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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
We had a fencing team at one time.
Could just build a huge sand box on the quad.
Still think we are stretching ourselves too thin with official sports.
09-08-2014 06:05 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #22
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 03:45 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 10:34 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 06:54 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Darcie was making $139,000 and her girlfriend / assistant coach (it's a well know fact) was making $86,000. I think $225,000 in a town where the medium household income is a little less than $50,000 is a significant amount of money to toss away.

I don't know what professors make at App on average, but a WBB coach that, yes, had success, but also had low attendance to pull in that amount and the asst pull in $86,000 is just way too much in my view. I think every coach makes to much, but for what is a very low revenue sport, that is just too much in my view.

I am guessing Title IX, which I support, plays some role in pay equity between WBB and MBB. If that is the case, then lower the MBB coaches salary for all of I care. They make too much as well.

In comparison to the rest of the SB our basketball coaches make far from too much. We ain't in Kansas anymore. I'd be more inclined to reduce the ridiculous number of sports we sponsor and fold that into the programs. Not just to afford FBS, but to be able to hire quality coaches and pay them in comparable to what their peers make.

Here's a little FYI for you. Baseball coach Billy Jones is making $90K, his top assistant $40K and the other $30K. The Dugout Club was formed several years ago by former coach Chris Pollard to fund expenses outside the budget, not salaries. The baseball staff also buys and sells their own apparel and concessions. Girlfriends of the players work the concession & souvenir stands. Two years ago Cobb cut the baseball budget by the amount of $'s brought in by these. In 2013-14 the baseball program generated more revenue than the mens and womens basketball teams COMBINED. This spring Cobb informed coach Jones he would be taking ALL the money generated by the concession and souvenir sales AND the Dugout Club donations and folding it into the general athletic budget. Considering the differences in salaries and revenue generated between baseball and the basketball staff's Billy Jones was not a very happy camper. Its a good bet he would have been gone at the first opportunity. Now he is waiting to see how the new AD handles the situation.

Obviously, I like and follow college sports. I am on this board, and YC/MMB. However,knowing the salaries are partly on the back of students with fees, and not optional fees, then the coaches need to not be paid so much. I know I am fighting a loosing battle, but I stand by my statement. With that said, the money raised by the dugout club should not leave the BB/SB area except under some very dire reasons. For Title IX reasons I would not be upset is BB and SB shared the donations and concessions as long as it was clear that was happening with both teams.

But back to my point, coaches make to much, and I would just as soon prefer App not play the same game as everyone else. Call me Don Quixote on this.

Don, App coaches salaries have not been supplemented with with student fees since the mid 80's. Back then coaches were part time instructors and as such had their salaries partially funded as faculty. That was changed under Jim Garner.

I am always curious as to why some think they should decide what others make. I certainly don't think I have a voice in what you or anyone else makes and I'm really glad nobody has a say in how much I make. That is between the individual and their employer. Nobody else's opinion matters. The great thing about America is one can make as much or as little as they desire. The individual makes a decision to enter the profession of their choosing. Coaches make what is driven by the market. As long as people pay big money to attend college football games coaches will make their share of the revenue. If you don't agree with it, don't go.
09-08-2014 07:37 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #23
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 04:07 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Have never understood why we have to have so many sports. Always figured they
were going to add snow skiing, fencing, sand volleyball, tubing, kayaking, canoeing, logging,
hiking, para sailing, and quidditch as official sports at anytime.

We have to eliminate some sports or move them to club status.

In 1995 a group of alumni and supporters pushed Chancellor Frank Borkowski to come out with an official position on the direction of our football program. We believed donors had a right to know where the university stood. In response the university held an athletics forum. In a packed auditorium the chancellor and athletics director explained over two hour period that Appalachian didn't have the resources to fully fund the 19 programs we were sponsoring, much less pursue 1-A football. During the Q&A session I asked the simple question; If we can't afford to fund 19 sports, why are we sponsoring them? Our former AD got up and began pontificating about how we had all these wonderful student athletes who enjoyed competing and we had to give them that opportunity. My follow up question was; Are we actually giving these young people the opportunity to compete when we send them out on the field or court with fewer scholarships players on their team, fewer coaches and inferior equipment? All I got was silence.
09-08-2014 07:55 PM
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McLeansvilleAppFan Offline
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Post: #24
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 07:37 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 03:45 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 10:34 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 06:54 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Darcie was making $139,000 and her girlfriend / assistant coach (it's a well know fact) was making $86,000. I think $225,000 in a town where the medium household income is a little less than $50,000 is a significant amount of money to toss away.

