(02-05-2020 08:51 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(02-03-2020 02:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  As we move into the next round of Media contracts with the SEC set to move to at least a per team payout of 65 million (based on our 44.6 million payout for this past year). I have to wonder if the Big 12 is the only conference truly vulnerable in 2024-5 or whether the ACC facing gaps of up to 30 million in media revenue with the SEC and Big 10, which will also be sporting a new media contract, will have a significant number of schools that might like to have the opportunity to be counted among the members of either of those conferences rather than the ACC. Almost 400 million in media payouts over the next 13 years before the ACC gets to renew their existing contracts has to be pause for concern of even their core founding schools.

Would the balance for the future of college sports not be better served if the SEC and Big 10 grew out of the ACC and the Big 12 was strengthened with their key sports schools?

Let the SEC and Big 10 move to 16 members out of the ACC but without touching the key programs of Clemson and Florida State.

What if the Big 10 expanded practically with an addition of New York school and former AAU member Syracuse and added Notre Dame shoring up their advertising advantage in many key Northern Midwestern and Northeastern cities?

What if the SEC picked up the states of Virginia and North Carolina with UNC and Virginia? These are great academic adds for the SEC and strong basketball brands and they add 20 million to our existing footprint.

And what if the Big 10 did take basketball giant Kansas from the current Big 12 during their GOR expiration? Would the Big 10 be well served to pick up such a brand? Especially if they added Virginia Tech to go with them picking up that market and a large land grant school which is closer to AAU membership than an Oklahoma?

And what if the SEC added T.C.U. to have a presence in the DFW market and added Duke to pick up another basketball blueblood?

The Big 12 would then have 8 members: Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and West Virginia.

They could pick up Louisville, Boston College and Pittsburgh and add them to West Virginia.

They could pick up Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, and North Carolina State as well.

Miami could be added to Baylor, Texas and Texas Tech to create a cross Gulf division.

Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would make up the rest of the 16.

If they wanted to grow further they have Brigham Young and Wake Forest to consider.

The ACC is completely absorbed. The old core gets the doubling of their sports media revenue. Notre Dame, Syracuse and Virginia Tech have theirs doubled as well. Kansas gets a substantial raise as does T.C.U..

The addition of the football first schools of the ACC to the current Big 12 not only gives them the market penetration they need but also creates content value which drives up their revenue as well which is already higher than that of the ACC.

Everybody wins and not having Texas and Oklahoma headed to the Big 10 or SEC actually preserves a kind of balance within the college football upper tier.

Whether the PAC makes additions or not everyone is provided for.

With three 18 member conferences and the PAC remaining at 12 we move from a 65 member P5 to a 66 member P4 and now the CFP can become a champs only affair.

If ESPN acquires all of the rights to the Big 12 they make more money from the product and their loss of 51% of the access to Virginia Tech and Syracuse is easily offset by their 100% access to Texas and Oklahoma. Kansas is slightly over a 50% product for them now so no major change happens there, and Notre Dame is only a 5/12ths product of ESPN so not a great loss there either.

If the ACC schools want to play catch up in media revenue this is the most comprehensive and productive way to do so.

SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?

To add another wrinkle, If Vanderbilt decides that performing at this level is not what they want then they could leave the SEC as well. That would be consistent with their approach in recent years and I'm starting to think the SEC will put pressure on them to pull more of their own weight. If a guy like Malcolm Turner can't inspire them to change their philosophy then I don't know what will.

There's a mathematical reality that Vanderbilt is well below the SEC averages on revenue and spending. It's nothing personal against them and I certainly enjoy having Vandy in the league, but it's important that each member put their best foot forward if we're all going to enjoy equal revenue.

If they were to drop down to a more desirable league then we also need a private school to replace them. In the above scenario, Duke performs that role or TCU performs that role.

The main premise here is that alters the numbers. Vanderbilt has tangential value, but they drag the media revenue down. If you remove them from the equation then that opens up additional possibilities.

For one, in order to properly parse out the ACC then I think you're going to have to find a better or at least more stable home for virtually every school. Out of 15 schools, I think you'd need what...12 to break the GOR? Assuming ESPN is doing their thing behind closed doors then moving the pieces around shouldn't be too difficult. The only challenge is making sure the schools are given proper incentive to let the ACC pass. For most, that wouldn't be a problem, but others are more challenging.

If the powers that be can agree that building a new league around Texas and Oklahoma is the way to go then let's examine how to make that league as strong and as viable as possible.

There would be a few non-negotiable positions. Most of the Big 12 would have to stay intact, but not necessarily all of it. Texas will go to some effort to protect their in-state schools and they may do it if for no more reason than to ensure another TX school doesn't have SEC money flowing in. This isn't a deal-breaker, but let's assume for a moment that UT's opening offer includes all TX schools remaining in the Big 12. I think we can assume Oklahoma would feel the same way.

The combo of Kansas and Kansas State is a little different just because the local politics might not matter and it's entirely feasible that neither the SEC nor the Big Ten would make that call anyway in a scenario where ACC schools can be had. Iowa State doesn't have anywhere else to go. The only other school that sticks out as odd is West Virginia. That's not to suggest other leagues are beating the door down to get them, but the Big 12 powers aren't going to worry about losing them.

So let's say there are certain ACC schools that need to be funneled into the Big 12 for it to work. The list is pretty obvious. It starts with Florida State and Clemson. Miami helps. Louisville helps. Georgia Tech helps a little bit. Pittsburgh doesn't hurt really, but they're not essential here. Boston College doesn't really help anyone except maybe the Big Ten and even that is questionable. The quad of schools in NC have to be figured out simply because they've been tied together for so long, but in all honesty no one wants Wake Forest. Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Notre Dame are schools that should appeal to the Big Ten so let's reserve them for that destination.

What does the SEC want out of this? They want more money, certainly. I'm sure they want access to the populations of NC and VA. These are fast growing states with good schools. Accessing them will help in a myriad of ways even if their athletic revenues aren't necessarily top notch.

Let's say that Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke are the baseline that the SEC will accept. They can get value out of these schools and states. Their private school need is met by Duke since the departure of Vanderbilt creating a void. If they added these 3 in the wake of Vandy then they're at 16 already.

The Big Ten has 3 strong additions in Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. They need a 4th addition, however. The SEC on the other hand could rest at an even 16, but given the nature of the additions, it is probably best to match the Big Ten's numbers.

The only real thing the SEC could want from this position is expansion into Texas or perhaps Oklahoma. The Big Ten needs more exposure from the Eastern seaboard.

Texas could then allow TCU to come out from under their wings, but in exchange they want fewer rather than more schools from the East. They still want to maintain a strong voting bloc in their corner. With the loss of TCU from that wing, they need to leave out a school from the East that would be tempted to vote against them anyway.

