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NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #21
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
This is why so many at App were adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2014 03:54 PM by AppManDG.)
04-23-2014 03:52 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is what many have been predicting for years and the primary reason many at App were so adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

Really A-AA doesn't even call it right because we'll still get access into the major Bowl games for a single champion, and could still play for a National Title if a team was to make the top 4. Especially with the leagues all following the same rules. What it does do is give the P5 the power they want to set up their own rules...without having FCS schools around to say no.

Schools moving up are essentially trading National Championships away for the exposure of an access bowl game.
(This post was last modified: 04-23-2014 03:56 PM by chiefsfan.)
04-23-2014 03:55 PM
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TOPSTRAIGHT Offline
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Post: #23
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Does this cost of attendance "stipend $$" apply only to football? Basketball-all sports?
04-23-2014 03:58 PM
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Gemofthehills Offline
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Post: #24
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
No schools will drop down voluntarily after seeing the difficulty FCS teams have receiving an invite.
04-23-2014 03:59 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
The NCAA has been stopping conferences from moving to the FBS for years.
CAA requested it from the NCAA but was turned down. No reason to think the P-5
conferences will invite any other conferences.

If the P-5 conferences had wanted any of the G-5 conferences they could have talked with
them before now. From what he is saying it sounds like a done deal. Wondering how this
new subdivision will affect the agreement with money distribution.
Are they forming a new subdivision so they can negate what they
agreed to previously. Will the G-5 conferences
still get it or not. Former BCS conferences were already getting 71.5% of the total money,
is this a way for them to get all of it.

Would love to have blind optimism that things would work out, but no real reason to form
a new subdivision if you are going to keep a lot of things the same way.
04-23-2014 04:01 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:01 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The NCAA has been stopping conferences from moving to the FBS for years.
CAA requested it from the NCAA but was turned down. No reason to think the P-5
conferences will invite any other conferences.

If the P-5 conferences had wanted any of the G-5 conferences they could have talked with
them before now. From what he is saying it sounds like a done deal. Wondering how this
new subdivision will affect the agreement with money distribution.
Are they forming a new subdivision so they can negate what they
agreed to previously. Will the G-5 conferences
still get it or not. Former BCS conferences were already getting 71.5% of the total money,
is this a way for them to get all of it.

Would love to have blind optimism that things would work out, but no real reason to form
a new subdivision if you are going to keep a lot of things the same way.

You're really massively overblowing this issue. There have been several around ASU who have been asked about it, and no one is concerned.

Its ESPN, a P5 centric organization getting their own ideas from a quote out of Mike Slive.
04-23-2014 04:04 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
When half of a population gets to make the rules the other half typically will get screwed.
04-23-2014 04:07 PM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 04:01 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The NCAA has been stopping conferences from moving to the FBS for years.
CAA requested it from the NCAA but was turned down. No reason to think the P-5
conferences will invite any other conferences.

If the P-5 conferences had wanted any of the G-5 conferences they could have talked with
them before now. From what he is saying it sounds like a done deal. Wondering how this
new subdivision will affect the agreement with money distribution.
Are they forming a new subdivision so they can negate what they
agreed to previously. Will the G-5 conferences
still get it or not. Former BCS conferences were already getting 71.5% of the total money,
is this a way for them to get all of it.

Would love to have blind optimism that things would work out, but no real reason to form
a new subdivision if you are going to keep a lot of things the same way.

You're really massively overblowing this issue. There have been several around ASU who have been asked about it, and no one is concerned.

Its ESPN, a P5 centric organization getting their own ideas from a quote out of Mike Slive.

Well, if you have talked to a guy that talked to a guy, then guess everything is copacetic. Never mind. The P-5 conferences forming their own subdivision is nothing to be concerned about then. Back to sleep.
04-23-2014 04:22 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #29
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:22 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 04:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 04:01 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The NCAA has been stopping conferences from moving to the FBS for years.
CAA requested it from the NCAA but was turned down. No reason to think the P-5
conferences will invite any other conferences.

If the P-5 conferences had wanted any of the G-5 conferences they could have talked with
them before now. From what he is saying it sounds like a done deal. Wondering how this
new subdivision will affect the agreement with money distribution.
Are they forming a new subdivision so they can negate what they
agreed to previously. Will the G-5 conferences
still get it or not. Former BCS conferences were already getting 71.5% of the total money,
is this a way for them to get all of it.

Would love to have blind optimism that things would work out, but no real reason to form
a new subdivision if you are going to keep a lot of things the same way.

You're really massively overblowing this issue. There have been several around ASU who have been asked about it, and no one is concerned.

Its ESPN, a P5 centric organization getting their own ideas from a quote out of Mike Slive.

Well, if you have talked to a guy that talked to a guy, then guess everything is copacetic. Never mind. The P-5 conferences forming their own subdivision is nothing to be concerned about then. Back to sleep.

