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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #261
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-30-2018 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  **********************************************************************

Well in light of the most recent economic data, and due to the growing disparity between the total revenue of the ACC and SEC (approaching 43 million per school on average) and that between the ACC and Big 10 (approaching 27 million per school on average), I thought maybe it might be fun during the slow times to resurrect this thread.

For those new to the thread refer to the following data when making posts so that the information we are working with is current:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-852566.html

I think about it this way...

Who wants out of the ACC? Well, Maryland and Florida State were the ones that didn't agree to raising the exit fee a few years ago.

Now obviously FSU signed the GOR, but their President at the time might very well have been disinterested in their long term future or afraid to make any bold decisions if he wasn't going to be around long enough to see it through. That and ESPN would have raised hell if we took them.

How about this?

Take Florida State and West Virginia.

The ACC gets Texas and a friend. Notre Dame goes all in.

The B1G gets Oklahoma and Kansas

Everybody should be happy.
06-30-2018 08:14 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #262
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-30-2018 08:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  **********************************************************************

Well in light of the most recent economic data, and due to the growing disparity between the total revenue of the ACC and SEC (approaching 43 million per school on average) and that between the ACC and Big 10 (approaching 27 million per school on average), I thought maybe it might be fun during the slow times to resurrect this thread.

For those new to the thread refer to the following data when making posts so that the information we are working with is current:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-852566.html

I think about it this way...

Who wants out of the ACC? Well, Maryland and Florida State were the ones that didn't agree to raising the exit fee a few years ago.

Now obviously FSU signed the GOR, but their President at the time might very well have been disinterested in their long term future or afraid to make any bold decisions if he wasn't going to be around long enough to see it through. That and ESPN would have raised hell if we took them.

How about this?

Take Florida State and West Virginia.

The ACC gets Texas and a friend. Notre Dame goes all in.

The B1G gets Oklahoma and Kansas

Everybody should be happy.

That's pretty solid. How about this.

The SEC adds Florida State and T.C.U. doubling down in their largest two markets with quality sports additions for the big 3 sports.

West Virginia takes F.S.U.'s place in the ACC and renews rivalries with Virginia Tech, Miami, Pitt, and Syracuse. Texas joins as a partial only for football and parks their non revenue sports in the AAC (ESPN owned) where their non revs raise the TV payouts for the AAC.

The Big 10 gets Kansas and Oklahoma and the Sooners depart into the North and diminish.

The PAC if it wants central time zone slots can pick up a presence in 4 states with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech.

********************************************************************

But I go back to thinking about what actually may transpire if the revenue of the ACC remains so very behind everyone else who is nearby them.

Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame and N.C. State to the Big 10.

North Carolina, Duke, Florida State and Clemson to the SEC.

Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse join Iowa State and West Virginia in the Big 12 North.

Georgia Tech and Miami join the Big 12 south with the 4 Texas Schools. The travel isn't an issue because both are air travel hubs.

Colorado State and Brigham Young join the Big 12 Central with Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

The PAC if it wishes to expand can take the best of the MWC.

SEC:

Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Big 10:

Maryland, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Big 12:

Boston College, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Brigham Young, Colorado State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Baylor, Georgia Tech, Miami, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech
06-30-2018 08:43 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #263
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(06-30-2018 08:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 08:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  **********************************************************************

Well in light of the most recent economic data, and due to the growing disparity between the total revenue of the ACC and SEC (approaching 43 million per school on average) and that between the ACC and Big 10 (approaching 27 million per school on average), I thought maybe it might be fun during the slow times to resurrect this thread.

For those new to the thread refer to the following data when making posts so that the information we are working with is current:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-852566.html

I think about it this way...

Who wants out of the ACC? Well, Maryland and Florida State were the ones that didn't agree to raising the exit fee a few years ago.

Now obviously FSU signed the GOR, but their President at the time might very well have been disinterested in their long term future or afraid to make any bold decisions if he wasn't going to be around long enough to see it through. That and ESPN would have raised hell if we took them.

How about this?

Take Florida State and West Virginia.

The ACC gets Texas and a friend. Notre Dame goes all in.

The B1G gets Oklahoma and Kansas

Everybody should be happy.

That's pretty solid. How about this.

The SEC adds Florida State and T.C.U. doubling down in their largest two markets with quality sports additions for the big 3 sports.

West Virginia takes F.S.U.'s place in the ACC and renews rivalries with Virginia Tech, Miami, Pitt, and Syracuse. Texas joins as a partial only for football and parks their non revenue sports in the AAC (ESPN owned) where their non revs raise the TV payouts for the AAC.

The Big 10 gets Kansas and Oklahoma and the Sooners depart into the North and diminish.

The PAC if it wants central time zone slots can pick up a presence in 4 states with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech.

********************************************************************

But I go back to thinking about what actually may transpire if the revenue of the ACC remains so very behind everyone else who is nearby them.

Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame and N.C. State to the Big 10.

North Carolina, Duke, Florida State and Clemson to the SEC.

Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse join Iowa State and West Virginia in the Big 12 North.

Georgia Tech and Miami join the Big 12 south with the 4 Texas Schools. The travel isn't an issue because both are air travel hubs.

Colorado State and Brigham Young join the Big 12 Central with Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

The PAC if it wishes to expand can take the best of the MWC.

SEC:

Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Big 10:

Maryland, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Big 12:

Boston College, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Brigham Young, Colorado State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Baylor, Georgia Tech, Miami, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

I think if we were taking more than 2 from the East then we might as well go to 20. There's a lot of options and a lot of rivalries to maintain.

But...

I don't know that the Big 12 will survive even if the ACC goes away. I could still see Oklahoma bolting for the Big Ten even if they can secure a couple of pieces from the ACC region. Texas could still go to the PAC or maybe even choose the SEC if the money is big enough.