In a surprise move, the leaders of the state of GA along with UGA would like Georgia Tech to move with them. The SEC is good with it because they replace one AAU school lost(Vanderbilt) with another. They get back an old rival that catches the attention of other legacy schools in the region even if the fan base is somewhat tepid. They make the old ACC bloc feel a little better as well given the presence of more representation. Perhaps most importantly, the Big Ten gains no access to the major media market of Atlanta.

So now we've got the SEC finished out at 18. The additions are Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, and TCU.

The Big Ten finishes out as well with NC State. It's another solid school in a growing market that isn't too far outside their new core. They stop at 18 with the additions of Notre Dame, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and NC State.

The Big 12 lines up like this:

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State in the West

In the East they acquire Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, and Pittsburgh. West Virginia may have been expandable, but it wasn't necessary. They fit in well and tie the room together. The league rests at 14.

Wake Forest and Boston College are left out, but the movement of Vanderbilt helps facilitate other moves that make everyone else a little happier. The ACC can easily be broken with 13 schools voting to dissolve and each of the 13 has found either a more prosperous or at least more stable home.

As for the schools that have moved down, I think they simply join the American and expand the content possibilities.

West: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Wake Forest, East Carolina, Temple, Boston College

I was speaking today with an academic from the Big 10. His hesitation was with Syracuse. He doesn't believe the Big 10 would take them. So perhaps in a scenario where Vanderbilt was opting out we could assume that Boston College and Wake might as well since both are on record as being opposed to pay for play.

So let's just cut off the Big 10 with Notre Dame and Virginia Tech to 16. And let's just cut off the SEC with Virginia, North Carolina and Duke.

Now let's look at the Big 12's options:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State
Iowa State, Kansas State, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech
Baylor, Miami, T.C.U., Texas

Out: Louisville, Boston College, Syracuse, Wake Forest

While that makes for 3 even healthier conferences, what it does not do is satisfactorily solve the GOR for the ACC.

This is why I moved to 18.

So for the sake of argument lets assume we keep Vanderbilt and that Wake Forest has to have an option, as do Louisville, Syracuse, and Boston College.

If my friend is correct and I trust him to know then Syracuse needs to be replaced in the Big 10.

So for the moment let's assume that some movement from the Big 12 will occur. T.C.U. seems logical for the SEC as Tech is too far, and Baylor is too historic to leave the Big 12 and neither Lubbock nor Waco would be of interest without Austin.

The SEC keeps T.C.U., Virginia, Duke and North Carolina.
The Big 10 keeps Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, and Kansas but Missouri takes this opportunity to have a more familiar schedule and to drive their donations and to help them with enrollment from Illinois.

Now the SEC will need a solid concession to make this work for us. We aren't interested in OSU, KSU or ISU and WVU doesn't add enough. Taking N.C. State triple dips a small market. We could take Georgia Tech back but they really don't add much more athletically than Vanderbilt does. They have solid baseball, but not much else and Georgia truly delivers 85% of the state. We could take Miami, but it is small only controls about 15% of the Florida college football viewers market and culturally they are more Big East than anything else.

Here's where to make this work the SEC has to insist on something of value. Here's where Florida State becomes part of our compensation package. Missouri is 6 million of a captured audience and AAU. Florida State is a second Florida school, but the one that gives us 83% of the college football viewers in that state and raises our advertising leverage because of it.

Now let's look at those groups:

Big 10:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin

SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Florida State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

B12:
Clemson, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech



The Big 12 still gets access to Georgia and Florida recruiting. They still grow their footprint massively in the Northeast and Southeast, and they still preserve their key core schools.

I actually like this one even more than the one I suggested above and it would likely be amenable to the Big 10.

Was thinking about this earlier today...

IF BYU is in serious consideration for a P5 slot, and IF Vanderbilt was seriously thinking about abandoning football, and IF Texas and Oklahoma prefer to stay in the Big 12, and IF ESPN would rather build a league around those 2 schools then what about something like this?

-The Big Ten adds 4 in Notre Dame, Virginia, Kansas, and Missouri. They are finished at 18.

-The SEC has lost one member and we're assuming Vanderbilt is going to drop down in football. From there, some key properties from the ACC are gained: North Carolina, Duke, NC State, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and TCU are added as full members.

Wake Forest is added as well, but as an associate member. Vanderbilt joins them in that classification. The SEC is finished at 18 full members with 2 associates.

-The Big 12 is rebuilt around UT and OU along with some key powers from the ACC: They add Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, and BYU.

They have to replace 2 members here, but they dump some duplicate markets in exchange for what they receive. They finish out at 16.

If the SEC were to be able to draw any schools away from the ACC it should be: Florida State, Clemson and Miami (to replace the departing and unwanted Vanderbilt).
There should be no further discussion.
Florida State and Clemson are the most SEC like in their approach to football. Plus they are the two biggest stadium schools in the ACC which would allow them to compete, dollar wise, in the middle of the SEC.
In Miami, playing in a pro stadium, and offering some pizzazz to the SEC could and would be competitive in the SEC and secure the entire state for viewership and recruiting.
Should Missouri also depart, which I think is logical, the ACC replacement should be Louisville. Rabid football fans with an expandable stadium, top ten baseball, and a basketball program to challenge Kentucky. Louisville basketball would give relevance to Kentucky and Tennessee (since those two struggle and will continue to struggle to recruit SEC caliber football players) in the modern SEC.


Miami, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Tennessee
Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Louisville, Kentucky.

West Virginia and Vanderbilt join the ACC to become a 12 team league, and Missouri rejoins the Big 12 to boost them back to 10.

The SEC would be the undisputed king of college football and would routinely place three teams in an expanded 8 team college football playoff.

(02-25-2020 06:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the SEC were to be able to draw any schools away from the ACC it should be: Florida State, Clemson and Miami (to replace the departing and unwanted Vanderbilt).
There should be no further discussion.
Florida State and Clemson are the most SEC like in their approach to football. Plus they are the two biggest stadium schools in the ACC which would allow them to compete, dollar wise, in the middle of the SEC.
In Miami, playing in a pro stadium, and offering some pizzazz to the SEC could and would be competitive in the SEC and secure the entire state for viewership and recruiting.
Should Missouri also depart, which I think is logical, the ACC replacement should be Louisville. Rabid football fans with an expandable stadium, top ten baseball, and a basketball program to challenge Kentucky. Louisville basketball would give relevance to Kentucky and Tennessee (since those two struggle and will continue to struggle to recruit SEC caliber football players) in the modern SEC.


Miami, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Tennessee
Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Louisville, Kentucky.

West Virginia and Vanderbilt join the ACC to become a 12 team league, and Missouri rejoins the Big 12 to boost them back to 10.

The SEC would be the undisputed king of college football and would routinely place three teams in an expanded 8 team college football playoff.

I won't critique your team choices, as we all have our favorites. However, I think your "three teams in an eight team playoff" shows why the plan is flawed. Imagine if the three SEC teams were Alabama, LSU, and Texas A&M. That is a third place team in the division, much less the conference. The same could happen in the east with Georgia/Clemson/Florida.

