(05-07-2014 07:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:02 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 09:24 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 08:44 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  At this point it looks like RILEY and BRYANT level talent will not be replaced. There might be a slight drop-off next year but this line-up is at least intriguing. If not capable of being competitive.

(And who knows, something might click for Ajavi next year. Which is not uncommon in college basketball. )

Ajayi's play down the stretch left me massively encouraged. He's probably not ever going to be a stud, but he works his ass off on the glass on both ends. He could average double digit rebounds if he can avoid foul trouble. I think with increased minutes, he will improve.

We could be riding that starting five pretty heavily, but if the newcomers can play (especially the freshmen guards) right away, then I don't see a drop off at all. In my eyes, we return our best and most important player from last year (Talley), our leading scorer and rebounder (Ward), and a guy who could very well explode (Lee). While other teams have to replace their stars, we really don't. That'll be huge. Any additional depth will be a nice bonus.

Excellent points! Or at least it appeals to my wishful thinking.

No EMU player averaged in the 30 minute range last year- of course until they made a run in the MAC tourney that is. Ramsey coached like this too. I think this is a mistake, players get cold on the bench. On some levels I hope Murphy is forced to give his starters appropriate minutes.

Good point. While having depth is a great thing, I also thought Murphy would get a bit stubborn with it and bury guys on the bench after one defensive screw-up. Only Talley and Ward averaged close to 30 minutes last year...I bet they both surpass that mark this coming season. Same with Lee. They will be leaned on quite a bit, which isn't a bad thing, for they are very good players.

But of course we gloss over the fact that Lee was inconsistent which is why Combs (now departed) started some games over Lee. Secondly as we found out last year the new rule on fouls ended racking some teams into foul trouble meaning they had to go to their bench much sooner or more often. That's no concern when you had Combs, Bryant Hughley Sims and Harrison on the bench at different times. Now what you have is inexperience.

(05-06-2014 06:16 PM)holybovine Wrote:  I said this several times last season, but was shushed: last season's EMU squad was the most talented we will see for some time, and represents the ceiling for the program under Murphy. Whether that is good enough or not depends on your perspective.

Yes Murphy is like a handyman, he appears to be great at fixing problems quickly. The question is can Murphy transition from being a Mr. Fix It to actually building a program long term? This is the first year he gets shows whether he can make the transition.

(05-07-2014 07:36 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:02 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 09:24 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 08:44 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  At this point it looks like RILEY and BRYANT level talent will not be replaced. There might be a slight drop-off next year but this line-up is at least intriguing. If not capable of being competitive.

(And who knows, something might click for Ajavi next year. Which is not uncommon in college basketball. )

Ajayi's play down the stretch left me massively encouraged. He's probably not ever going to be a stud, but he works his ass off on the glass on both ends. He could average double digit rebounds if he can avoid foul trouble. I think with increased minutes, he will improve.

We could be riding that starting five pretty heavily, but if the newcomers can play (especially the freshmen guards) right away, then I don't see a drop off at all. In my eyes, we return our best and most important player from last year (Talley), our leading scorer and rebounder (Ward), and a guy who could very well explode (Lee). While other teams have to replace their stars, we really don't. That'll be huge. Any additional depth will be a nice bonus.

Excellent points! Or at least it appeals to my wishful thinking.

No EMU player averaged in the 30 minute range last year- of course until they made a run in the MAC tourney that is. Ramsey coached like this too. I think this is a mistake, players get cold on the bench. On some levels I hope Murphy is forced to give his starters appropriate minutes.

Good point. While having depth is a great thing, I also thought Murphy would get a bit stubborn with it and bury guys on the bench after one defensive screw-up. Only Talley and Ward averaged close to 30 minutes last year...I bet they both surpass that mark this coming season. Same with Lee. They will be leaned on quite a bit, which isn't a bad thing, for they are very good players.

But of course we gloss over the fact that Lee was inconsistent which is why Combs (now departed) started some games over Lee. Secondly as we found out last year the new rule on fouls ended racking some teams into foul trouble meaning they had to go to their bench much sooner or more often. That's no concern when you had Combs, Bryant Hughley Sims and Harrison on the bench at different times. Now what you have is inexperience.

Lee was a freshman. Point me out a consistent freshman, and I'll show you a guy that's probably a lottery pick. You're conveniently leaving out that idea that players improve from season to season (gasp!). Combs had some huge games, but he also shot us out of plenty of games too.

We have forward depth, unless you know something about Nazione and Okoloji that I don't. Okoloji has plenty of experience, and Nazione was a very productive JUCO. And these are the backups.

Again, you keep bringing up Hughley, and I'll keep saying we all had no clue who he was until August. How about letting Murphy finish putting the team together before you write off the season?

