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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #361
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
For a long time, I favored 24 because it was a great way to grow and still be divisible by 4. It had certain advantages.

If divisions are indeed done away with and I hope for that then I'm starting to think 22 is ideal.

For the SEC, I would grab Florida State, Miami, Clemson, UNC, Duke, and Virginia.

That's a 22 that covers every base.

Only exception to that would be if Notre Dame was interested in joining although I don't really expect that.
05-11-2022 10:56 PM
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OdinFrigg Online
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Post: #362
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(04-23-2022 08:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 07:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

We are headed for a P2 of what will eventually be about 48 schools.

So, O.F. which 8 do you wish to see in the SEC. The value is accretive because the current number of 65 hands in the pie will be reduced by 17 and revenues raised for better weekly match ups and for having a collection of brands which draw 2-3 million viewers or more each time they play.

I'd say the first 4 which would be the most accretive would be North Carolina and Virginia Tech for additional markets of 21 million. Florida State gives us 2 in a large state and gives us the 2 which deliver the most viewers. Clemson x anyone in the SEC lineup will be compelling TV. Beyond that it's what ESPN wants. Louisville is the best all around. Miami holds solid value and is easily recognized by casual viewers.
Georgia Tech is in the largest city in the South. Duke and Kansas are national draws in hoops.

Combining the PAC and B1G is a natural. Counting only AAU schools that's 9 + 14 assuming ND is #24.

If the SEC grows to 24 we need take 8 from the ACC & B12. The revenue increases with inventory, larger shares due to fewer members, and better matchups due to brand on brand play.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else. That's true. But if we are the nucleus for half of a new self contained league which 8 would you take?

I'll buy the two super conferences. That is essentially the situation now. At least two other P5s will exist, but not as formidable as the super 2.

As to which ACC schools would bolt to the SEC at a future point, it would be among the same mid-atlantic and southern names most here are batting around.

I am awaiting to see more national clarity on player pay, NIL, a new playoff format, contract negotiations elsewhere, and what happens with the NCAA governing structure. I predict a rocky ride ahead.
05-16-2022 05:12 AM
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OdinFrigg Online
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Post: #363
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(05-16-2022 05:12 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 08:20 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-23-2022 07:48 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 06:17 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(09-05-2014 03:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I think disparity in income is the new carrot with which to entice the final moves. We'll see.

Possibly, but since the ACC is owned by ESPN, the Mouse might feel inclined to keep the ACC within range of the SEC and B1G just on general principle. Its a move not without precedent as intervention from FOX and the WWL is the sole reason why the B12 still exists. I'm sure ESPN knows better than us any SEC---> ACC movement would bring into question the latter's stability and it is doubtful that ESPN could find a home for all 14 schools. And lets face it, an ACC addition only benefits to SEC in areas that are ancillary to play on the field.

If any conference is going away its definitely going to be the B12. Less members to disperse, the opportunity to do so is right around the corner, has the weaker brand and the logistics are easier for the rest of the P4 to swallow.

There is a point of 'diminishing return' on expansion, particularly for a conference atop the heap such as the SEC. What that number may be is debatable.
My opinion is that the SEC is in a grand situation with the OU and UT additions. The SEC can be very choosy going forward. The ACC has a few high quality schools that may offer a net gain to the revenue of the current SEC schools.
The Big12, at varying times, has lost Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M, Missouri, and now Texas and Oklahoma. What's left are not impressive standouts, and I say that includes Kansas outside their basketball program.

We are headed for a P2 of what will eventually be about 48 schools.

So, O.F. which 8 do you wish to see in the SEC. The value is accretive because the current number of 65 hands in the pie will be reduced by 17 and revenues raised for better weekly match ups and for having a collection of brands which draw 2-3 million viewers or more each time they play.

