Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)


Post Reply 
NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
Crump1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,380
Joined: Oct 2009
Reputation: 66
I Root For: stAte
Location:
Post: #61
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 07:50 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The g5 better get to it. The p5 are acting deliberately and not from any sense of camaraderie.
The interest they have in mind is their own. The splits only reason is to distance themselves further from competition and garner more money.
Did you skip right over what ArkStFan posted?
04-23-2014 09:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cleburneslim Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,280
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 8
I Root For: jax state
Location:
Post: #62
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
I read it. Should inform you whenever I disagree with something.
04-23-2014 09:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
TOPSTRAIGHT Online
1st String
*

Posts: 2,280
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 44
I Root For: WKU
Location: Glasgow,KY.
Post: #63
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
The question remains will all athletes receive a "stipend" or just football or something in between? I guess it is an unknown at this point.
04-23-2014 10:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,338
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #64
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 10:54 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  The question remains will all athletes receive a "stipend" or just football or something in between? I guess it is an unknown at this point.

The first proposal that was over-ridden was head-count sports only.
Men's basketball, FBS football, women's basketball, gymnastics, tennis, and women's volleyball.

That is part of what made the FCS objections so silly over cost, their maximum expense would have been $120,000 (60 athletes at $2000 each) and most would have spent $52,000 awarding 13 men's basketball stipends and matching that number in women's hoops or even $56,000 if giving all 15 women's basketball players a stipend.
04-23-2014 11:02 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,338
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #65
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 09:31 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 07:50 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The g5 better get to it. The p5 are acting deliberately and not from any sense of camaraderie.
The interest they have in mind is their own. The splits only reason is to distance themselves further from competition and garner more money.
Did you skip right over what ArkStFan posted?

Slim is resigned to Jax State not being invited so like the Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton and the former AD at Georgia Southern he awaits the day when the G5 are booted back to their rightful place in FCS. Of course Fullerton actually convinced the Management Council once to toughen FBS requirements to achieve his dream but it got tabled on second reading and we still await the first movement of an FBS to FCS since 1982.
04-23-2014 11:05 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bamaEagle Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,211
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 10
I Root For: GS Eagles
Location:
Post: #66
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
I really don't buy a whole lot into the players needing a stipend. The athletes that have their school payed for that come from a less fortunate situation will receive federal aide in the form of a check that they can take strait to the bank. The players that have their school payed for and don't qualify for federal aid should be able to get a little change from their guardians to buy gas, clothes, eat at restaurant, etc. Is the NCAA a broken system, yes. Does it need to start paying players, no.
04-23-2014 11:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoBigRed26 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,105
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 22
I Root For: stAte
Location: Little Rock, AR
Post: #67
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 11:16 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  I really don't buy a whole lot into the players needing a stipend. The athletes that have their school payed for that come from a less fortunate situation will receive federal aide in the form of a check that they can take strait to the bank. The players that have their school payed for and don't qualify for federal aid should be able to get a little change from their guardians to buy gas, clothes, eat at restaurant, etc. Is the NCAA a broken system, yes. Does it need to start paying players, no.

But Shabazz Napier goes to bed starving! He needs money for late night munchies.
04-23-2014 11:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,338
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #68
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 11:16 PM)bamaEagle Wrote:  I really don't buy a whole lot into the players needing a stipend. The athletes that have their school payed for that come from a less fortunate situation will receive federal aide in the form of a check that they can take strait to the bank. The players that have their school payed for and don't qualify for federal aid should be able to get a little change from their guardians to buy gas, clothes, eat at restaurant, etc. Is the NCAA a broken system, yes. Does it need to start paying players, no.

It's not that expensive for the schools and once adopted ends the sympathetic stories of kids having to take loans.
04-24-2014 12:17 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
LUalumfromnc Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 68
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Liberty and UNC
Location: North Cakalachy
Post: #69
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Would the new 5 conference subdivision be FBS-AA or FCS-AA? I would prefer Liberty getting into the Sun Belt than this.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 05:54 AM by LUalumfromnc.)
04-24-2014 05:47 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Gemofthehills Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 426
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation: 0
I Root For: JSU
Location:
Post: #70
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 11:05 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 09:31 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 07:50 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The g5 better get to it. The p5 are acting deliberately and not from any sense of camaraderie.
The interest they have in mind is their own. The splits only reason is to distance themselves further from competition and garner more money.
Did you skip right over what ArkStFan posted?

Slim is resigned to Jax State not being invited so like the Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton and the former AD at Georgia Southern he awaits the day when the G5 are booted back to their rightful place in FCS. Of course Fullerton actually convinced the Management Council once to toughen FBS requirements to achieve his dream but it got tabled on second reading and we still await the first movement of an FBS to FCS since 1982.

