(08-11-2014 10:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The courts could blow all of them up...or Congress at some point. The future is unclear.

If this is representative of the arrogance with which they intend to proceed, then you can count on the courts stepping in. What they are doing is a setting up a monopoly and then following it up with colluding to set the barriers to entry so high in their market that no outside competitor will ever be able to enter (plus, even if they could afford it, they would have to get "invited" to enter).

He may not want socialism, but what he's talking about has been illegal in this country for quite some time - just ask Standard Oil how that worked out for them.

(08-12-2014 03:37 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 10:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The courts could blow all of them up...or Congress at some point. The future is unclear.

If this is representative of the arrogance with which they intend to proceed, then you can count on the courts stepping in. What they are doing is a setting up a monopoly and then following it up with colluding to set the barriers to entry so high in their market that no outside competitor will ever be able to enter (plus, even if they could afford it, they would have to get "invited" to enter).

He may not want socialism, but what he's talking about has been illegal in this country for quite some time - just ask Standard Oil how that worked out for them.

I agree with you completely. Whether they actually get called on it is a whole other matter.

(08-12-2014 03:37 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(08-11-2014 10:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The courts could blow all of them up...or Congress at some point. The future is unclear.

If this is representative of the arrogance with which they intend to proceed, then you can count on the courts stepping in. What they are doing is a setting up a monopoly and then following it up with colluding to set the barriers to entry so high in their market that no outside competitor will ever be able to enter (plus, even if they could afford it, they would have to get "invited" to enter).

He may not want socialism, but what he's talking about has been illegal in this country for quite some time - just ask Standard Oil how that worked out for them.

I agree with Panthersville, and I'm not drunk.

when you read statements like this, and realize that a majority of his peers at other P5 schools feel the same way, I would love to see the G5 schools breakaway from them and form our own national championship, or the G5 schools ban togeather, declare war on the P5 schools, sue the living hell at of them, and lets spend the next 10 years in court with them. I'm sick of their arrogance, and their attempts to basically destroy collage football all in the name of power and total control.

(08-12-2014 02:32 PM)runamuck Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 11:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:23 AM)AstroCajun Wrote:  I find "socialism" to be a very odd accusation. Especially since the Texas's of the world not only owe a great deal of their massive budgets due to the backs of the taxpayers before they became "self sustaining" ™ but also because they are still ostensibly a public ******* institution.

I don't think he knows what that word means.

Same as these jacklegs who go to public supported schools, got loans subsidized by the government to go to school, then got a government backed loan to start their business, some tax breaks to expand their business, ship their raw materials and finished goods on railroads built with government subsidization, or highways built by the government or on airplanes that fly safely thanks government air traffic control and land on runways built by the government. Put their money in government insured banks, have affordable insurance on their property because of government funded police and fire protection, can pursue dead beat customers in the government's courts and use the power of the government to seize the deadbeat's assests to pay them back, communicate via government built or subsidized communication methods, and are able to get the checks on other banks or wired funds deposited via a clearinghouse scheme created by the government and the proudly proclaim to be self-made without any help from the government or anyone else.

All the P5 with the exception of some of the privates were built in a subsidized manner, most of the P5 remain subsidized to a degree and think because someone made a good decision in 1919 that they are geniuses for building what they have today.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. all those things you talk being provided by the government did not just fall out of the sky. they are paid for by taxes levied on the very people who use them. the money didnt come from some great benevolent society that we should be beholding to. as a middle class working person I pay about 60% of my hard earned money toward an ever increasing litany of taxes and fees..and as a self-employed person working 10 hours a day, yes I do feel like I am making my own way. there is no employer for the government to force to buy my health insurance or fund my retirement. it is all on me.

You are reading some other agenda into my comments.

Yeah someone paid for all the stuff government does but Sam Walton's tax bill didn't fund the interstate system nor the railroads that made it possible for his one store to become thousands nor did it create the police and fire that made it affordable to insure his stores, nor did it create the clearinghouse system that allowed each day's deposits to be wired to Bentonville. I'm sure Sam paid his fair share of taxes. He was bright and had a great idea but his idea doesn't work without the infrastructure others paid for. WalMart doesn't happen without his hard work and innovation but he could never have achieved it solely on his own either.