If the ACC revenues don't get a serious boost within the next few years then certain schools will clamor to get out and ESPN may accommodate by helping them into the SEC.

I think ESPN's preference, however, would be to keep the ACC viable which is why I suggested moving Texas in while allowing only Florida State to leave. That way, the network has control over at least 2 leagues with disparate priorities and contract schedules. Put the best products from the ACC into the SEC and ESPN loses some leverage at the negotiating table.

I think what could light a fire under ESPN and make them alter their priorities is if there was a realistic chance of losing some of those schools to the Big Ten. All of a sudden, now it's a matter of preservation rather than maximizing profit.

I don't think ESPN would try to lure the B1G back into the fold with the promise of some key additions from the ACC. For one, the B1G would never allow the bulk of their quality content to remain with one network. They seem to have developed a disdain for ESPN's M.O. Second, even if the B1G gave a more favorable contract to ESPN there's no guarantee it would last. The very next contract could see the B1G abandon ESPN altogether and the network would have lost some valuable content for their trouble. It's a very risky proposition to trade properties for short term contracts.

I think this possibility would lead ESPN to try to move as many strong properties into the SEC as would be viable. I'm not even sure it would be a money question at that point. If the SEC received other perks for taking in a few extra schools then perhaps it would be worth expanding beyond 20. Or perhaps ESPN would offer a large number of schools as a package deal. The SEC might have to take them all in order to get the type of raise they desire.

I do like the SEC's positioning though.
07-01-2018 12:12 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #264
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 12:12 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 08:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 08:14 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(06-30-2018 06:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  **********************************************************************

Well in light of the most recent economic data, and due to the growing disparity between the total revenue of the ACC and SEC (approaching 43 million per school on average) and that between the ACC and Big 10 (approaching 27 million per school on average), I thought maybe it might be fun during the slow times to resurrect this thread.

For those new to the thread refer to the following data when making posts so that the information we are working with is current:

https://csnbbs.com/thread-852566.html

I think about it this way...

Who wants out of the ACC? Well, Maryland and Florida State were the ones that didn't agree to raising the exit fee a few years ago.

Now obviously FSU signed the GOR, but their President at the time might very well have been disinterested in their long term future or afraid to make any bold decisions if he wasn't going to be around long enough to see it through. That and ESPN would have raised hell if we took them.

How about this?

Take Florida State and West Virginia.

The ACC gets Texas and a friend. Notre Dame goes all in.

The B1G gets Oklahoma and Kansas

Everybody should be happy.

That's pretty solid. How about this.

The SEC adds Florida State and T.C.U. doubling down in their largest two markets with quality sports additions for the big 3 sports.

West Virginia takes F.S.U.'s place in the ACC and renews rivalries with Virginia Tech, Miami, Pitt, and Syracuse. Texas joins as a partial only for football and parks their non revenue sports in the AAC (ESPN owned) where their non revs raise the TV payouts for the AAC.

The Big 10 gets Kansas and Oklahoma and the Sooners depart into the North and diminish.

The PAC if it wants central time zone slots can pick up a presence in 4 states with Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech.

********************************************************************

But I go back to thinking about what actually may transpire if the revenue of the ACC remains so very behind everyone else who is nearby them.

Virginia, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame and N.C. State to the Big 10.

North Carolina, Duke, Florida State and Clemson to the SEC.

Boston College, Louisville, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse join Iowa State and West Virginia in the Big 12 North.

Georgia Tech and Miami join the Big 12 south with the 4 Texas Schools. The travel isn't an issue because both are air travel hubs.

Colorado State and Brigham Young join the Big 12 Central with Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State.

The PAC if it wishes to expand can take the best of the MWC.

SEC:

Duke, Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Big 10:

Maryland, N.C. State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue

Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

Big 12:

Boston College, Iowa State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia

Brigham Young, Colorado State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

Baylor, Georgia Tech, Miami, Texas, Texas Christian, Texas Tech

I think if we were taking more than 2 from the East then we might as well go to 20. There's a lot of options and a lot of rivalries to maintain.

But...

I don't know that the Big 12 will survive even if the ACC goes away. I could still see Oklahoma bolting for the Big Ten even if they can secure a couple of pieces from the ACC region. Texas could still go to the PAC or maybe even choose the SEC if the money is big enough.

If the ACC revenues don't get a serious boost within the next few years then certain schools will clamor to get out and ESPN may accommodate by helping them into the SEC.

I think ESPN's preference, however, would be to keep the ACC viable which is why I suggested moving Texas in while allowing only Florida State to leave. That way, the network has control over at least 2 leagues with disparate priorities and contract schedules. Put the best products from the ACC into the SEC and ESPN loses some leverage at the negotiating table.

I think what could light a fire under ESPN and make them alter their priorities is if there was a realistic chance of losing some of those schools to the Big Ten. All of a sudden, now it's a matter of preservation rather than maximizing profit.

I don't think ESPN would try to lure the B1G back into the fold with the promise of some key additions from the ACC. For one, the B1G would never allow the bulk of their quality content to remain with one network. They seem to have developed a disdain for ESPN's M.O. Second, even if the B1G gave a more favorable contract to ESPN there's no guarantee it would last. The very next contract could see the B1G abandon ESPN altogether and the network would have lost some valuable content for their trouble. It's a very risky proposition to trade properties for short term contracts.

I think this possibility would lead ESPN to try to move as many strong properties into the SEC as would be viable. I'm not even sure it would be a money question at that point. If the SEC received other perks for taking in a few extra schools then perhaps it would be worth expanding beyond 20. Or perhaps ESPN would offer a large number of schools as a package deal. The SEC might have to take them all in order to get the type of raise they desire.

I do like the SEC's positioning though.

It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 01:43 AM by JRsec.)
07-01-2018 01:39 AM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #265
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.