I'd say the first 4 which would be the most accretive would be North Carolina and Virginia Tech for additional markets of 21 million. Florida State gives us 2 in a large state and gives us the 2 which deliver the most viewers. Clemson x anyone in the SEC lineup will be compelling TV. Beyond that it's what ESPN wants. Louisville is the best all around. Miami holds solid value and is easily recognized by casual viewers.
Georgia Tech is in the largest city in the South. Duke and Kansas are national draws in hoops.

Combining the PAC and B1G is a natural. Counting only AAU schools that's 9 + 14 assuming ND is #24.

If the SEC grows to 24 we need take 8 from the ACC & B12. The revenue increases with inventory, larger shares due to fewer members, and better matchups due to brand on brand play.

The SEC doesn't need anyone else. That's true. But if we are the nucleus for half of a new self contained league which 8 would you take?

I'll buy the two super conferences. That is essentially the situation now. At least two other P5s will exist, but not as formidable as the super 2.

As to which ACC schools would bolt to the SEC at a future point, it would be among the same mid-atlantic and southern names most here are batting around.

I am awaiting to see more national clarity on player pay, NIL, a new playoff format, contract negotiations elsewhere, and what happens with the NCAA governing structure. I predict a rocky ride ahead.

Back in late January after the Oklahoma & Texas announcement, I recall Paul Finebaum recommending Notre Dame, Florida State, and Clemson. Add North Carolina State to that, there's four. As to Notre Dame, the SEC may have as good or better chance as anyone if Notre Dame unlikely decided to commit to full-time conference football.
05-23-2022 02:39 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #364
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
The more I think about going to 24 with just ACC schools, the more I'm on board with: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, and Virginia. You get all 4 annual ACC/SEC rivals for FL/GA/KY/SC, 2 basketball powerhouses in UNC/DUKE, potentially one of the highest prizes in the NIL future (Miami), and a solid "other sports" school in Virginia. Not to mention the academic side.

What about the other conferences? The B1G adds Notre Dame plus the PAC AAU. Oregon St / Washington St who join the XII with the 6 ACC leftovers plus Memphis, SMU, and South Florida.

B1G
Central: Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin
East: Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Purdue, Rutgers
West: Arizona, California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Utah, Washington

SEC
East: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

XXIV
North: Boston College, Cincinnati, North Carolina St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, TCU, Texas Tech
West: Arizona St, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Oregon St, Washington St
05-23-2022 04:19 PM
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TigerFan38134 Offline
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Post: #365
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(05-23-2022 04:19 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The more I think about going to 24 with just ACC schools, the more I'm on board with: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, and Virginia. You get all 4 annual ACC/SEC rivals for FL/GA/KY/SC, 2 basketball powerhouses in UNC/DUKE, potentially one of the highest prizes in the NIL future (Miami), and a solid "other sports" school in Virginia. Not to mention the academic side.

What about the other conferences? The B1G adds Notre Dame plus the PAC AAU. Oregon St / Washington St who join the XII with the 6 ACC leftovers plus Memphis, SMU, and South Florida.

B1G
Central: Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin
East: Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Purdue, Rutgers
West: Arizona, California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Utah, Washington

SEC
East: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

XXIV
North: Boston College, Cincinnati, North Carolina St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, TCU, Texas Tech
West: Arizona St, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Oregon St, Washington St

Do you think Duke will be the same without Coach K and North Carolina a few seasons removed from Williams? Just curious on your thoughts.
06-23-2022 04:32 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #366
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-23-2022 04:32 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  
(05-23-2022 04:19 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The more I think about going to 24 with just ACC schools, the more I'm on board with: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, and Virginia. You get all 4 annual ACC/SEC rivals for FL/GA/KY/SC, 2 basketball powerhouses in UNC/DUKE, potentially one of the highest prizes in the NIL future (Miami), and a solid "other sports" school in Virginia. Not to mention the academic side.

What about the other conferences? The B1G adds Notre Dame plus the PAC AAU. Oregon St / Washington St who join the XII with the 6 ACC leftovers plus Memphis, SMU, and South Florida.