Uhoh, you got Runamok started on politics. Mavalum83 and DuckMav may bot be far behind.

Y

(08-12-2014 04:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 02:32 PM)runamuck Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 11:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:23 AM)AstroCajun Wrote:  I find "socialism" to be a very odd accusation. Especially since the Texas's of the world not only owe a great deal of their massive budgets due to the backs of the taxpayers before they became "self sustaining" ™ but also because they are still ostensibly a public ******* institution.

I don't think he knows what that word means.

Same as these jacklegs who go to public supported schools, got loans subsidized by the government to go to school, then got a government backed loan to start their business, some tax breaks to expand their business, ship their raw materials and finished goods on railroads built with government subsidization, or highways built by the government or on airplanes that fly safely thanks government air traffic control and land on runways built by the government. Put their money in government insured banks, have affordable insurance on their property because of government funded police and fire protection, can pursue dead beat customers in the government's courts and use the power of the government to seize the deadbeat's assests to pay them back, communicate via government built or subsidized communication methods, and are able to get the checks on other banks or wired funds deposited via a clearinghouse scheme created by the government and the proudly proclaim to be self-made without any help from the government or anyone else.

All the P5 with the exception of some of the privates were built in a subsidized manner, most of the P5 remain subsidized to a degree and think because someone made a good decision in 1919 that they are geniuses for building what they have today.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. all those things you talk being provided by the government did not just fall out of the sky. they are paid for by taxes levied on the very people who use them. the money didnt come from some great benevolent society that we should be beholding to. as a middle class working person I pay about 60% of my hard earned money toward an ever increasing litany of taxes and fees..and as a self-employed person working 10 hours a day, yes I do feel like I am making my own way. there is no employer for the government to force to buy my health insurance or fund my retirement. it is all on me.

You are reading some other agenda into my comments.

Yeah someone paid for all the stuff government does but Sam Walton's tax bill didn't fund the interstate system nor the railroads that made it possible for his one store to become thousands nor did it create the police and fire that made it affordable to insure his stores, nor did it create the clearinghouse system that allowed each day's deposits to be wired to Bentonville. I'm sure Sam paid his fair share of taxes. He was bright and had a great idea but his idea doesn't work without the infrastructure others paid for. WalMart doesn't happen without his hard work and innovation but he could never have achieved it solely on his own either.

While we should be appreciative of the excellent infrastructure our country offers, it should be mentioned that the truth is NOBODY really paid for many of those improvements. To an extent--40% of our infrastructure spending every year does drop out of the sky. The US government borrows 40 cents of every dollar we spend and have piled up an impressive debt that exceeds the entire GDP of the nation. So, there is quite a bit of infrastructue that has not been paid for--we simply put it on Uncle Sams credit card. The British have a great term for credit card debt--they call it "buying on the never never".

(08-13-2014 02:17 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Y

(08-12-2014 04:17 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 02:32 PM)runamuck Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 11:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(08-12-2014 09:23 AM)AstroCajun Wrote:  I find "socialism" to be a very odd accusation. Especially since the Texas's of the world not only owe a great deal of their massive budgets due to the backs of the taxpayers before they became "self sustaining" ™ but also because they are still ostensibly a public ******* institution.

I don't think he knows what that word means.

Same as these jacklegs who go to public supported schools, got loans subsidized by the government to go to school, then got a government backed loan to start their business, some tax breaks to expand their business, ship their raw materials and finished goods on railroads built with government subsidization, or highways built by the government or on airplanes that fly safely thanks government air traffic control and land on runways built by the government. Put their money in government insured banks, have affordable insurance on their property because of government funded police and fire protection, can pursue dead beat customers in the government's courts and use the power of the government to seize the deadbeat's assests to pay them back, communicate via government built or subsidized communication methods, and are able to get the checks on other banks or wired funds deposited via a clearinghouse scheme created by the government and the proudly proclaim to be self-made without any help from the government or anyone else.

All the P5 with the exception of some of the privates were built in a subsidized manner, most of the P5 remain subsidized to a degree and think because someone made a good decision in 1919 that they are geniuses for building what they have today.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. all those things you talk being provided by the government did not just fall out of the sky. they are paid for by taxes levied on the very people who use them. the money didnt come from some great benevolent society that we should be beholding to. as a middle class working person I pay about 60% of my hard earned money toward an ever increasing litany of taxes and fees..and as a self-employed person working 10 hours a day, yes I do feel like I am making my own way. there is no employer for the government to force to buy my health insurance or fund my retirement. it is all on me.

