Despite some recent on-the-field progress and gradual improvements in the back offices at Rice, Dr. K's Vision Statement seems to be lacking that "It" factor, and IMO we are in need of a "Surge" to kick start our athletic credibility for the near future.

Although not entirely his fault, Dr. K's recent statement is lacking in some powerful impetus to show the public that Rice is changing exponentially, not merely gradually...

Downsizing the stadium improvements, though logical under our circumstances, does not send a positive message and indicates again Rice is willing to settle, not aspire to greater heights.

A major athletic gift in the $25-50 million range would be a good start.

Any comments?

Go Owls !

(07-22-2014 03:29 PM)owlman70 Wrote:  Despite some recent on-the-field progress and gradual improvements in the back offices at Rice, Dr. K's Vision Statement seems to be lacking that "It" factor, and IMO we are in need of a "Surge" to kick start our athletic credibility for the near future.

Although not entirely his fault, Dr. K's recent statement is lacking in some powerful impetus to show the public that Rice is changing exponentially, not merely gradually...

Downsizing the stadium improvements, though logical under our circumstances, does not send a positive message and indicates again Rice is willing to settle, not aspire to greater heights.

A major athletic gift in the $25-50 million range would be a good start.

Any comments?

Go Owls !

I agree...when are you sending the check?

Seriously, I would love to write that check if I had those funds available.

Well, I would say we "surged" pretty well to get to where Dr. K described in the Chronicle article. That means most of that $30 mil has been pledged.

I mean, we all want it to go as fast as possible. But, when things have been the way they have been for so long, it takes time and persistence to turn the ship. We, as interested fans/alums, just have to keep pushing for positive change.

(07-22-2014 03:29 PM)owlman70 Wrote:  A major athletic gift in the $25-50 million range would be a good start.

Any comments?

I agree. Almost everything would be better if someone else would write a check.

(07-22-2014 03:29 PM)owlman70 Wrote:  Despite some recent on-the-field progress and gradual improvements in the back offices at Rice, Dr. K's Vision Statement seems to be lacking that "It" factor, and IMO we are in need of a "Surge" to kick start our athletic credibility for the near future.

Although not entirely his fault, Dr. K's recent statement is lacking in some powerful impetus to show the public that Rice is changing exponentially, not merely gradually...

Downsizing the stadium improvements, though logical under our circumstances, does not send a positive message and indicates again Rice is willing to settle, not aspire to greater heights.

A major athletic gift in the $25-50 million range would be a good start.

Any comments?

Go Owls !

Yeah-- I STRONGLY disagree with you. First off, IMO, there has been far more than simply "gradual improvements" in the back offices of the Athletic Department. In the 9 months since Dr. K took over the job, he has instilled a much-needed and long-overdue business managemnt structure and discipline that had been woefully lacking the previous 4 - 5 decades. One has to put the foundation in place (and tear down the barriers of past regimes) before aggressively moving forward...and that's precisely what Dr. K has done. As for the scaling back of the RHS renovations-- doing the work in phases instead, that's simply an acknowledgement of reality. I get a sense that Joe wants to avoid overpromising, and ensure that he can in fact deliver on those things he does promise. And so far, from what I have seen (on those specific items I have been involved in), he has done just that.

(07-22-2014 05:19 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 03:29 PM)owlman70 Wrote:  Despite some recent on-the-field progress and gradual improvements in the back offices at Rice, Dr. K's Vision Statement seems to be lacking that "It" factor, and IMO we are in need of a "Surge" to kick start our athletic credibility for the near future.

Although not entirely his fault, Dr. K's recent statement is lacking in some powerful impetus to show the public that Rice is changing exponentially, not merely gradually...

Downsizing the stadium improvements, though logical under our circumstances, does not send a positive message and indicates again Rice is willing to settle, not aspire to greater heights.

A major athletic gift in the $25-50 million range would be a good start.

Any comments?

Go Owls !