B1G
Central: Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin
East: Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Purdue, Rutgers
West: Arizona, California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Utah, Washington

SEC
East: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

XXIV
North: Boston College, Cincinnati, North Carolina St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, TCU, Texas Tech
West: Arizona St, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Oregon St, Washington St

Do you think Duke will be the same without Coach K and North Carolina a few seasons removed from Williams? Just curious on your thoughts.

Who knows. Coach K was at Duke for 42 years of their 84 year old basketball program. 50%! How they recover is anyone’s guess but I think they’ll be okay. I see my Zags in the same boat as Duke in that once Few is gone - who knows. Schools like Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina have bounced back from coaching changes. UCLA didn’t bounce back well after losing Wooden and Indiana didn’t after losing Knight. I feel a lot better about North Carolina staying competitive than Duke.
06-23-2022 09:30 PM
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TigerFan38134 Offline
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Post: #367
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-23-2022 09:30 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  
(06-23-2022 04:32 PM)TigerFan38134 Wrote:  
(05-23-2022 04:19 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  The more I think about going to 24 with just ACC schools, the more I'm on board with: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, and Virginia. You get all 4 annual ACC/SEC rivals for FL/GA/KY/SC, 2 basketball powerhouses in UNC/DUKE, potentially one of the highest prizes in the NIL future (Miami), and a solid "other sports" school in Virginia. Not to mention the academic side.

What about the other conferences? The B1G adds Notre Dame plus the PAC AAU. Oregon St / Washington St who join the XII with the 6 ACC leftovers plus Memphis, SMU, and South Florida.

B1G
Central: Colorado, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin
East: Maryland, Michigan, Michigan St, Notre Dame, Ohio St, Penn St, Purdue, Rutgers
West: Arizona, California, Oregon, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Utah, Washington

SEC
East: Clemson, Duke, Florida St, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, North Carolina, Virginia
South: Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

XXIV
North: Boston College, Cincinnati, North Carolina St, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, West Virginia
South: Baylor, Central Florida, Houston, Memphis, SMU, South Florida, TCU, Texas Tech
West: Arizona St, BYU, Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Oregon St, Washington St

Do you think Duke will be the same without Coach K and North Carolina a few seasons removed from Williams? Just curious on your thoughts.

Who knows. Coach K was at Duke for 42 years of their 84 year old basketball program. 50%! How they recover is anyone’s guess but I think they’ll be okay. I see my Zags in the same boat as Duke in that once Few is gone - who knows. Schools like Kansas, Kentucky, and North Carolina have bounced back from coaching changes. UCLA didn’t bounce back well after losing Wooden and Indiana didn’t after losing Knight. I feel a lot better about North Carolina staying competitive than Duke.

I think NC in another season or two will drop towards the bottom of the top 25. Duke will likely do the same in a few seasons. Like you, I think NC rebounds better going forward than Duke. Williams help continue the tradition where Coach K helped to create it. Coach K only had 8 seasons with double digits in the loss column.
06-24-2022 09:04 AM
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GarnetAndBlue Offline
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Post: #368
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
While the SEC is certainly the top dog right now and into the foreseeable future...I'm interested in the B1G's next move. In spite of their current short/medium term prospects...they have to feel utterly outplayed by the SEC over the past 10-20 years in all aspects of athletics and realignment. It's hard to imagine the B1G won't attempt a bold move when the time is right. Some combination of UVA/UNC/Duke/GT/FSU? They've got the money, pride and long-term aspirations. Even if it's a contract break-even proposition (I doubt it would be)...I'd think they'd consider it just as a defensive (spiteful?) move. Curious what SEC fans think.
06-26-2022 09:06 PM
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Post: #369
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-26-2022 09:06 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  While the SEC is certainly the top dog right now and into the foreseeable future...I'm interested in the B1G's next move. In spite of their current short/medium term prospects...they have to feel utterly outplayed by the SEC over the past 10-20 years in all aspects of athletics and realignment. It's hard to imagine the B1G won't attempt a bold move when the time is right. Some combination of UVA/UNC/Duke/GT/FSU? They've got the money, pride and long-term aspirations. Even if it's a contract break-even proposition (I doubt it would be)...I'd think they'd consider it just as a defensive (spiteful?) move. Curious what SEC fans think.

