http://www.c-span.org/video/?320346-1/he...-academics

Senate oversight committee. Rockefeller's opening statement is spot on, I think.

It's really long but worth watching

Wake me when they get to the issue of widening wealth disparity, treating athletes differently based on school size, enforcement disparities between schools, bag men, or the issues faced by swimming, wrestling, and bowling athletes. The destruction of long-standing rivalries and the situation Idaho, UMass, NMSU found themselves in and the inability of Liberty to join FBS despite being ready...resource and APR issues of schools like Grambling and all the other nagging imbalances that don't have to do with future NFL players getting money now.

I'm at Taylor Branch who wrote "The Cartel: Inside the Rise and Imminent Fall of the NCAA"


http://www.amazon.com/Cartel-Inside-Rise...lor+branch

Start at 1:10.

My biggest issue is shortchanging these kids when it comes to education.

(07-22-2014 10:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My biggest issue is shortchanging these kids when it comes to education.

My problem is that the focus is on those that play football for schools that earn billions. They aren't getting their "share" of the billions. It's mostly elite athletes at elite schools not getting the big revenue they generate. And not getting money off of their likeness. And not being able to talk to agents.

But what about the female swimmer at Weber State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the basketball player at Florida Atlantic? He is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the bowler at Arkansas State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. How much is a wrestler at Northern Iowa going to get off of their likeness? How will rules on getting an agent help a Lacrosse player at Widener?

Some animals are more equal than other animals.

They are all student-athletes at NCAA member schools. The NCAA is supposed to be about student-athletes....not some football players at some particular schools.

People are outraged that Alabama's 5-star football player is not getting a stipend...legislation is pushed through....Senate hearings are held....autonomy is demanded...pundits scream. But nobody gives a flying flip about Grambling's student-athletes having to reuse old crappy unsafe equipment.

If this were about "student-athletes" then money would be going into the NCAA to provide for the needs for NCAA student-athletes. ALL OF THEM. Wherever they might be going to school and whatever NCAA sport they may be competing in.

Of course people will yell about socialism...and that's fine. But if so...don't wrap yourself up in the farcical idea that its for the benefit of the class of people known as "student-athlete" because it is most assuredly not...not all of them.

Most of the kids playing the game have no problem with schools using "likeness".:In fact most miss the exposure of it.Like alot things,a few people and their lawyers screw it up for everybody.

Hopefully going forward waivers/informed consent can be giving to 18 year olds to sign so EA et al can get back to making more fun for kids who do/don't play D1A.

All this "value" talk is all about lawyers using kids for leverage.Most kids have ZERO problem with getting a free education for their services and knowing the school will be there for them if injured with scholarship money.

This is the greatest time of the life for alot these kids ,leave the lawyers(agents) out of it.3% will go on to NFL and most of those will play less than than 3 years.

Good nutrition and a stipend for full cost of attendance is fair.Further limits on contact and recovery will be tweaked as well.

NCAA is getting most of this correct but enforcement of rules still needs alot of work.

(07-23-2014 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 10:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My biggest issue is shortchanging these kids when it comes to education.

My problem is that the focus is on those that play football for schools that earn billions. They aren't getting their "share" of the billions. It's mostly elite athletes at elite schools not getting the big revenue they generate. And not getting money off of their likeness. And not being able to talk to agents.

But what about the female swimmer at Weber State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the basketball player at Florida Atlantic? He is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the bowler at Arkansas State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. How much is a wrestler at Northern Iowa going to get off of their likeness? How will rules on getting an agent help a Lacrosse player at Widener?

Some animals are more equal than other animals.

They are all student-athletes at NCAA member schools. The NCAA is supposed to be about student-athletes....not some football players at some particular schools.

People are outraged that Alabama's 5-star football player is not getting a stipend...legislation is pushed through....Senate hearings are held....autonomy is demanded...pundits scream. But nobody gives a flying flip about Grambling's student-athletes having to reuse old crappy unsafe equipment.