Yeah-- I STRONGLY disagree with you. First off, IMO, there has been far more than simply "gradual improvements" in the back offices of the Athletic Department. In the 9 months since Dr. K took over the job, he has instilled a much-needed and long-overdue business managemnt structure and discipline that had been woefully lacking the previous 4 - 5 decades. One has to put the foundation in place (and tear down the barriers of past regimes) before aggressively moving forward...and that's precisely what Dr. K has done. As for the scaling back of the RHS renovations-- doing the work in phases instead, that's simply an acknowledgement of reality. I get a sense that Joe wants to avoid overpromising, and ensure that he can in fact deliver on those things he does promise. And so far, from what I have seen (on those specific items I have been involved in), he has done just that.

The sense I get from some insiders that I don't know particularly well(so I can't vouch for their veracity) is that Rice makes it difficult to donate a gift like $25-50M purely for athletics. They will gladly take your money for the university, but if you say that you want to give that much for athletics alone, you are likely to be given a ton of stipulations that will cause you to reconsider. One thing I was told that was telling, even during the Centennial when Rice received a few major donations in the tens of millions, we never received anything on that order for athletics. I am not an insider so this is to some extant hearsay, but I think if we want something like T. Boone Pickens $165M contribution to OSU athletics, Rice has to try to develop that, it won't just fall from the sky. And it doesn't have to be an Alum, it can just be someone wealthy that lives in Houston.

(07-22-2014 05:35 PM)owl95 Wrote:  The sense I get from some insiders that I don't know particularly well(so I can't vouch for their veracity)...

One thing I was told ...

...this is to some extant hearsay...

I appreciate these qualifications, which reflect well on your honesty. But if you really don't know whether the alleged issue is true, what possible purpose is served by reiterating it?

There are enough verified challenges without our fans conjuring up unverified ones.

(07-22-2014 06:01 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 05:35 PM)owl95 Wrote:  The sense I get from some insiders that I don't know particularly well(so I can't vouch for their veracity)...

One thing I was told ...

...this is to some extant hearsay...

I appreciate these qualifications, which reflect well on your honesty. But if you really don't know whether the alleged issue is true, what possible is served by reiterating it?

There are enough verified challenges without our fans conjuring up unverified ones.

George it is an internet message board ya know

(07-22-2014 06:01 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 05:35 PM)owl95 Wrote:  The sense I get from some insiders that I don't know particularly well(so I can't vouch for their veracity)...

One thing I was told ...

...this is to some extant hearsay...

I appreciate these qualifications, which reflect well on your honesty. But if you really don't know whether the alleged issue is true, what possible purpose is served by reiterating it?

There are enough verified challenges without our fans conjuring up unverified ones.

Well George, for one, I wanted to test the veracity of what I was told. Maybe someone on this board knows better. There's a whole lot more that I was told than that, some of it very disturbing that I won't repeat. Granted this is one person's perspective on the state of things, but others on this board have also mentioned the level of dysfunction in the athletic department over the past few decades.

My feeling is that the more successful and visible Rice's athletics teams become, especially football, the more alums will be inclined to donate. I certainly hope this is true, because it sounds like millions more will be needed to complete the later stages of the stadium redo.

Having said that, I do feel that Rice is hurt by the fact that so many of it's students come from international destinations and/or just care too much about academics to give athletics a second thought. Over the long term, Rice football will need to be consistently successful and the stadium must be a fun place to watch a game for things to change. We must find a way to get students to the games, and in good number. They need that experience to feel connected to the team and the college life. It'll make them want to give back to the university later.

(07-22-2014 06:40 PM)owl95 Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 06:01 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 05:35 PM)owl95 Wrote:  The sense I get from some insiders that I don't know particularly well(so I can't vouch for their veracity)...

One thing I was told ...

...this is to some extant hearsay...

I appreciate these qualifications, which reflect well on your honesty. But if you really don't know whether the alleged issue is true, what possible purpose is served by reiterating it?

There are enough verified challenges without our fans conjuring up unverified ones.

Well George, for one, I wanted to test the veracity of what I was told. Maybe someone on this board knows better. There's a whole lot more that I was told than that, some of it very disturbing that I won't repeat. Granted this is one person's perspective on the state of things, but others on this board have also mentioned the level of dysfunction in the athletic department over the past few decades.

Yes, the Athletic Department HAS BEEN dysfunctional, with no management discipline, for decades; that's really not up for debate....but that is no longer the case.