You are reading some other agenda into my comments.

Yeah someone paid for all the stuff government does but Sam Walton's tax bill didn't fund the interstate system nor the railroads that made it possible for his one store to become thousands nor did it create the police and fire that made it affordable to insure his stores, nor did it create the clearinghouse system that allowed each day's deposits to be wired to Bentonville. I'm sure Sam paid his fair share of taxes. He was bright and had a great idea but his idea doesn't work without the infrastructure others paid for. WalMart doesn't happen without his hard work and innovation but he could never have achieved it solely on his own either.

While we should be appreciative of the excellent infrastructure our country offers, it should be mentioned that the truth is NOBODY really paid for many of those improvements. To an extent--40% of our infrastructure spending every year does drop out of the sky. The US government borrows 40 cents of every dollar we spend and have piled up an impressive debt that exceeds the entire GDP of the nation. So, there is quite a bit of infrastructue that has not been paid for--we simply put it on Uncle Sams credit card. The British have a great term for credit card debt--they call it "buying on the never never".

I guess I got carried away. the other posters are right tho, some of the p5 schools are all full of themselves. some owe their standing to government meddling and politics. take the big 12 schools for example. when texas and a-m were trying to shuck rice and and the other bottom schools from the old swc and align with ou and others, strings were pulled and political pressure applied down in austin to force them to take along texas tech and baylor. eventually tcu made it back to the big party but the others have not and have now been left farther behind with this new legislation.

(08-12-2014 04:02 PM)moehler Wrote:  when you read statements like this, and realize that a majority of his peers at other P5 schools feel the same way, I would love to see the G5 schools breakaway from them and form our own national championship, or the G5 schools ban togeather, declare war on the P5 schools, sue the living hell at of them, and lets spend the next 10 years in court with them. I'm sick of their arrogance, and their attempts to basically destroy collage football all in the name of power and total control.

Who is gonna watch an App State championship game vs Memphis as compared to LSU vs Ohio State? It sounds good, but wouldn't be very practical.

The days of the Big12 are numbered.

It's this type of attitude that has run off four other teams.

Other than OU though, and maybe KU, the rest are heading to the G5 if the wheels fall off.

(08-13-2014 09:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The days of the Big12 are numbered.

It's this type of attitude that has run off four other teams.

Other than OU though, and maybe KU, the rest are heading to the G5 if the wheels fall off.

You can't truly believe that.

(08-13-2014 09:57 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The days of the Big12 are numbered.

It's this type of attitude that has run off four other teams.

Other than OU though, and maybe KU, the rest are heading to the G5 if the wheels fall off.

You can't truly believe that.

Baylor - maybe, but doubtful now that they've tasted success
Iowa State - probably
Kansas - no, BBall
Kansas State - maybe, but same as Baylor
Oklahoma - hell no
Oklahoma State - nope
TCU - after they JUST went through all that effort and made the jump? nope
Texas - haha no
Texas Tech - remote possibility, but highly doubtful
West Virginia - see: TCU


So yeah, if "Iowa State" is considered the rest of the Big 12, then you're probably right.

Baylor wouldn't get picked up by anybody.
OSU would'n get picked up by anybody.
KSU wouldn't get picked up.
WVU wouldn't get picked up.
Iowas St. wouldn't get picked up.
TCU... LOL
Texas Tech, close but still nobody is interested.
Kansas somebody will pick them up for basketball.

OU and Texas are the Big12. Everybody else are tag-alongs.

(08-13-2014 10:13 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Baylor wouldn't get picked up by anybody.
OSU would'n get picked up by anybody.
KSU wouldn't get picked up.
WVU wouldn't get picked up.
Iowas St. wouldn't get picked up.
TCU... LOL
Texas Tech, close but still nobody is interested.
Kansas somebody will pick them up for basketball.

OU and Texas are the Big12. Everybody else are tag-alongs.

Oklahoma State going to the G5 is laughable. They'd go Notre Dame Style and play independent if it came to it. They've got T Boone Pickens money flowing into the program.