If this were about "student-athletes" then money would be going into the NCAA to provide for the needs for NCAA student-athletes. ALL OF THEM. Wherever they might be going to school and whatever NCAA sport they may be competing in.

Of course people will yell about socialism...and that's fine. But if so...don't wrap yourself up in the farcical idea that its for the benefit of the class of people known as "student-athlete" because it is most assuredly not...not all of them.

schools dont make Billions on sports and many of these kids work very hard to get their name out there. they want to be more visible and thereby make themselves more valuable at draft time...just look at johnny manziel. a good player yes, but with his value hyped up beyond belief..if you are getting a free college education for being on the wrestling team or playing field hockey, then you should be smart enough going in to know those sports are not in the limelight and probably wont lead to million dollar endorsement contracts.

(07-23-2014 07:40 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 10:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My biggest issue is shortchanging these kids when it comes to education.

My problem is that the focus is on those that play football for schools that earn billions. They aren't getting their "share" of the billions. It's mostly elite athletes at elite schools not getting the big revenue they generate. And not getting money off of their likeness. And not being able to talk to agents.

But what about the female swimmer at Weber State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the basketball player at Florida Atlantic? He is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the bowler at Arkansas State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. How much is a wrestler at Northern Iowa going to get off of their likeness? How will rules on getting an agent help a Lacrosse player at Widener?

Some animals are more equal than other animals.

They are all student-athletes at NCAA member schools. The NCAA is supposed to be about student-athletes....not some football players at some particular schools.

People are outraged that Alabama's 5-star football player is not getting a stipend...legislation is pushed through....Senate hearings are held....autonomy is demanded...pundits scream. But nobody gives a flying flip about Grambling's student-athletes having to reuse old crappy unsafe equipment.

If this were about "student-athletes" then money would be going into the NCAA to provide for the needs for NCAA student-athletes. ALL OF THEM. Wherever they might be going to school and whatever NCAA sport they may be competing in.

Of course people will yell about socialism...and that's fine. But if so...don't wrap yourself up in the farcical idea that its for the benefit of the class of people known as "student-athlete" because it is most assuredly not...not all of them.

schools dont make Billions on sports and many of these kids work very hard to get their name out there. they want to be more visible and thereby make themselves more valuable at draft time...just look at johnny manziel. a good player yes, but with his value hyped up beyond belief..if you are getting a free college education for being on the wrestling team or playing field hockey, then you should be smart enough going in to know those sports are not in the limelight and probably wont lead to million dollar endorsement contracts.

The University of Texas had $163.3 million in athletic revenue in 2011 and $165 million in athletic revenue last year. It takes about 6 years for them to generate a billion in revenue. So yes, they make billions.

You can talk about differences between a field hockey player and Johnny Manziel....but we are talking about an organization that is supposed to represent ALL student-athletes without distinction to their money-making capabilities. The NCAA is supposed to be a non-profit educational organization...not a talent agency.

Truth be told, Johnny Manziel probably needs an education and an NCAA stipend far less than that field hockey player does.

I intend to live forever so yes I make billions

Posted from my BlackBerry Z10 using the CSNbbs app

There is a simple solution for any player angry that they won't get a cut of the large revenues from the big money schools ... transfer to a school where your scholarship is worth a lot more than your value to the institution.

What's ridiculous is that if stipends are implemented then non-revenue sports teams are inevitably going to be shut down at college everywhere. Imagine being an AD and telling a men's wrestling team "I have some good news and bad news, the bad news is you won't have a scholarships after this year. The good news if that you are being liberated from your oppressive scholarship!". I'm sure that will go over well.

The idea that athletes are being "exploited" is a steaming heap of pig s***.

