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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #1
4 year scholarships
So, news was made by a program adopting 4 year scholarships rather than the year to year renewable ones that everyone uses. I thought previoulsy that this could be a tactic for G5 schools to gain an upperhand against the lower rung P5 schools. It is getting some publicity.

In practice, I doubt this is really a gamechanger. Teams don't typically just yank a scholarship away without first encouraging a player to find a place where he "fits" better and they help the player with that transition. I imagine even with a 4 year "guarantee", coaches will have heart to hearts with underperforming players and explain that they will likely see their PT diminish to the point that they might want to think about transferring.


Unless you are George Costanza you don't want to hole up in your bunker and go through all the work when you know you are not wanted.
06-25-2014 01:16 PM
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WhitetailWizard Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-25-2014 01:16 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  So, news was made by a program adopting 4 year scholarships rather than the year to year renewable ones that everyone uses. I thought previoulsy that this could be a tactic for G5 schools to gain an upperhand against the lower rung P5 schools. It is getting some publicity.

In practice, I doubt this is really a gamechanger. Teams don't typically just yank a scholarship away without first encouraging a player to find a place where he "fits" better and they help the player with that transition. I imagine even with a 4 year "guarantee", coaches will have heart to hearts with underperforming players and explain that they will likely see their PT diminish to the point that they might want to think about transferring.


Unless you are George Costanza you don't want to hole up in your bunker and go through all the work when you know you are not wanted.

I think the "unhappy" kids may get that talk but kids that are what the coaches thought they were off the field are usually encouraged.....makes for the best locker room.
06-25-2014 10:06 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-25-2014 01:16 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  So, news was made by a program adopting 4 year scholarships rather than the year to year renewable ones that everyone uses. I thought previoulsy that this could be a tactic for G5 schools to gain an upperhand against the lower rung P5 schools. It is getting some publicity.

In practice, I doubt this is really a gamechanger. Teams don't typically just yank a scholarship away without first encouraging a player to find a place where he "fits" better and they help the player with that transition. I imagine even with a 4 year "guarantee", coaches will have heart to hearts with underperforming players and explain that they will likely see their PT diminish to the point that they might want to think about transferring.


Unless you are George Costanza you don't want to hole up in your bunker and go through all the work when you know you are not wanted.

Player don't have sleepers built into desks.
06-25-2014 10:58 PM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
Tell that to some OkSt players (former). According to an SI report that school did some shady things not only to get recruits, but when they no longer could benefit the program (maybe grades, injuries) they were let go and had no way to continue with school. If all the reports (heck even if half are real) about OSU then I hope that program falls on hard times and doesn't win a championship until those that did the deeds are far removed from the school.

giving them a full 4 year scholarship would help student/athletes who may get injured or have special needs arise to continue school to finish their degree. Now if the student breaks the rules to get kicked off the team then I can see the scholarship being revoked. I can see the benefits, but there is also downsides too.

I don have a question though, what about being redshirted? wouldn't you need a 5 year scholarship then?
(This post was last modified: 06-26-2014 08:12 AM by trueeagle98.)
06-26-2014 08:07 AM
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RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-26-2014 08:07 AM)trueeagle98 Wrote:  Tell that to some OkSt players (former). According to an SI report that school did some shady things not only to get recruits, but when they no longer could benefit the program (maybe grades, injuries) they were let go and had no way to continue with school. If all the reports (heck even if half are real) about OSU then I hope that program falls on hard times and doesn't win a championship until those that did the deeds are far removed from the school.

giving them a full 4 year scholarship would help student/athletes who may get injured or have special needs arise to continue school to finish their degree. Now if the student breaks the rules to get kicked off the team then I can see the scholarship being revoked. I can see the benefits, but there is also downsides too.

I don have a question though, what about being redshirted? wouldn't you need a 5 year scholarship then?

If you are taking and passing your classes you should have your degree in four years. The kid will have to go to grad school unless he has failed classes or switched majors I guess.

Scholarships should be four years no if ands or buts about it. You cant justify a coach having the power to not release a kid out of a scholarship and dictate who the kid can play for but be able to "creatively" cut him whenever you want at the same time. I am glad this is a not dictated by the conferences or even the NCAA as the schools like OSU and coaches like Spurrier would kill it. Huge recruiting advantage for the schools that do. If I am a kid without J. Clowney talent coming out of high school I would always choose a school I know four years is garunteed.
06-26-2014 08:38 AM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
If the player maintains grades and doesn't break school/team rules then the scholarship should not be revoked for any other reason (ex: injury, not performing to expected levels and new recruits replace him, etc...)