The SEC championship game would no longer matter. In fact, a scenario could exist where:

Georgia 11-1

Alabama 11-1 (with a loss to say Auburn)
LSU 11-1 (with a loss to Alabama)
Texas A&M 10-2 (only losses to LSU and Alabama)

LSU at 11-1 is basically locked in to the playoff because they don't have to play in the SEC championship game, and now that game hurts the loser more than helps the winner. Without the game, Georgia, Alabama and LSU are in. With it, the SEC winner is in, LSU is in, and depending on the score, all of a sudden Texas A&M jumps in.

Also, I think the domino effects of that result would be pretty awful:

3 SEC teams in the playoffs
Sugar Bowl is now 4th place team!
Capital One is 5th place?
Gator/Outback are 6th and 7th place! (Yes, I know they are in the Group of 6, but I still see them as one step above the rest)

(02-25-2020 01:02 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(02-25-2020 06:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  If the SEC were to be able to draw any schools away from the ACC it should be: Florida State, Clemson and Miami (to replace the departing and unwanted Vanderbilt).
There should be no further discussion.
Florida State and Clemson are the most SEC like in their approach to football. Plus they are the two biggest stadium schools in the ACC which would allow them to compete, dollar wise, in the middle of the SEC.
In Miami, playing in a pro stadium, and offering some pizzazz to the SEC could and would be competitive in the SEC and secure the entire state for viewership and recruiting.
Should Missouri also depart, which I think is logical, the ACC replacement should be Louisville. Rabid football fans with an expandable stadium, top ten baseball, and a basketball program to challenge Kentucky. Louisville basketball would give relevance to Kentucky and Tennessee (since those two struggle and will continue to struggle to recruit SEC caliber football players) in the modern SEC.


Miami, Florida, Florida State, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Tennessee
Texas A&M, LSU, Alabama, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Arkansas, Louisville, Kentucky.

West Virginia and Vanderbilt join the ACC to become a 12 team league, and Missouri rejoins the Big 12 to boost them back to 10.

The SEC would be the undisputed king of college football and would routinely place three teams in an expanded 8 team college football playoff.

I won't critique your team choices, as we all have our favorites. However, I think your "three teams in an eight team playoff" shows why the plan is flawed. Imagine if the three SEC teams were Alabama, LSU, and Texas A&M. That is a third place team in the division, much less the conference. The same could happen in the east with Georgia/Clemson/Florida.

The SEC championship game would no longer matter. In fact, a scenario could exist where:

Georgia 11-1

Alabama 11-1 (with a loss to say Auburn)
LSU 11-1 (with a loss to Alabama)
Texas A&M 10-2 (only losses to LSU and Alabama)

LSU at 11-1 is basically locked in to the playoff because they don't have to play in the SEC championship game, and now that game hurts the loser more than helps the winner. Without the game, Georgia, Alabama and LSU are in. With it, the SEC winner is in, LSU is in, and depending on the score, all of a sudden Texas A&M jumps in.

Also, I think the domino effects of that result would be pretty awful:

3 SEC teams in the playoffs
Sugar Bowl is now 4th place team!
Capital One is 5th place?
Gator/Outback are 6th and 7th place! (Yes, I know they are in the Group of 6, but I still see them as one step above the rest)

You are lost in the minutiae and are overlooking the big picture.

With the onset of the reality of living with COVID 19 dynamics may change. If we do emphasize playing a more local schedule, if the SEC's new contract does put it in the upper 60 million per school in payout range, and if ESPN and Texas continue their standoff on Horn movement, then the fortunes of the present ACC might indeed change again.

What we know:

1. Texas prefers to keep things together in the Big 12 and prefers keeping Oklahoma close. In the new dynamic travel to Big 10 or PAC destinations seems even more unrealistic than they did in December of 2019.

2. ESPN has shown no indication of being willing to let Texas go.

3. The Big 10 renews their contract in 2024 and will likely be making within the range of the new SEC contract.

4. The ACC is still stuck until 2037 with an inferior media payout and the ACCN couldn't have gotten off to a worse start amid the virus outbreak. Still it will likely earn them enough to stay ahead of the PAC but behind the Big 12 in payouts.

5. ESPN really doesn't want to place large states solidly in the hands of a particular conference and prefers to be able to access very large markets through multiple conferences under their control. It is their way of trying in multiple regions to the largest markets.

So in light of these considerations lets assume that ESPN at least has doubts about the ability of the ACC to maximize their investment and that they are faced now with a Texas which will dig its heels in about staying put more than ever considering the new reality and its issues with travel

How do you accommodate UT's wishes, maximize revenues without conceding control of large market states to one conference, and increase your inventory? Well first you look at which properties within each conference are the value bringers, particularly in football.

The Big 12 has two top 7 programs. The ACC has 1 and that one is there in part due to the buyout of Fisher's contract and large one time donations. Beyond that they have one other top 20 program. The SEC has 6 of the top 12 programs in the nation. We aren't hurting. The Big 10 has 4 of the top 12. The PAC has 1 in the top 20 and in the new reality they are as isolated as ever.

ESPN pays Texas 15 million a year on average to hold onto them. How can they continue to do that without having them playing more brands that can multiply their value? They can't. Something has to give.

It won't be the SEC which is the most valuable college sports product available to the networks. It likely won't be Texas whose only reasonable destination is the SEC, and then likely with Oklahoma, which would totally tilt the value table of the P5.

If keeping things relatively local is important, if balance in value and competition is preferred, and if profits from existing rights are to be maximized what can accomplish all of these objectives?

Well the weakest link in the ACC. They have valuable parts but don't function particularly well as a whole.

These in ascending order are the least valuable programs as a football product in the ACC:
1. Duke $67,505,331
2. Wake Forest $76,590,240
3. Boston College $81,051,159
4. Pittsburgh $112,942,437
5. Syracuse $121,057,725
6. Virginia $134,926,313

The ACC Average Value is $169,926,416 so all of these schools are below the ACC's average value and are dragging down the overall value of the other schools.

In the SEC the two lowest valuations are those of Vanderbilt $81,494,537 and Missouri $122,333,162.

These 6 schools are at or above the value levels of the schools in the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma:
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Virginia Tech
4. Georgia Tech
5. Miami
6. N.C. State
7. Louisville

So if you are ESPN you have these strong personalities to deal with in the ACC: North Carolina, Virginia, and Duke all with stellar academic ability, long standing basketball clout, strong political ties, but little baseline football values.

You have the schools listed above with little value to either the Big 10 or SEC but which had their greatest value when part of the old Big East: Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

You also have the Research Triangle relationships that the State of North Carolina will want to keep together.

So lets start with the enhancement of the Big 12:

The product which adds value to there conference would be:
Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami, and sans N.C. State which needs to stay with Duke and North Carolina, Louisville.