I'm just sharing what I hear, and why you don't see G5 schools throwing a fit. Do you honestly think the University of Houston would allow separation completely without a lawsuit?
04-23-2014 04:24 PM
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TheRevSWT Offline
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Post: #30
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 03:21 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:19 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:15 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  You guys didn't actually read this right.

Here is sort of what the argument is. The 5 P5 conferences form a new Subdivision in August. Nothing changes competition wise, but they work to create the rules for that new Sub-Division. In January, the rules are announced, and G5 conferences are given the option of moving up to join this new Sub-division, or dropping to FCS. At which point all of the others will move up and join. The way things work is, they cant create an exclusive division, but they can create a new one and set up the rules for it, at which point other leagues will move up or move down. They cant force anyone down without a lawsuit.

That's the way I've been told it will work at least.

So this is not creating FBS-A and FBS-AA?


Not really. Its just the same division, with new rules.

Same division, with new rules? Rules that all have to abide by to compete at FBS level?

If not, then you truly have two groups with different rules playing for the same thing. That isn't a recipe for disaster. No way.
04-23-2014 04:34 PM
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AppManDG Offline
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Post: #31
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 03:55 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is what many have been predicting for years and the primary reason many at App were so adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

Really A-AA doesn't even call it right because we'll still get access into the major Bowl games for a single champion, and could still play for a National Title if a team was to make the top 4. Especially with the leagues all following the same rules. What it does do is give the P5 the power they want to set up their own rules...without having FCS schools around to say no.

Schools moving up are essentially trading National Championships away for the exposure of an access bowl game.

Can see a day in the not so distant future the G5 schools have their own playoff.
04-23-2014 04:36 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #32
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is why so many at App were adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

I agree with the first bolded part. This is why all G-5 programs should set the price for games with any of us at a minimum 2Million IF we are going to play that game with out a return trip game. These funds are going to be needed for funding the extra expenses to try and keep up as best we can. Games with P5 programs who choose to travel to the G-5 will help raise our programs by higher home attendances etc.
Either way, we should benefit if we can get the going rate up to 2Million.

The second part I do not agree with. I think the CFP is going to make MORE money. I HOPE I'm right on that, because that is the one big thing that might help to speed up the expansion of it. We need more access to the CFP. I want to see it at 16 but at least 8. I believe there is a lot of money to be made on such a playoff.
04-23-2014 04:37 PM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
http://www.dnj.com/article/20140421/BLUE...open-forum

The SBC has already come out in favor of a stipend. It will get interesting if they try to use a cost of attendance based on the varying cost of living from city to city as that will harm a lot of traditional football powerhouses. I suspect it will end up being a set amount across the board.

As for whether they will only provide these benefits to football? You shouldn't have to have a law degree to see where that would end up. There is no way they can enhance the compensation for football players only. My concern is how doe this affect the schools that don't play football? Do only our football playing schools provide a stipend to all athletes along with the other benefits? That will help the budgets of the non-football but it will kill them in recruiting. How does a Wichita State compete with South Alabama if they are not paying a stipend and USA does?

It isn't as easy as it is being portrayed but those five conference ALREADY get the vast share of the revenue and have nicer toys than the rest of us. That isn't going to change. As long as we still play those schools, have access to the postseason and have the "FBS" label we will all still be better off than our FCS counterparts. It will be up to us to find ways to enhance our revenue outisde of what the big conferences share.
04-23-2014 04:38 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #34
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:36 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:55 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  This is what many have been predicting for years and the primary reason many at App were so adamant about moving out of FCS. This will essentially create a third D-I division. The only way to view this is FBS-A and AA. I don't know of any rational App State supporter, favoring the move to FBS, ever envisioned us on the same level as those major schools. Most are happy to be associated with peer schools playing at a higher level than FCS. Our goal was to not be stuck in the SmallCon and FCS when the hammer dropped.

Nowhere does he remotely hint schools outside the P5 conferences will be forced into FCS. A little common sense goes a long way here folks. Does anyone think for a second these guys want to slug it out between themselves 12 times per season, plus a championship game, plus a playoff and bowls?

I honestly believe this is also the first step of G5 conference realignment along regional lines. The FBS playoff is going to take a lot of TV money out of the system. Once those dollars begin to dry up schools will have no other option than to realign. The money simply won't be there for the extensive travel conference members have to live with today.

Really A-AA doesn't even call it right because we'll still get access into the major Bowl games for a single champion, and could still play for a National Title if a team was to make the top 4. Especially with the leagues all following the same rules. What it does do is give the P5 the power they want to set up their own rules...without having FCS schools around to say no.

Schools moving up are essentially trading National Championships away for the exposure of an access bowl game.

Can see a day in the not so distant future the G5 schools have their own playoff.