Now my question remains. Lets say a player is redshirted or needs 4.5 years to graduate (most of my friends took longer than 4 years to graduate and they maintained grades and minimum hours). Does the scholly run out before he is done? Do we not allow players to be redshirted?
06-26-2014 08:43 AM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #7
RE: 4 year scholarships
Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.
06-26-2014 02:31 PM
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WhitetailWizard Offline
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Post: #8
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

What we have now is fine.Schools have PAID for the right to make a kid have to sit out to transfer FBS.The kid/family understands that when signing.

Coaches are paid good money to evaluate talent and if they miss it's usually just a little and some contribution by the player can be made in 4-5 years.Most programs aren't "cutting" kids due to talent and certainly not in G5 programs where bonafide superbly gifted players are slim.

Fans may want more proactive roster manipulation based on playability of the student athlete but it's not happening.The less than expected kid that's doing right by the program will keep his scholarship as long as he's working to get better in every facet from community service,academics,team chemistry etc.

Lots of moving parts exists to keeping a healthy locker room and academic standards nowadays
(This post was last modified: 06-27-2014 10:52 AM by WhitetailWizard.)
06-27-2014 10:48 AM
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Panthersville Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.
06-27-2014 10:55 AM
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Vobserver Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 10:55 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.

If you do that, you might as well shut down every athletic department in the G5 and about 2/3 of the P5. The $100,000,000 budget schools will load up with 200 kids, just like they used to do.
06-27-2014 12:25 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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Post: #11
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 10:55 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.

I would have agreed with this 20-25 years ago before college athletics became Big Business. You don't see elite athletes now going to college to get their degrees and just happen that they have a gift to help them pay for that degree. Not at the IA level. They go to college to be a draft pick.

If the NFL had a minor league set up like the NHL do you think the SEC and to some extent the B10 would exist the way they do right now. Not a chance, those high profile kids would sign a minor league deal instead of going to college.

Its the same reason I have a problem with 1 and dones in college basketball. After watching the NBA draft last night and seeing kids like Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid and Julius Randle, those kids never wanted to go to college. I wish the NBA or NCAA would put a 2 year rule in. I would like to see the NCAA really put a 3 year rule in, that if you sign with an NCAA school you have to play 3 years. If you don't want to do that, go play overseas for a few years then.
06-27-2014 12:37 PM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #12
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 12:37 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:55 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.

I would have agreed with this 20-25 years ago before college athletics became Big Business. You don't see elite athletes now going to college to get their degrees and just happen that they have a gift to help them pay for that degree. Not at the IA level. They go to college to be a draft pick.

If the NFL had a minor league set up like the NHL do you think the SEC and to some extent the B10 would exist the way they do right now. Not a chance, those high profile kids would sign a minor league deal instead of going to college.

Its the same reason I have a problem with 1 and dones in college basketball. After watching the NBA draft last night and seeing kids like Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid and Julius Randle, those kids never wanted to go to college. I wish the NBA or NCAA would put a 2 year rule in. I would like to see the NCAA really put a 3 year rule in, that if you sign with an NCAA school you have to play 3 years. If you don't want to do that, go play overseas for a few years then.
Yes the Big10 and SEC would exist the way they currently do. Smaller programs would be around at all. If a young man or woman can die for their country at age 18. Then why can't they play a sport for a living? They can start a business or begin a career. But they can't get paid to play a sport?
06-27-2014 02:40 PM
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Panthersville Offline
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Post: #13
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 12:37 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:55 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.

I would have agreed with this 20-25 years ago before college athletics became Big Business. You don't see elite athletes now going to college to get their degrees and just happen that they have a gift to help them pay for that degree. Not at the IA level. They go to college to be a draft pick.

If the NFL had a minor league set up like the NHL do you think the SEC and to some extent the B10 would exist the way they do right now. Not a chance, those high profile kids would sign a minor league deal instead of going to college.

Its the same reason I have a problem with 1 and dones in college basketball. After watching the NBA draft last night and seeing kids like Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid and Julius Randle, those kids never wanted to go to college. I wish the NBA or NCAA would put a 2 year rule in. I would like to see the NCAA really put a 3 year rule in, that if you sign with an NCAA school you have to play 3 years. If you don't want to do that, go play overseas for a few years then.

You are making the same mistake the sports radio jocks do - the overwhelming majority of D1 football players know they will never be drafted. College football gives them an opportunity to get an education. Would some go to a minor league for the NFL? Sure. But here's the dirty little secret - nobody would watch such a thing any more that they watch D-league basketball or minor league baseball. College football works because people want to support their school, not because of star players. If the best players went to a minor league NFL, the attendance/interest in CFB wouldn't drop - in fact, it might increase as more players would stick around for 4 years.