I don't know what professors make at App on average, but a WBB coach that, yes, had success, but also had low attendance to pull in that amount and the asst pull in $86,000 is just way too much in my view. I think every coach makes to much, but for what is a very low revenue sport, that is just too much in my view.

I am guessing Title IX, which I support, plays some role in pay equity between WBB and MBB. If that is the case, then lower the MBB coaches salary for all of I care. They make too much as well.

In comparison to the rest of the SB our basketball coaches make far from too much. We ain't in Kansas anymore. I'd be more inclined to reduce the ridiculous number of sports we sponsor and fold that into the programs. Not just to afford FBS, but to be able to hire quality coaches and pay them in comparable to what their peers make.

Here's a little FYI for you. Baseball coach Billy Jones is making $90K, his top assistant $40K and the other $30K. The Dugout Club was formed several years ago by former coach Chris Pollard to fund expenses outside the budget, not salaries. The baseball staff also buys and sells their own apparel and concessions. Girlfriends of the players work the concession & souvenir stands. Two years ago Cobb cut the baseball budget by the amount of $'s brought in by these. In 2013-14 the baseball program generated more revenue than the mens and womens basketball teams COMBINED. This spring Cobb informed coach Jones he would be taking ALL the money generated by the concession and souvenir sales AND the Dugout Club donations and folding it into the general athletic budget. Considering the differences in salaries and revenue generated between baseball and the basketball staff's Billy Jones was not a very happy camper. Its a good bet he would have been gone at the first opportunity. Now he is waiting to see how the new AD handles the situation.

Obviously, I like and follow college sports. I am on this board, and YC/MMB. However,knowing the salaries are partly on the back of students with fees, and not optional fees, then the coaches need to not be paid so much. I know I am fighting a loosing battle, but I stand by my statement. With that said, the money raised by the dugout club should not leave the BB/SB area except under some very dire reasons. For Title IX reasons I would not be upset is BB and SB shared the donations and concessions as long as it was clear that was happening with both teams.

But back to my point, coaches make to much, and I would just as soon prefer App not play the same game as everyone else. Call me Don Quixote on this.

Don, App coaches salaries have not been supplemented with with student fees since the mid 80's. Back then coaches were part time instructors and as such had their salaries partially funded as faculty. That was changed under Jim Garner.

I am always curious as to why some think they should decide what others make. I certainly don't think I have a voice in what you or anyone else makes and I'm really glad nobody has a say in how much I make. That is between the individual and their employer. Nobody else's opinion matters. The great thing about America is one can make as much or as little as they desire. The individual makes a decision to enter the profession of their choosing. Coaches make what is driven by the market. As long as people pay big money to attend college football games coaches will make their share of the revenue. If you don't agree with it, don't go.

The reality is that the market is not running things. Students are forced to pay athletic fees. If that was optional I imagine some would pay the fees and many might balk at the fees. It does not matter if student fees pay scholly and ticket revenue pays salaries or vice versa. It is a bit of a shell game. The fact is most athletics DO NOT break even. If the market was allowed to run things most athletic dept would not operate, they would be bandrupt. App State and I bet every SB school is able to operate b/c the fees on the back of the students, many of whom are carrying a lot of debt that includes these fees. Coaches deserve to be paid, but if the market is what is determines the pay rate, then free the major funder from forced payment - the student.
09-08-2014 08:36 PM
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GoAppsGo92 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
I think this thread should be moved to the AppState section. We have major narrow casting going on here.
09-08-2014 08:57 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-07-2014 10:34 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 06:54 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Darcie was making $139,000 and her girlfriend / assistant coach (it's a well know fact) was making $86,000. I think $225,000 in a town where the medium household income is a little less than $50,000 is a significant amount of money to toss away.