(08-13-2014 10:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:13 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Baylor wouldn't get picked up by anybody.
OSU would'n get picked up by anybody.
KSU wouldn't get picked up.
WVU wouldn't get picked up.
Iowas St. wouldn't get picked up.
TCU... LOL
Texas Tech, close but still nobody is interested.
Kansas somebody will pick them up for basketball.

OU and Texas are the Big12. Everybody else are tag-alongs.

Oklahoma State going to the G5 is laughable. They'd go Notre Dame Style and play independent if it came to it. They've got T Boone Pickens money flowing into the program.

You miss where his money train dried up?

He was footing the bill left and right when he was worth 3 billion. He's worth a little less than a billion today.

(08-13-2014 10:28 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:13 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Baylor wouldn't get picked up by anybody.
OSU would'n get picked up by anybody.
KSU wouldn't get picked up.
WVU wouldn't get picked up.
Iowas St. wouldn't get picked up.
TCU... LOL
Texas Tech, close but still nobody is interested.
Kansas somebody will pick them up for basketball.

OU and Texas are the Big12. Everybody else are tag-alongs.

Oklahoma State going to the G5 is laughable. They'd go Notre Dame Style and play independent if it came to it. They've got T Boone Pickens money flowing into the program.

You miss where his money train dried up?

He was footing the bill left and right when he was worth 3 billion. He's worth a little less than a billion today.

Even then, you also just managed to list 7 Big 12 schools who would be relegated to G5...yet they only need 8 to form a viable conference themselves, and the Big 12 is guaranteed playoff revenue and P5 spots for 12 years.

Its not possible to destroy the Big 12 unless 5 or 6 teams leave.

And I also doubt the State of Oklahoma would allow OU and OSU to separate.

T Boone and OSU issues

(08-13-2014 10:30 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:28 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:21 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 10:13 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Baylor wouldn't get picked up by anybody.
OSU would'n get picked up by anybody.
KSU wouldn't get picked up.
WVU wouldn't get picked up.
Iowas St. wouldn't get picked up.
TCU... LOL
Texas Tech, close but still nobody is interested.
Kansas somebody will pick them up for basketball.

OU and Texas are the Big12. Everybody else are tag-alongs.

Oklahoma State going to the G5 is laughable. They'd go Notre Dame Style and play independent if it came to it. They've got T Boone Pickens money flowing into the program.

You miss where his money train dried up?

He was footing the bill left and right when he was worth 3 billion. He's worth a little less than a billion today.

Even then, you also just managed to list 7 Big 12 schools who would be relegated to G5...yet they only need 8 to form a viable conference themselves, and the Big 12 is guaranteed playoff revenue and P5 spots for 12 years.

Its not possible to destroy the Big 12 unless 5 or 6 teams leave.

And I also doubt the State of Oklahoma would allow OU and OSU to separate.

The Big12 is effectively dead if it were to be down Texas and OU. It may by rule be a P5 program but it wouldn't find itself being considered for one of only four playoff spots.

Being totally honest, minus OU and Texas the rest are historical doormats. That's not a conference with a future.

The OSU/OU legislature issue has been beaten to death elsewhere on this forum. Apparently, it isn't entirely true.

(08-13-2014 09:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The days of the Big12 are numbered.

It's this type of attitude that has run off four other teams.

Other than OU though, and maybe KU, the rest are heading to the G5 if the wheels fall off.

I tend to agree. The B-12 is in the precarious position of counting on Texas. Without Texas, Oklahoma would be unlikely to stay. Without Oklahoma and Texas, the Big-12 is still a nice conference--but its no longer a true power conference. It would clearly still be superior to the G5 conferences, but it would not likely command a 20 million dollar media deal. It would be more like the old Big East after the first ACC raid.

(08-13-2014 10:42 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:37 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The days of the Big12 are numbered.

It's this type of attitude that has run off four other teams.

Other than OU though, and maybe KU, the rest are heading to the G5 if the wheels fall off.

I tend to agree. The B-12 is in the precarious position of counting on Texas. Without Texas, Oklahoma would be unlikely to stay. Without Oklahoma and Texas, the Big-12 is still a nice conference--but its no longer a true power conference. It would clearly still be superior to the G5 conferences, but it would not likely command a 20 million dollar media deal. It would be more like the old Big East after the first ACC raid.

Well put.