Whatever happened to school loans and grants? If you can't find a job when you graduate in the best physical condition of your life having the leverage of a network of coaches, teammates, an administration, and fans backing you something is terribly wrong with the university/college you chose. Most are covered up in tutors and academic support that the average paying student never receives. The whole discussion sounds more like a discussion of criminals in the penal system rather than students with the freedom to make their own choices. I get the equipment and safety issues. All of this should be regulated at a minimum but the stipends I just don't understand. More food and excellent insurance? Sure. But the story of the kid having to miss class because of issues with getting to and from practice? Ask the "kid" who had to go into the military to get an education for his/her advice. Countless other examples of the struggles of getting an education could be drawn from. Compassion shows up in strange places if you ask me.

The only component that I think is underserved to student athletes today is health insurance. If the players got lifelong health insurance (due to injuries sustained while participating in collegiate athletics can be lifelong problems), I'd say shut up and move on.

Everything after that is a money grab by maybe 200 student athletes across the nation who feel they are entitled to more.

(07-23-2014 08:23 AM)Oldyeller Wrote:  Whatever happened to school loans and grants? If you can't find a job when you graduate in the best physical condition of your life having the leverage of a network of coaches, teammates, an administration, and fans backing you something is terribly wrong with the university/college you chose. Most are covered up in tutors and academic support that the average paying student never receives. The whole discussion sounds more like a discussion of criminals in the penal system rather than students with the freedom to make their own choices. I get the equipment and safety issues. All of this should be regulated at a minimum but the stipends I just don't understand. More food and excellent insurance? Sure. But the story of the kid having to miss class because of issues with getting to and from practice? Ask the "kid" who had to go into the military to get an education for his/her advice. Countless other examples of the struggles of getting an education could be drawn from. Compassion shows up in strange places if you ask me.

My son joined the Army National Guard to supplement his track scholarship. He was deployed for training to go to Iraq while still a student-athlete. Ended up not finishing his degree. Neither he nor I is complaining; just an observation that people in general make sacrifices to get an education; I don't want to hear whining from anyone in a head count [full ride] sport. That being said, I have no issue with a 'full ride' being a full ride and not almost a full ride.

Still seems the P5's are wanting to give stipends due to their policy of do not mess with their
cash cow. That 1974 Oklahoma vs NCAA ruling has created a heck of a lot of disparity in
college athletics. Would almost be better to have everyone do away with scholarships and
just play sports if a student wants to.

(07-23-2014 08:08 AM)panama Wrote:  I intend to live forever so yes I make billions

Posted from my BlackBerry Z10 using the CSNbbs app

6 years is not even close to forever.

(07-23-2014 09:57 AM)Vobserver Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 08:23 AM)Oldyeller Wrote:  Whatever happened to school loans and grants? If you can't find a job when you graduate in the best physical condition of your life having the leverage of a network of coaches, teammates, an administration, and fans backing you something is terribly wrong with the university/college you chose. Most are covered up in tutors and academic support that the average paying student never receives. The whole discussion sounds more like a discussion of criminals in the penal system rather than students with the freedom to make their own choices. I get the equipment and safety issues. All of this should be regulated at a minimum but the stipends I just don't understand. More food and excellent insurance? Sure. But the story of the kid having to miss class because of issues with getting to and from practice? Ask the "kid" who had to go into the military to get an education for his/her advice. Countless other examples of the struggles of getting an education could be drawn from. Compassion shows up in strange places if you ask me.

My son joined the Army National Guard to supplement his track scholarship. He was deployed for training to go to Iraq while still a student-athlete. Ended up not finishing his degree. Neither he nor I is complaining; just an observation that people in general make sacrifices to get an education; I don't want to hear whining from anyone in a head count [full ride] sport. That being said, I have no issue with a 'full ride' being a full ride and not almost a full ride.

I'm with you. I was in the air force reserve during my years of architecture school at uta. the money was a big help and I didnt mind the duty and training. my final design project which made up a huge portion of my grade was due a few days after a deployment and my professor was not a fan of the military and wouldnt give me any more time. basically everyone in my class but me had the full amount of time to work on their submital and my project was not as good as I would have liked it to be. I had to get it mostly finished before I left. many of my friends have or have had kids playing D-1 sports and I promise you that they are pampered. they have trainers and nutritionists and tutors and plenty of casual wear and so on to compensate them for their time and effort.