I don't know what professors make at App on average, but a WBB coach that, yes, had success, but also had low attendance to pull in that amount and the asst pull in $86,000 is just way too much in my view. I think every coach makes to much, but for what is a very low revenue sport, that is just too much in my view.

I am guessing Title IX, which I support, plays some role in pay equity between WBB and MBB. If that is the case, then lower the MBB coaches salary for all of I care. They make too much as well.

In comparison to the rest of the SB our basketball coaches make far from too much. We ain't in Kansas anymore. I'd be more inclined to reduce the ridiculous number of sports we sponsor and fold that into the programs. Not just to afford FBS, but to be able to hire quality coaches and pay them in comparable to what their peers make.

Here's a little FYI for you. Baseball coach Billy Jones is making $90K, his top assistant $40K and the other $30K. The Dugout Club was formed several years ago by former coach Chris Pollard to fund expenses outside the budget, not salaries. The baseball staff also buys and sells their own apparel and concessions. Girlfriends of the players work the concession & souvenir stands. Two years ago Cobb cut the baseball budget by the amount of $'s brought in by these. In 2013-14 the baseball program generated more revenue than the mens and womens basketball teams COMBINED. This spring Cobb informed coach Jones he would be taking ALL the money generated by the concession and souvenir sales AND the Dugout Club donations and folding it into the general athletic budget. Considering the differences in salaries and revenue generated between baseball and the basketball staff's Billy Jones was not a very happy camper. Its a good bet he would have been gone at the first opportunity. Now he is waiting to see how the new AD handles the situation.

We had a similar situation here under our old AD. Money was pretty much snatched from baseball and we had a coach making around 85K a year. Nothing happened until we hired a good one and started winning, and nearly suffered the indignity of losing him to a conference school (MTSU) New President stepped in and offered a pay raise to SBC levels and stopped leaching money from the program.

Now all our baseball team can do is complain that we ignore them for football (Which they have a point on)
09-08-2014 09:09 PM
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AppMtneer08 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 04:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  As good as club cycling has been that should be the next sport. I like the variety personally, just do it with lower paid coaches and staff.

I think Cycling should absolutely be the next sport. they made the move up to D1 recently and have been successful. obviously, you would have to drop a couple of sports and i'm not sure how monetary support would work as far as bikes go. i have a mountain bike and a road bike myself, and they're not cheap, especially race bike for all of the different disciplines

i've always thought Field Hockey should be one of the sports that should go. we would save a lot of money by not having our team fly to the west coast and stay for a week+ every other year
09-08-2014 09:55 PM
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McLeansvilleAppFan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 09:55 PM)AppMtneer08 Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 04:23 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  As good as club cycling has been that should be the next sport. I like the variety personally, just do it with lower paid coaches and staff.

I think Cycling should absolutely be the next sport. they made the move up to D1 recently and have been successful. obviously, you would have to drop a couple of sports and i'm not sure how monetary support would work as far as bikes go. i have a mountain bike and a road bike myself, and they're not cheap, especially race bike for all of the different disciplines

i've always thought Field Hockey should be one of the sports that should go. we would save a lot of money by not having our team fly to the west coast and stay for a week+ every other year

I don't think we are visiting the west coast even that often. It is not a cheap sport as it does have some travel, but we played Pacific on a neutral site on the east coast.

With a smaller NorPac conference this year it may be that all teams go to Stockton for the tourney, but they may only take the top two of each division and we are left out as we were last year when they took n-1 teams to the conference and we were in nth place. N being the number of schools in the NorPac.
09-08-2014 10:09 PM
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moehler Offline
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Post: #29
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
I've always supported Cobb, he has done a lot of good things, but that pisses me off big time if he took money from the Dugout club and put it in a general fund. I joined the dugout club to specifically give my donations to the baseball program. If this is true, this might be the last donation I make to the athletic program, until someone can insure me that my money is going to the correct program that I intended it to go.
09-09-2014 12:05 AM
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Check Yosef Offline
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Post: #30
App state women's basketball coach fired
Field hockey just got their own stadium, not likely they are booted


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09-09-2014 01:04 AM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 01:04 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  Field hockey just got their own stadium, not likely they are booted


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Yeah, didn't understand that with track needing to be moved as much as
anything. From some posts and information seemed as if decisions were
made not on what App State needed but what some individuals wanted.
09-09-2014 03:55 AM
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Check Yosef Offline
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Post: #32
App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 03:55 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(09-09-2014 01:04 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  Field hockey just got their own stadium, not likely they are booted


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Yeah, didn't understand that with track needing to be moved as much as
anything. From some posts and information seemed as if decisions were
made not on what App State needed but what some individuals wanted.

