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NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
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Check Yosef Offline
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NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 10:34 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yosef,

Yes, that is a great way to sum it up. It has always been that way and will continue with new rules. Our task is to make sure we all remain upper middle.

So the p5 keeps us a seat at the table and we give them them the numbers they need while we make the system look relatively fair in that there are members of the middle class in the leadership. Makes sense.


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04-24-2014 10:52 AM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
So basically it will boil down to P5- Full Benefits, G5- Partial Benefits, FCS- Limited to No Benefits.

The P5 schools do need the G5 for scheduling, but I have to wonder how long we will keep a place in the Playoff. I look at the bowls and how just about all of the matchups with P5 schools have been eliminated over the years as evidence that we may have completely separate post seasons at some point. Realistically speaking those schools operate at such a different level already that we won't really see a big change in on field performance. I do believe we will see an end to teams moving up to the P5 which of course likely means an end to expansion of G5 conferences. Except for 1 more in the Sun Belt.
04-24-2014 11:02 AM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 10:52 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 10:34 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yosef,

Yes, that is a great way to sum it up. It has always been that way and will continue with new rules. Our task is to make sure we all remain upper middle.

So the p5 keeps us a seat at the table and we give them them the numbers they need while we make the system look relatively fair in that there are members of the middle class in the leadership. Makes sense.


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Bingo. The Ole Miss type of programs get to go to a bowl with 6 or 7 wins and keep the booster and TV cash flowing. We get to occasionally knock off a P5, go to bowls and have better revenue and exposure than we could in FCS. Everybody wins!
04-24-2014 11:02 AM
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Post: #84
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 02:56 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Read it and weep or get mad as heck.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ubdivision

The NCAA expects to create the five-conference subdivision in August. Slive estimated that it will take until at least the first of the year to draw up the rules by which the schools will govern themselves. In the current model, presidents make decisions as members of the NCAA Board of Directors. The five conferences want more responsibility in the hands of their athletic administrators.
Interesting that no else on our board mentions this even thou the Slive speech was given at UMass.

The P5 can afford and should make it cost free for players and family members. However in fairness to the rest of us the Football limit should stay at 85 or the full boat free ride given to a small number say 85 or a bit less. It would never fly, but this way the P5 will not hoard all the talent.
04-24-2014 11:03 AM
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Crump1 Offline
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
I am curious to see how they sort out Title 9 and how this affects the conferences that don't play FBS football. You would think that a school like Missouri State would be sprinting to find a spot in FBS. If you play in one of those conferences and you choose not to pay stipends to athletes while the SBC is paying their basketball, baseball, volleyball player you will never get a recruit that holds offers from an SBC school again. I think the real disparity and change will come among those conferences who are not FBS when some offer stipends and some don't.
04-24-2014 11:08 AM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 11:03 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 02:56 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Read it and weep or get mad as heck.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ubdivision

The NCAA expects to create the five-conference subdivision in August. Slive estimated that it will take until at least the first of the year to draw up the rules by which the schools will govern themselves. In the current model, presidents make decisions as members of the NCAA Board of Directors. The five conferences want more responsibility in the hands of their athletic administrators.
Interesting that no else on our board mentions this even thou the Slive speech was given at UMass.

The P5 can afford and should make it cost free for players and family members. However in fairness to the rest of us the Football limit should stay at 85 or the full boat free ride given to a small number say 85 or a bit less. It would never fly, but this way the P5 will not hoard all the talent.

That's a big concern in regards to player pay outs. We now get some players based on playing time right away and potential for being a starter earlier and longer. If the pay outs are not even, how will that advantage we offer weigh against more $ in a college kid's pocket. Especially if that kid never had a dime to his name. How many will ride the bench and $ in. How many will make a decision on where they go to school based on that $ rather than the type of degree that they might be working towards. The pay outs must be even or the system is going to be doomed for the G5.
04-24-2014 12:03 PM
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Check Yosef Offline
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NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
You would think any FCS team that has some sort of chance to make it into our last spot would be trying really hard to get it.


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04-24-2014 12:04 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 12:04 PM)Check Yosef Wrote:  You would think any FCS team that has some sort of chance to make it into our last spot would be trying really hard to get it.


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Cant believe Liberty isn't doing whatever they can to get in.


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04-24-2014 12:11 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 12:11 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 12:04 PM)Check Yosef Wrote:  You would think any FCS team that has some sort of chance to make it into our last spot would be trying really hard to get it.