You are right about 1-and-dones in College Basketball, but when the best players could be drafted straight from high school, did that hurt College Basketball? I don't think so. The problem is that the NCAA doesn't control when players can be drafted, the NBA does. The NFL has a rule that you can't be drafted until you have been out of high school for three years. The NBA has adopted a one-year rule. I'd like to see them do it the way MLB does: you can be drafted out of high-school, but if you decide to go to college, you have to stay three years. That would be perfect for the NBA.
06-27-2014 03:01 PM
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Panthersville Offline
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Post: #14
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 12:25 PM)Vobserver Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 10:55 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  
(06-26-2014 02:31 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Having 4 year scholarships I think would be extremely nieve for any school. Just as any player should have the right to tell a coach/program they are transferring to another school. I think a coach should be able to tell a player that after evaluating their talent that they aren't a DI talent, and they would help them find a home that would more suit their abilities. If you have 4 year scholarships you could be stuck with more than 2-3 players taking up space that's just not productive.

All scholarships should be "degree" scholarships (i.e. if you go to class and make grades, you can stay until you get your degree). However, that should be separate from the 85 scholarship limit. If someone isn't worth having on the team, the coaches should be able to move that scholarship off-roster and add a new one - but that doesn't mean the first kid loses his scholarship. If he then wants to transfer to where he can play, that is his choice - but he shouldn't have to change schools just because his coaches got their evaluation wrong.

If you do that, you might as well shut down every athletic department in the G5 and about 2/3 of the P5. The $100,000,000 budget schools will load up with 200 kids, just like they used to do.

You would still have the 25-a-year signing cap. That gives you 15 kids you can move off-roster every four years.
06-27-2014 03:03 PM
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HerdZoned Offline
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RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 02:40 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Yes the Big10 and SEC would exist the way they currently do. Smaller programs would be around at all. If a young man or woman can die for their country at age 18. Then why can't they play a sport for a living? They can start a business or begin a career. But they can't get paid to play a sport?

No they wouldn't. If the NFL had a minor league system like the NHL where you have a junior league and 3-4 minor leagues with 25-30 teams each. The top talent would not be going to Alabama, LSU, Michigan or Ohio State instead they would be signing junior league deals at 14-15 and getting to the mid to higher leagues by 18-19 and those good enough would be called up to the NFL around 21-22.

My guess if the NFL had put in place a minor league system 35-40 years ago when the NFL started to really take off, NCAA football would be about as popular as college hockey is.

Very rarely do you see a 1st or 2nd round draft pick coming out of a P5 conference as a 4th or 5th year senior, with a degree. Those kids no more wanted to go to college than a man in the moon. The elite athlete goes to college solely to be a draft pick in 2 years, not to get an education.

Those 1st and 2nd round draft picks that come out of the NAQ schools will most likely be a 4th or 5th year senior and worked their way into the 1st or 2nd round. Then you get that special talent that fell though the cracks everywhere that makes it in cases like Jerry Rice and Phil Simms.
06-27-2014 06:52 PM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #16
RE: 4 year scholarships
(06-27-2014 06:52 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  
(06-27-2014 02:40 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Yes the Big10 and SEC would exist the way they currently do. Smaller programs would be around at all. If a young man or woman can die for their country at age 18. Then why can't they play a sport for a living? They can start a business or begin a career. But they can't get paid to play a sport?

No they wouldn't. If the NFL had a minor league system like the NHL where you have a junior league and 3-4 minor leagues with 25-30 teams each. The top talent would not be going to Alabama, LSU, Michigan or Ohio State instead they would be signing junior league deals at 14-15 and getting to the mid to higher leagues by 18-19 and those good enough would be called up to the NFL around 21-22.

My guess if the NFL had put in place a minor league system 35-40 years ago when the NFL started to really take off, NCAA football would be about as popular as college hockey is.

Very rarely do you see a 1st or 2nd round draft pick coming out of a P5 conference as a 4th or 5th year senior, with a degree. Those kids no more wanted to go to college than a man in the moon. The elite athlete goes to college solely to be a draft pick in 2 years, not to get an education.

Those 1st and 2nd round draft picks that come out of the NAQ schools will most likely be a 4th or 5th year senior and worked their way into the 1st or 2nd round. Then you get that special talent that fell though the cracks everywhere that makes it in cases like Jerry Rice and Phil Simms.
Your correct in that the top talent would go to the NFL. But of the talent that couldn't go to the NFL minor league. The Big10 and SEC would be getting the best talent of that group. Most likely we wouldn't have Division 2 football at all.
06-27-2014 10:23 PM
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