I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.
07-01-2018 04:56 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #266
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 04:56 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.

I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.

You know ATU the big difference between us is that you have a big heart and are always wanting to err on the side of inclusion. I just try to consider the business angles and have little sympathy for schools who can't pay their own way in.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I really don't see many ways or reasons for the Big 10 or SEC to exceed 18 members. Anyone the ACC has leftover is a better option for the Big 12 than anyone else (except for maybe WF).
07-01-2018 02:13 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #267
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 04:56 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.

I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.

You know ATU the big difference between us is that you have a big heart and are always wanting to err on the side of inclusion. I just try to consider the business angles and have little sympathy for schools who can't pay their own way in.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I really don't see many ways or reasons for the Big 10 or SEC to exceed 18 members. Anyone the ACC has leftover is a better option for the Big 12 than anyone else (except for maybe WF).

Wake should probably drop football and join a league like the Big East. They wouldn't make as much money, but they're not going to get that money anyway if the ACC starts breaking up. Might as well ride it out until the end, but their days are probably numbered.

But other than that, the Big 12 is a good fit for many ACC schools. I suppose if the chances were solid that they could attract a few ACC leftovers and get a long term contract then there's really no need for Texas and Oklahoma to bolt.

If we are snagging schools solely from the ACC then I think 20 becomes viable because no one over there has the same value as a Texas or an Oklahoma.

Could do this...

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, and Virginia Tech

We reunite all the in-state rivals and create more close travel games for fans in the current footprint. VT is not far and I would take a chance on them because of their popularity in DC if nothing else. UNC and Duke round it out...literally.

The Big Ten would be a little more limited, but I could see this...

Virginia, NC State, Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, and Notre Dame

I don't think the Big 12 would be interested in growing exponentially anyway, but there's a few options for them...

Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami, and maybe Cincinnati
07-01-2018 03:46 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 03:46 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 04:56 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.

I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.

You know ATU the big difference between us is that you have a big heart and are always wanting to err on the side of inclusion. I just try to consider the business angles and have little sympathy for schools who can't pay their own way in.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I really don't see many ways or reasons for the Big 10 or SEC to exceed 18 members. Anyone the ACC has leftover is a better option for the Big 12 than anyone else (except for maybe WF).

Wake should probably drop football and join a league like the Big East. They wouldn't make as much money, but they're not going to get that money anyway if the ACC starts breaking up. Might as well ride it out until the end, but their days are probably numbered.

But other than that, the Big 12 is a good fit for many ACC schools. I suppose if the chances were solid that they could attract a few ACC leftovers and get a long term contract then there's really no need for Texas and Oklahoma to bolt.

If we are snagging schools solely from the ACC then I think 20 becomes viable because no one over there has the same value as a Texas or an Oklahoma.

Could do this...

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, and Virginia Tech

We reunite all the in-state rivals and create more close travel games for fans in the current footprint. VT is not far and I would take a chance on them because of their popularity in DC if nothing else. UNC and Duke round it out...literally.

The Big Ten would be a little more limited, but I could see this...

Virginia, NC State, Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, and Notre Dame

I don't think the Big 12 would be interested in growing exponentially anyway, but there's a few options for them...

Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami, and maybe Cincinnati

If we wanted the Carolina schools we're probably going to have to hold our noses and take all 3 of Duke, UNC and N.C. State. Virginia Tech.....okay it adds something. That leaves room only for F.S.U. and Clemson. Remember the days of Mr. SEC and the argument over how to cover the addition of 3 N.C. schools?

I loved having Georgia Tech as an annual rival. But the simple truth is that they don't even own Atlanta. They share it equally with Georgia and the Dawgs carry the rest of Georgia 85% to 10% with Clemson and Auburn splitting the other 5%.
07-01-2018 03:56 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #269
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 03:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:46 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 04:56 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 01:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  It has been my contention since the start of this thread a few years ago that ESPN would utilize the SEC as a safety net for ACC product they wanted to keep.

However, now that the market model is not the driving pay model, but rather content, I believe who they might choose to save to gut the ACC of value might be different.

I don't think ultimately they would care about Virginia. What of sports value is there? They might want to save Virginia Tech but look at their WSJ valuation numbers as compared to other Big 12 and ACC properties.

I do believe that ESPN would love to salvage UNC and Duke for hoops value and they would certainly bolster Kentucky's value and vice versa. Florida State and Clemson would be effectively gutting the football content of the ACC and then multiplying their value by placing them in the SEC where they immediately multiply the nation's must see TV.

I don't think they would care to hold onto Pitt, Syracuse and B.C. and therefore they may be willing to simply let N.D. slide. Louisville will find a home elsewhere and Kentucky doesn't want them.

Georgia Tech barely carries 50% of Atlanta. Georgia carries 85% of the state. N.C. State could be a price for landing UNC and Duke. Toss in Miami to keep the Big 10 out of Florida and there's your new 6.

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Miami, Clemson and Florida State.

So if 20 is your game those may be the schools.

But if Texas wants not to move, since OU couldn't take OSU with them to the Big 10 I think that whole deal fails.

I think the Big 10 moves on Northeastern Consolidation and that they take Virginia Tech, Virginia, Syracuse, Notre Dame and Pitt and possibly B.C. but more for hockey than football.

Boston College, Maryland, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Ohio State, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse

Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue

Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin

That potentially sets up a quarter final round of Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio State, Wisconsin.

That's a sound alignment for the Big 10.

The SEC can work one too!

Clemson, Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina

Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Miami

Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M

That's a really strong SEC set up.

Clemson, anyone from the Atlantic South, Alabama, L.S.U./A&M sets up a really sound quarter final for the SEC.

I think that SEC lineup gives ESPN the very best of the ACC with SEC content values.

Louisville joins the Big 12 and Georgia Tech joins the AAC. Wake is out.