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Cant believe Liberty isn't doing whatever they can to get in.


05-stirthepot

Sorry, Couldn't resist 03-lmfao

Lawd.....

How much is the stipend supposed to be per semester $2000?
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 12:37 PM by JCGSU.)
04-24-2014 12:36 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:36 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:55 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is what many have been predicting for years and the primary reason many at App were so adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

Really A-AA doesn't even call it right because we'll still get access into the major Bowl games for a single champion, and could still play for a National Title if a team was to make the top 4. Especially with the leagues all following the same rules. What it does do is give the P5 the power they want to set up their own rules...without having FCS schools around to say no.

Schools moving up are essentially trading National Championships away for the exposure of an access bowl game.

Can see a day in the not so distant future the G5 schools have their own playoff.

That is exactly my point. You end up with two national playoffs for basically the same division. You end up having an FBS-A vs FBS claiming to be national champions. The only difference is FBS-A "pays" it players more. It has nothng to do with competition on the field. What happens if the G5 adopt the same rules as the P5?
04-24-2014 12:53 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 11:02 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 10:52 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 10:34 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yosef,

Yes, that is a great way to sum it up. It has always been that way and will continue with new rules. Our task is to make sure we all remain upper middle.

So the p5 keeps us a seat at the table and we give them them the numbers they need while we make the system look relatively fair in that there are members of the middle class in the leadership. Makes sense.


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Bingo. The Ole Miss type of programs get to go to a bowl with 6 or 7 wins and keep the booster and TV cash flowing. We get to occasionally knock off a P5, go to bowls and have better revenue and exposure than we could in FCS. Everybody wins!

Everybody loses.
04-24-2014 12:59 PM
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Check Yosef Offline
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NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 12:59 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 11:02 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 10:52 AM)Check Yosef Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 10:34 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Yosef,

Yes, that is a great way to sum it up. It has always been that way and will continue with new rules. Our task is to make sure we all remain upper middle.

So the p5 keeps us a seat at the table and we give them them the numbers they need while we make the system look relatively fair in that there are members of the middle class in the leadership. Makes sense.


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Bingo. The Ole Miss type of programs get to go to a bowl with 6 or 7 wins and keep the booster and TV cash flowing. We get to occasionally knock off a P5, go to bowls and have better revenue and exposure than we could in FCS. Everybody wins!

Everybody loses.

It seems like everybody stays the same, p5 holds their edge with less controversy about player treatment, g5 continues to be second to the p5 with occasional upsets and the FCS d2 d3 all end up staying irrelevant unless you went to a school that plays in one of those divisions.

Just like the upper class still holds most influence on things upper middles concerns are next to matter then the middle, lower middle, and lower class continue to live marginalized.

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(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 01:03 PM by Check Yosef.)
04-24-2014 01:01 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
If you can offer different levels to athletes it might help us out. For instance, if you have a 3 star player that everyone is after to some degree or another, he's likely not as high on the P5 board as he is on the G5 board. Now, if you don't have to be equal across the board, the P5 school is going to offer him less than they might a 4/5 star guy. However, the G5 school is going to try and offer him the full ride if he's good enough. It could mean all the difference.

The other interesting thing about this is cost of living is different in most places. I would think Georgia State would be able to offer more based on cost of attendance than some other schools in more traditional college towns just based on the cost of living increase being in Atlanta.

Interested to see how this pans out.
04-24-2014 01:08 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 01:08 PM)Tuscon Wrote:  If you can offer different levels to athletes it might help us out. For instance, if you have a 3 star player that everyone is after to some degree or another, he's likely not as high on the P5 board as he is on the G5 board. Now, if you don't have to be equal across the board, the P5 school is going to offer him less than they might a 4/5 star guy. However, the G5 school is going to try and offer him the full ride if he's good enough. It could mean all the difference.

The other interesting thing about this is cost of living is different in most places. I would think Georgia State would be able to offer more based on cost of attendance than some other schools in more traditional college towns just based on the cost of living increase being in Atlanta.

Interested to see how this pans out.

I am betting that Full cost of attendace meaning in August what it means today meaning what is the federal (FAFSA) full cost of attending your university.
04-24-2014 01:20 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 12:03 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 11:03 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 02:56 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Read it and weep or get mad as heck.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ubdivision

The NCAA expects to create the five-conference subdivision in August. Slive estimated that it will take until at least the first of the year to draw up the rules by which the schools will govern themselves. In the current model, presidents make decisions as members of the NCAA Board of Directors. The five conferences want more responsibility in the hands of their athletic administrators.
Interesting that no else on our board mentions this even thou the Slive speech was given at UMass.