And I agree with George on this one-- if someone has no first hand (or close second hand) knowledge of what's actually going on, he/she should not be spreading negative rumours (based on admittedly heresay information from people they admit to not knowing that well). That simply does not help the situation.

Again, from my own personal experience, I seriously question the claim that the University makes it very difficult for someone to donate a large, leadership-level gift to Rice Athletics without giving a commensurate gift to the academic side. Sorry, I just don't buy that. (BTW, as an aside, how the heck would the University know until after the fact if one decided to write out a check for $25,000 to the RBI Club or the Owl Club or $100,000 to fund a new scoreboard at Tudor or Reckling? Only endowments require a formal agreement to be prepared and signed by not only the donor and Athletic Department, but also the University Treasuer.)

Yes, the athletic department was historically incredibly dysfunctional. I did bankruptcy work for 20 years and it was the most dysfunctional organization I have ever been around. I'd put the Oilers second and Enron third, for perhaps some perspective. Bobby held the fort and kept things from regressing further, things started to change under Chris (though to be totally fair, I don't care what you think about the guy, but you have to give Todd some credit here), then regressed terribly under Rick Greenspan, and as far as I can tell there has been a quantum change for the better since Joe got here. At this point, he has engineered a transformation so remarkable and so needed that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on most any issue.

As for the donor issue, I'm not a big enough donor to have faced the issue personally, but I spent much of my adult life close enough to the program to have a pretty good understanding of what was happening. I think I probably qualify as an insider and I can say two things from my perspective. One, the situation was precisely as described by Owl95 for decades. I am aware of multiple instances where donors wishing to make large donations to athletics were sent packing. Two, things have changed for the better in recent years, and the person primarily responsible for that change is David Leebron. Tudor doesn't get built under the former policy.

So my bottom line is that on both issues we are light years better than we have been in 50 years. I only wish this attitude had been in place when Jess retired.

Perhaps I should rephrase my caveat: while past difficulties may be historically interesting, we should be careful not to reiterate them as if they are still current. There are enough present challenges without conjuring up the ghosts of old ones.

And some would say those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

(07-23-2014 09:19 AM)Barrett Wrote:  And some would say those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

That is true. But, in this case, we want to forget at least that portion of it.

(07-22-2014 07:05 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  My feeling is that the more successful and visible Rice's athletics teams become, especially football, the more alums will be inclined to donate. I certainly hope this is true, because it sounds like millions more will be needed to complete the later stages of the stadium redo.

Having said that, I do feel that Rice is hurt by the fact that so many of it's students come from international destinations and/or just care too much about academics to give athletics a second thought. Over the long term, Rice football will need to be consistently successful and the stadium must be a fun place to watch a game for things to change. We must find a way to get students to the games, and in good number. They need that experience to feel connected to the team and the college life. It'll make them want to give back to the university later.

I totally agree with this.
The demographics of the student body has changed dramatically at Rice over the last three decades. Sure, we still have some Texas students and some U.S. students with a passing interest in athletics. But there is a large and growing number of students (international and U.S.) that don't have that background. 20 years from now, if we haven't generated some genuine interest coming from these newbies, the athletic department will be soliciting donations from a smaller and smaller interested base. I really think it's critical that Dr. K tries to develop student interest in athletics..more now than ever. The games have to be perceived as fun and an integral part of the Rice experience. Otherwise, as the old OWL base dies out the support will too.

(07-23-2014 09:41 AM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 07:05 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  My feeling is that the more successful and visible Rice's athletics teams become, especially football, the more alums will be inclined to donate. I certainly hope this is true, because it sounds like millions more will be needed to complete the later stages of the stadium redo.

Having said that, I do feel that Rice is hurt by the fact that so many of it's students come from international destinations and/or just care too much about academics to give athletics a second thought. Over the long term, Rice football will need to be consistently successful and the stadium must be a fun place to watch a game for things to change. We must find a way to get students to the games, and in good number. They need that experience to feel connected to the team and the college life. It'll make them want to give back to the university later.