(05-07-2014 07:33 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 06:25 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 05:51 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 07:34 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 07:21 AM)emu79 Wrote:  No it wins with guys like Sims, Riley, Bryant, Harrison, Combs, Hughley-guys who are no longer here.

And with guys like Talley, Ward, and Lee- Who are still here.

Sorry I don't see us winning 22 games again next year.

You've made that abundantly clear. Thankfully, that's why they play the games.

Well Sam , tell me why you think we'll win 22 again. You haven't provided me with a convincing set of facts to think otherwise. Or are still debating whether Murphy's recruiting class for 2014 isn't great but its not bad either? And yes whether you think they'll win 22 or not, we're all thankful they play the games.

Depends on the schedule, and again, how the final product looks. You're writing off the team without knowing a multitude of factors. I have no clue how we'll do. I just don't think the sky is falling like you do.

(05-06-2014 10:11 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  I will concede Bryant wasnt the next coming of Scottie Pippen. But his length with Riley allowed the match up to entice and then take away passing lanes. It gave pause to many who played against it and since offense is predicated on rhythm that disruption helped.

Look, EMU's MO was holding others to ridiculously low point outputs. Not outscoring others. Two key players from that equation are gone. 3 using your inclusion of Dylan. So I don't see the strength EMU flexed as getting better. Just the opposite. It's offense may be more productive, but yet to be proven. But in no way can it be imagined to make up for the additional points EMU will give up with a weakened D.

Or do you see it differently?

i think it's too early to tell. but if our defense does remain as effective, i think these things have to happen:

- Lee, who had flashes of good defense and worked hard on that end, becomes more consistent. he's a mercurial dude, but he's not lazy. he has the talent and drive to be a very good defender. the risk is that he never puts his talent together properly.
- Price (same height as Bryant) is a quicker, thinner version of Bryant and does a better job staying with players that dribble drive from the arc (Bryant had a hard time with that). he played sparingly at DePaul and sat out this season, so i don't know what to expect from him, but this would be the best case scenario.
- Ajayi is less foul-prone (insane fouls-per-minute numbers for him this year). He isn't as tall as Riley, but he's very athletic. he has the potential to be as disruptive in the middle as Riley, just in a different way.
- we find a good backup center

in my opinion, the Ajayi improvement is the least likely of these scenarios.

(05-07-2014 08:04 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:36 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:10 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:02 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  

(05-05-2014 09:24 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Ajayi's play down the stretch left me massively encouraged. He's probably not ever going to be a stud, but he works his ass off on the glass on both ends. He could average double digit rebounds if he can avoid foul trouble. I think with increased minutes, he will improve.

We could be riding that starting five pretty heavily, but if the newcomers can play (especially the freshmen guards) right away, then I don't see a drop off at all. In my eyes, we return our best and most important player from last year (Talley), our leading scorer and rebounder (Ward), and a guy who could very well explode (Lee). While other teams have to replace their stars, we really don't. That'll be huge. Any additional depth will be a nice bonus.

Excellent points! Or at least it appeals to my wishful thinking.

No EMU player averaged in the 30 minute range last year- of course until they made a run in the MAC tourney that is. Ramsey coached like this too. I think this is a mistake, players get cold on the bench. On some levels I hope Murphy is forced to give his starters appropriate minutes.

Good point. While having depth is a great thing, I also thought Murphy would get a bit stubborn with it and bury guys on the bench after one defensive screw-up. Only Talley and Ward averaged close to 30 minutes last year...I bet they both surpass that mark this coming season. Same with Lee. They will be leaned on quite a bit, which isn't a bad thing, for they are very good players.

But of course we gloss over the fact that Lee was inconsistent which is why Combs (now departed) started some games over Lee. Secondly as we found out last year the new rule on fouls ended racking some teams into foul trouble meaning they had to go to their bench much sooner or more often. That's no concern when you had Combs, Bryant Hughley Sims and Harrison on the bench at different times. Now what you have is inexperience.

Lee was a freshman. Point me out a consistent freshman, and I'll show you a guy that's probably a lottery pick. You're conveniently leaving out that idea that players improve from season to season (gasp!). Combs had some huge games, but he also shot us out of plenty of games too.

We have forward depth, unless you know something about Nazione and Okoloji that I don't. Okoloji has plenty of experience, and Nazione was a very productive JUCO. And these are the backups.

Again, you keep bringing up Hughley, and I'll keep saying we all had no clue who he was until August. How about letting Murphy finish putting the team together before you write off the season?

Lee was a freshman. Point me out a consistent freshman, and I'll show you a guy that's probably a lottery pick.

That's good Sam, because our back court depth will be two true freshmen and Farhart and Perry. I assume you'll agree with me that none are lottery picks.

(05-07-2014 08:06 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:33 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 06:25 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 05:51 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 07:34 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  And with guys like Talley, Ward, and Lee- Who are still here.

