week out right now. They couldn't handle it. It seems they have only known how to recruit amazing athletes with extremely fragile ego's. They get so many great athletes that they forget the rule about having too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. A coach like Saban knows how to handle that problem. Strong inherited his, that makes it much more difficult.

For Texas, ACC competition makes for a much better result. I think they look at the Florida State situation and it becomes obvious for them what route they would rather go. It is a regular thing in the SEC for very good teams to end up crumbling under the pressure and competition of an SEC season.
09-29-2014 07:46 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #66
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.

If ESPN wanted to create THE SUPER conference they would just add Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas (minus one eastern team) to the SEC.
The money would just roll in. But that won't happen, because it wouldn't last.
09-29-2014 07:47 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #67
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.

If ESPN wanted to create THE SUPER conference they would just add Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas (minus one eastern team) to the SEC.
The money would just roll in. But that won't happen, because it wouldn't last.

ESPN doesn't want A Super Conference. They want multiple Super conferences AND they want parity in order to best monetize college football across the entire country.
09-29-2014 07:50 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #68
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.

If ESPN wanted to create THE SUPER conference they would just add Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas (minus one eastern team) to the SEC.
The money would just roll in. But that won't happen, because it wouldn't last.

That's a possible outcome, but not a likely one. There is going to be brokered market sharing and possibly the emergence of two 18 school conferences between the ACC and SEC to accommodate the politics of the move if there is a move at all. I hate to bring it up again, and I know you agree, but the 3 x 5 is looking better all of the time. But to land the right Big 12 schools safely in the ESPN family we could still see a 3 x 6 for each emerge.
09-29-2014 07:55 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #69
RE: SEC raided
(09-29-2014 07:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:27 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-29-2014 07:18 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  I know XLance disagrees but I do think Virginia Tech fits with the SEC, I also think they fit in just fine with the Big Ten though so take my opinion with a grain of salt. If Texas A&M can fit in the SEC then so can Tech. I don't see why North Carolina State wouldn't fit. If South Carolina fits now, then there is no reason why NC State wouldn't end up being a good fit.

It's the same kind of stuff that Longhorn fans throw around H1. They cannot conceive of a universe in which they are not the center of it. The simple truth is that they will wind up where they can make the most money and that will be where ESPN tells them to go. That said, Texas still has the most individual clout with which to buck the system. We'll see.

If ESPN wanted to create THE SUPER conference they would just add Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas (minus one eastern team) to the SEC.
The money would just roll in. But that won't happen, because it wouldn't last.

That's a possible outcome, but not a likely one. There is going to be brokered market sharing and possibly the emergence of two 18 school conferences between the ACC and SEC to accommodate the politics of the move if there is a move at all. I hate to bring it up again, and I know you agree, but the 3 x 5 is looking better all of the time. But to land the right Big 12 schools safely in the ESPN family we could still see a 3 x 6 for each emerge.

There is so much upside to 3X5, but two 18 team conferences just sows the seeds for four 9 team conferences a few years down the road.
09-29-2014 08:15 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: SEC raided
Most of the 'fit' issues have to due with market penetration and capitalization more than anything else. Half of the ACC would fit just fine in the SEC while the other half would be comfortable in the B1G. The SEC West would be a great addition for the B12 while the SEC East would do wonders for the ACC. The northern half of the B12 seems like a no brainer for the B1G while the southern B12 to the SEC would create a juggernaut of a conference.

And while I like the idea of 3x5, I'm only a fan of it for the SEC and ACC. I'm not well versed enough about the B1G rivalries and general needs to knows if going to 15 would help or hurt the B1G. Maybe H1 could fill us in. But 15 resolves the scheduling issues associated with 14 teams with minimum disruption while simultaneously creating a conference playoff. It also allows for a shorter interval between rotating through all the teams.