Well, when Maryland departed North Carolina's first call was to Birmingham. Their concern was over additional defections to the B1G. They wanted to know if (Cunningham who was brand new as AD) the SEC would take Duke too if the worst happened to the ACC. Slive supposedly said yes.

When OU and UT were announced the same schools were inquiring again. I don't think Duke cares where they go so long as they are together. UNC donors prefer an SEC association, very much like OU's did.

in 2011 Virginia may have been in play for the Big 10 as well as Georgia Tech. Virginia's a catch. Georgia Tech has major issues. They don't carry Atlanta and Georgia carries the rest of the state at 83%. They also have revenue generation issues.

The question is if we come to movement does the SEC take Duke and UNC in order to get UVa? Likely, but not necessarily certain.

If I'm the B1G I want needle movers. Notre Dame has to be an anchor and frankly Syracuse should be looked at to nail down your regional expansion. Then you can claim Virginia. The SEC is doing UNC only a slight favor on Duke. UT and OU and the AAU's in the SEC won't complain. Virginia Tech earns the SEC more and both deliver the state of ~10 million. Who's #4? You are better off with Colorado, but that could cause issues. Kansas has better national branding but a small state. Pitt has great academics and does deliver Pittsburgh, but is in Penn State's shadow and duplicates a lot. Ga Tech's issues I've discussed. Maybe you make a run at Missouri. Maybe they are interested??? Maybe.

If we leave the NCAA or truly gain autonomy over structure then 3 regional divisions off 6 might work well or no divisions.

What I can see the SEC doing is taking Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Virginia and ESPN creating a better football product around Clemson, Miami, and FSU and quite possibly Va Tech using solid B12 football programs. This clusters some solid football in the 40-million-dollar payout range which could cover early movement.

It would create a solid window for B1G expansion with ND and Syracuse as the first 2. Snag Kansas and Missouri (no buy in) and the SEC could take Duke, Virginia, and UNC and stop at 18. The B1G could do the same. ESPN has top hoops brands in places where they can earn more. The B1G gets a white whale, a physical presence in New York, and a much-needed Western additions. The SEC gets hoops cred and a more balanced W/L record on the gridiron. ESPN merges the best of the B12 with solid ACC football for a more valuable conference. So, if ESPN keeps a slice of the B1G it's a win, win, win.

If Missouri stays (totally their choice as we want them) we go after the 4 and move to 20 while the B1G moves to 16. If the SEC can snag UNC and Duke we'll do it. If they want UVa and UVa wants to stay with them we'll do that too.

You see the SEC doesn't want a Big 10 presence in the Deep South. Stopping the B1G at North Carolina is a serious move to make sure the B1G stays NE and NW. And that has been a formal SEC contingency since 1990.
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2022 10:01 PM by JRsec.)
06-26-2022 09:56 PM
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-26-2022 09:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-26-2022 09:06 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  While the SEC is certainly the top dog right now and into the foreseeable future...I'm interested in the B1G's next move. In spite of their current short/medium term prospects...they have to feel utterly outplayed by the SEC over the past 10-20 years in all aspects of athletics and realignment. It's hard to imagine the B1G won't attempt a bold move when the time is right. Some combination of UVA/UNC/Duke/GT/FSU? They've got the money, pride and long-term aspirations. Even if it's a contract break-even proposition (I doubt it would be)...I'd think they'd consider it just as a defensive (spiteful?) move. Curious what SEC fans think.

Well, when Maryland departed North Carolina's first call was to Birmingham. Their concern was over additional defections to the B1G. They wanted to know if (Cunningham who was brand new as AD) the SEC would take Duke too if the worst happened to the ACC. Slive supposedly said yes.