I think it was foolish, our field hockey team, while having some attractive women, is incredibly bad. Track getting their own would allow us to get rid of the track around brewer as well as give a home field to an athletic program that actually has good years.


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09-09-2014 03:58 AM
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hapapp Offline
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Post: #33
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
The new FH facility has the correct surface for them to play on now as opposed to the field turf in KBS. Of course, the site was already available as they put it where the old soccer facility was on State Farm property. If the decision has been made to keep the sport, then they needed a proper facility.
09-09-2014 06:45 AM
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hapapp Offline
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Post: #34
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 01:04 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  Field hockey just got their own stadium, not likely they are booted


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For Title IX purposes we aren't likely going to boot any women's sports.
09-09-2014 06:48 AM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
What is it we need? 16 sports?
Was there not room enough to put the Track and Field on the old State Farm site, or make it
large enough to do so?
Who decided we need women's field hockey? Charlie Cobb?
Would rather we carry minimum number of sports and do them better.
Think it is ridiculous for the baseball team and their girlfriends and family and friends help
raise money to make themselves better only to be told after the fact that they cannot have
the money they themselves raised. That's insulting to those people.
09-09-2014 07:06 AM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #36
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 07:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  What is it we need? 16 sports?
Was there not room enough to put the Track and Field on the old State Farm site, or make it
large enough to do so?
Who decided we need women's field hockey? Charlie Cobb?
Would rather we carry minimum number of sports and do them better.
Think it is ridiculous for the baseball team and their girlfriends and family and friends help
raise money to make themselves better only to be told after the fact that they cannot have
the money they themselves raised. That's insulting to those people.

my view would be for the conference ad's to get together and decide on which sports everyone would be willing to fund so there could be conference-wide competition. for example at uta we would have to add a cpl. women's sports if we restart football, so we could just go ahead and add women's soccer.
09-09-2014 08:02 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #37
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-08-2014 08:36 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 07:37 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-08-2014 03:45 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 10:34 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(09-07-2014 06:54 PM)McLeansvilleAppFan Wrote:  I don't know what professors make at App on average, but a WBB coach that, yes, had success, but also had low attendance to pull in that amount and the asst pull in $86,000 is just way too much in my view. I think every coach makes to much, but for what is a very low revenue sport, that is just too much in my view.

I am guessing Title IX, which I support, plays some role in pay equity between WBB and MBB. If that is the case, then lower the MBB coaches salary for all of I care. They make too much as well.

In comparison to the rest of the SB our basketball coaches make far from too much. We ain't in Kansas anymore. I'd be more inclined to reduce the ridiculous number of sports we sponsor and fold that into the programs. Not just to afford FBS, but to be able to hire quality coaches and pay them in comparable to what their peers make.

Here's a little FYI for you. Baseball coach Billy Jones is making $90K, his top assistant $40K and the other $30K. The Dugout Club was formed several years ago by former coach Chris Pollard to fund expenses outside the budget, not salaries. The baseball staff also buys and sells their own apparel and concessions. Girlfriends of the players work the concession & souvenir stands. Two years ago Cobb cut the baseball budget by the amount of $'s brought in by these. In 2013-14 the baseball program generated more revenue than the mens and womens basketball teams COMBINED. This spring Cobb informed coach Jones he would be taking ALL the money generated by the concession and souvenir sales AND the Dugout Club donations and folding it into the general athletic budget. Considering the differences in salaries and revenue generated between baseball and the basketball staff's Billy Jones was not a very happy camper. Its a good bet he would have been gone at the first opportunity. Now he is waiting to see how the new AD handles the situation.