The Big 12 if it is in ESPN's hands could be enhanced in value and branding this way:
Iowa State, Louisville, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

The SEC would love to have a presence in North Carolina, but they would love 3 schools from North Carolina. But they would love to improve both their hoops and academic profile. But how do you fit in 3 schools?

1. Vanderbilt the least valuable SEC product and one facing space problems on campus, and which doesn't have a desire to go all in with football agrees to become the first SEC partial. This opens room for Duke, North Carolina and N.C. State.

2. Duke agrees to become the partial for football, Vanderbilt remains as is and North Carolina and N.C. State join in full.

So the SEC might look like this:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt or Duke as a partial

Now for the cost of this move:

ESPN gives up the pursuit of Notre Dame in order to get and keep all of Texas and Oklahoma. They only really lose 5 games every two years from the Irish so this is a no brainer. Virginia is a high profile top flite academic stalwart. The Big 10 would love a presence in that state and have always coveted Notre Dame who takes double the money with the breakup of the ACC which was going to be inevitable at some point in the future due to the disparity of revenue.

The rest:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse rejoin the Big East in all sports but Football where they join UConn as Northeastern independents. Wake either joins them, or works out a deal as a partial with the SEC.

The Big 10 becomes this:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Rutgers
Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin
Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern

The PAC remains as is.

If Notre Dame balks and seeks to remain a partial perhaps they do so in the Big 12. In that case Missouri joins Virginia in the Big 10. Virginia Tech takes Missouri's place in the SEC and B.Y.U. joins the Big 12. The divisions wouldn't be as clean but the moves still work.

SEC:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M

Big 10:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern

Big 12:
Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Brigham Young, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
* Notre Dame as a partial

(05-04-2020 05:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With the onset of the reality of living with COVID 19 dynamics may change. If we do emphasize playing a more local schedule, if the SEC's new contract does put it in the upper 60 million per school in payout range, and if ESPN and Texas continue their standoff on Horn movement, then the fortunes of the present ACC might indeed change again.

What we know:

1. Texas prefers to keep things together in the Big 12 and prefers keeping Oklahoma close. In the new dynamic travel to Big 10 or PAC destinations seems even more unrealistic than they did in December of 2019.

2. ESPN has shown no indication of being willing to let Texas go.

3. The Big 10 renews their contract in 2024 and will likely be making within the range of the new SEC contract.

4. The ACC is still stuck until 2037 with an inferior media payout and the ACCN couldn't have gotten off to a worse start amid the virus outbreak. Still it will likely earn them enough to stay ahead of the PAC but behind the Big 12 in payouts.

5. ESPN really doesn't want to place large states solidly in the hands of a particular conference and prefers to be able to access very large markets through multiple conferences under their control. It is their way of trying in multiple regions to the largest markets.

So in light of these considerations lets assume that ESPN at least has doubts about the ability of the ACC to maximize their investment and that they are faced now with a Texas which will dig its heels in about staying put more than ever considering the new reality and its issues with travel

How do you accommodate UT's wishes, maximize revenues without conceding control of large market states to one conference, and increase your inventory? Well first you look at which properties within each conference are the value bringers, particularly in football.

The Big 12 has two top 7 programs. The ACC has 1 and that one is there in part due to the buyout of Fisher's contract and large one time donations. Beyond that they have one other top 20 program. The SEC has 6 of the top 12 programs in the nation. We aren't hurting. The Big 10 has 4 of the top 12. The PAC has 1 in the top 20 and in the new reality they are as isolated as ever.

ESPN pays Texas 15 million a year on average to hold onto them. How can they continue to do that without having them playing more brands that can multiply their value? They can't. Something has to give.

It won't be the SEC which is the most valuable college sports product available to the networks. It likely won't be Texas whose only reasonable destination is the SEC, and then likely with Oklahoma, which would totally tilt the value table of the P5.

If keeping things relatively local is important, if balance in value and competition is preferred, and if profits from existing rights are to be maximized what can accomplish all of these objectives?

Well the weakest link in the ACC. They have valuable parts but don't function particularly well as a whole.

These in ascending order are the least valuable programs as a football product in the ACC:
1. Duke $67,505,331
2. Wake Forest $76,590,240
3. Boston College $81,051,159
4. Pittsburgh $112,942,437
5. Syracuse $121,057,725
6. Virginia $134,926,313

The ACC Average Value is $169,926,416 so all of these schools are below the ACC's average value and are dragging down the overall value of the other schools.

In the SEC the two lowest valuations are those of Vanderbilt $81,494,537 and Missouri $122,333,162.

These 6 schools are at or above the value levels of the schools in the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma:
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Virginia Tech
4. Georgia Tech
5. Miami
6. N.C. State
7. Louisville

So if you are ESPN you have these strong personalities to deal with in the ACC: North Carolina, Virginia, and Duke all with stellar academic ability, long standing basketball clout, strong political ties, but little baseline football values.

You have the schools listed above with little value to either the Big 10 or SEC but which had their greatest value when part of the old Big East: Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

You also have the Research Triangle relationships that the State of North Carolina will want to keep together.

So lets start with the enhancement of the Big 12:

The product which adds value to there conference would be:
Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami, and sans N.C. State which needs to stay with Duke and North Carolina, Louisville.

The Big 12 if it is in ESPN's hands could be enhanced in value and branding this way:
Iowa State, Louisville, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

The SEC would love to have a presence in North Carolina, but they would love 3 schools from North Carolina. But they would love to improve both their hoops and academic profile. But how do you fit in 3 schools?

1. Vanderbilt the least valuable SEC product and one facing space problems on campus, and which doesn't have a desire to go all in with football agrees to become the first SEC partial. This opens room for Duke, North Carolina and N.C. State.

2. Duke agrees to become the partial for football, Vanderbilt remains as is and North Carolina and N.C. State join in full.

So the SEC might look like this:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt or Duke as a partial

Now for the cost of this move:

ESPN gives up the pursuit of Notre Dame in order to get and keep all of Texas and Oklahoma. They only really lose 5 games every two years from the Irish so this is a no brainer. Virginia is a high profile top flite academic stalwart. The Big 10 would love a presence in that state and have always coveted Notre Dame who takes double the money with the breakup of the ACC which was going to be inevitable at some point in the future due to the disparity of revenue.

The rest:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse rejoin the Big East in all sports but Football where they join UConn as Northeastern independents. Wake either joins them, or works out a deal as a partial with the SEC.

The Big 10 becomes this:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Rutgers
Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin
Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern

The PAC remains as is.

If Notre Dame balks and seeks to remain a partial perhaps they do so in the Big 12. In that case Missouri joins Virginia in the Big 10. Virginia Tech takes Missouri's place in the SEC and B.Y.U. joins the Big 12. The divisions wouldn't be as clean but the moves still work.

