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How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
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It's The Talons Offline
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Post: #21
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
ESPN, the SEC, other factors and several schools starting FBS has hurt Southern Miss. We are our own worst enemies in not parlaying the success we had in the 80's, 90's and 2000's to move to a larger conference.

There seems to be constant infighting between our administrators and fanbase that holds us back as well. I just want to be seen as respectable again and not the laughing stock of CFB.
09-04-2014 02:20 PM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #22
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 08:51 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  USM stumbled right as ULL, ASU and La. Tech were taking off and USA was stepping into FBS. Now you have UTSA and a Tulane program that at least has shown small signs of life recruiting in USM's territory as well.

USM's supporters didn't go away overnight and they will still be there to build that program back to where it can be. They just have to make the right hires just like the rest of us and they have to schedule to right teams. As a fan of a program that lived in the USM shadow for a long time and wanted to emulate their success I hope they get back.... just not too much back!

A good hire can turn any program around, that's for sure. But I'm afraid the odds are stacking rapidly against USM because they seem to be way behind in facilities upgrades as well. Those upgrades don't come overnight and they're doubly-difficult to do when the program is mired in a losing streak.

USM might find it tough to get the guy they want because of the lack of facilities, and whoever they do hire might find it tough to recruit against those who have better facilities.
09-04-2014 03:28 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #23
How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:45 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 04:00 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 09:26 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 09:14 PM)AstroCajun Wrote:  Meh. Their wounds are largely self inflicted.

They deserve it if you ask me. They blocked USA when C-USA formed and has blocked them ever since. They never wanted USA to develop football because Mobile was their lifeline, for the most part, and they knew a good USA program isn't good for them.

USA starting football has hurt them. I did an analysis on Mobile and FL panhandle players going to USM before and after USA football started a while back and it's pretty compelling. It's funny they have worked so hard to block us because being in the same league with them would help them so much. Our fans would travel there and they'd make money. And they would be able to maintain a presence in Mobile by being able to play in Mobile. It's ironic actually.

I've always heard they tried to block USA joining when CUSA was formed but UAB and a couple of others overruled them. USA was then offered membership but turned it down. I have no direct knowledge that happened but I was told it by more than one south Alabama fan

Louisville lobbied for us to join and got the votes for USA despite USM, but at that point our president had decided to stay in the Sun Belt. Our AD was at the airport to go accept the membership offer when he was instructed by the president to go home.

So we could have been a founding member of CUSA (and started football sooner) but USM blocked us; when Louisville lobbied for USA and got us the votes our president just decided to stay in the Sun Belt. So our president is to blame also. But that doesn't change USM's position on USA.
USA wasn't going to get football as long as Fred Whiddon was alive.
09-04-2014 06:01 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #24
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 03:28 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 08:51 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  USM stumbled right as ULL, ASU and La. Tech were taking off and USA was stepping into FBS. Now you have UTSA and a Tulane program that at least has shown small signs of life recruiting in USM's territory as well.

USM's supporters didn't go away overnight and they will still be there to build that program back to where it can be. They just have to make the right hires just like the rest of us and they have to schedule to right teams. As a fan of a program that lived in the USM shadow for a long time and wanted to emulate their success I hope they get back.... just not too much back!

A good hire can turn any program around, that's for sure. But I'm afraid the odds are stacking rapidly against USM because they seem to be way behind in facilities upgrades as well. Those upgrades don't come overnight and they're doubly-difficult to do when the program is mired in a losing streak.

USM might find it tough to get the guy they want because of the lack of facilities, and whoever they do hire might find it tough to recruit against those who have better facilities.

Have you been on their campus? The Facilities are still better than the majority of programs in the Sun Belt, including UL.
09-04-2014 06:03 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #25
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:01 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:45 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 04:00 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 09:26 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 09:14 PM)AstroCajun Wrote:  Meh. Their wounds are largely self inflicted.

They deserve it if you ask me. They blocked USA when C-USA formed and has blocked them ever since. They never wanted USA to develop football because Mobile was their lifeline, for the most part, and they knew a good USA program isn't good for them.

USA starting football has hurt them. I did an analysis on Mobile and FL panhandle players going to USM before and after USA football started a while back and it's pretty compelling. It's funny they have worked so hard to block us because being in the same league with them would help them so much. Our fans would travel there and they'd make money. And they would be able to maintain a presence in Mobile by being able to play in Mobile. It's ironic actually.