The P5 can afford and should make it cost free for players and family members. However in fairness to the rest of us the Football limit should stay at 85 or the full boat free ride given to a small number say 85 or a bit less. It would never fly, but this way the P5 will not hoard all the talent.

That's a big concern in regards to player pay outs. We now get some players based on playing time right away and potential for being a starter earlier and longer. If the pay outs are not even, how will that advantage we offer weigh against more $ in a college kid's pocket. Especially if that kid never had a dime to his name. How many will ride the bench and $ in. How many will make a decision on where they go to school based on that $ rather than the type of degree that they might be working towards. The pay outs must be even or the system is going to be doomed for the G5.
It has to be in the ballpark and probably will be. This also ties in to the issue of schools nudging kids out the door so they can sign someone else. Schollies are year to year but you are not technically cut a kid loose for athletic performance. It has to be academic or discipline in theory but coaches let a kid know he is unlikely to ever play so he finds a better "fit".

If you are at a school that pays and transferring means no pay, you might just tell the coach that you are okay with the bench so you keep the check coming.

It may hamper our efforts at the G5 level to nudge a kid out the door but if less kids move at the P5 level then we have better recruits available. It also makes it easier to beat an FCS school or to get one of their guys to transfer to a G5.
04-24-2014 01:25 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 11:02 AM)JTApps1 Wrote:  So basically it will boil down to P5- Full Benefits, G5- Partial Benefits, FCS- Limited to No Benefits.

The P5 schools do need the G5 for scheduling, but I have to wonder how long we will keep a place in the Playoff. I look at the bowls and how just about all of the matchups with P5 schools have been eliminated over the years as evidence that we may have completely separate post seasons at some point. Realistically speaking those schools operate at such a different level already that we won't really see a big change in on field performance. I do believe we will see an end to teams moving up to the P5 which of course likely means an end to expansion of G5 conferences. Except for 1 more in the Sun Belt.

I doubt most G5 will be partial benefit. The new CFP money if passed on from the league to the schools will more than adequately fund matching of the P5 moves that have been proposed so far.
04-24-2014 01:38 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 11:03 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 02:56 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Read it and weep or get mad as heck.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/...ubdivision

The NCAA expects to create the five-conference subdivision in August. Slive estimated that it will take until at least the first of the year to draw up the rules by which the schools will govern themselves. In the current model, presidents make decisions as members of the NCAA Board of Directors. The five conferences want more responsibility in the hands of their athletic administrators.
Interesting that no else on our board mentions this even thou the Slive speech was given at UMass.

The P5 can afford and should make it cost free for players and family members. However in fairness to the rest of us the Football limit should stay at 85 or the full boat free ride given to a small number say 85 or a bit less. It would never fly, but this way the P5 will not hoard all the talent.

If you are AD at Ole Miss or Kansas or Washington State would you support a rule that allows Alabama, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, USC to each bump their scholarship numbers from 85 to 95?

It's hard enough to recruit against them and if they are skimming even more players off the top of the pool life gets worse for them.
04-24-2014 01:40 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
So how is the G5 schools going to match or even be able to give anything to players when we are members of Division 1 that voted against it?
Isn't that the reason that the P5 is forming their own sub-division, so that they can do whatever they want.
04-24-2014 01:42 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:36 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:55 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is what many have been predicting for years and the primary reason many at App were so adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

Really A-AA doesn't even call it right because we'll still get access into the major Bowl games for a single champion, and could still play for a National Title if a team was to make the top 4. Especially with the leagues all following the same rules. What it does do is give the P5 the power they want to set up their own rules...without having FCS schools around to say no.

Schools moving up are essentially trading National Championships away for the exposure of an access bowl game.

Can see a day in the not so distant future the G5 schools have their own playoff.

Why would you have an NIT style playoff?

You stick with the bowl system. You get a longer lead time to sell tickets. There is no worry of if we win this one can I afford the trip 10 or 14 days later, can I make arrangements to get off work?
04-24-2014 01:42 PM
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RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 01:42 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  So how is the G5 schools going to match or even be able to give anything to players when we are members of Division 1 that voted against it?
Isn't that the reason that the P5 is forming their own sub-division, so that they can do whatever they want.
No. We voted for it. It was the conferences below FBS that voted against it and that is a big part of this new autonomy.
04-24-2014 01:43 PM
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