Sorry I don't see us winning 22 games again next year.

You've made that abundantly clear. Thankfully, that's why they play the games.

Well Sam , tell me why you think we'll win 22 again. You haven't provided me with a convincing set of facts to think otherwise. Or are still debating whether Murphy's recruiting class for 2014 isn't great but its not bad either? And yes whether you think they'll win 22 or not, we're all thankful they play the games.

Depends on the schedule, and again, how the final product looks. You're writing off the team without knowing a multitude of factors. I have no clue how we'll do. I just don't think the sky is falling like you do.

Sam, I'm not writing off the team just making a point that I don't see us doing better than last year. I do believe we may end up worse than third in the MAC West.

(05-07-2014 11:19 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:11 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  I will concede Bryant wasnt the next coming of Scottie Pippen. But his length with Riley allowed the match up to entice and then take away passing lanes. It gave pause to many who played against it and since offense is predicated on rhythm that disruption helped.

Look, EMU's MO was holding others to ridiculously low point outputs. Not outscoring others. Two key players from that equation are gone. 3 using your inclusion of Dylan. So I don't see the strength EMU flexed as getting better. Just the opposite. It's offense may be more productive, but yet to be proven. But in no way can it be imagined to make up for the additional points EMU will give up with a weakened D.

Or do you see it differently?

i think it's too early to tell. but if our defense does remain as effective, i think these things have to happen:

- Lee, who had flashes of good defense and worked hard on that end, becomes more consistent. he's a mercurial dude, but he's not lazy. he has the talent and drive to be a very good defender. the risk is that he never puts his talent together properly.
- Price (same height as Bryant) is a quicker, thinner version of Bryant and does a better job staying with players that dribble drive from the arc (Bryant had a hard time with that). he played sparingly at DePaul and sat out this season, so i don't know what to expect from him, but this would be the best case scenario.
- Ajayi is less foul-prone (insane fouls-per-minute numbers for him this year). He isn't as tall as Riley, but he's very athletic. he has the potential to be as disruptive in the middle as Riley, just in a different way.
- we find a good backup center

in my opinion, the Ajayi improvement is the least likely of these scenarios.

I'm beginning to think that "we find a good backup center" is the least likely of these scenarios.

(05-07-2014 11:35 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 08:06 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 07:33 AM)emu79 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 06:25 AM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 05:51 AM)emu79 Wrote:  Sorry I don't see us winning 22 games again next year.

You've made that abundantly clear. Thankfully, that's why they play the games.

Well Sam , tell me why you think we'll win 22 again. You haven't provided me with a convincing set of facts to think otherwise. Or are still debating whether Murphy's recruiting class for 2014 isn't great but its not bad either? And yes whether you think they'll win 22 or not, we're all thankful they play the games.

Depends on the schedule, and again, how the final product looks. You're writing off the team without knowing a multitude of factors. I have no clue how we'll do. I just don't think the sky is falling like you do.

Sam, I'm not writing off the team just making a point that I don't see us doing better than last year. I do believe we may end up worse than third in the MAC West.

We very well may. Or we could win the MAC West. It kinda depends on how good the newcomers are. It's very hard to predict.

(05-07-2014 11:19 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:11 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  I will concede Bryant wasnt the next coming of Scottie Pippen. But his length with Riley allowed the match up to entice and then take away passing lanes. It gave pause to many who played against it and since offense is predicated on rhythm that disruption helped.

Look, EMU's MO was holding others to ridiculously low point outputs. Not outscoring others. Two key players from that equation are gone. 3 using your inclusion of Dylan. So I don't see the strength EMU flexed as getting better. Just the opposite. It's offense may be more productive, but yet to be proven. But in no way can it be imagined to make up for the additional points EMU will give up with a weakened D.

Or do you see it differently?

i think it's too early to tell. but if our defense does remain as effective, i think these things have to happen:

- Lee, who had flashes of good defense and worked hard on that end, becomes more consistent. he's a mercurial dude, but he's not lazy. he has the talent and drive to be a very good defender. the risk is that he never puts his talent together properly.
- Price (same height as Bryant) is a quicker, thinner version of Bryant and does a better job staying with players that dribble drive from the arc (Bryant had a hard time with that). he played sparingly at DePaul and sat out this season, so i don't know what to expect from him, but this would be the best case scenario.
- Ajayi is less foul-prone (insane fouls-per-minute numbers for him this year). He isn't as tall as Riley, but he's very athletic. he has the potential to be as disruptive in the middle as Riley, just in a different way.
- we find a good backup center

in my opinion, the Ajayi improvement is the least likely of these scenarios.

That's fair. Although I did think Ajayi's play near the end of the season somewhat suggested that he just needs consistent minutes to improve. With how little he played in the middle of the season, it's understandable as to why he would've been too aggressive and foul prone.