SEC:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M

Big 10:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern

Big 12:
Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Brigham Young, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
* Notre Dame as a partial

Working with the NC schools is what makes this possibility so interesting. They have a desire to stay together, but a divergence in priority.

I could see Vanderbilt either dropping football or completely de-emphasizing it. Wake Forest is in that boat too. If the Research Triangle wants to move here in unison then Wake might as well stick with them. If Vandy is interested too then that evens the numbers.

(05-05-2020 02:57 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2020 05:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With the onset of the reality of living with COVID 19 dynamics may change. If we do emphasize playing a more local schedule, if the SEC's new contract does put it in the upper 60 million per school in payout range, and if ESPN and Texas continue their standoff on Horn movement, then the fortunes of the present ACC might indeed change again.

What we know:

1. Texas prefers to keep things together in the Big 12 and prefers keeping Oklahoma close. In the new dynamic travel to Big 10 or PAC destinations seems even more unrealistic than they did in December of 2019.

2. ESPN has shown no indication of being willing to let Texas go.

3. The Big 10 renews their contract in 2024 and will likely be making within the range of the new SEC contract.

4. The ACC is still stuck until 2037 with an inferior media payout and the ACCN couldn't have gotten off to a worse start amid the virus outbreak. Still it will likely earn them enough to stay ahead of the PAC but behind the Big 12 in payouts.

5. ESPN really doesn't want to place large states solidly in the hands of a particular conference and prefers to be able to access very large markets through multiple conferences under their control. It is their way of trying in multiple regions to the largest markets.

So in light of these considerations lets assume that ESPN at least has doubts about the ability of the ACC to maximize their investment and that they are faced now with a Texas which will dig its heels in about staying put more than ever considering the new reality and its issues with travel

How do you accommodate UT's wishes, maximize revenues without conceding control of large market states to one conference, and increase your inventory? Well first you look at which properties within each conference are the value bringers, particularly in football.

The Big 12 has two top 7 programs. The ACC has 1 and that one is there in part due to the buyout of Fisher's contract and large one time donations. Beyond that they have one other top 20 program. The SEC has 6 of the top 12 programs in the nation. We aren't hurting. The Big 10 has 4 of the top 12. The PAC has 1 in the top 20 and in the new reality they are as isolated as ever.

ESPN pays Texas 15 million a year on average to hold onto them. How can they continue to do that without having them playing more brands that can multiply their value? They can't. Something has to give.

It won't be the SEC which is the most valuable college sports product available to the networks. It likely won't be Texas whose only reasonable destination is the SEC, and then likely with Oklahoma, which would totally tilt the value table of the P5.

If keeping things relatively local is important, if balance in value and competition is preferred, and if profits from existing rights are to be maximized what can accomplish all of these objectives?

Well the weakest link in the ACC. They have valuable parts but don't function particularly well as a whole.

These in ascending order are the least valuable programs as a football product in the ACC:
1. Duke $67,505,331
2. Wake Forest $76,590,240
3. Boston College $81,051,159
4. Pittsburgh $112,942,437
5. Syracuse $121,057,725
6. Virginia $134,926,313

The ACC Average Value is $169,926,416 so all of these schools are below the ACC's average value and are dragging down the overall value of the other schools.

In the SEC the two lowest valuations are those of Vanderbilt $81,494,537 and Missouri $122,333,162.

These 6 schools are at or above the value levels of the schools in the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma:
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Virginia Tech
4. Georgia Tech
5. Miami
6. N.C. State
7. Louisville

So if you are ESPN you have these strong personalities to deal with in the ACC: North Carolina, Virginia, and Duke all with stellar academic ability, long standing basketball clout, strong political ties, but little baseline football values.

You have the schools listed above with little value to either the Big 10 or SEC but which had their greatest value when part of the old Big East: Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

You also have the Research Triangle relationships that the State of North Carolina will want to keep together.

So lets start with the enhancement of the Big 12:

The product which adds value to there conference would be:
Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami, and sans N.C. State which needs to stay with Duke and North Carolina, Louisville.

The Big 12 if it is in ESPN's hands could be enhanced in value and branding this way:
Iowa State, Louisville, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

The SEC would love to have a presence in North Carolina, but they would love 3 schools from North Carolina. But they would love to improve both their hoops and academic profile. But how do you fit in 3 schools?

1. Vanderbilt the least valuable SEC product and one facing space problems on campus, and which doesn't have a desire to go all in with football agrees to become the first SEC partial. This opens room for Duke, North Carolina and N.C. State.

2. Duke agrees to become the partial for football, Vanderbilt remains as is and North Carolina and N.C. State join in full.

So the SEC might look like this:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt or Duke as a partial

Now for the cost of this move:

ESPN gives up the pursuit of Notre Dame in order to get and keep all of Texas and Oklahoma. They only really lose 5 games every two years from the Irish so this is a no brainer. Virginia is a high profile top flite academic stalwart. The Big 10 would love a presence in that state and have always coveted Notre Dame who takes double the money with the breakup of the ACC which was going to be inevitable at some point in the future due to the disparity of revenue.

The rest:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse rejoin the Big East in all sports but Football where they join UConn as Northeastern independents. Wake either joins them, or works out a deal as a partial with the SEC.

The Big 10 becomes this:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Rutgers
Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin
Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern

The PAC remains as is.

If Notre Dame balks and seeks to remain a partial perhaps they do so in the Big 12. In that case Missouri joins Virginia in the Big 10. Virginia Tech takes Missouri's place in the SEC and B.Y.U. joins the Big 12. The divisions wouldn't be as clean but the moves still work.

SEC:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M

Big 10:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern

Big 12:
Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Brigham Young, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
* Notre Dame as a partial

Working with the NC schools is what makes this possibility so interesting. They have a desire to stay together, but a divergence in priority.

I could see Vanderbilt either dropping football or completely de-emphasizing it. Wake Forest is in that boat too. If the Research Triangle wants to move here in unison then Wake might as well stick with them. If Vandy is interested too then that evens the numbers.

Here's the deal, if you have Kansas and Missouri head to the Big 10 so the SEC can take in Va Tech for the markets and a solid sports school, and if Vanderbilt and Wake were willing to be partials then this would work quite nicely:

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest

But to make it work without issue Vandy and Wake would have to agree to 1/2 voting status. There's no way the SEC agrees to let UNC bring a voting block which with just North Carolina school support could block the rest the of the conference wanting to accomplish something. That's one thing that has plagued the ACC.

Carolina's perk is getting to include all of their buds.

(05-05-2020 07:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-05-2020 02:57 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2020 05:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With the onset of the reality of living with COVID 19 dynamics may change. If we do emphasize playing a more local schedule, if the SEC's new contract does put it in the upper 60 million per school in payout range, and if ESPN and Texas continue their standoff on Horn movement, then the fortunes of the present ACC might indeed change again.