I've always heard they tried to block USA joining when CUSA was formed but UAB and a couple of others overruled them. USA was then offered membership but turned it down. I have no direct knowledge that happened but I was told it by more than one south Alabama fan

Louisville lobbied for us to join and got the votes for USA despite USM, but at that point our president had decided to stay in the Sun Belt. Our AD was at the airport to go accept the membership offer when he was instructed by the president to go home.

So we could have been a founding member of CUSA (and started football sooner) but USM blocked us; when Louisville lobbied for USA and got us the votes our president just decided to stay in the Sun Belt. So our president is to blame also. But that doesn't change USM's position on USA.
USA wasn't going to get football as long as Fred Whiddon was alive.

That is probably true. Whiddon was the reason we weren't a founding member of C-USA. But Whiddon hasn't been the president since 1998 and died in 2002.
09-04-2014 06:13 PM
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dahbeed Offline
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Post: #26
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
i've used the argument about other schools catching up with a certain school before that had enjoyed sustained success.

their fans shouted me down and gave every excuse under the sun about what happened EXCEPT other schools catching AND surpassing them.

how come people believe that's what happened to usm but didn't believe me when i posited that theory in the sunbelt? hmm.....

03-2thumbsup
09-04-2014 06:19 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #27
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:19 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  i've used the argument about other schools catching up with a certain school before that had enjoyed sustained success.

their fans shouted me down and gave every excuse under the sun about what happened EXCEPT other schools catching AND surpassing them.

how come people believe that's what happened to usm but didn't believe me when i posited that theory in the sunbelt? hmm.....

03-2thumbsup

Because Courtney Lee.
09-04-2014 06:23 PM
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dahbeed Offline
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Post: #28
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:23 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:19 PM)dahbeed Wrote:  i've used the argument about other schools catching up with a certain school before that had enjoyed sustained success.

their fans shouted me down and gave every excuse under the sun about what happened EXCEPT other schools catching AND surpassing them.

how come people believe that's what happened to usm but didn't believe me when i posited that theory in the sunbelt? hmm.....

03-2thumbsup


Because Courtney Lee.

the courtney lee meme/play will get a chuckle between you and i skully but will never be on a tony mitchell level.

besides....we're talking about the pointy ball here.
09-04-2014 06:45 PM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #29
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:03 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  Have you been on their campus? The Facilities are still better than the majority of programs in the Sun Belt, including UL.

Yes I have been to their campus and seen a game at their stadium.

As for the comment about their facilities being better than a majority of the programs in the Belt, sorry if I insinuated that USM aspires to compete at the Belt's level. I'm pretty sure they don't.
09-04-2014 06:53 PM
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Louisianafanrcajun90 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
I never could understand why good players would go to USM. Hattiesburg is a dreadful town. The university almost as bad. They were never growing but dying. The SLC awaits with open arms.
09-04-2014 06:58 PM
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Post: #31
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
USM simply illustrates a truth we don't want to think about.

G5 programs are fragile.

Get the wrong leadership combo or make a few too many bad guesses on recruiting or simply fail to catch a break in a couple close games and it can rapidly collapse.

As to facilities, USM is in great shape with facilities.
09-04-2014 08:55 PM
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It's The Talons Offline
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Post: #32
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 06:58 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  I never could understand why good players would go to USM. Hattiesburg is a dreadful town. The university almost as bad. They were never growing but dying. The SLC awaits with open arms.

Please be objective in your assessments. Hattiesburg is a great place to live and the university is very nice. Good players came to Hattiesburg to win and that's what they did for a very long period of time.
09-05-2014 07:34 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #33
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-05-2014 07:34 AM)Its The Talons Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:58 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  I never could understand why good players would go to USM. Hattiesburg is a dreadful town. The university almost as bad. They were never growing but dying. The SLC awaits with open arms.

Please be objective in your assessments. Hattiesburg is a great place to live and the university is very nice. Good players came to Hattiesburg to win and that's what they did for a very long period of time.

Yeah. Hattiesburg was always nice when I visited or went through the town.
09-05-2014 08:52 AM
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GeauxUL Offline
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Post: #34
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-05-2014 08:52 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 07:34 AM)Its The Talons Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 06:58 PM)Louisianafanrcajun90 Wrote:  I never could understand why good players would go to USM. Hattiesburg is a dreadful town. The university almost as bad. They were never growing but dying. The SLC awaits with open arms.

Please be objective in your assessments. Hattiesburg is a great place to live and the university is very nice. Good players came to Hattiesburg to win and that's what they did for a very long period of time.

Yeah. Hattiesburg was always nice when I visited or went through the town.