After watching some of his highlights, I won't be surprised if Okoloji ends up as a starter. Great wing size (6'8 230), decent shooting touch, and he plays his ass off. A very "Murphy" player. If anything, he'll be a great option off the bench.

I still think we add another guard on top of the big man. While I think the freshmen guards are going to be good players, it may be too much to ask for immediate contributions from both. Or maybe Murphy thinks they are ready. I honestly don't know.

IF THE STAFF BROUGHT IN MALIK ALBERT, HE WOULD BE INSTANT OFFENSE AND COULD EVENTUALLY START IF HE PLAYS D.

WISHFUL THINKING BUT WE MAY BE WAITING ON HIM. HE IS A M.L.KING PREP AND BENNY WHITE COACHED THERE PRIOR TO ACCEPTING THE EMU JOB. TIME WILL TELL

STILL HAVE TO FIND A CENTER. COULD BE A TRANSFER WITH ONE YRS ELIGIBILITY LEFT

CLASS OF 2014 - WHEN IS THE LAST OFFICIAL SIGNING DATE FOR THIS GROUP? HAS TO BE SOON LIKE THE END OF MAY????

WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT DATE ?

That's just an LOI deadline. They can still commit to schools after that.

It's not easy to magically come up with a transfer center -- those guys are in short supply and everyone wants one, including our friends in Ann Arbor. In addition, we would be last on any potential transfer's list because of attendance problems and Murphy's ever-increasing negative rep.

Ever-increasing negative rep? How do you figure?

A couple guys who have left recently indicated that they weren't enjoying the game anymore. Recruits and transfers pay attention to that stuff, whether it's valid or not.

One guy did. Not a couple. I don't think Ross had anything bad to say. If he did then Im obviously wrong.

Even then, that happens at basically every school. Even the big ones. If guys aren't coming here simply because Darell Combs didn't like it, then that's a shame. You can't/won't please everybody. But as far as I know, he's literally the only former player to say anything bad about the team.

(05-07-2014 01:40 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  One guy did. Not a couple. I don't think Ross had anything bad to say. If he did then Im obviously wrong.

Even then, that happens at basically every school. Even the big ones. If guys aren't coming here simply because Darell Combs didn't like it, then that's a shame. You can't/won't please everybody. But as far as I know, he's literally the only former player to say anything bad about the team.

Ross wasn't happy on Twitter.

Que sera sera. I'm sure it had nothing to do with playing time...for either guy.

If players transferring with a bad taste in their mouths creates an ever-increasing negative rep, then basically every coach in the country has red flags. It happens.

(05-07-2014 11:19 AM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(05-06-2014 10:11 PM)gobaseline Wrote:  I will concede Bryant wasnt the next coming of Scottie Pippen. But his length with Riley allowed the match up to entice and then take away passing lanes. It gave pause to many who played against it and since offense is predicated on rhythm that disruption helped.

Look, EMU's MO was holding others to ridiculously low point outputs. Not outscoring others. Two key players from that equation are gone. 3 using your inclusion of Dylan. So I don't see the strength EMU flexed as getting better. Just the opposite. It's offense may be more productive, but yet to be proven. But in no way can it be imagined to make up for the additional points EMU will give up with a weakened D.

Or do you see it differently?

i think it's too early to tell. but if our defense does remain as effective, i think these things have to happen:

- Lee, who had flashes of good defense and worked hard on that end, becomes more consistent. he's a mercurial dude, but he's not lazy. he has the talent and drive to be a very good defender. the risk is that he never puts his talent together properly.
- Price (same height as Bryant) is a quicker, thinner version of Bryant and does a better job staying with players that dribble drive from the arc (Bryant had a hard time with that). he played sparingly at DePaul and sat out this season, so i don't know what to expect from him, but this would be the best case scenario.
- Ajayi is less foul-prone (insane fouls-per-minute numbers for him this year). He isn't as tall as Riley, but he's very athletic. he has the potential to be as disruptive in the middle as Riley, just in a different way.
- we find a good backup center

in my opinion, the Ajayi improvement is the least likely of these scenarios.

Price is listed as a 1 inch shorter than Bryant- and 38 pounds thinner. Which implies to me not strong enough for Power Forward. But I have not seen Price play. Does he have long arms?

(05-07-2014 07:07 PM)rayEMU Wrote:  Price is listed as a 1 inch shorter than Bryant- and 38 pounds thinner. Which implies to me not strong enough for Power Forward. But I have not seen Price play. Does he have long arms?

on defense, the 3 and 4 are interchangeable, so the question is, can he play the baseline in a 2-3 zone. as long as our center doesn't get caught out of position, a guy with Price's frame can succeed in that situation.

on offense, if we had set plays that rely on a traditional power forward, then i think his size would be an issue. but given our offensive system, i'd rather have a 3pt shooter out there than a traditional power forward.