What we know:

1. Texas prefers to keep things together in the Big 12 and prefers keeping Oklahoma close. In the new dynamic travel to Big 10 or PAC destinations seems even more unrealistic than they did in December of 2019.

2. ESPN has shown no indication of being willing to let Texas go.

3. The Big 10 renews their contract in 2024 and will likely be making within the range of the new SEC contract.

4. The ACC is still stuck until 2037 with an inferior media payout and the ACCN couldn't have gotten off to a worse start amid the virus outbreak. Still it will likely earn them enough to stay ahead of the PAC but behind the Big 12 in payouts.

5. ESPN really doesn't want to place large states solidly in the hands of a particular conference and prefers to be able to access very large markets through multiple conferences under their control. It is their way of trying in multiple regions to the largest markets.

So in light of these considerations lets assume that ESPN at least has doubts about the ability of the ACC to maximize their investment and that they are faced now with a Texas which will dig its heels in about staying put more than ever considering the new reality and its issues with travel

How do you accommodate UT's wishes, maximize revenues without conceding control of large market states to one conference, and increase your inventory? Well first you look at which properties within each conference are the value bringers, particularly in football.

The Big 12 has two top 7 programs. The ACC has 1 and that one is there in part due to the buyout of Fisher's contract and large one time donations. Beyond that they have one other top 20 program. The SEC has 6 of the top 12 programs in the nation. We aren't hurting. The Big 10 has 4 of the top 12. The PAC has 1 in the top 20 and in the new reality they are as isolated as ever.

ESPN pays Texas 15 million a year on average to hold onto them. How can they continue to do that without having them playing more brands that can multiply their value? They can't. Something has to give.

It won't be the SEC which is the most valuable college sports product available to the networks. It likely won't be Texas whose only reasonable destination is the SEC, and then likely with Oklahoma, which would totally tilt the value table of the P5.

If keeping things relatively local is important, if balance in value and competition is preferred, and if profits from existing rights are to be maximized what can accomplish all of these objectives?

Well the weakest link in the ACC. They have valuable parts but don't function particularly well as a whole.

These in ascending order are the least valuable programs as a football product in the ACC:
1. Duke $67,505,331
2. Wake Forest $76,590,240
3. Boston College $81,051,159
4. Pittsburgh $112,942,437
5. Syracuse $121,057,725
6. Virginia $134,926,313

The ACC Average Value is $169,926,416 so all of these schools are below the ACC's average value and are dragging down the overall value of the other schools.

In the SEC the two lowest valuations are those of Vanderbilt $81,494,537 and Missouri $122,333,162.

These 6 schools are at or above the value levels of the schools in the Big 12 not named Texas and Oklahoma:
1. Clemson
2. Florida State
3. Virginia Tech
4. Georgia Tech
5. Miami
6. N.C. State
7. Louisville

So if you are ESPN you have these strong personalities to deal with in the ACC: North Carolina, Virginia, and Duke all with stellar academic ability, long standing basketball clout, strong political ties, but little baseline football values.

You have the schools listed above with little value to either the Big 10 or SEC but which had their greatest value when part of the old Big East: Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

You also have the Research Triangle relationships that the State of North Carolina will want to keep together.

So lets start with the enhancement of the Big 12:

The product which adds value to there conference would be:
Florida State, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Miami, and sans N.C. State which needs to stay with Duke and North Carolina, Louisville.

The Big 12 if it is in ESPN's hands could be enhanced in value and branding this way:
Iowa State, Louisville, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

The SEC would love to have a presence in North Carolina, but they would love 3 schools from North Carolina. But they would love to improve both their hoops and academic profile. But how do you fit in 3 schools?

1. Vanderbilt the least valuable SEC product and one facing space problems on campus, and which doesn't have a desire to go all in with football agrees to become the first SEC partial. This opens room for Duke, North Carolina and N.C. State.

2. Duke agrees to become the partial for football, Vanderbilt remains as is and North Carolina and N.C. State join in full.

So the SEC might look like this:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt or Duke as a partial

Now for the cost of this move:

ESPN gives up the pursuit of Notre Dame in order to get and keep all of Texas and Oklahoma. They only really lose 5 games every two years from the Irish so this is a no brainer. Virginia is a high profile top flite academic stalwart. The Big 10 would love a presence in that state and have always coveted Notre Dame who takes double the money with the breakup of the ACC which was going to be inevitable at some point in the future due to the disparity of revenue.

The rest:
Boston College, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse rejoin the Big East in all sports but Football where they join UConn as Northeastern independents. Wake either joins them, or works out a deal as a partial with the SEC.

The Big 10 becomes this:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Notre Dame, Rutgers
Indiana, Minnesota, Purdue, Wisconsin
Illinois, Iowa, Nebraska, Northwestern

The PAC remains as is.

If Notre Dame balks and seeks to remain a partial perhaps they do so in the Big 12. In that case Missouri joins Virginia in the Big 10. Virginia Tech takes Missouri's place in the SEC and B.Y.U. joins the Big 12. The divisions wouldn't be as clean but the moves still work.

SEC:
Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M

Big 10:
Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Virginia
Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska, Northwestern

Big 12:
Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, West Virginia
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami
Brigham Young, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
* Notre Dame as a partial

Working with the NC schools is what makes this possibility so interesting. They have a desire to stay together, but a divergence in priority.

I could see Vanderbilt either dropping football or completely de-emphasizing it. Wake Forest is in that boat too. If the Research Triangle wants to move here in unison then Wake might as well stick with them. If Vandy is interested too then that evens the numbers.

Here's the deal, if you have Kansas and Missouri head to the Big 10 so the SEC can take in Va Tech for the markets and a solid sports school, and if Vanderbilt and Wake were willing to be partials then this would work quite nicely:

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest

But to make it work without issue Vandy and Wake would have to agree to 1/2 voting status. There's no way the SEC agrees to let UNC bring a voting block which with just North Carolina school support could block the rest the of the conference wanting to accomplish something. That's one thing that has plagued the ACC.

Carolina's perk is getting to include all of their buds.

I've always liked Virginia Tech although if we're taking the NC 4 then I would just assume not allow anyone to leave from the West because those schools would have no motivation to side with UNC. The Mid-Atlantic schools might have more of an affinity.

Or we could do this...

Add the Research Triangle...add Wake Forest as a partial. Move Vanderbilt to partial membership.

Then...

Add Tulane and Tulsa as partials. They would probably be perfectly happy with a few guaranteed football games and SEC membership in the other sports. There's a chance Vandy and Wake might not drop football, but just de-emphasize it if they could still play a few conference mates every year.

(05-05-2020 07:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's the deal, if you have Kansas and Missouri head to the Big 10 so the SEC can take in Va Tech for the markets and a solid sports school, and if Vanderbilt and Wake were willing to be partials then this would work quite nicely:

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest

But to make it work without issue Vandy and Wake would have to agree to 1/2 voting status. There's no way the SEC agrees to let UNC bring a voting block which with just North Carolina school support could block the rest the of the conference wanting to accomplish something. That's one thing that has plagued the ACC.