Cincinnati, Brigham Young and Colorado State join the Big 12 with Louisville.

That puts them at 14 and expands them into Kentucky, Ohio, Colorado and Utah for the conversion of the LHN to a network. Maybe they add the Florida twins for market to make 16.

At that point the PAC 12 might take the best four from the MWC and call it a day.

Now the P4 stands at 72.

If ESPN can hold Texas in place with Oklahoma and they buyout the FOX share of the Big 12 and convert the LHN then they hold 30 to 36 of the best product in the Southeast and Southwest and might even be able to work toward a league.

Why do this? They aren't risking Texas and OU and they are protecting the best value of the ACC. For them that's a big win win while shedding most of the lesser value product of the ACC.

I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.

You know ATU the big difference between us is that you have a big heart and are always wanting to err on the side of inclusion. I just try to consider the business angles and have little sympathy for schools who can't pay their own way in.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I really don't see many ways or reasons for the Big 10 or SEC to exceed 18 members. Anyone the ACC has leftover is a better option for the Big 12 than anyone else (except for maybe WF).

Wake should probably drop football and join a league like the Big East. They wouldn't make as much money, but they're not going to get that money anyway if the ACC starts breaking up. Might as well ride it out until the end, but their days are probably numbered.

But other than that, the Big 12 is a good fit for many ACC schools. I suppose if the chances were solid that they could attract a few ACC leftovers and get a long term contract then there's really no need for Texas and Oklahoma to bolt.

If we are snagging schools solely from the ACC then I think 20 becomes viable because no one over there has the same value as a Texas or an Oklahoma.

Could do this...

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, and Virginia Tech

We reunite all the in-state rivals and create more close travel games for fans in the current footprint. VT is not far and I would take a chance on them because of their popularity in DC if nothing else. UNC and Duke round it out...literally.

The Big Ten would be a little more limited, but I could see this...

Virginia, NC State, Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, and Notre Dame

I don't think the Big 12 would be interested in growing exponentially anyway, but there's a few options for them...

Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami, and maybe Cincinnati

If we wanted the Carolina schools we're probably going to have to hold our noses and take all 3 of Duke, UNC and N.C. State. Virginia Tech.....okay it adds something. That leaves room only for F.S.U. and Clemson. Remember the days of Mr. SEC and the argument over how to cover the addition of 3 N.C. schools?

I loved having Georgia Tech as an annual rival. But the simple truth is that they don't even own Atlanta. They share it equally with Georgia and the Dawgs carry the rest of Georgia 85% to 10% with Clemson and Auburn splitting the other 5%.

I could live with that.

Actually, I think you're being generous by giving GT an equal share of Atlanta. Generally, when UGA visits Tech the stadium is saturated with red and black. Although that just exacerbates the point that GT wouldn't pay for itself.

I think Atlanta has become more of an amalgamation anyway. Georgia owns it, but many of the SEC and ACC schools are sending their grads there. There's lot of Bama fans over there now as well, many more than in the old days. We've been drawing students from the metro area for a while now and sending a lot of alumni back as well.

But Georgia Tech is more of a romantic addition anyway, however, they're the ones who decided to leave. My concern would be the involvement of the GA legislature. If GT was faced with being relegated to the American then the politicians might step in. I think the Big 12 would take them though if they were available.
07-01-2018 04:37 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #270
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 04:37 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 03:46 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-01-2018 04:56 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I think that's a solid 20.

I'm not so sure ESPN would abandon the VA schools though. There tend to be some good rates of college football consumption in that market even if the quality of content is not always top notch. Virginia Tech especially is a program with pretty good potential. They've come a long way in the last 30 years. Put a bunch of other solid programs on their schedule and I think their value increases.

UVA will probably never have a great football program, but the 2 schools together pull a lot of numbers between DC and the other cities in VA.

Georgia Tech is a weaker brand although they have history with the old core of the SEC so between that and proximity, I think most of their match-ups would garner good fan interest. Actually, I could see the B1G making a play for them even though the geography would be odd to say the least. The Big 12 might be interested at the very least. How many other options would that league have? And what happens if the GA Legislature steps in?

The whole thing would be a little bit of a quandary. I could see the B1G taking Syracuse and Boston College because of the access to new markets. Neither addition would be ideal though since they're both private. Notre Dame is a no-brainer, but I'm not sure Pittsburgh gives them anything. It's a middling brand in a pro sports town located in a state owned by Penn State. The B1G might very well be interested in both VA schools although they would crave access to NC as well.

Louisville would be a better fit in the Big 12. I think the same for Pittsburgh.

I think you could squeeze 10 into the SEC if you fudged a little bit. The dynamics might make ESPN interested in altering their valuations. Would it be worth it to them to protect 10 ACC schools? I think that would be the pivotal question.

You know ATU the big difference between us is that you have a big heart and are always wanting to err on the side of inclusion. I just try to consider the business angles and have little sympathy for schools who can't pay their own way in.

I understand your viewpoint on this, but I really don't see many ways or reasons for the Big 10 or SEC to exceed 18 members. Anyone the ACC has leftover is a better option for the Big 12 than anyone else (except for maybe WF).

Wake should probably drop football and join a league like the Big East. They wouldn't make as much money, but they're not going to get that money anyway if the ACC starts breaking up. Might as well ride it out until the end, but their days are probably numbered.

But other than that, the Big 12 is a good fit for many ACC schools. I suppose if the chances were solid that they could attract a few ACC leftovers and get a long term contract then there's really no need for Texas and Oklahoma to bolt.

If we are snagging schools solely from the ACC then I think 20 becomes viable because no one over there has the same value as a Texas or an Oklahoma.

Could do this...