That being said, 15 teams doesn't allow for a reduction in superconferences. At least not without some current P5 teams deciding that the current game is too rich for their blood and dropping out. And despite whatever lofty ideals Duke, Wake and Northwestern may have about themselves, all they have to do is look at Rice for an example of what happens to exposure outside of the P5 cartel.
09-30-2014 08:05 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #71
RE: SEC raided
(09-28-2014 10:28 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  SEC North
Virginia Tech
NC State
Kentucky
Missouri
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Arkansas
South Carolina

SEC South
Texas A&M
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Florida

Crossovers:
Alabama-Tennnessee
Georgia-South Carolina
Texas A&M-Missouri
LSU-Arkansas
Mississippi State-Kentucky
Mississippi-Vanderbilt
Auburn-NC State
Florida-Virginia Tech

Arkansas would be the hardest case in a North-South split given the age of the rivalries with both Texas A&M and LSU. Florida and Auburn would probably also not be as excited about this lineup, and LSU would still whine about being in the "group of death". The North Division schools would probably love this alignment with the possible exception of South Carolina, who loses Florida as a division rival.

If you hardly ever play any of the schools in the other division, why are you a conference?

Why not 4 divisions? Have the two best division winners play for the conference championship.

SEC North
Virginia Tech
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC WEST
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri

SEC CENTRAL
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn

SEC SOUTH
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
NC State

Crossovers:
Alabama-Tennessee
Georgia-Auburn
Texas A&M-South Carolina
LSU-Florida
Mississippi-Vanderbilt
NC State-Virginia Tech
Mississippi State-Arkansas
Missouri-Kentucky

3 games against your division, 1 permanent cross-over, then 4 games rotating through the remaining 11 teams. Play EVERYONE in conference at least once every 2-3 years.
09-30-2014 03:56 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #72
RE: SEC raided
(09-30-2014 03:56 PM)YNot Wrote:  
(09-28-2014 10:28 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  SEC North
Virginia Tech
NC State
Kentucky
Missouri
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Arkansas
South Carolina

SEC South
Texas A&M
LSU
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn
Georgia
Florida

Crossovers:
Alabama-Tennnessee
Georgia-South Carolina
Texas A&M-Missouri
LSU-Arkansas
Mississippi State-Kentucky
Mississippi-Vanderbilt
Auburn-NC State
Florida-Virginia Tech

Arkansas would be the hardest case in a North-South split given the age of the rivalries with both Texas A&M and LSU. Florida and Auburn would probably also not be as excited about this lineup, and LSU would still whine about being in the "group of death". The North Division schools would probably love this alignment with the possible exception of South Carolina, who loses Florida as a division rival.

If you hardly ever play any of the schools in the other division, why are you a conference?

Why not 4 divisions? Have the two best division winners play for the conference championship.

SEC North
Virginia Tech
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

SEC WEST
Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri

SEC CENTRAL
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Alabama
Auburn

SEC SOUTH
Georgia
Florida
South Carolina
NC State

Crossovers:
Alabama-Tennessee
Georgia-Auburn
Texas A&M-South Carolina
LSU-Florida
Mississippi-Vanderbilt
NC State-Virginia Tech
Mississippi State-Arkansas
Missouri-Kentucky

3 games against your division, 1 permanent cross-over, then 4 games rotating through the remaining 11 teams. Play EVERYONE in conference at least once every 2-3 years.

There are rules currently limiting a conference to two divisions. That means a new rule would be required for going to four divisions. The way around that would be to use four pods that you intermix in order to have ever changing divisions that are defined as two divisions but schedule much like how four divisions would.

That is an old talking point though. Now that we have autonomy, it should be much easier for folks to realize that rule changes will be easier to make. If they can pass a rule for four divisions then I am sure they can pass one to extend the Conference Championship to a four team Conference Tournament that takes the winners of each of the four divisions.
09-30-2014 06:26 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #73
SEC raided
The only way I could see 15 working for the Pac 12 is if one "North", "South", and "East" school all become Pac-15 material. Boise State would be the choice for the North; either Nevada, UNLV, or Hawaii for the South; and New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, or UTEP for the East (although a Central Time Zone school like Kansas or Texas could work there as well if the Pac could pull it off). Aside from reeling in another P5 school, all of the candidates are a generation away from being Pac 12 material.
10-05-2014 02:40 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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RE: SEC raided
(10-05-2014 02:40 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way I could see 15 working for the Pac 12 is if one "North", "South", and "East" school all become Pac-15 material. Boise State would be the choice for the North; either Nevada, UNLV, or Hawaii for the South; and New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, or UTEP for the East (although a Central Time Zone school like Kansas or Texas could work there as well if the Pac could pull it off). Aside from reeling in another P5 school, all of the candidates are a generation away from being Pac 12 material.