Carolina's perk is getting to include all of their buds.

UVa would still head to the Big 10, which would work out nicely if the Domers make an unexpected turnaround and go against everything they claim to stand for. Otherwise, we might look to combining UVa with Pitt to make money off of the Penn State-Pitt rivalry and make a nice eastern wing to the conference, a tight western wing of the conference and an even tighter central.

Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois
Pitt, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia, Rutgers

(05-05-2020 09:48 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(05-05-2020 07:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Here's the deal, if you have Kansas and Missouri head to the Big 10 so the SEC can take in Va Tech for the markets and a solid sports school, and if Vanderbilt and Wake were willing to be partials then this would work quite nicely:

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest

But to make it work without issue Vandy and Wake would have to agree to 1/2 voting status. There's no way the SEC agrees to let UNC bring a voting block which with just North Carolina school support could block the rest the of the conference wanting to accomplish something. That's one thing that has plagued the ACC.

Carolina's perk is getting to include all of their buds.

UVa would still head to the Big 10, which would work out nicely if the Domers make an unexpected turnaround and go against everything they claim to stand for. Otherwise, we might look to combining UVa with Pitt to make money off of the Penn State-Pitt rivalry and make a nice eastern wing to the conference, a tight western wing of the conference and an even tighter central.

Kansas, Nebraska, Missouri, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin
Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois
Pitt, Ohio State, Penn State, Maryland, Virginia, Rutgers

I figured that the 9 AAU members of the PAC and Notre Dame would join the Big 10 for 24.

Well, a B24 would, essentially, be an association more than a conference. However, I guess by that point college sports would have changed to the point that programs across the country would have to forego regional pride and share their prime sports rights as a means of survival in a new world. So I'll play along:

Big XVI
Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, West Virginia

B24
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Utah
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota
Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana
Penn State, Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Mississippi
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest *Duke *Tulane

I'm assuming that the Big XVI would go to a divisionless format to account for the geographical spread but it also allows programs to lock four or five rivals every season and rotate the rest. For the B24 going to a 6x4 format gives fans some semblance of security knowing the familiar opponents on the schedule and also opponents from the other side of the country every other year. ND would have the choice of switching between Stanford/Cal and USC/UCLA. I'm also sensitive about avoiding a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

Tulane, being a former SEC member, would be a natural fit to complement Duke and Vanderbilt.

Florida State. Why? Gives the SEC a near monopoly on state of Florida, effectively blocks the Big Ten or the Big 12 from going after them, a lot of the boosters are familiar with the SEC, and the FSU brand would really help the SEC Network.

(05-06-2020 12:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Well, a B24 would, essentially, be an association more than a conference. However, I guess by that point college sports would have changed to the point that programs across the country would have to forego regional pride and share their prime sports rights as a means of survival in a new world. So I'll play along:

Big XVI
Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, West Virginia

B24
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Utah
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota
Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana
Penn State, Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Mississippi
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest *Duke *Tulane

I'm assuming that the Big XVI would go to a divisionless format to account for the geographical spread but it also allows programs to lock four or five rivals every season and rotate the rest. For the B24 going to a 6x4 format gives fans some semblance of security knowing the familiar opponents on the schedule and also opponents from the other side of the country every other year. ND would have the choice of switching between Stanford/Cal and USC/UCLA. I'm also sensitive about avoiding a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

Tulane, being a former SEC member, would be a natural fit to complement Duke and Vanderbilt.

I had more in mind two dominant conferences and an access conference.

SEC:
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest as all but football.

B1G:
Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

New Access Conference:
Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Houston, Miami, Navy, South Florida

Each Conference gets their champion in the playoff automatically. There are 5 at large spots.

Each Conference plays the 5 in their division, 6 from the rotating divisions on the schedule, and 1 permanent rival that can be from any conference.

The 4 division winners face off in the conference semis which add about 70 million for this new pair of games. The CCG remains the same.

I think the Big 10 would be pleased with this arrangement and that the key schools from the ACC and Big 12 and SEC would as well.

I wonder with the arguments behind the scenes about whether to re-open this season if the split would be more along geographical lines rather than from within conferences. If, for example, Clemson wants to open but UNC/UVa don't want to yet. How would that affect things down the road? It's possible that there may be a split within the state of NC, depending on the cultural trends.

(05-11-2020 08:59 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  I wonder with the arguments behind the scenes about whether to re-open this season if the split would be more along geographical lines rather than from within conferences. If, for example, Clemson wants to open but UNC/UVa don't want to yet. How would that affect things down the road? It's possible that there may be a split within the state of NC, depending on the cultural trends.

I think this is a viable question not only for the ACC but the Big 12 as well. Yesterday Texas expressed some dismay over some of the more Northern Big 12 schools not being on board with a football season yet.

It would be interesting to know what the courts would think in terms of whether such decisions break contracts or not. I don't know where Oklahoma stands on this matter. But I think it is likely that both Florida State and Clemson will want to play. I'm guessing Georgia Tech and Miami as well.

The North Carolina situation isn't as likely to transpire. N.C. State is stuck under a state board of regents predominantly comprised of UNC alums. They don't have the political cover to disagree.

If the SEC plays I could see Clemson, F.S.U., Georgia Tech, Miami, Texas and Texas Tech getting in on it, with possibly Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. The question is what might transpire out of that?

(05-06-2020 01:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 12:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Well, a B24 would, essentially, be an association more than a conference. However, I guess by that point college sports would have changed to the point that programs across the country would have to forego regional pride and share their prime sports rights as a means of survival in a new world. So I'll play along:

Big XVI
Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, West Virginia

B24
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Utah
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota
Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana
Penn State, Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Mississippi
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest *Duke *Tulane

I'm assuming that the Big XVI would go to a divisionless format to account for the geographical spread but it also allows programs to lock four or five rivals every season and rotate the rest. For the B24 going to a 6x4 format gives fans some semblance of security knowing the familiar opponents on the schedule and also opponents from the other side of the country every other year. ND would have the choice of switching between Stanford/Cal and USC/UCLA. I'm also sensitive about avoiding a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

Tulane, being a former SEC member, would be a natural fit to complement Duke and Vanderbilt.

I had more in mind two dominant conferences and an access conference.

SEC:
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest as all but football.

B1G:
Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

New Access Conference:
Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Houston, Miami, Navy, South Florida

Each Conference gets their champion in the playoff automatically. There are 5 at large spots.

Each Conference plays the 5 in their division, 6 from the rotating divisions on the schedule, and 1 permanent rival that can be from any conference.

The 4 division winners face off in the conference semis which add about 70 million for this new pair of games. The CCG remains the same.

I think the Big 10 would be pleased with this arrangement and that the key schools from the ACC and Big 12 and SEC would as well.