(07-23-2014 07:51 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 07:40 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 12:44 AM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 10:25 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  My biggest issue is shortchanging these kids when it comes to education.

My problem is that the focus is on those that play football for schools that earn billions. They aren't getting their "share" of the billions. It's mostly elite athletes at elite schools not getting the big revenue they generate. And not getting money off of their likeness. And not being able to talk to agents.

But what about the female swimmer at Weber State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the basketball player at Florida Atlantic? He is an NCAA student-athlete. What about the bowler at Arkansas State? She is an NCAA student-athlete. How much is a wrestler at Northern Iowa going to get off of their likeness? How will rules on getting an agent help a Lacrosse player at Widener?

Some animals are more equal than other animals.

They are all student-athletes at NCAA member schools. The NCAA is supposed to be about student-athletes....not some football players at some particular schools.

People are outraged that Alabama's 5-star football player is not getting a stipend...legislation is pushed through....Senate hearings are held....autonomy is demanded...pundits scream. But nobody gives a flying flip about Grambling's student-athletes having to reuse old crappy unsafe equipment.

If this were about "student-athletes" then money would be going into the NCAA to provide for the needs for NCAA student-athletes. ALL OF THEM. Wherever they might be going to school and whatever NCAA sport they may be competing in.

Of course people will yell about socialism...and that's fine. But if so...don't wrap yourself up in the farcical idea that its for the benefit of the class of people known as "student-athlete" because it is most assuredly not...not all of them.

schools dont make Billions on sports and many of these kids work very hard to get their name out there. they want to be more visible and thereby make themselves more valuable at draft time...just look at johnny manziel. a good player yes, but with his value hyped up beyond belief..if you are getting a free college education for being on the wrestling team or playing field hockey, then you should be smart enough going in to know those sports are not in the limelight and probably wont lead to million dollar endorsement contracts.

The University of Texas had $163.3 million in athletic revenue in 2011 and $165 million in athletic revenue last year. It takes about 6 years for them to generate a billion in revenue. So yes, they make billions.

You can talk about differences between a field hockey player and Johnny Manziel....but we are talking about an organization that is supposed to represent ALL student-athletes without distinction to their money-making capabilities. The NCAA is supposed to be a non-profit educational organization...not a talent agency.

Truth be told, Johnny Manziel probably needs an education and an NCAA stipend far less than that field hockey player does.

yes ut-austin takes in a lot of revenue..they are #1 in that. they also manage to somehow spend all of it. they are not the typical d-1 school fielding a sports program. by your logic even the sun belt schools would make billions...eventually. It's true that the top college kids in football/basketball/baseball could manage fine without a college education..just head right off to the pros...the ncaa institutions could remain amateur and the pro sports could bring the top level athletes right in to a rookie league.

Everyone always uses the University of Texas their example of how a "typical" school makes millions and hundreds of millions of dollars. UT is the exception, not the rule. In fact, out of the top 25 largest athletic budgets in the NCAA (all $90mm+), only 5 do not require some sort of subsidy: Texas, Ohio State, Oklahoma, LSU, and Penn State.

Students are already paying hundreds of dollars per year on subsidizing the athletic program. At what point do you expect those same students to begin spending tuition dollars to subsidize the athletes as well.

I also want to address TheRev's comments about healthcare for life. I played D2 football for 2 years before I transferred to TXST. During spring practice, I tore the labrum and rotator cuff in my throwing shoulder. The school (small private school, very small athletic budget) covered all surgeries, rehab, doctor appointments, etc. for my injury even though they were fully aware that I was not planning to come back from the injury and continue playing football.

Fast forward 8 years, I re-injured the same shoulder snow skiing. The labrum tore in the same spot that was repaired before. One could argue that I wouldn't have re-injured that shoulder snow skiing if it wasn't for the injury I suffered years before playing football. Should that small private school be responsible for paying for another surgery and rehab? If so, football will not exist on that level (D2)...and probably not on our level as well (SBC).