When OU and UT were announced the same schools were inquiring again. I don't think Duke cares where they go so long as they are together. UNC donors prefer an SEC association, very much like OU's did.

in 2011 Virginia may have been in play for the Big 10 as well as Georgia Tech. Virginia's a catch. Georgia Tech has major issues. They don't carry Atlanta and Georgia carries the rest of the state at 83%. They also have revenue generation issues.

The question is if we come to movement does the SEC take Duke and UNC in order to get UVa? Likely, but not necessarily certain.

If I'm the B1G I want needle movers. Notre Dame has to be an anchor and frankly Syracuse should be looked at to nail down your regional expansion. Then you can claim Virginia. The SEC is doing UNC only a slight favor on Duke. UT and OU and the AAU's in the SEC won't complain. Virginia Tech earns the SEC more and both deliver the state of ~10 million. Who's #4? You are better off with Colorado, but that could cause issues. Kansas has better national branding but a small state. Pitt has great academics and does deliver Pittsburgh, but is in Penn State's shadow and duplicates a lot. Ga Tech's issues I've discussed. Maybe you make a run at Missouri. Maybe they are interested??? Maybe.

If we leave the NCAA or truly gain autonomy over structure then 3 regional divisions off 6 might work well or no divisions.

What I can see the SEC doing is taking Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Virginia and ESPN creating a better football product around Clemson, Miami, and FSU and quite possibly Va Tech using solid B12 football programs. This clusters some solid football in the 40-million-dollar payout range which could cover early movement.

It would create a solid window for B1G expansion with ND and Syracuse as the first 2. Snag Kansas and Missouri (no buy in) and the SEC could take Duke, Virginia, and UNC and stop at 18. The B1G could do the same. ESPN has top hoops brands in places where they can earn more. The B1G gets a white whale, a physical presence in New York, and a much-needed Western additions. The SEC gets hoops cred and a more balanced W/L record on the gridiron. ESPN merges the best of the B12 with solid ACC football for a more valuable conference. So, if ESPN keeps a slice of the B1G it's a win, win, win.

If Missouri stays (totally their choice as we want them) we go after the 4 and move to 20 while the B1G moves to 16. If the SEC can snag UNC and Duke we'll do it. If they want UVa and UVa wants to stay with them we'll do that too.

You see the SEC doesn't want a Big 10 presence in the Deep South. Stopping the B1G at North Carolina is a serious move to make sure the B1G stays NE and NW. And that has been a formal SEC contingency since 1990.

Has there been any chatter between Notre Dame and the SEC? I’m sure they are looking around as the ACC could quickly collapse with a few defections. Only a GOR is holding that at bay.
06-29-2022 07:44 PM
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-29-2022 07:44 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  
(06-26-2022 09:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-26-2022 09:06 PM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  While the SEC is certainly the top dog right now and into the foreseeable future...I'm interested in the B1G's next move. In spite of their current short/medium term prospects...they have to feel utterly outplayed by the SEC over the past 10-20 years in all aspects of athletics and realignment. It's hard to imagine the B1G won't attempt a bold move when the time is right. Some combination of UVA/UNC/Duke/GT/FSU? They've got the money, pride and long-term aspirations. Even if it's a contract break-even proposition (I doubt it would be)...I'd think they'd consider it just as a defensive (spiteful?) move. Curious what SEC fans think.

Well, when Maryland departed North Carolina's first call was to Birmingham. Their concern was over additional defections to the B1G. They wanted to know if (Cunningham who was brand new as AD) the SEC would take Duke too if the worst happened to the ACC. Slive supposedly said yes.

When OU and UT were announced the same schools were inquiring again. I don't think Duke cares where they go so long as they are together. UNC donors prefer an SEC association, very much like OU's did.

in 2011 Virginia may have been in play for the Big 10 as well as Georgia Tech. Virginia's a catch. Georgia Tech has major issues. They don't carry Atlanta and Georgia carries the rest of the state at 83%. They also have revenue generation issues.