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, Duke, and Virginia Tech

We reunite all the in-state rivals and create more close travel games for fans in the current footprint. VT is not far and I would take a chance on them because of their popularity in DC if nothing else. UNC and Duke round it out...literally.

The Big Ten would be a little more limited, but I could see this...

Virginia, NC State, Syracuse, Boston College, UConn, and Notre Dame

I don't think the Big 12 would be interested in growing exponentially anyway, but there's a few options for them...

Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami, and maybe Cincinnati

If we wanted the Carolina schools we're probably going to have to hold our noses and take all 3 of Duke, UNC and N.C. State. Virginia Tech.....okay it adds something. That leaves room only for F.S.U. and Clemson. Remember the days of Mr. SEC and the argument over how to cover the addition of 3 N.C. schools?

I loved having Georgia Tech as an annual rival. But the simple truth is that they don't even own Atlanta. They share it equally with Georgia and the Dawgs carry the rest of Georgia 85% to 10% with Clemson and Auburn splitting the other 5%.

I could live with that.

Actually, I think you're being generous by giving GT an equal share of Atlanta. Generally, when UGA visits Tech the stadium is saturated with red and black. Although that just exacerbates the point that GT wouldn't pay for itself.

I think Atlanta has become more of an amalgamation anyway. Georgia owns it, but many of the SEC and ACC schools are sending their grads there. There's lot of Bama fans over there now as well, many more than in the old days. We've been drawing students from the metro area for a while now and sending a lot of alumni back as well.

But Georgia Tech is more of a romantic addition anyway, however, they're the ones who decided to leave. My concern would be the involvement of the GA legislature. If GT was faced with being relegated to the American then the politicians might step in. I think the Big 12 would take them though if they were available.

Tech would be snapped up along with Miami for the Big 12. It's a transportation hub so travel to and from Atlanta is easy, the same with Miami. The reason the Big 12 would take them is simply to have the market and presence in a recruiting area. Ditto for Miami. Plus both are far better than their other options.
07-01-2018 04:42 PM
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BePcr07 Offline
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Post: #271
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
SEC goes to 18 with Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

B1G goes to 18 with Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

---

XII splits via invite for all 10 to power conferences

---

PAC goes to 18 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Kansas St

ACC (with Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Wake Forest) goes to 18 with Baylor, TCU, Iowa St, West Virginia, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, Central Florida, South Florida, BYU (fb only) - maintains deal with Notre Dame

---

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
South: Florida St, Alabama, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Virginia Tech
East: Auburn, North Carolina St, South Carolina, Clemson, Georgia, Florida

B1G
West: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
North: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St
East: Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Utah, Colorado
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St
Central: Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas Tech

ACC
West: BYU, Iowa St, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Memphis
North: Pittsburgh, Temple, Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Miami
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Connecticut
07-01-2018 09:11 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #272
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(07-01-2018 09:11 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  SEC goes to 18 with Florida St, Clemson, North Carolina St, Virginia Tech

B1G goes to 18 with Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

---

XII splits via invite for all 10 to power conferences

---

PAC goes to 18 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Kansas, Kansas St

ACC (with Miami, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Boston College, Louisville, Wake Forest) goes to 18 with Baylor, TCU, Iowa St, West Virginia, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, Connecticut, Central Florida, South Florida, BYU (fb only) - maintains deal with Notre Dame

---

SEC
West: Texas A&M, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi St
South: Florida St, Alabama, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Kentucky, Virginia Tech
East: Auburn, North Carolina St, South Carolina, Clemson, Georgia, Florida

B1G
West: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern
North: Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan St, Ohio St, Penn St
East: Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

PAC
North: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Utah, Colorado
West: California, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St
Central: Kansas, Kansas St, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas Tech

ACC
West: BYU, Iowa St, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Memphis
North: Pittsburgh, Temple, Syracuse, Boston College, West Virginia, Miami
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Louisville, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, Connecticut

I'll only say this once so let it sink in. There is no way in hell that the SEC will let the Big 10 into Atlanta. If the Big 12 takes Tech then fine. But not the Big 10, not now, not ever! And if we move to a P3 of 54 teams that will be it. There will be no 4th conference that includes G5 schools.
(This post was last modified: 07-01-2018 09:51 PM by JRsec.)
07-01-2018 09:14 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
Won't happen, but if the SEC added Duke in the east and Kansas in the west, that would make the most awesome conference for basketball.

JRsec, Duke is playing Auburn right now in bb at the Maui Invitational semi-final. Are you watching?
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2018 08:43 PM by OdinFrigg.)
11-20-2018 08:38 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #274
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(11-20-2018 08:38 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Won't happen, but if the SEC added Duke in the east and Kansas in the west, that would make the most awesome conference for basketball.

JRsec, Duke is playing Auburn right now in bb at the Maui Invitational semi-final. Are you watching?

Do Democrats want to raise taxes? Of course I'm watching. I cannot believe that Duke had no fouls called on them in the first half. They have the size on us but we're hanging around for now.

You know adding Duke and Kansas could actually help the SEC in a lot of ways. But then so too would the additions of North Carolina and Duke in 2035-5. So I say let's add Texas and Oklahoma to 16 and then in a decade we can move to 20 out of the ACC, or maybe even 24.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2018 10:13 PM by JRsec.)
11-20-2018 09:31 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #275
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
As we move into the next round of Media contracts with the SEC set to move to at least a per team payout of 65 million (based on our 44.6 million payout for this past year). I have to wonder if the Big 12 is the only conference truly vulnerable in 2024-5 or whether the ACC facing gaps of up to 30 million in media revenue with the SEC and Big 10, which will also be sporting a new media contract, will have a significant number of schools that might like to have the opportunity to be counted among the members of either of those conferences rather than the ACC. Almost 400 million in media payouts over the next 13 years before the ACC gets to renew their existing contracts has to be pause for concern of even their core founding schools.