You know, if they could grant the winner of that the 1 access spot into a true playoff spot of their playoff - it could work out for us!
04-23-2014 04:39 PM
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Crump1 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:34 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:21 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:19 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 03:15 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  You guys didn't actually read this right.

Here is sort of what the argument is. The 5 P5 conferences form a new Subdivision in August. Nothing changes competition wise, but they work to create the rules for that new Sub-Division. In January, the rules are announced, and G5 conferences are given the option of moving up to join this new Sub-division, or dropping to FCS. At which point all of the others will move up and join. The way things work is, they cant create an exclusive division, but they can create a new one and set up the rules for it, at which point other leagues will move up or move down. They cant force anyone down without a lawsuit.

That's the way I've been told it will work at least.

So this is not creating FBS-A and FBS-AA?


Not really. Its just the same division, with new rules.

Same division, with new rules? Rules that all have to abide by to compete at FBS level?

If not, then you truly have two groups with different rules playing for the same thing. That isn't a recipe for disaster. No way.
We already have that.
04-23-2014 04:40 PM
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JSUFan Offline
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Post: #36
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
Bottom line. Is it going to cost quite a bit more for Sun Belt schools to go by the P5 rules or drop to FCS?
04-23-2014 04:52 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #37
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:52 PM)JSUFan Wrote:  Bottom line. Is it going to cost quite a bit more for Sun Belt schools to go by the P5 rules or drop to FCS?

Cost? Well...FCS is certainly cheaper, however the loss of revenue and exposure from making such a decision would be so much that it would destroy several football programs.

Hence why it will never happen.
04-23-2014 04:57 PM
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JCGSU Offline
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Post: #38
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:38 PM)Crump1 Wrote:  http://www.dnj.com/article/20140421/BLUE...open-forum

The SBC has already come out in favor of a stipend. It will get interesting if they try to use a cost of attendance based on the varying cost of living from city to city as that will harm a lot of traditional football powerhouses. I suspect it will end up being a set amount across the board.

As for whether they will only provide these benefits to football? You shouldn't have to have a law degree to see where that would end up. There is no way they can enhance the compensation for football players only. My concern is how doe this affect the schools that don't play football? Do only our football playing schools provide a stipend to all athletes along with the other benefits? That will help the budgets of the non-football but it will kill them in recruiting. How does a Wichita State compete with South Alabama if they are not paying a stipend and USA does?

It isn't as easy as it is being portrayed but those five conference ALREADY get the vast share of the revenue and have nicer toys than the rest of us. That isn't going to change. As long as we still play those schools, have access to the postseason and have the "FBS" label we will all still be better off than our FCS counterparts. It will be up to us to find ways to enhance our revenue outisde of what the big conferences share.

This, I don't think the additional revenue needed to meet those standards are earth shattering for any current G5. Everything is relative if the price of business goes you will probably see minor increases in tickets, parking, booster levels, concessions, student fees, etc etc that are spread out over thousands of people and a big push for much higher pay days from the P5's and cut of the playoff pie. I really think they are just floating this and seeing what everyone likes and does not like. As long as they do not increase scholarship limits the big boys can only take so much talent there is still gonna be a ton left for what ever the G-5's division will be called. Just so thankful we jumped up a level before this happened.
04-23-2014 04:58 PM
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Post: #39
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:57 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-23-2014 04:52 PM)JSUFan Wrote:  Bottom line. Is it going to cost quite a bit more for Sun Belt schools to go by the P5 rules or drop to FCS?

Cost? Well...FCS is certainly cheaper, however the loss of revenue and exposure from making such a decision would be so much that it would destroy several football programs.

Hence why it will never happen.

I believe Rice did a study a while back and came to the conclusion that even though they were struggling at the DIV 1-A level it would be worse if they dropped back down due to the estimated lost revenue.
04-23-2014 05:00 PM
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The4thOption Offline
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Post: #40
RE: NCAA to have New 5 Conference Subdivision in August
(04-23-2014 04:52 PM)JSUFan Wrote:  Bottom line. Is it going to cost quite a bit more for Sun Belt schools to go by the P5 rules or drop to FCS?

Some of the rules wont cost anything (access to NFL scouts, etc).

Paying the stipends/living expenses will have to be weighted against loss of ALL TV revenue, the 1Million a year from the CFP, Split of $ if we earn best G-5 conference again, loss of revenue from lower attendances, loss of revenue from less $ or NO $ that comes from playing P5 Programs. Also to consider is the "advertising" value of begin considered in the top level of play. Also to consider is the impact not playing football at the highest level can have on recruitment of athletes in other sports - which if effected, COULD prevent those sports - especially basketball - from reaching revenue producing levels in that post season.

Lots to think about, hard to conceive willfully moving to the FCS.
04-23-2014 05:01 PM
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