The question is if we come to movement does the SEC take Duke and UNC in order to get UVa? Likely, but not necessarily certain.

If I'm the B1G I want needle movers. Notre Dame has to be an anchor and frankly Syracuse should be looked at to nail down your regional expansion. Then you can claim Virginia. The SEC is doing UNC only a slight favor on Duke. UT and OU and the AAU's in the SEC won't complain. Virginia Tech earns the SEC more and both deliver the state of ~10 million. Who's #4? You are better off with Colorado, but that could cause issues. Kansas has better national branding but a small state. Pitt has great academics and does deliver Pittsburgh, but is in Penn State's shadow and duplicates a lot. Ga Tech's issues I've discussed. Maybe you make a run at Missouri. Maybe they are interested??? Maybe.

If we leave the NCAA or truly gain autonomy over structure then 3 regional divisions off 6 might work well or no divisions.

What I can see the SEC doing is taking Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and Virginia and ESPN creating a better football product around Clemson, Miami, and FSU and quite possibly Va Tech using solid B12 football programs. This clusters some solid football in the 40-million-dollar payout range which could cover early movement.

It would create a solid window for B1G expansion with ND and Syracuse as the first 2. Snag Kansas and Missouri (no buy in) and the SEC could take Duke, Virginia, and UNC and stop at 18. The B1G could do the same. ESPN has top hoops brands in places where they can earn more. The B1G gets a white whale, a physical presence in New York, and a much-needed Western additions. The SEC gets hoops cred and a more balanced W/L record on the gridiron. ESPN merges the best of the B12 with solid ACC football for a more valuable conference. So, if ESPN keeps a slice of the B1G it's a win, win, win.

If Missouri stays (totally their choice as we want them) we go after the 4 and move to 20 while the B1G moves to 16. If the SEC can snag UNC and Duke we'll do it. If they want UVa and UVa wants to stay with them we'll do that too.

You see the SEC doesn't want a Big 10 presence in the Deep South. Stopping the B1G at North Carolina is a serious move to make sure the B1G stays NE and NW. And that has been a formal SEC contingency since 1990.

Has there been any chatter between Notre Dame and the SEC? I’m sure they are looking around as the ACC could quickly collapse with a few defections. Only a GOR is holding that at bay.

Swarbrick and Slive were friendly. Don't know about Sankey. We always have ESPN in common.
06-29-2022 08:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #372
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
I'm thinking ESPN should buy the B12 rights out.

Then merge these ACC schools with the SEC:

Deep South Protection: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Market & Brand Adds: North Carolina, Virginia/Virginia Tech, N.C. State/Duke, Notre Dame or Kansas/Louisville.

If the Irish are, as rumored, encouraging the B1G to take TCU (a school not remotely within B1G metrics) then they are worried about having no access to heavy recruiting grounds outside of Los Angeles and are making a demand with which to break a deal and not make one.

That means they are weighing exposure in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas against Los Angeles and realizing the limits the Big Ten will impose upon their pipelines.

If the SEC takes the 4 Deep South schools, we effectively slam the door on Warren's large metro game plan: Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami, and that would mean DFW would be too little too late and with too much controversy. And if Notre Dame can be flipped the party's over anyway!

ESPN should then merge the remaining ACC schools with the Big 12 and pickup the 4 Corners schools. That's 23 leaving room for San Diego State or South Florida.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2022 06:58 AM by JRsec.)
07-29-2022 06:50 AM
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GarnetAndBlue Offline
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Post: #373
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-29-2022 06:50 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm thinking ESPN should buy the B12 rights out.

Then merge these ACC schools with the SEC:

Deep South Protection: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Market & Brand Adds: North Carolina, Virginia/Virginia Tech, N.C. State/Duke, Notre Dame or Kansas/Louisville.

If the Irish are, as rumored, encouraging the B1G to take TCU (a school not remotely within B1G metrics) then they are worried about having no access to heavy recruiting grounds outside of Los Angeles and are making a demand with which to break a deal and not make one.