I agree, what an asinine statement about USM and Hattiesburg...
09-05-2014 09:00 AM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
Don't know about the town, but their facilities look pretty nice. They might be dated, but overall they look good. Would be a great addition to the SBC 03-wink

Also, we would have 2 stadiums nicknamed 'the rock'
09-05-2014 09:14 AM
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swampbear Offline
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Post: #36
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-04-2014 08:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  USM simply illustrates a truth we don't want to think about.

G5 programs are fragile.

Get the wrong leadership combo or make a few too many bad guesses on recruiting or simply fail to catch a break in a couple close games and it can rapidly collapse.

As to facilities, USM is in great shape with facilities.

For that matter, look at Alabama from Bear retiring to the hiring of Saban. With the exception of Gene Stallings the rest of the period was rather sorry....if it can happen at Bama it can happen anywhere.
09-05-2014 09:30 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #37
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-03-2014 09:26 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  
(09-03-2014 09:14 PM)AstroCajun Wrote:  Meh. Their wounds are largely self inflicted.

They deserve it if you ask me. They blocked USA when C-USA formed and has blocked them ever since. They never wanted USA to develop football because Mobile was their lifeline, for the most part, and they knew a good USA program isn't good for them.

USA starting football has hurt them. I did an analysis on Mobile and FL panhandle players going to USM before and after USA football started a while back and it's pretty compelling. It's funny they have worked so hard to block us because being in the same league with them would help them so much. Our fans would travel there and they'd make money. And they would be able to maintain a presence in Mobile by being able to play in Mobile. It's ironic actually.

USM has made so many mistakes, both on and off the field. USM's natural market area should have included Mobile and the Mississippi Coast. They wasted their superior position and allowed others to move into that space.

If USM played one home game every two years at Ladd, would USA bother with starting a football team? If USM had actually provided courses and marketed those courses on the Mississippi Coast, would USA have such a strong presence in Mississippi (Mississippi residents taking classes at USA in Mobile > Alabama residents taking classes at USM by a factor of 10). USA is considering opening up a branch campus in USM's footprint. The second largest feeder institution to USA is an institution in Mississippi. If USA hasn't passed USM in total enrollment yet, it will do so within the next 2 or 3 years.

So they ignored Mobile, so USA now has a football team. They ignored the Mississippi Coast, where USA is now entrenched.

And then they got screwed by the AAC. Now they are left in a conference not much (if any) better than the Sun Belt, USA is playing football, and USA now draws as many (if not more) students from the Coast as USM does.

Smart schools look upward and downward. USA competes with USM but will also take steps to ensure that other rivals don't emerge in their market. For example, USA cannot stop UWF from starting football or offering in state tuition to Baldwin County residents (a USA extension in Foley would be a logical response to that move) , but they certainly will watch those programs like a hawk in order to ensure that what USA has built, doesn't get swiped away by a smaller rival. USM never did that with USA.
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2014 10:19 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
09-05-2014 10:07 AM
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YouCanUseaMint Offline
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Post: #38
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
Went to the USM - Texas State away game last year and while I found the town incredibly boring with limited options of good food, I thought the campus was very nice. Stadium was also nice, and most of their fans were friendly (we had a hot dog thrown at us, but that's because a buddy insisted on walking through the Greek tailgate)
09-05-2014 10:11 AM
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YouCanUseaMint Offline
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RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
And for as much as I complain about the leadership at Texas State not doing more, I realize that we could have it MUCH worse (looking at you FIU and USM)
09-05-2014 10:16 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #40
RE: How the SEC Destroyed Southern Miss - and Could Kill Football
(09-05-2014 09:30 AM)swampbear Wrote:  
(09-04-2014 08:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  USM simply illustrates a truth we don't want to think about.

G5 programs are fragile.

Get the wrong leadership combo or make a few too many bad guesses on recruiting or simply fail to catch a break in a couple close games and it can rapidly collapse.

As to facilities, USM is in great shape with facilities.

For that matter, look at Alabama from Bear retiring to the hiring of Saban. With the exception of Gene Stallings the rest of the period was rather sorry....if it can happen at Bama it can happen anywhere.

Well I did not want to start a fight so I did not include in my previous post that Hattiesburg was pretty much the same size as Tuscaloosa tweny years ago. Believe me, I know what I am talking about. A large amount of my family live in Tuscaloosa County and the surrounding counties. I also have family that were born and raised in Forrest County, Mississippi and several high school friends from Mobile that attended and graduated from USM.

The truth, as already stated, is that USM was protecting its recruiting base when it voted against South Alabama. Now USM has to deal with Troy, USA, ULM and UAB recruiting in the area as well. It takes its toll and you have to have leadership.
09-05-2014 10:17 AM
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