Would the balance for the future of college sports not be better served if the SEC and Big 10 grew out of the ACC and the Big 12 was strengthened with their key sports schools?

Let the SEC and Big 10 move to 16 members out of the ACC but without touching the key programs of Clemson and Florida State.

What if the Big 10 expanded practically with an addition of New York school and former AAU member Syracuse and added Notre Dame shoring up their advertising advantage in many key Northern Midwestern and Northeastern cities?

What if the SEC picked up the states of Virginia and North Carolina with UNC and Virginia? These are great academic adds for the SEC and strong basketball brands and they add 20 million to our existing footprint.

And what if the Big 10 did take basketball giant Kansas from the current Big 12 during their GOR expiration? Would the Big 10 be well served to pick up such a brand? Especially if they added Virginia Tech to go with them picking up that market and a large land grant school which is closer to AAU membership than an Oklahoma?

And what if the SEC added T.C.U. to have a presence in the DFW market and added Duke to pick up another basketball blueblood?

The Big 12 would then have 8 members: Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and West Virginia.

They could pick up Louisville, Boston College and Pittsburgh and add them to West Virginia.

They could pick up Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, and North Carolina State as well.

Miami could be added to Baylor, Texas and Texas Tech to create a cross Gulf division.

Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would make up the rest of the 16.

If they wanted to grow further they have Brigham Young and Wake Forest to consider.

The ACC is completely absorbed. The old core gets the doubling of their sports media revenue. Notre Dame, Syracuse and Virginia Tech have theirs doubled as well. Kansas gets a substantial raise as does T.C.U..

The addition of the football first schools of the ACC to the current Big 12 not only gives them the market penetration they need but also creates content value which drives up their revenue as well which is already higher than that of the ACC.

Everybody wins and not having Texas and Oklahoma headed to the Big 10 or SEC actually preserves a kind of balance within the college football upper tier.

Whether the PAC makes additions or not everyone is provided for.

With three 18 member conferences and the PAC remaining at 12 we move from a 65 member P5 to a 66 member P4 and now the CFP can become a champs only affair.

If ESPN acquires all of the rights to the Big 12 they make more money from the product and their loss of 51% of the access to Virginia Tech and Syracuse is easily offset by their 100% access to Texas and Oklahoma. Kansas is slightly over a 50% product for them now so no major change happens there, and Notre Dame is only a 5/12ths product of ESPN so not a great loss there either.

If the ACC schools want to play catch up in media revenue this is the most comprehensive and productive way to do so.

SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.


B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin


Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2020 03:18 AM by JRsec.)
02-03-2020 02:58 AM
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Post: #276
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(02-03-2020 02:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.


B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin


Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?

This I can get behind of.

First, creating a league surrounding Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Louisville and Clemson addresses much of the political complications involving a restructuring of CFB. With pressure off of certain programs there may be greater cooperation in moving towards a new alignment. Kansas would be free to move on knowing that K-State or I-State won't be relegated to G status. KU is, culturally, more in line with the traditional Big Ten schools, anyway.

The Three Musketeers may grumble a bit but they'd get much of what they really like, if going by certain posters, by playing Kentucky, South Carolina and Vanderbilt more regularly, while keeping the Duke game. What they'll not like is less chances of playing NC State and Wake Forest, but that's already the case in the current ACC. NC State in the Big 12 instead of the SEC would ease some concerns within the Tar Heel blue brass. Maryland had already left, so they've had time to absorb that shock. There won't be much of the old ACC, except for the likes of Wake and Clemson, that they'd care about should they pull the trigger.

Virginia Tech is really the program that should benefit more from going to a richer conference. They have much of what CFB programs really like: a relatively fertile recruiting state they share with one other major program and several G programs; a location close to the nation's capital; football focus; a rising basketball program. Moreover, by the joining the ACC very late they don't have the emotional pull like at the old ACC programs. If anything, the Big Ten should go hard after them instead of UVa.

The biggest complication is, of course, the white whale in Indiana, the same one that has a very complicated history with certain Big Ten programs. So much pride wound up in one fan base that no amount of money could possibly soothe over. Again, not saying that it can't happen (after all, the brass was OK putting hockey there) but I'm not holding my breath.
02-03-2020 10:49 PM
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Post: #277
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(02-03-2020 10:49 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(02-03-2020 02:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.


B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin


Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?

This I can get behind of.

First, creating a league surrounding Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Louisville and Clemson addresses much of the political complications involving a restructuring of CFB. With pressure off of certain programs there may be greater cooperation in moving towards a new alignment. Kansas would be free to move on knowing that K-State or I-State won't be relegated to G status. KU is, culturally, more in line with the traditional Big Ten schools, anyway.

The Three Musketeers may grumble a bit but they'd get much of what they really like, if going by certain posters, by playing Kentucky, South Carolina and Vanderbilt more regularly, while keeping the Duke game. What they'll not like is less chances of playing NC State and Wake Forest, but that's already the case in the current ACC. NC State in the Big 12 instead of the SEC would ease some concerns within the Tar Heel blue brass. Maryland had already left, so they've had time to absorb that shock. There won't be much of the old ACC, except for the likes of Wake and Clemson, that they'd care about should they pull the trigger.

Virginia Tech is really the program that should benefit more from going to a richer conference. They have much of what CFB programs really like: a relatively fertile recruiting state they share with one other major program and several G programs; a location close to the nation's capital; football focus; a rising basketball program. Moreover, by the joining the ACC very late they don't have the emotional pull like at the old ACC programs. If anything, the Big Ten should go hard after them instead of UVa.

The biggest complication is, of course, the white whale in Indiana, the same one that has a very complicated history with certain Big Ten programs. So much pride wound up in one fan base that no amount of money could possibly soothe over. Again, not saying that it can't happen (after all, the brass was OK putting hockey there) but I'm not holding my breath.