I totally agree with this.
The demographics of the student body has changed dramatically at Rice over the last three decades. Sure, we still have some Texas students and some U.S. students with a passing interest in athletics. But there is a large and growing number of students (international and U.S.) that don't have that background. 20 years from now, if we haven't generated some genuine interest coming from these newbies, the athletic department will be soliciting donations from a smaller and smaller interested base. I really think it's critical that Dr. K tries to develop student interest in athletics..more now than ever. The games have to be perceived as fun and an integral part of the Rice experience. Otherwise, as the old OWL base dies out the support will too.

Well said Greyowl72!

(07-23-2014 09:45 AM)Pan95 Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 09:41 AM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 07:05 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  My feeling is that the more successful and visible Rice's athletics teams become, especially football, the more alums will be inclined to donate. I certainly hope this is true, because it sounds like millions more will be needed to complete the later stages of the stadium redo.

Having said that, I do feel that Rice is hurt by the fact that so many of it's students come from international destinations and/or just care too much about academics to give athletics a second thought. Over the long term, Rice football will need to be consistently successful and the stadium must be a fun place to watch a game for things to change. We must find a way to get students to the games, and in good number. They need that experience to feel connected to the team and the college life. It'll make them want to give back to the university later.

I totally agree with this.
The demographics of the student body has changed dramatically at Rice over the last three decades. Sure, we still have some Texas students and some U.S. students with a passing interest in athletics. But there is a large and growing number of students (international and U.S.) that don't have that background. 20 years from now, if we haven't generated some genuine interest coming from these newbies, the athletic department will be soliciting donations from a smaller and smaller interested base. I really think it's critical that Dr. K tries to develop student interest in athletics..more now than ever. The games have to be perceived as fun and an integral part of the Rice experience. Otherwise, as the old OWL base dies out the support will too.

Well said Greyowl72!

While I do agree with the need to rekindle the interest of the student body-- and greatly increase their attendance at events (and Dr. K is well aware of this!), the onus for making this happen falls equally on the Athletic Department, the Administration and the ARA....and I know that this is a priority with at least two of these three parties (the AD and ARA). Having said that, it's one thing to identify and agree on the problem; it's another to the slide toward athletic apathy which is 3 decades in the making (do far more to changing conference affiliation and the universal availability of smart phones/internet/video games/et al. than changing demographics of the student body).

(07-23-2014 09:41 AM)greyowl72 Wrote:  

(07-22-2014 07:05 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  My feeling is that the more successful and visible Rice's athletics teams become, especially football, the more alums will be inclined to donate. I certainly hope this is true, because it sounds like millions more will be needed to complete the later stages of the stadium redo.

Having said that, I do feel that Rice is hurt by the fact that so many of it's students come from international destinations and/or just care too much about academics to give athletics a second thought. Over the long term, Rice football will need to be consistently successful and the stadium must be a fun place to watch a game for things to change. We must find a way to get students to the games, and in good number. They need that experience to feel connected to the team and the college life. It'll make them want to give back to the university later.

I totally agree with this.
The demographics of the student body has changed dramatically at Rice over the last three decades. Sure, we still have some Texas students and some U.S. students with a passing interest in athletics. But there is a large and growing number of students (international and U.S.) that don't have that background. 20 years from now, if we haven't generated some genuine interest coming from these newbies, the athletic department will be soliciting donations from a smaller and smaller interested base. I really think it's critical that Dr. K tries to develop student interest in athletics..more now than ever. The games have to be perceived as fun and an integral part of the Rice experience. Otherwise, as the old OWL base dies out the support will too.

Two points to address this:

1. Coaches need to understand that the Rice job requires far more effort on their part to make this happen than does, say, a job at aTm. I'd say Scott Thompson was the prototype of what is needed.

2. Chris had one idea that I thought was very good in this regard, which was to increase greatly the support for club and intramural sports. The more people who feel that they own some piece of athletics, and the better they remember their undergraduate athletic experiences, the broader the support base going forward.

(07-22-2014 07:11 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Yes, the Athletic Department HAS BEEN dysfunctional, with no management discipline, for decades; that's really not up for debate....but that is no longer the case.

It's not out of the weeds yet. There have been some key departures and will be some more due to the current dysfunctional management. K might know where he wants to go but seems to be in no hurry to get there.

edit: grammar