That means they are weighing exposure in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas against Los Angeles and realizing the limits the Big Ten will impose upon their pipelines.

If the SEC takes the 4 Deep South schools, we effectively slam the door on Warren's large metro game plan: Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami, and that would mean DFW would be too little too late and with too much controversy. And if Notre Dame can be flipped the party's over anyway!

ESPN should then merge the remaining ACC schools with the Big 12 and pickup the 4 Corners schools. That's 23 leaving room for San Diego State or South Florida.

Great thoughts. Why doesn't ND just then go to the SEC? I know the history and tradition and that's significant. But the SEC allows for both differentiation from its B1G geographic brothers and huge pipes to all points south. And the travel would be pretty darn reasonable with the nearest SEC state (KY) immediately south. Do the USC, MSU, etc rivalries trump those benefits...and perhaps they could keep playing those games. Even if not...worth considering.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2022 08:48 AM by GarnetAndBlue.)
07-29-2022 08:42 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #374
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-29-2022 08:42 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 06:50 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm thinking ESPN should buy the B12 rights out.

Then merge these ACC schools with the SEC:

Deep South Protection: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Market & Brand Adds: North Carolina, Virginia/Virginia Tech, N.C. State/Duke, Notre Dame or Kansas/Louisville.

If the Irish are, as rumored, encouraging the B1G to take TCU (a school not remotely within B1G metrics) then they are worried about having no access to heavy recruiting grounds outside of Los Angeles and are making a demand with which to break a deal and not make one.

That means they are weighing exposure in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas against Los Angeles and realizing the limits the Big Ten will impose upon their pipelines.

If the SEC takes the 4 Deep South schools, we effectively slam the door on Warren's large metro game plan: Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami, and that would mean DFW would be too little too late and with too much controversy. And if Notre Dame can be flipped the party's over anyway!

ESPN should then merge the remaining ACC schools with the Big 12 and pickup the 4 Corners schools. That's 23 leaving room for San Diego State or South Florida.

Great thoughts. Why doesn't ND just then go to the SEC? It allows for both differentiation from its B1G geographic brothers and huge pipes to all points south. Do the USC, MSU, etc rivalries trump those benefits...and perhaps they could keep playing those games. Even if not...worth considering.

There is another interesting angle which could be stabilizing to a degree. Should N.D. join the SEC, and with Kansas, profitability for the B1G to expand beyond Washington & Stanford/Oregon would no longer be possible.

We could see the Big 10 and SEC stop at 18.

The ACC could profit from TCU's market, Baylor's all sports competitiveness, Oklahoma States overall strength, Iowa State's support, Cincinnati's market and WVU's competitiveness. You could move to 20 and actually build revenue and wait.

The PAC would slip into a pre WWII configuration and we would essentially have 3 P conferences and a tweener out West.
07-29-2022 08:55 AM
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GarnetAndBlue Offline
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Post: #375
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-29-2022 08:55 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 08:42 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 06:50 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm thinking ESPN should buy the B12 rights out.

Then merge these ACC schools with the SEC:

Deep South Protection: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Market & Brand Adds: North Carolina, Virginia/Virginia Tech, N.C. State/Duke, Notre Dame or Kansas/Louisville.

If the Irish are, as rumored, encouraging the B1G to take TCU (a school not remotely within B1G metrics) then they are worried about having no access to heavy recruiting grounds outside of Los Angeles and are making a demand with which to break a deal and not make one.

That means they are weighing exposure in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas against Los Angeles and realizing the limits the Big Ten will impose upon their pipelines.

If the SEC takes the 4 Deep South schools, we effectively slam the door on Warren's large metro game plan: Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami, and that would mean DFW would be too little too late and with too much controversy. And if Notre Dame can be flipped the party's over anyway!

ESPN should then merge the remaining ACC schools with the Big 12 and pickup the 4 Corners schools. That's 23 leaving room for San Diego State or South Florida.