The FBS teams won't be moving down if anything some FCS conferences/teams maybe allowed to move up to what ever the new DII will be called.
04-24-2014 05:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
cleburneslim Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,280
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 8
I Root For: jax state
Location:
Post: #71
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Im not resigned to anything. I am thinking we have a very good shot at #12.
04-24-2014 06:37 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BRtransplant Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,927
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 27
I Root For: La Tech
Location:
Post: #72
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
What is needed is a new set of rules that G-5 conferences adopt. How about we start with these:
1) any transfer from a P-5 conference member is immediately eligible to play
2) minimum payout of $1.5M per game for any contracts that don't include a return game.
04-24-2014 07:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Crump1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,380
Joined: Oct 2009
Reputation: 66
I Root For: stAte
Location:
Post: #73
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 09:34 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  I read it. Should inform you whenever I disagree with something.
That is a pretty good idea. It is hard to believe you read that and still believe what you seem to believe.
04-24-2014 08:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Attackcoog Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 24,343
Joined: Oct 2011
Reputation: 939
I Root For: Houston
Location:
Post: #74
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 05:53 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 11:05 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 09:31 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 07:50 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The g5 better get to it. The p5 are acting deliberately and not from any sense of camaraderie.
The interest they have in mind is their own. The splits only reason is to distance themselves further from competition and garner more money.
Did you skip right over what ArkStFan posted?

Slim is resigned to Jax State not being invited so like the Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton and the former AD at Georgia Southern he awaits the day when the G5 are booted back to their rightful place in FCS. Of course Fullerton actually convinced the Management Council once to toughen FBS requirements to achieve his dream but it got tabled on second reading and we still await the first movement of an FBS to FCS since 1982.

The FBS teams won't be moving down if anything some FCS conferences/teams maybe allowed to move up to what ever the new DII will be called.

There is no new division. In essence, it's really nothing more than new form of weighted voting in certain areas of D1 governance. Weighted voting has been around for some time.
(This post was last modified: 04-24-2014 09:12 AM by Attackcoog.)
04-24-2014 09:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JTApps1 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 722
Joined: Feb 2011
Reputation: 32
I Root For: App State
Location:
Post: #75
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:57 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 04:52 PM)JSUFan Wrote:  Bottom line. Is it going to cost quite a bit more for Sun Belt schools to go by the P5 rules or drop to FCS?

Cost? Well...FCS is certainly cheaper, however the loss of revenue and exposure from making such a decision would be so much that it would destroy several football programs.

Hence why it will never happen.

All of our studies (starting in the 90's) before moving up showed that we would lose less money in I-A/FBS than we would in I-AA/FCS, and this was before the $1Mil from the playoff was announced. There may be a few schools that don't fit that model, but there won't be a mass exodus to FCS. That division is looking to go even "smaller" by lowering the expenses. Many feel they will drop to 55 scholarships or less before long.
04-24-2014 09:40 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 21,338
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 610
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #76
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-24-2014 09:08 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-24-2014 05:53 AM)Gemofthehills Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 11:05 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 09:31 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 07:50 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  The g5 better get to it. The p5 are acting deliberately and not from any sense of camaraderie.
The interest they have in mind is their own. The splits only reason is to distance themselves further from competition and garner more money.
Did you skip right over what ArkStFan posted?

Slim is resigned to Jax State not being invited so like the Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton and the former AD at Georgia Southern he awaits the day when the G5 are booted back to their rightful place in FCS. Of course Fullerton actually convinced the Management Council once to toughen FBS requirements to achieve his dream but it got tabled on second reading and we still await the first movement of an FBS to FCS since 1982.

The FBS teams won't be moving down if anything some FCS conferences/teams maybe allowed to move up to what ever the new DII will be called.

There is no new division. In essence, it's really nothing more than new form of weighted voting in certain areas of D1 governance. Weighted voting has been around for some time.

Exactly. All that is happening is the P5 and G5 are putting on even more weight.
04-24-2014 09:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Liberty Fan Offline
Under The Radar
*

Posts: 677
Joined: Aug 2011
Reputation: 38
I Root For: Gillville
Location:
Post: #77
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
04-24-2014 10:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Crump1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,380
Joined: Oct 2009
Reputation: 66
I Root For: stAte
Location:
Post: #78
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
FBS will still be FBS. We will still compete for the same access and for the same recruits we have been cometing for in the past. This changes how the P5 will operate and it will all be optional for the G5. We will all find ways to pay a competitive stipend and to adjust to new rules on transfers, agents, etc. Our stipends don't have to be the same as the P5 schools but they have to be close enough to make a recruit consider whether he wants to ride the pine for a few more dollars or get PT for a few less.

I presume the G5 will follow with their own rulemaking subdivision so we can amend transfer rules and allow the same "perks" on a conference by conference basis.

This is going to take a lot of time to sort out and could really impact the sports outside of football the most if we are paying stipends to our athletes and the FCS and basketball conferences do not pay.

Make no mistake, if the 65 wanted to truly split they would have done it years ago but the current system of playing guarantee games and padding the win column works so well that this is not going to happen. You can't create the illusion of 65 "elite" programs if half of them have losing records and pissed off boosters most years.