You might do better in building out the West, shifting Arkansas towards the Texas schools and Oklahoma. Maintaining enough separation between UT and A&M gives the SEC additional chances to be seen in Texas. I would also shift Tennessee towards the NC/VA programs to foster competitiveness in that division. Vanderbilt and Wake Forest would still be partials but I would pick TCU over Duke to build out the presence in DFW. NC State and UNC by themselves already cover Raleigh, so Duke is superfluous. If I could get away with it then Duke goes to the Access conference.


TCU, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Texas A&M, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn
Georgia Tech, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina
Kentucky, Tennessee, UNC, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest

Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Houston, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Duke, Miami, Navy, South Florida

(05-13-2020 11:50 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 12:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Well, a B24 would, essentially, be an association more than a conference. However, I guess by that point college sports would have changed to the point that programs across the country would have to forego regional pride and share their prime sports rights as a means of survival in a new world. So I'll play along:

Big XVI
Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, West Virginia

B24
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Utah
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota
Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana
Penn State, Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Mississippi
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest *Duke *Tulane

I'm assuming that the Big XVI would go to a divisionless format to account for the geographical spread but it also allows programs to lock four or five rivals every season and rotate the rest. For the B24 going to a 6x4 format gives fans some semblance of security knowing the familiar opponents on the schedule and also opponents from the other side of the country every other year. ND would have the choice of switching between Stanford/Cal and USC/UCLA. I'm also sensitive about avoiding a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

Tulane, being a former SEC member, would be a natural fit to complement Duke and Vanderbilt.

I had more in mind two dominant conferences and an access conference.

SEC:
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest as all but football.

B1G:
Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

New Access Conference:
Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Houston, Miami, Navy, South Florida

Each Conference gets their champion in the playoff automatically. There are 5 at large spots.

Each Conference plays the 5 in their division, 6 from the rotating divisions on the schedule, and 1 permanent rival that can be from any conference.

The 4 division winners face off in the conference semis which add about 70 million for this new pair of games. The CCG remains the same.

I think the Big 10 would be pleased with this arrangement and that the key schools from the ACC and Big 12 and SEC would as well.

You might do better in building out the West, shifting Arkansas towards the Texas schools and Oklahoma. Maintaining enough separation between UT and A&M gives the SEC additional chances to be seen in Texas. I would also shift Tennessee towards the NC/VA programs to foster competitiveness in that division. Vanderbilt and Wake Forest would still be partials but I would pick TCU over Duke to build out the presence in DFW. NC State and UNC by themselves already cover Raleigh, so Duke is superfluous. If I could get away with it then Duke goes to the Access conference.


TCU, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Texas A&M, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn
Georgia Tech, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina
Kentucky, Tennessee, UNC, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest

Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Houston, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Duke, Miami, Navy, South Florida

I had considered simply seeing Duke drop football and move to the Big East. Tennessee could move.

With Texas and Oklahoma playing in Dallas and with the largest two groups of fans there being Texas and Aggie fans followed by Oklahoma they would be more than covered.

(05-14-2020 12:04 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2020 11:50 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 01:22 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 12:30 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Well, a B24 would, essentially, be an association more than a conference. However, I guess by that point college sports would have changed to the point that programs across the country would have to forego regional pride and share their prime sports rights as a means of survival in a new world. So I'll play along:

Big XVI
Iowa State, Louisville, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Virginia Tech, Clemson, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Miami, West Virginia

B24
Washington, Oregon, Stanford, California
UCLA, USC, Arizona, Utah
Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota
Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State
Northwestern, Purdue, Illinois, Indiana
Penn State, Maryland, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia
Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, Mississippi
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Missouri, Texas A&M
*Vanderbilt, *Wake Forest *Duke *Tulane

I'm assuming that the Big XVI would go to a divisionless format to account for the geographical spread but it also allows programs to lock four or five rivals every season and rotate the rest. For the B24 going to a 6x4 format gives fans some semblance of security knowing the familiar opponents on the schedule and also opponents from the other side of the country every other year. ND would have the choice of switching between Stanford/Cal and USC/UCLA. I'm also sensitive about avoiding a Michigan-Ohio State rematch.

Tulane, being a former SEC member, would be a natural fit to complement Duke and Vanderbilt.

I had more in mind two dominant conferences and an access conference.

SEC:
Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest as all but football.

B1G:
Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin
Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

New Access Conference:
Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Houston, Miami, Navy, South Florida

Each Conference gets their champion in the playoff automatically. There are 5 at large spots.

Each Conference plays the 5 in their division, 6 from the rotating divisions on the schedule, and 1 permanent rival that can be from any conference.

The 4 division winners face off in the conference semis which add about 70 million for this new pair of games. The CCG remains the same.

I think the Big 10 would be pleased with this arrangement and that the key schools from the ACC and Big 12 and SEC would as well.

You might do better in building out the West, shifting Arkansas towards the Texas schools and Oklahoma. Maintaining enough separation between UT and A&M gives the SEC additional chances to be seen in Texas. I would also shift Tennessee towards the NC/VA programs to foster competitiveness in that division. Vanderbilt and Wake Forest would still be partials but I would pick TCU over Duke to build out the presence in DFW. NC State and UNC by themselves already cover Raleigh, so Duke is superfluous. If I could get away with it then Duke goes to the Access conference.


TCU, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri
Texas A&M, LSU, Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn
Georgia Tech, Georgia, Florida, Florida State, Clemson, South Carolina
Kentucky, Tennessee, UNC, NC State, Virginia, Virginia Tech
* Vanderbilt *Wake Forest

Air Force, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Oregon State, San Diego State, Washington State
Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Houston, Texas Tech
Boston College, Cincinnati, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Army, Central Florida, Duke, Miami, Navy, South Florida

I had considered simply seeing Duke drop football and move to the Big East. Tennessee could move.

With Texas and Oklahoma playing in Dallas and with the largest two groups of fans there being Texas and Aggie fans followed by Oklahoma they would be more than covered.

Then I would probably look into sliding Louisville into the west. I still like the Tennessee division I created and also putting Arkansas with Texas and Oklahoma. Somebody is going to be an outlier and better a program who would take any spot in the big club. Having the Gulf programs put together and the GA/FL/SC programs put together make loads of sense to me. KY and TN should look towards the Atlantic to have an outlet to the coastline. So the last division would be the landlocked areas that go better together.

Exclusively Disney

Virginia Tech, Kentucky, North Carolina State, South Carolina
Georgia, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee
Vanderbilt, Alabama, Mississippi State, Ole Miss
Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri

Split between Disney and Fox Corporation

Maryland, Rutgers, Virginia, North Carolina
Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana
Purdue, Michigan State, Illinois, Northwestern
Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin

Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State
Baylor, Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami

Exclusively Comcast Corporation

Notre Dame, Boston College, Syracuse, Duke
Colorado, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah
Cal, Stanford, UCLA, Southern Cal
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State