Obviously, I like and follow college sports. I am on this board, and YC/MMB. However,knowing the salaries are partly on the back of students with fees, and not optional fees, then the coaches need to not be paid so much. I know I am fighting a loosing battle, but I stand by my statement. With that said, the money raised by the dugout club should not leave the BB/SB area except under some very dire reasons. For Title IX reasons I would not be upset is BB and SB shared the donations and concessions as long as it was clear that was happening with both teams.

But back to my point, coaches make to much, and I would just as soon prefer App not play the same game as everyone else. Call me Don Quixote on this.

Don, App coaches salaries have not been supplemented with with student fees since the mid 80's. Back then coaches were part time instructors and as such had their salaries partially funded as faculty. That was changed under Jim Garner.

I am always curious as to why some think they should decide what others make. I certainly don't think I have a voice in what you or anyone else makes and I'm really glad nobody has a say in how much I make. That is between the individual and their employer. Nobody else's opinion matters. The great thing about America is one can make as much or as little as they desire. The individual makes a decision to enter the profession of their choosing. Coaches make what is driven by the market. As long as people pay big money to attend college football games coaches will make their share of the revenue. If you don't agree with it, don't go.

The reality is that the market is not running things. Students are forced to pay athletic fees. If that was optional I imagine some would pay the fees and many might balk at the fees. It does not matter if student fees pay scholly and ticket revenue pays salaries or vice versa. It is a bit of a shell game. The fact is most athletics DO NOT break even. If the market was allowed to run things most athletic dept would not operate, they would be bandrupt. App State and I bet every SB school is able to operate b/c the fees on the back of the students, many of whom are carrying a lot of debt that includes these fees. Coaches deserve to be paid, but if the market is what is determines the pay rate, then free the major funder from forced payment - the student.

You are combining two topics into one discussion. Obviously if there were no sports there would be no coaches to pay, but student athletic fees have NOTHING to do with coaches salaries. But as far as fees are concerned students are also "forced" into paying fees that support other programs and organizations they do not agree with. College fees aren't a-la-cart. Besides, nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head making them attend App. If they don't like paying athletic fees they are free to go somewhere else.
09-09-2014 09:22 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #38
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 01:04 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  Field hockey just got their own stadium, not likely they are booted


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The main problem I have with FH is few, if any, high schools in NC play the sport and all grants to players are out of state which more than doubles the cost. The surface FH uses is also the preferred surface for lacrosse so the stadium could easily be converted.
09-09-2014 09:54 AM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 07:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  What is it we need? 16 sports?
Was there not room enough to put the Track and Field on the old State Farm site, or make it
large enough to do so?
Who decided we need women's field hockey? Charlie Cobb?
Would rather we carry minimum number of sports and do them better.
Think it is ridiculous for the baseball team and their girlfriends and family and friends help
raise money to make themselves better only to be told after the fact that they cannot have
the money they themselves raised. That's insulting to those people.

No questions answered. Brings us to our needing a really good permanent AD as fast as possible.
09-09-2014 10:02 AM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #40
RE: App state women's basketball coach fired
(09-09-2014 07:06 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  What is it we need? 16 sports?
Was there not room enough to put the Track and Field on the old State Farm site, or make it
large enough to do so?
Who decided we need women's field hockey? Charlie Cobb?
Would rather we carry minimum number of sports and do them better.
Think it is ridiculous for the baseball team and their girlfriends and family and friends help
raise money to make themselves better only to be told after the fact that they cannot have
the money they themselves raised. That's insulting to those people.

To play FBS App must award 200 total grants and sponsor 16 sports in a combination of 8 men & 8 women, 7 & 9 or 6 & 10. IMO App should not be sponsoring any sport not recognized by the SB. Which would be FH & wrestling. I think it is time for golf to go away as well. I love to play golf, but the climate around Boone isn't suitable to having a competitive team. The area courses close at the end of October and don't reopen until May. To show how ridiculous it is App lists the Mimosa CC in Morganton (60 miles away) and The Surf Golf Club in North Myrtle Beach (305 miles away) as their home courses.

Women's FH is the oldest womens sport at ASU dating back to the 60's.

My son came up with a great idea for the track issue. Build a parking deck on the former Winkler Dorm site and park cars at the State Farm lot there. Use and use the State Farm parking lot for the track.
09-09-2014 10:18 AM
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