Great thoughts. Why doesn't ND just then go to the SEC? It allows for both differentiation from its B1G geographic brothers and huge pipes to all points south. Do the USC, MSU, etc rivalries trump those benefits...and perhaps they could keep playing those games. Even if not...worth considering.

There is another interesting angle which could be stabilizing to a degree. Should N.D. join the SEC, and with Kansas, profitability for the B1G to expand beyond Washington & Stanford/Oregon would no longer be possible.

We could see the Big 10 and SEC stop at 18.

The ACC could profit from TCU's market, Baylor's all sports competitiveness, Oklahoma States overall strength, Iowa State's support, Cincinnati's market and WVU's competitiveness. You could move to 20 and actually build revenue and wait.

The PAC would slip into a pre WWII configuration and we would essentially have 3 P conferences and a tweener out West.

Interesting. That scenario would probably spell the end of my college sports watching days, as I'd assume the revenue disparity for the ACC would continue to be a huge long-term problem for my alma mater (FSU). This re-alignment fun is my last spectator sports stand, of sorts.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2022 09:32 AM by GarnetAndBlue.)
07-29-2022 09:29 AM
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murrdcu Offline
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Post: #376
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-29-2022 09:29 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 08:55 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 08:42 AM)GarnetAndBlue Wrote:  
(07-29-2022 06:50 AM)JRsec Wrote:  I'm thinking ESPN should buy the B12 rights out.

Then merge these ACC schools with the SEC:

Deep South Protection: Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Market & Brand Adds: North Carolina, Virginia/Virginia Tech, N.C. State/Duke, Notre Dame or Kansas/Louisville.

If the Irish are, as rumored, encouraging the B1G to take TCU (a school not remotely within B1G metrics) then they are worried about having no access to heavy recruiting grounds outside of Los Angeles and are making a demand with which to break a deal and not make one.

That means they are weighing exposure in Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas against Los Angeles and realizing the limits the Big Ten will impose upon their pipelines.

If the SEC takes the 4 Deep South schools, we effectively slam the door on Warren's large metro game plan: Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami, and that would mean DFW would be too little too late and with too much controversy. And if Notre Dame can be flipped the party's over anyway!

ESPN should then merge the remaining ACC schools with the Big 12 and pickup the 4 Corners schools. That's 23 leaving room for San Diego State or South Florida.

Great thoughts. Why doesn't ND just then go to the SEC? It allows for both differentiation from its B1G geographic brothers and huge pipes to all points south. Do the USC, MSU, etc rivalries trump those benefits...and perhaps they could keep playing those games. Even if not...worth considering.

There is another interesting angle which could be stabilizing to a degree. Should N.D. join the SEC, and with Kansas, profitability for the B1G to expand beyond Washington & Stanford/Oregon would no longer be possible.

We could see the Big 10 and SEC stop at 18.

The ACC could profit from TCU's market, Baylor's all sports competitiveness, Oklahoma States overall strength, Iowa State's support, Cincinnati's market and WVU's competitiveness. You could move to 20 and actually build revenue and wait.

The PAC would slip into a pre WWII configuration and we would essentially have 3 P conferences and a tweener out West.

Interesting. That scenario would probably spell the end of my college sports watching days, as I'd assume the revenue disparity for the ACC would continue to be a huge long-term problem for my alma mater (FSU). This re-alignment fun is my last spectator sports stand, of sorts.

I see the SEC, Big Ten, AND the Big 12 working together to break up the ACC GOR—assuming that is possible.

Let’s assume Notre Dame stays independent. If the ACC folds, only the Big 12 would consider giving them partial membership status.

Let’s see who grabs what:
SEC: FSU, Clem, UVA, UNC, Duke, VT and two Big 12 schools
B1G: Oregon, Wash, Stanford, Georgia Tech.
Big 12: Az, ASU, Utah, ND*, Syracuse, Louisville, NC St, Miami

ACC left with BC, Pitt, WF
PAC left with Cal, OSU, WSU.
07-29-2022 11:50 PM
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