Even Terry D thinks for that much money they might make that move, and where else would they go in a P4 champs only model? Are they really going to hitch their wagon to the PAC and have to pay all of that travel for minor sports and make much less money than they would make in the Big 10? They sure won't head to the SEC. They might opt for the Big 12 since they can play in Texas and in Georgia and Florida through those former ACC schools, but really all they care about is national exposure and even if they play 10 Big 10 games then five of them would be with Syracuse, Rutgers, Virginia Tech, Maryland and Penn State which takes care of the New England and beltway exposure, and they still have 2 games OOC with which to play in Florida or Georgia and at Southern Cal. Plus their division they would see as winnable. They wouldn't be in a division with the Buckeyes so that means exposure nationally in the Big 10 semis at least and possibly in the finals.

Under those circumstances I think they take the deal with the Big 10. It gives their academics the associations they want, places them in the Northeastern division, still leaves them a couple of games for exposure in different regions of the country.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2020 11:43 PM by JRsec.)
02-03-2020 11:01 PM
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Post: #278
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(02-03-2020 02:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.


B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin


Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?

So this plan addresses my concern that OU and UTX moving to the SEC and/or B1G would create an insurmountable imbalance. I'm surprised that you went with UNC to the SEC, but I guess that was the only way to preserve the Duke and UVA relationship. Football doesn't get better but that might not be something the SEC needs. MBB is greatly improved though.

The B1G get football help with VT and ND but that western division looks a little weak. But the fly in the ointment is clearly BC in the B12. Not your fault really, but the demise of the OBE has left them as an outlier, even within the ACC. While this new B12 is a kluge, it does have the brands that would actually command SEC/B1G level TV dollars.

Of all the spitballing done in the past 5 years, I think this scenario and others along similar lines is a viable alternative to a P2/p3 system on the horizon.
(This post was last modified: 02-05-2020 01:39 PM by vandiver49.)
02-05-2020 05:32 AM
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Post: #279
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
If worse comes to worse then both BC and WF could apply to the Big East and take their football programs to independence. That would also indirectly help UConn, Liberty, Army and UMass by having new opponents to schedule. Also, renewing the rivalry between BC, UConn and Providence to put the Big East in a stronger position in New England. Those three already play together in hockey.

New Big East

Boston College, Butler, Connecticut, Creighton, Dayton, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, Wake Forest, Xavier

The Big 12 can add Brigham Young for more national exposure. There are two ways to divide them: East and West or 4 four-team divisions.

Rebuilt Big XVI

East: Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State, West Virginia, Louisville, Pitt
West: Iowa State, Kansas State, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Baylor, Brigham Young

Miami, Louisville, Pitt, West Virginia
Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, NC State
Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma
Brigham Young, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor
02-05-2020 07:04 AM
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Post: #280
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the ACC who should we take and why?
(02-03-2020 02:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  As we move into the next round of Media contracts with the SEC set to move to at least a per team payout of 65 million (based on our 44.6 million payout for this past year). I have to wonder if the Big 12 is the only conference truly vulnerable in 2024-5 or whether the ACC facing gaps of up to 30 million in media revenue with the SEC and Big 10, which will also be sporting a new media contract, will have a significant number of schools that might like to have the opportunity to be counted among the members of either of those conferences rather than the ACC. Almost 400 million in media payouts over the next 13 years before the ACC gets to renew their existing contracts has to be pause for concern of even their core founding schools.

Would the balance for the future of college sports not be better served if the SEC and Big 10 grew out of the ACC and the Big 12 was strengthened with their key sports schools?

Let the SEC and Big 10 move to 16 members out of the ACC but without touching the key programs of Clemson and Florida State.

What if the Big 10 expanded practically with an addition of New York school and former AAU member Syracuse and added Notre Dame shoring up their advertising advantage in many key Northern Midwestern and Northeastern cities?

What if the SEC picked up the states of Virginia and North Carolina with UNC and Virginia? These are great academic adds for the SEC and strong basketball brands and they add 20 million to our existing footprint.

And what if the Big 10 did take basketball giant Kansas from the current Big 12 during their GOR expiration? Would the Big 10 be well served to pick up such a brand? Especially if they added Virginia Tech to go with them picking up that market and a large land grant school which is closer to AAU membership than an Oklahoma?

And what if the SEC added T.C.U. to have a presence in the DFW market and added Duke to pick up another basketball blueblood?

The Big 12 would then have 8 members: Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and West Virginia.

They could pick up Louisville, Boston College and Pittsburgh and add them to West Virginia.

They could pick up Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, and North Carolina State as well.

Miami could be added to Baylor, Texas and Texas Tech to create a cross Gulf division.

Iowa State, Kansas State, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State would make up the rest of the 16.

If they wanted to grow further they have Brigham Young and Wake Forest to consider.

The ACC is completely absorbed. The old core gets the doubling of their sports media revenue. Notre Dame, Syracuse and Virginia Tech have theirs doubled as well. Kansas gets a substantial raise as does T.C.U..

The addition of the football first schools of the ACC to the current Big 12 not only gives them the market penetration they need but also creates content value which drives up their revenue as well which is already higher than that of the ACC.

Everybody wins and not having Texas and Oklahoma headed to the Big 10 or SEC actually preserves a kind of balance within the college football upper tier.

Whether the PAC makes additions or not everyone is provided for.

With three 18 member conferences and the PAC remaining at 12 we move from a 65 member P5 to a 66 member P4 and now the CFP can become a champs only affair.

If ESPN acquires all of the rights to the Big 12 they make more money from the product and their loss of 51% of the access to Virginia Tech and Syracuse is easily offset by their 100% access to Texas and Oklahoma. Kansas is slightly over a 50% product for them now so no major change happens there, and Notre Dame is only a 5/12ths product of ESPN so not a great loss there either.