So in a word: no.
10-06-2014 07:09 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #75
RE: SEC raided
(10-05-2014 02:40 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way I could see 15 working for the Pac 12 is if one "North", "South", and "East" school all become Pac-15 material. Boise State would be the choice for the North; either Nevada, UNLV, or Hawaii for the South; and New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, or UTEP for the East (although a Central Time Zone school like Kansas or Texas could work there as well if the Pac could pull it off). Aside from reeling in another P5 school, all of the candidates are a generation away from being Pac 12 material.

In order for the PAC to expand beyond their current membership, they must add TEXAS. In order to get Texas, the PAC will have to give up at least partial ownership of their network to ESPN.
Let me repeat that .....no Texas...no PAC expansion. PAC network ownership to ESPN=Texas to the PAC.
10-06-2014 07:21 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #76
RE: SEC raided
(10-06-2014 07:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(10-05-2014 02:40 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way I could see 15 working for the Pac 12 is if one "North", "South", and "East" school all become Pac-15 material. Boise State would be the choice for the North; either Nevada, UNLV, or Hawaii for the South; and New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, or UTEP for the East (although a Central Time Zone school like Kansas or Texas could work there as well if the Pac could pull it off). Aside from reeling in another P5 school, all of the candidates are a generation away from being Pac 12 material.

In order for the PAC to expand beyond their current membership, they must add TEXAS. In order to get Texas, the PAC will have to give up at least partial ownership of their network to ESPN.
Let me repeat that .....no Texas...no PAC expansion. PAC network ownership to ESPN=Texas to the PAC.
Bingo! And I would only add that even if the PAC was willing to relinquish a percentage of ownership in the PACN to ESPN that Texas is going to very likely to insist upon at least three traveling companions, perhaps as many as 5, so that they can keep many of their minor sports regional. And that will prove to be dicey with regard to monetary split in the PAC. So Texas to the PAC doesn't work on many levels, but the biggest hurdle is ESPN gaining an interest in the PACN.
10-06-2014 08:17 AM
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YNot Offline
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Post: #77
RE: SEC raided
(10-05-2014 02:40 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way I could see 15 working for the Pac 12 is if one "North", "South", and "East" school all become Pac-15 material. Boise State would be the choice for the North; either Nevada, UNLV, or Hawaii for the South; and New Mexico, Colorado State, Wyoming, or UTEP for the East (although a Central Time Zone school like Kansas or Texas could work there as well if the Pac could pull it off). Aside from reeling in another P5 school, all of the candidates are a generation away from being Pac 12 material.

Boise has a small market - 265K TV households - #109 in the country. It is close enough to Washington St., Utah, and the Oregon schools to be an interesting fit.

Las Vegas already has a bunch of PAC 12 fans, but having a local PAC 12 team in Vegas would put UNLV towards the top of the list, IMO.

Albuquerque is actually a decent market - 680K TV households - #47 in the country - about 40K fewer than Vegas. New Mexico is in a good location to develop some rivalries with Colorado, Utah, and the Arizona schools. It could serve as a decent bridge to Texas Tech (5 hour drive) then to Texas (6 hours from Lubbock).

Colorado St. and Wyoming don't really bring anything not already provided by U of Colorado.

But, as mentioned, Boise St., UNLV, and New Mexico would have a lot of work to do. New Mexico is the closest from an institutional perspective. But the football program needs a ton of work. Boise St. and UNLV have a long way to go academically.

New Mexico would be a great fit if they can figure football out.
10-07-2014 12:26 PM
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