Under our current TV deal and without playoff money, the leadership at stAte decided a few years ago to spend about $1m more a year on football coaching salaries. They also have found ways to dramatically improve facilities under the current revenue system. I have no doubt at all that they will find a way to pay stipends and anything else required to stay one step behind the P5 and one step ahead of FCS under the new revenue system and rules that are coming.
04-24-2014 10:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Check Yosef Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,759
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 20
I Root For: App State
Location:
Post: #79
NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 06:37 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:28 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  This will allow them to expand the benefits to players just enough to keep the wolves at bay. There won't be a "split" except in governance and there will be a divide in the amount of benefits provided. Not a big deal to me because those schools already have an advantage over the rest of us in recruiting. We will provide more benefits to athletes as well an will continue to be more attractive than playing FCS. Some kids will still choose strong G5 programs over the bottom of the P5 schools. The balance of power is not going to shift. We will still get our access to one playoff spot and to the bowls.

I am interested in seeing if they guarantee scholarships for 4 years and if they alter the transfer rules. Locking players in for 4 years would help us in the SBC.

Media doesn't understand the proposal, very damn few people tasked to cover business, law or sports truly understand them. Your typical sports media person is someone who has an interest in writing or RTV and likes watching sports. Being able to report what happened in a game or asking a tough question like why did you use that timeout or why were you in prevent there is not a skill set that equips you for:
1. Reading and understanding the practical effects of legislation
2 Understanding how college athletics are actually financed.
3. Understanding how college presidents and athletic directors and commissioners work with one another.
4. Having institutional knowledge of past legislative proposals.

Here is the background.

The NCAA is being sued in a number of cases and the FBS members have been subpoenaed in those cases and that information has the potential of forming the basis of added suits against FBS schools.

These suits prompted a series of influential media reports (most notably NY Times) questioning how student-athletes are treated.

To address those issues, the FBS conferences prodded by the NCAA President voted unanimously (with some other leagues) for a series of reforms (recruiting, stipend, guaranteed scholarships, other aid).

As is often common when the NCAA acts nimbly, big changes send illogical shockwaves throughout the membership community and generates a wave of opposition that might not always be rationally thought out.

A number of schools began filing objections to those reforms, most notably the stipend and the general basis was either I can't afford it or That gives someone else a competitive advantage (some schools most notably Wake Forest objected because Title IX consequences had not been fully explored and they raise some serious questions).

The problem with the common objections is they fail to recognize reality.

The extra spending is optional, so no school was compelled to participate or they could participate in a limited manner. Those who do not participate aren't totally out of luck. Players with the greatest financial need can receive Federal grants that put them in a similar financial position or they can turn to student loans which isn't as good of a deal.

As to competitive advantage. The reality is the FBS leagues were going to embrace the changes as would leagues like the Big East, A10, and probably Mo Valley and WCC and maybe Horizon. The other 16 or so leagues might not be able to participate because of finances but as a general rule they don't win the recruiting battles against those 12 to 15 leagues as it stands today. Competitive advantage concerns don't come into play unless the Big West participates and Big Sky doesn't or CAA participates and Southern or OVC or Metro Atlantic or Northeast, or America East doesn't.

The over-ride created justified outrage. Schools who don't have someone trying to put their neck in a noose killed legislation that was designed to create a measure of protection for the top schools against those suits and bad publicity.

The P5 have made the decision that they are not going to be put in that situation again.

They are seeking the ability to adopt some changes not in the line-up of Division I or FBS but in benefits and regulation that they can adopt by their own vote. Some matters anyone who wishes to follow can do so simply by altering their league bylaws others will require Division consent.

But they did something else as well.

They made the decision that on broader issues that aren't covered by their ability to govern themselves they would seek to change the voting structure. The structure they have requested makes the vote of a P5 conference worth more than the vote of any other conference and makes the vote of the G5 worth more than vote of any other conference that isn't FBS. In theory, if the P5 and G5 agree those ten conferences combined have the power to make all the rules for Division I.

The irresponsible and hysterical reporting of this claims this is it. THE SPLIT WE'VE BEEN REPORTING SINCE THE 1950's IS ARRIVING.

The reality is far different. The P5 aren't breaking away. They are creating a special voting group but they will continue to compete in the NCAA Tournament and compete against the G5 on the field and for votes in the same polls and compete for the CFP slots against them.

If they were looking to split how stupid are they creating a structure where the Sun Belt members can sit down and vote to follow the same rules? How stupid is it to structure Division I governance in such a way that the P5 cannot alone determine the policies of the Division but rather need to form coalitions and if they need to form coalitions why would they hand enhanced voting power to the G5 if the plan were to try to run the G5 off? They handed the G5 enhanced voting because the G5 despite having fewer resources philosophically aligns with the P5 on most everything making them a more reliable coalition partner than the Atlantic Sun or Big Sky.

So the p5 is the upper class and the g5 is the middle upper class? In social political terms?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
04-24-2014 10:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Crump1 Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,380
Joined: Oct 2009
Reputation: 66
I Root For: stAte
Location:
Post: #80
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Yosef,

Yes, that is a great way to sum it up. It has always been that way and will continue with new rules. Our task is to make sure we all remain upper middle.
04-24-2014 10:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.