If the ACC schools want to play catch up in media revenue this is the most comprehensive and productive way to do so.

SEC:
Duke, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia
Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.


B1G:
Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Rutgers, Syracuse, Virginia Tech
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern, Wisconsin


Big 12:
Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Wake Forest
Boston College, Iowa State, Kansas State, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia
Baylor, Brigham Young, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

PAC 12:
Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal, Utah
California, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, Washington, Washington State


Now wouldn't that 66 as it is comported make a great deal of geographical sense where divisions were concerned and give us a really solid 66 schools in a new upper tier?

To add another wrinkle, If Vanderbilt decides that performing at this level is not what they want then they could leave the SEC as well. That would be consistent with their approach in recent years and I'm starting to think the SEC will put pressure on them to pull more of their own weight. If a guy like Malcolm Turner can't inspire them to change their philosophy then I don't know what will.

There's a mathematical reality that Vanderbilt is well below the SEC averages on revenue and spending. It's nothing personal against them and I certainly enjoy having Vandy in the league, but it's important that each member put their best foot forward if we're all going to enjoy equal revenue.

If they were to drop down to a more desirable league then we also need a private school to replace them. In the above scenario, Duke performs that role or TCU performs that role.

The main premise here is that alters the numbers. Vanderbilt has tangential value, but they drag the media revenue down. If you remove them from the equation then that opens up additional possibilities.

For one, in order to properly parse out the ACC then I think you're going to have to find a better or at least more stable home for virtually every school. Out of 15 schools, I think you'd need what...12 to break the GOR? Assuming ESPN is doing their thing behind closed doors then moving the pieces around shouldn't be too difficult. The only challenge is making sure the schools are given proper incentive to let the ACC pass. For most, that wouldn't be a problem, but others are more challenging.

If the powers that be can agree that building a new league around Texas and Oklahoma is the way to go then let's examine how to make that league as strong and as viable as possible.

There would be a few non-negotiable positions. Most of the Big 12 would have to stay intact, but not necessarily all of it. Texas will go to some effort to protect their in-state schools and they may do it if for no more reason than to ensure another TX school doesn't have SEC money flowing in. This isn't a deal-breaker, but let's assume for a moment that UT's opening offer includes all TX schools remaining in the Big 12. I think we can assume Oklahoma would feel the same way.

The combo of Kansas and Kansas State is a little different just because the local politics might not matter and it's entirely feasible that neither the SEC nor the Big Ten would make that call anyway in a scenario where ACC schools can be had. Iowa State doesn't have anywhere else to go. The only other school that sticks out as odd is West Virginia. That's not to suggest other leagues are beating the door down to get them, but the Big 12 powers aren't going to worry about losing them.

So let's say there are certain ACC schools that need to be funneled into the Big 12 for it to work. The list is pretty obvious. It starts with Florida State and Clemson. Miami helps. Louisville helps. Georgia Tech helps a little bit. Pittsburgh doesn't hurt really, but they're not essential here. Boston College doesn't really help anyone except maybe the Big Ten and even that is questionable. The quad of schools in NC have to be figured out simply because they've been tied together for so long, but in all honesty no one wants Wake Forest. Virginia Tech, Syracuse, and Notre Dame are schools that should appeal to the Big Ten so let's reserve them for that destination.

What does the SEC want out of this? They want more money, certainly. I'm sure they want access to the populations of NC and VA. These are fast growing states with good schools. Accessing them will help in a myriad of ways even if their athletic revenues aren't necessarily top notch.

Let's say that Virginia, North Carolina, and Duke are the baseline that the SEC will accept. They can get value out of these schools and states. Their private school need is met by Duke since the departure of Vanderbilt creating a void. If they added these 3 in the wake of Vandy then they're at 16 already.

The Big Ten has 3 strong additions in Notre Dame, Syracuse, and Virginia Tech. They need a 4th addition, however. The SEC on the other hand could rest at an even 16, but given the nature of the additions, it is probably best to match the Big Ten's numbers.

The only real thing the SEC could want from this position is expansion into Texas or perhaps Oklahoma. The Big Ten needs more exposure from the Eastern seaboard.

Texas could then allow TCU to come out from under their wings, but in exchange they want fewer rather than more schools from the East. They still want to maintain a strong voting bloc in their corner. With the loss of TCU from that wing, they need to leave out a school from the East that would be tempted to vote against them anyway.

In a surprise move, the leaders of the state of GA along with UGA would like Georgia Tech to move with them. The SEC is good with it because they replace one AAU school lost(Vanderbilt) with another. They get back an old rival that catches the attention of other legacy schools in the region even if the fan base is somewhat tepid. They make the old ACC bloc feel a little better as well given the presence of more representation. Perhaps most importantly, the Big Ten gains no access to the major media market of Atlanta.

So now we've got the SEC finished out at 18. The additions are Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech, and TCU.

The Big Ten finishes out as well with NC State. It's another solid school in a growing market that isn't too far outside their new core. They stop at 18 with the additions of Notre Dame, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, and NC State.

The Big 12 lines up like this:

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State in the West

In the East they acquire Florida State, Miami, Clemson, Louisville, and Pittsburgh. West Virginia may have been expandable, but it wasn't necessary. They fit in well and tie the room together. The league rests at 14.

Wake Forest and Boston College are left out, but the movement of Vanderbilt helps facilitate other moves that make everyone else a little happier. The ACC can easily be broken with 13 schools voting to dissolve and each of the 13 has found either a more prosperous or at least more stable home.

As for the schools that have moved down, I think they simply join the American and expand the content possibilities.

West: Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Navy, Memphis, Tulane, Vanderbilt, Cincinnati
East: Central Florida, South Florida, Wake Forest, East Carolina, Temple, Boston College
02-05-2020 08:51 PM
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